From arzala at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 00:08:07 2005
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:38:07 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] What are ? and :
In-Reply-To: <33DFD788D44E404CB92B90176DEC061A6DAFD0@NYCPDMSXMB06.ad.tiaa-cref.org>
References: <33DFD788D44E404CB92B90176DEC061A6DAFD0@NYCPDMSXMB06.ad.tiaa-cref.org>
Message-ID: <433E0BA7.1020106@gmail.com>

I like this stuff as well. It is very useful when editing some data that 
comes from DB, and while updating it when some conditions fails, values 
came from DB and values changed by users both can be checked and 
retained in form. Like below.

$phoneVal=isset($_POST['phone']) ? $_POST['phone'] : $someRow->phone;

However there are many use of these operators. One can use in their 
preferred way as he/she likes.

Thanks,

Anirudh Zala

----------------------------------------------------------------
Anirudh Zala (Production Manager),    ASPL, 814-815, Star Plaza,
Ph: +91 281 245 1894                  Phhulchhab Square,
anirudh at aspl.in                       Rajkot 360001, Gujarat
http://www.aspl.in                    INDIA
----------------------------------------------------------------



Nunez, Eddy wrote:

>Yeah no kidding .. I love this stuff!!
>I've used them in sequence to test and update a conditional variable...
>some actual code I wrie to set a string based on various database variables..
>
>        $approval_status = ( $adt=$res[APPROVED] ) ? "Approved on $adt" : 'Unapproved' ;
>        $approval_status = ( in_array($suffix,array('AN','SP')) ) ? 'N/A' : $approval_status ;
>        $approval_status = ( $cdt=$res[COMPLETED] ) ? "Closed on $cdt" : $approval_status ;
>        $approval_status = ( $cdt=$res[CANCELED] ) ? "Canceled on $cdt" : $approval_status ;
>
>I realized in the above the sequence of the instructions is critical for the correct
>result because the following statements will use the previous results on false condition.
>
>FYI: texts refer to it as Trinary operator because it takes 3 operands, instead of
>the more common 2 ops.
>
>Cool stuff!
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
>[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Rahmin Pavlovic
>Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:47 PM
>To: NYPHP Talk; Aaron Fischer
>Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] What are ? and :
>
>
>
>On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:36 , Aaron Fischer <agfische at email.smith.edu> sent:
>
>  
>
>>I am in the process of reading through the PHundamentals article titled 
>>"Functions for Storing Data Submitted From a Form and Displaying Data 
>>    
>>
>>from a Database" and have run into two symbols that I am unclear about 
>  
>
>>in the fix_magic_quotes function.
>>http://www.nyphp.org/phundamentals/storingretrieving.php
>>
>>The symbols in question are ? and :
>>
>>The lines where they are used:
>>
>>1)  $argv = isset($_SERVER['argv']) ? $_SERVER['argv'] : NULL;
>>
>>    
>>
>
>It's a conditional operator, and it's basically a simple if/else assignment.  In
>this case, it's checking to see if there are any arguments -- if so, they get
>assigned to $argv, if not, $argv is NULL.
>
>A lot of people don't like conditional operators, but I use them a lot.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
>**************************************************************
>This message, including any attachments, contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies.  You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.
>TIAA-CREF
>**************************************************************
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>  
>
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From list at harveyk.com  Sat Oct  1 09:27:23 2005
From: list at harveyk.com (harvey)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:27:23 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Date switching back and forth
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20051001092221.033759c0@usa.com>

How is this possible? I have a site hosted at Yahoo and am using the 
following code to display the date/time at the top of the page. Works 
fine, except-- every once in a while, the date is one full day off. 
For example, on the 28th of this month at about 10pm, the page said 
it was the 29th at 10pm. Later on, it was fine and said the right 
date. Yahoo, of course, says it's not them, but what else could it 
be? Thanks in advance.

$hourdiff = "-4";
$timeadjust = ($hourdiff * 60 * 60);
echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y") . "<br>" . date("g:i:s a", 
time() + $timeadjust) . "&nbsp;NYC";



From hendler at simmons.edu  Sat Oct  1 09:39:39 2005
From: hendler at simmons.edu (Jonathan)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:39:39 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Date switching back and forth
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20051001092221.033759c0@usa.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20051001092221.033759c0@usa.com>
Message-ID: <433E919B.5040409@simmons.edu>

There is an error in your code.
You will always have the correctly adjusted hour because of

 date("g:i:s a", 
time() + $timeadjust) 


But your date will be wrong for 4 hours every day because of

echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y")


You need to add your time adjust to each of those dates.
Try
$adjusted_time = time() + $timeadjust;

echo date("l",$adjusted_time) . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y",$adjusted_time);
date("g:i:s a", $adjusted_time) ; 



harvey wrote:

>How is this possible? I have a site hosted at Yahoo and am using the 
>following code to display the date/time at the top of the page. Works 
>fine, except-- every once in a while, the date is one full day off. 
>For example, on the 28th of this month at about 10pm, the page said 
>it was the 29th at 10pm. Later on, it was fine and said the right 
>date. Yahoo, of course, says it's not them, but what else could it 
>be? Thanks in advance.
>
>$hourdiff = "-4";
>$timeadjust = ($hourdiff * 60 * 60);
>echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y") . "<br>" . date("g:i:s a", 
>time() + $timeadjust) . "&nbsp;NYC";
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>  
>



From list at harveyk.com  Sat Oct  1 09:57:13 2005
From: list at harveyk.com (harvey)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:57:13 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Date switching back and forth
In-Reply-To: <433E919B.5040409@simmons.edu>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20051001092221.033759c0@usa.com>
	<433E919B.5040409@simmons.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20051001095537.02ea71b0@harveyk.com>

Of course, not sure why I didn't see that.
Thanks a lot!


At 09:39 AM 10/1/2005, Jonathan wrote:

>There is an error in your code.
>You will always have the correctly adjusted hour because of
>
>  date("g:i:s a",
>time() + $timeadjust)
>
>
>But your date will be wrong for 4 hours every day because of
>
>echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y")
>
>
>You need to add your time adjust to each of those dates.
>Try
>$adjusted_time = time() + $timeadjust;
>
>echo date("l",$adjusted_time) . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y",$adjusted_time);
>date("g:i:s a", $adjusted_time) ;
>
>
>
>harvey wrote:
>
> >How is this possible? I have a site hosted at Yahoo and am using the
> >following code to display the date/time at the top of the page. Works
> >fine, except-- every once in a while, the date is one full day off.
> >For example, on the 28th of this month at about 10pm, the page said
> >it was the 29th at 10pm. Later on, it was fine and said the right
> >date. Yahoo, of course, says it's not them, but what else could it
> >be? Thanks in advance.
> >
> >$hourdiff = "-4";
> >$timeadjust = ($hourdiff * 60 * 60);
> >echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y") . "<br>" . date("g:i:s a",
> >time() + $timeadjust) . "&nbsp;NYC";
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> >AMP Technology
> >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >http://www.nyphp.org
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org



From gatzby3jr at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 12:09:04 2005
From: gatzby3jr at gmail.com (Brian O'Connor)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 12:09:04 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Date switching back and forth
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20051001095537.02ea71b0@harveyk.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20051001092221.033759c0@usa.com>
	<433E919B.5040409@simmons.edu>
	<6.2.5.6.2.20051001095537.02ea71b0@harveyk.com>
Message-ID: <29da5d150510010909y506861a4k5fd1184cd8969e3c@mail.gmail.com>

I prefer to use mktime for converting dates, but I guess that's just a
preference.

$dateConversion = date('Y-m-d', mktime(date('H')-4, date('i'), date('s'),
date('m'), date('d'), date('Y')));

On 10/1/05, harvey <list at harveyk.com> wrote:
>
> Of course, not sure why I didn't see that.
> Thanks a lot!
>
>
> At 09:39 AM 10/1/2005, Jonathan wrote:
>
> >There is an error in your code.
> >You will always have the correctly adjusted hour because of
> >
> > date("g:i:s a",
> >time() + $timeadjust)
> >
> >
> >But your date will be wrong for 4 hours every day because of
> >
> >echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y")
> >
> >
> >You need to add your time adjust to each of those dates.
> >Try
> >$adjusted_time = time() + $timeadjust;
> >
> >echo date("l",$adjusted_time) . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y",$adjusted_time);
> >date("g:i:s a", $adjusted_time) ;
> >
> >
> >
> >harvey wrote:
> >
> > >How is this possible? I have a site hosted at Yahoo and am using the
> > >following code to display the date/time at the top of the page. Works
> > >fine, except-- every once in a while, the date is one full day off.
> > >For example, on the 28th of this month at about 10pm, the page said
> > >it was the 29th at 10pm. Later on, it was fine and said the right
> > >date. Yahoo, of course, says it's not them, but what else could it
> > >be? Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > >$hourdiff = "-4";
> > >$timeadjust = ($hourdiff * 60 * 60);
> > >echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y") . "<br>" . date("g:i:s a",
> > >time() + $timeadjust) . "&nbsp;NYC";
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> > >AMP Technology
> > >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >http://www.nyphp.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> >AMP Technology
> >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >http://www.nyphp.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>



--
Brian O'Connor
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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 12:23:58 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 12:23:58 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Validating/cleaning/scrubbing
In-Reply-To: <3a2a0d6a56ce33fcaed8fb6b6b98b96a@musgrave.org>
References: <3a2a0d6a56ce33fcaed8fb6b6b98b96a@musgrave.org>
Message-ID: <b76252690510010923ye493734p2d999f874594cfa6@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/05, Stephen Musgrave <stephen at musgrave.org> wrote:
>
> Given Tuesday's presentation by Chris Shiflett (thanks, Chris!), I have
> been thinking more about security and am wondering if there are any
> classes out there that people are using that the trust and can
> recommend?  Any comments about PHP Input Filter?
>
> PHP Input Filter (linked the PHP Security Consortium web site)
> http://cyberai.com/inputfilter/
>

The blacklist in PHP Input Filter doesn't include the style attribute,
which can be used in a whole class of XSS attacks that involve
obscuring a page's real content with content of an attacker's
choosing.

Of course, stripping the style attribute will also break some of the
markup generated by most WYSIWYG html editors, so perhaps that's a
necessary compromise? It seems easy enough to ask it to strip style
attributes on demand.

--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From shiflett at php.net  Sat Oct  1 12:39:53 2005
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 12:39:53 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Validating/cleaning/scrubbing
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510010923ye493734p2d999f874594cfa6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3a2a0d6a56ce33fcaed8fb6b6b98b96a@musgrave.org>
	<b76252690510010923ye493734p2d999f874594cfa6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <433EBBD9.1010707@php.net>

Stephen Musgrave wrote:
 > Given Tuesday's presentation by Chris Shiflett (thanks, Chris!)

Thanks - I hope it was helpful. :-)

 > I have been thinking more about security and am wondering if
 > there are any classes out there that people are using that
 > the trust and can recommend? Any comments about PHP Input
 > Filter?

I'm the one that linked to it from the PHPSC Library, but I don't use 
it. It has a strong reputation, and I like the general approach - as a 
developer, you get to choose exactly what behavior you want.

I always write my own filtering logic, and I use the conventions that I 
described in the talk (simple naming convention, variable 
initialization, etc.).

csnyder wrote:
 > The blacklist in PHP Input Filter doesn't include the style
 > attribute, which can be used in a whole class of XSS attacks
 > that involve obscuring a page's real content with content of
 > an attacker's choosing.

You might be confusing this with something else. You get to specify 
exactly what your blacklist (or whitelist) of tags and attributes is.

Hope that helps.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy
http://brainbulb.com/


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 13:22:53 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:22:53 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] strategy question: point accrual system and bots
In-Reply-To: <p06230904bf6359faad46@192.168.1.44>
References: <433C07FB.60006@neuropunks.org>
	<p06230904bf6359faad46@192.168.1.44>
Message-ID: <b76252690510011022u535e7317p5a2c857b3a61a07f@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/05, Marc Antony Vose <suzerain at suzerain.com> wrote:

> I'm interested in people's strategies for preventing scripts or bots
> from continually submitting actions and accruing points for someone.
> In some cases, there are special things I can look for that will be
> the components of these actions, but I'm looking also for some kind
> of general strategy (special hash keys based on some random factor,
> etc. and so on).

>From a purely technical point of view, this is a Really Hard Problem.
You mention hash keys and random factors, but remember that a bot will
necessarily have access to any secrets that you send to its human
owner. You can make scripting difficult, but you will never be able to
make it impossible. If the incentive to cheat is high enough, your
valued users will find ways around javascript voodoo, captchas,
rate-limiting, IP-address limitations and any other barriers you put
in their way.

As Billy Reisinger already pointed out, it is a much better idea to
concentrate on detecting and dealing with fraud rather than preventing
it outright. In other words, the solution to this problem is social
rather than technological.

First, define the acceptable-use envelope: how fast can a user
accumulate points? Are users allowed to team up? Are users allowed to
log in from multiple locations? Are users allowed to sell their points
on e-Bay? Write a plain-language Terms of Service that explains what
is acceptable, what is not, and how you intend to deal with attempts
at defrauding the system.

Then find or build tools to identify marathon sessions, speed-surfing,
repeated access patterns, and other obvious robot-like behavior or
cheating. Keep an eye on the top performers (total points) and the
fastest climbers (points earned in the last 24 hours).

Never underestimate the value of direct contact. If something looks
suspicious, contact the user -- in my experience, most cheaters will
cave in immediately when caught, and describe how they rigged your
system if you promise to fix it so that no one else can get away with
a similar hack.

It's not that rate-limiting and careful session handling are a waste
of time -- they aren't, and they are important for other reasons. They
just aren't particularly effective at preventing the kind of abuse you
are concerned about.

--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From hendler at simmons.edu  Sat Oct  1 18:47:20 2005
From: hendler at simmons.edu (Jonathan)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:47:20 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Date switching back and forth
In-Reply-To: <29da5d150510010909y506861a4k5fd1184cd8969e3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20051001092221.033759c0@usa.com>	<433E919B.5040409@simmons.edu>	<6.2.5.6.2.20051001095537.02ea71b0@harveyk.com>
	<29da5d150510010909y506861a4k5fd1184cd8969e3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <433F11F8.6040304@simmons.edu>

strtotime() is also fun!

Brian O'Connor wrote:

> I prefer to use mktime for converting dates, but I guess that's just a 
> preference.
>
> $dateConversion = date('Y-m-d', mktime(date('H')-4, date('i'), 
> date('s'), date('m'), date('d'), date('Y')));
>
> On 10/1/05, *harvey* < list at harveyk.com <mailto:list at harveyk.com>> wrote:
>
>     Of course, not sure why I didn't see that.
>     Thanks a lot!
>
>
>     At 09:39 AM 10/1/2005, Jonathan wrote:
>
>     >There is an error in your code.
>     >You will always have the correctly adjusted hour because of
>     >
>     >  date("g:i:s a",
>     >time() + $timeadjust)
>     >
>     >
>     >But your date will be wrong for 4 hours every day because of
>     >
>     >echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y")
>     >
>     >
>     >You need to add your time adjust to each of those dates.
>     >Try
>     >$adjusted_time = time() + $timeadjust;
>     >
>     >echo date("l",$adjusted_time) . "<br>" . date("F jS,
>     Y",$adjusted_time);
>     >date("g:i:s a", $adjusted_time) ;
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >harvey wrote:
>     >
>     > >How is this possible? I have a site hosted at Yahoo and am
>     using the
>     > >following code to display the date/time at the top of the page.
>     Works
>     > >fine, except-- every once in a while, the date is one full day
>     off.
>     > >For example, on the 28th of this month at about 10pm, the page said
>     > >it was the 29th at 10pm. Later on, it was fine and said the right
>     > >date. Yahoo, of course, says it's not them, but what else could it
>     > >be? Thanks in advance.
>     > >
>     > >$hourdiff = "-4";
>     > >$timeadjust = ($hourdiff * 60 * 60);
>     > >echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y") . "<br>" .
>     date("g:i:s a",
>     > >time() + $timeadjust) . "&nbsp;NYC";
>     > >
>     > >_______________________________________________
>     > >New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>     > >AMP Technology
>     > >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>     > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>     > >http://www.nyphp.org
>     > >
>     > >
>     >
>     >_______________________________________________
>     >New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>     >AMP Technology
>     >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>     >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>     <http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>     >http://www.nyphp.org
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>     AMP Technology
>     Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>     http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Brian O'Connor
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>



From gatzby3jr at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 21:55:38 2005
From: gatzby3jr at gmail.com (Brian O'Connor)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 21:55:38 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Date switching back and forth
In-Reply-To: <433F11F8.6040304@simmons.edu>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20051001092221.033759c0@usa.com>
	<433E919B.5040409@simmons.edu>
	<6.2.5.6.2.20051001095537.02ea71b0@harveyk.com>
	<29da5d150510010909y506861a4k5fd1184cd8969e3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<433F11F8.6040304@simmons.edu>
Message-ID: <29da5d150510011855w55b6972aqec355566160539c3@mail.gmail.com>

I use strtotime to convert dates out of a database into more visually
pleasing forms :)

On 10/1/05, Jonathan <hendler at simmons.edu> wrote:
>
> strtotime() is also fun!
>
> Brian O'Connor wrote:
>
> > I prefer to use mktime for converting dates, but I guess that's just a
> > preference.
> >
> > $dateConversion = date('Y-m-d', mktime(date('H')-4, date('i'),
> > date('s'), date('m'), date('d'), date('Y')));
> >
> > On 10/1/05, *harvey* < list at harveyk.com <mailto:list at harveyk.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Of course, not sure why I didn't see that.
> > Thanks a lot!
> >
> >
> > At 09:39 AM 10/1/2005, Jonathan wrote:
> >
> > >There is an error in your code.
> > >You will always have the correctly adjusted hour because of
> > >
> > > date("g:i:s a",
> > >time() + $timeadjust)
> > >
> > >
> > >But your date will be wrong for 4 hours every day because of
> > >
> > >echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y")
> > >
> > >
> > >You need to add your time adjust to each of those dates.
> > >Try
> > >$adjusted_time = time() + $timeadjust;
> > >
> > >echo date("l",$adjusted_time) . "<br>" . date("F jS,
> > Y",$adjusted_time);
> > >date("g:i:s a", $adjusted_time) ;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >harvey wrote:
> > >
> > > >How is this possible? I have a site hosted at Yahoo and am
> > using the
> > > >following code to display the date/time at the top of the page.
> > Works
> > > >fine, except-- every once in a while, the date is one full day
> > off.
> > > >For example, on the 28th of this month at about 10pm, the page said
> > > >it was the 29th at 10pm. Later on, it was fine and said the right
> > > >date. Yahoo, of course, says it's not them, but what else could it
> > > >be? Thanks in advance.
> > > >
> > > >$hourdiff = "-4";
> > > >$timeadjust = ($hourdiff * 60 * 60);
> > > >echo date("l") . "<br>" . date("F jS, Y") . "<br>" .
> > date("g:i:s a",
> > > >time() + $timeadjust) . "&nbsp;NYC";
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> > > >AMP Technology
> > > >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> > > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > > >http://www.nyphp.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> > >AMP Technology
> > >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > <http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
> > >http://www.nyphp.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> > AMP Technology
> > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > http://www.nyphp.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brian O'Connor
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> >AMP Technology
> >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >http://www.nyphp.org
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>



--
Brian O'Connor
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From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Sun Oct  2 18:34:24 2005
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 18:34:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Date switching back and forth
In-Reply-To: <433F11F8.6040304@simmons.edu>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20051001092221.033759c0@usa.com>
	<433E919B.5040409@simmons.edu>
	<6.2.5.6.2.20051001095537.02ea71b0@harveyk.com>
	<29da5d150510010909y506861a4k5fd1184cd8969e3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<433F11F8.6040304@simmons.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510021833550.63008@emra.pair.com>

On Sat, 1 Oct 2005, Jonathan wrote:

> strtotime() is also fun!

Though a bit slower. (Isn't it?)

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/


From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 20:57:56 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 20:57:56 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: [nycbug-talk] gpl on /.
In-Reply-To: <0MKp2t-1ELPAV3kEl-0002Wy@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0MKp2t-1ELPAV3kEl-0002Wy@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <330532b60510021757s7576c822ob424d931dcfaa70d@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/05, Hans Zaunere <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:
>
> Marc Spitzer wrote on Friday, September 30, 2005 11:41 AM:
> > Saw below on slashdot, this is something we need to be up to speed on.
> >  All you web developers out there need to add in time for licence
> > review on your projects, if you use any 3rd party lib, ouch.

It is only an issue if you are trying to use the GPL and also have
non-GPL releases. If you are buying totally into the GPL, then by all
means go whole hog.

However, if you are trying to have a dual-licensed release, using the
GPL means you can pretty much forget about including any external GPL
libraries. That is where we are with both Mambo and Joomla! at
present, and isn't really all that bad.

Well, other than the fact that the first major commercial product from
JamboWorks is now going to be released under the GPL.

-- Mitch, crying in his Guinness


From mikko.rantalainen at peda.net  Mon Oct  3 05:09:50 2005
From: mikko.rantalainen at peda.net (Mikko Rantalainen)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:09:50 +0300
Subject: [nycphp-talk] GPL version 3
In-Reply-To: <0MKp2t-1ELPAV3kEl-0002Wy@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0MKp2t-1ELPAV3kEl-0002Wy@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <4340F55E.3020306@peda.net>

Hans Zaunere wrote:
> Marc Spitzer wrote on Friday, September 30, 2005 11:41 AM:
> 
>>Saw below on slashdot, this is something we need to be up to speed on.
>> All you web developers out there need to add in time for licence
>>review on your projects, if you use any 3rd party lib, ouch.
>>
>> [...]
>>interview link http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5884172.html
> 
> Interesting developments in the exciting world of GPL licensing...

If you're using GPL version 2 licensed software and you're happy 
with it, you have nothing to worry. GPL version 3 cannot change how 
old software has been licensed. If you comply with the GPL version 2 
now, you'll automaticaly comply with the GPL version 2 in the future 
too.

What could change, is that you cannot upgrade your GPL software if 
the latest release is distributed under *different* licence (e.g. 
GPL version 3 instead of GPL version 2). You need to review the 
license of any piece of software every time the license changes 
anyway, so this is nothing new.

It would be worth to mention that most software licensed under GPL 
version 2 have clause in their license that says:
"This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or 
modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as 
published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the 
License, or (at your option) any later version."

Note that it's up to the *end user* to decide which license he wants 
to accept. If version 3 allows something that version 2 didn't 
allow, then he clearly wants to select version 3. If version 2 suits 
you better, select that. Obviously, you cannot mix clauses from 
version 2 and version 3.

-- 
Mikko


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Mon Oct  3 08:11:23 2005
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:11:23 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Validating/cleaning/scrubbing
In-Reply-To: <433EBBD9.1010707@php.net>
References: <3a2a0d6a56ce33fcaed8fb6b6b98b96a@musgrave.org>	<b76252690510010923ye493734p2d999f874594cfa6@mail.gmail.com>
	<433EBBD9.1010707@php.net>
Message-ID: <43411FEB.1030705@email.smith.edu>

Chris Shiflett wrote:

>Stephen Musgrave wrote:
> > Given Tuesday's presentation by Chris Shiflett (thanks, Chris!)
>
>Thanks - I hope it was helpful. :-)
>  
>

Unfortunately I wasn't able to make it down for the presentation.  Will 
there be an audio recording posted and/or online presentation materials 
to view?

-Aaron



From wfan at VillageVoice.com  Mon Oct  3 16:43:47 2005
From: wfan at VillageVoice.com (Fan, Wellington)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:43:47 -0400 
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Any success/failures with PHP/Java bridge?
Message-ID: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24591B16F@mail>

Listies,

I will need to use a PHP/Java bridge soon and am looking for stories of
horror and delight. Anyone have any experiences?

I've heard some differing reports: it seems that there is some confusion
regarding the version of PHP required. I've heard that you *must* have 5,
and elsewhere it seems people are using 4.3.x with no problems.

The PHP/Java bridge lives at:
http://php-java-bridge.sourceforge.net/


And a mention that it works with PHP 4.3.2:
http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.java.php#53184


Thanks all!





From agfische at email.smith.edu  Mon Oct  3 16:56:32 2005
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:56:32 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bug in PHundamentals function?
Message-ID: <43419B00.8030107@email.smith.edu>

I've been thinking of implementing the PHundamentals function for fixing 
magic quotes when on a shared server:
(http://www.nyphp.org/phundamentals/storingretrieving.php)

The line in question:
return $sybase ? str_replace ('\'\'', '\'', $var) : stripslashes ($var);

I broke the str_replace and stripslashes out into separate code to test 
and make sure I understand what was going on.

When testing, the str_replace wasn't working as is with the search and 
replace string surrounded by single quotes.  After checking the php 
manual , I changed the search and replace text to be surrounded by 
double quotes and it worked correctly.

Should the PHundamentals function be changed to have double quotes? 

Here's the code I used to test:

    // test sybase str_replace with single quotes - doesn't appear to 
produce desired result
    echo '<br /><br />';
    $sb_string = "I\'\'m heading out on the road";
    $sb_string_new = str_replace('\'\'', '\'', $sb_string);
    echo 'Sybase string is ' . $sb_string . '<br />';
    echo 'String replace produces ' . $sb_string_new . '<br />';
   
    // test sybase str_replace with double quotes - appears to produce 
desired result
    echo '<br />';
    $sb_string_new = str_replace("\'\'", "\'", $sb_string);
    echo 'Sybase string is ' . $sb_string . '<br />';
    echo 'String replace produces ' . $sb_string_new . '<br />';

And the output:
Sybase string is I\'\'m heading out on the road
String replace produces I\'\'m heading out on the road

Sybase string is I\'\'m heading out on the road
String replace produces I\'m heading out on the road

Thoughts?

-Aaron


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Oct  3 17:09:17 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:09:17 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bug in PHundamentals function?
In-Reply-To: <43419B00.8030107@email.smith.edu>
References: <43419B00.8030107@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <43419DFD.8080504@phpwerx.net>

Aaron,

As it happens I wrote the line in question, so I'll try and explain 
what's going on ;)

I think that you're confused about the effect of the magic_quotes_sybase 
php.ini directive.

Say you had the string:

I'm heading out on the road

With magic_quotes_gpc=On and magic_quotes_sybase=Off, the string coming 
in would look like:

I\'m heading out on the road

With magic_quotes_gpc and magic_quotes_sybase both On, the string coming 
in would look like:

I''m heading out on the road

So, in php/english the idea of that line is:

if (magic_quotes_sybase = On) {
   // replace '' with '
   return str_replace ('\'\'', '\'', $var)
} else {
   // use regular stripslashes
   return stripslashes ($var)
}

You could also write the line as:

return $sybase ? str_replace ("''", "'", $var) : stripslashes ($var);

to have the same effect, but I tend to prefer using single-quoted 
strings unless I'm actually embedding \n line breaks or variables, so I 
went with the single-quotes-and-slashes encoding.

Dan

Aaron Fischer wrote:
> I've been thinking of implementing the PHundamentals function for fixing 
> magic quotes when on a shared server:
> (http://www.nyphp.org/phundamentals/storingretrieving.php)
> 
> The line in question:
> return $sybase ? str_replace ('\'\'', '\'', $var) : stripslashes ($var);
> 
> I broke the str_replace and stripslashes out into separate code to test 
> and make sure I understand what was going on.
> 
> When testing, the str_replace wasn't working as is with the search and 
> replace string surrounded by single quotes.  After checking the php 
> manual , I changed the search and replace text to be surrounded by 
> double quotes and it worked correctly.
> 
> Should the PHundamentals function be changed to have double quotes? 
> 
> Here's the code I used to test:
> 
>     // test sybase str_replace with single quotes - doesn't appear to 
> produce desired result
>     echo '<br /><br />';
>     $sb_string = "I\'\'m heading out on the road";
>     $sb_string_new = str_replace('\'\'', '\'', $sb_string);
>     echo 'Sybase string is ' . $sb_string . '<br />';
>     echo 'String replace produces ' . $sb_string_new . '<br />';
>    
>     // test sybase str_replace with double quotes - appears to produce 
> desired result
>     echo '<br />';
>     $sb_string_new = str_replace("\'\'", "\'", $sb_string);
>     echo 'Sybase string is ' . $sb_string . '<br />';
>     echo 'String replace produces ' . $sb_string_new . '<br />';
> 
> And the output:
> Sybase string is I\'\'m heading out on the road
> String replace produces I\'\'m heading out on the road
> 
> Sybase string is I\'\'m heading out on the road
> String replace produces I\'m heading out on the road
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> -Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org



From stephen at musgrave.org  Mon Oct  3 17:54:45 2005
From: stephen at musgrave.org (Stephen Musgrave)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 17:54:45 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ER Diagram tool for MySQL/OS X
Message-ID: <d6c93eab4c61a785cac2e3c74d18935d@musgrave.org>

Hello -

I am wondering if anybody has a favorite ER (Entity Relationship) 
Diagram tool that they like to use with MySQL on OS X.  Or if not an 
"official" piece of ER software, maybe some other visualization process 
manually done in something like Visio?  I only need it to be read-only 
- I've got a pretty large database I'm working with and I'd love a 
poster of it!

Thanks,

Stephen

???????????????????????????????
	email:	stephen at musgrave.org
	web:		http://stephen.musgrave.org/career
	office:  	 917.721.3378
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From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Mon Oct  3 19:11:45 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:11:45 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ER Diagram tool for MySQL/OS X
References: <d6c93eab4c61a785cac2e3c74d18935d@musgrave.org>
Message-ID: <06fd01c5c86f$d31f0e00$0319a8c0@ced>

Stephen,

I am currently the data-migration lead on a massive project covering just over 5,000 tables. I found the most effective tools to be Access, for getting a handle and feel on the data..
Visio, for setting up the normalized state of the 'new' DBs... Great DDL export features and options.
Query Analyzer, for actually scrubbing and working with the 'to-be moved' data.  

I'm fortunate enough to have an employer who provides me with this tools, however I have heard some really good things about DDT which can be found here amongst others:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Stephen Musgrave 
  To: talk at lists.nyphp.org 
  Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 5:54 PM
  Subject: [nycphp-talk] ER Diagram tool for MySQL/OS X


  Hello -

  I am wondering if anybody has a favorite ER (Entity Relationship) Diagram tool that they like to use with MySQL on OS X. Or if not an "official" piece of ER software, maybe some other visualization process manually done in something like Visio? I only need it to be read-only - I've got a pretty large database I'm working with and I'd love a poster of it!

  Thanks,

  Stephen

  ???????????????????????????????
  email: stephen at musgrave.org
  web: http://stephen.musgrave.org/career
  office: 917.721.3378


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New York PHP Talk Mailing List
  AMP Technology
  Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
  http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
  http://www.nyphp.org
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From agfische at email.smith.edu  Mon Oct  3 19:24:56 2005
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:24:56 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bug in PHundamentals function?
In-Reply-To: <43419DFD.8080504@phpwerx.net>
References: <43419B00.8030107@email.smith.edu> <43419DFD.8080504@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <4341BDC8.8060206@email.smith.edu>

Dan Cech wrote:

>Aaron,
>
>As it happens I wrote the line in question, so I'll try and explain 
>what's going on ;)
>
>  
>
Most appreciated Dan!

>I think that you're confused about the effect of the magic_quotes_sybase 
>php.ini directive.
>
>  
>
Hmmm, that doesn't surprise me.

>Say you had the string:
>
>I'm heading out on the road
>
>With magic_quotes_gpc=On and magic_quotes_sybase=Off, the string coming 
>in would look like:
>
>I\'m heading out on the road
>
>With magic_quotes_gpc and magic_quotes_sybase both On, the string coming 
>in would look like:
>
>I''m heading out on the road
>
>So, in php/english the idea of that line is:
>
>if (magic_quotes_sybase = On) {
>   // replace '' with '
>   return str_replace ('\'\'', '\'', $var)
>} else {
>   // use regular stripslashes
>   return stripslashes ($var)
>}
>
>You could also write the line as:
>
>return $sybase ? str_replace ("''", "'", $var) : stripslashes ($var);
>
>to have the same effect, but I tend to prefer using single-quoted 
>strings unless I'm actually embedding \n line breaks or variables, so I 
>went with the single-quotes-and-slashes encoding.
>
>Dan
>  
>
Gotcha.  I was thrown off by misinterpreting the search and replace strings.

Thanks, that's very helpful!

Cheers,

-Aaron





From shiflett at php.net  Mon Oct  3 19:27:03 2005
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:27:03 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bug in PHundamentals function?
In-Reply-To: <43419DFD.8080504@phpwerx.net>
References: <43419B00.8030107@email.smith.edu> <43419DFD.8080504@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <4341BE47.1080604@php.net>

Aaron Fischer wrote:
 > $sb_string = "I\'\'m heading out on the road";

You don't have to escape single quotes when you enclose the string with 
double quotes. I wrote a bit more on quoting strings here:

http://shiflett.org/archive/140

Dan Cech wrote:
 > return $sybase ? str_replace ("''", "'", $var) : stripslashes ($var);

I prefer this approach when it helps me avoid escaping. In this case, I 
think both look confusing, but the escaping makes it worse.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy
http://brainbulb.com/


From ps at pswebcode.com  Mon Oct  3 19:29:15 2005
From: ps at pswebcode.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:29:15 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bill Gates on Cover of InfoWorld
Message-ID: <002001c5c872$480dd460$68e4a144@PeterStorm>

http://www.infoworld.com/print_issue/archive/latest_print_issue.html

Just such a great goofy concept sketch of Bill Gates 
as hard edged football coach running MSFT.

Warmest regards,

Peter Sawczynec
Technology Director
PSWebcode
www.pswebcode.com
ps at pswebcode.com
718.796.1951




From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Oct  3 19:50:37 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:50:37 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ER Diagram tool for MySQL/OS X
In-Reply-To: <06fd01c5c86f$d31f0e00$0319a8c0@ced>
Message-ID: <007001c5c875$422be930$3dd9a8c0@MZ>



> I'm fortunate enough to have an employer who provides me with this tools,
> however I have heard some really good things about DDT which can be found
> here amongst others:  
> http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm

Nice page...

Myself a others are currently engaged in a large financial project and we've
been using Enterprise Architect.  Quite nice, with remote repository
management (via MySQL), project sharing, including straight forward
interface and UML.  We're using all facets of it, from business processes,
to state diagrams, to database reverse engineering from AS400/RPG.  Fun
stuff!



---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From agfische at email.smith.edu  Mon Oct  3 20:15:45 2005
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:15:45 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bug in PHundamentals function?
In-Reply-To: <4341BE47.1080604@php.net>
References: <43419B00.8030107@email.smith.edu> <43419DFD.8080504@phpwerx.net>
	<4341BE47.1080604@php.net>
Message-ID: <4341C9B1.8060004@email.smith.edu>

Chris Shiflett wrote:

>Aaron Fischer wrote:
> > $sb_string = "I\'\'m heading out on the road";
>
>You don't have to escape single quotes when you enclose the string with 
>double quotes. I wrote a bit more on quoting strings here:
>
>  
>
Right, I know that.  In this case I was attempting to recreate a string 
that would represent, say, a POST['var'] on a server that had 
magic_quotes_gpc turned on.   So I wanted the escape slash to be a part 
of the string so I could then test stripslashes on it.

It string var was actually supposed to be:
$sb_string = "I\'m heading out on the road";

Then:
$sb_string_new = stripslashes($sb_string);
// escape slash should be removed

>http://shiflett.org/archive/140
>
>  
>
Cool link.

>Dan Cech wrote:
> > return $sybase ? str_replace ("''", "'", $var) : stripslashes ($var);
>
>I prefer this approach when it helps me avoid escaping. In this case, I 
>think both look confusing, but the escaping makes it worse.
>
>  
>
This looks better to me too (but what do I know?).

-Aaron


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Oct  3 21:12:26 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:12:26 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bug in PHundamentals function?
In-Reply-To: <4341C9B1.8060004@email.smith.edu>
References: <43419B00.8030107@email.smith.edu>
	<43419DFD.8080504@phpwerx.net>	<4341BE47.1080604@php.net>
	<4341C9B1.8060004@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <4341D6FA.9040108@phpwerx.net>

Aaron Fischer wrote:
> Chris Shiflett wrote:
>> Dan Cech wrote:
>>> return $sybase ? str_replace ("''", "'", $var) : stripslashes ($var);
>>
>> I prefer this approach when it helps me avoid escaping. In this case, I 
>> think both look confusing, but the escaping makes it worse.
>
> This looks better to me too (but what do I know?).

Yes, the double-quoted syntax is probably easier to understand in this 
case.  Honestly I never thought about it because single-quoted is what I 
usually use.

That said there may also be a (very slight) performance advantage to 
using the single-quoted version, given the fact that it's executed for 
every member (recursively) of every array affected by magic_quotes_gpc, 
for every page load.

Dan


From ashaw at iifwp.org  Mon Oct  3 23:39:04 2005
From: ashaw at iifwp.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:39:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <06fd01c5c86f$d31f0e00$0319a8c0@ced>
References: <d6c93eab4c61a785cac2e3c74d18935d@musgrave.org>
	<06fd01c5c86f$d31f0e00$0319a8c0@ced>
Message-ID: <4341F958.7000707@iifwp.org>

CED wrote:

> http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm

That's a great list of tools. Something else very interesting to me is 
this note at the end of the page:

> *A short note about about Data Modelling and Database Design ...*
>
>Data modelling and database design are two very different activities.
> 
>For data modelling, the question you are asking is :
>1) What does the world being modelled look like ?  
>   In particular, you are looking for similarities between things. 
>   Then you identify a 'super-type' of thing which may have sub-types. 
>    For example, Corporate Customers and Personal Customers
>
>   If, for example, supplier contacts are conceptually different things from customer contacts, 
>  then the answer is that they should be modelled separately.  
>  On the other hand, if they are merely sub-sets of the same thing, then treat them as the same thing.
>
>2) For database design, you are answering a different question:-
>   how can I efficiently design a database that will support the functions of proposed application or Web Site. 
>   The key task here is to identify similarities between entities so that you can integrate them into the
>   same table, usually with a 'Type' indicator.
>   For example, a Customer table, which combines all attributes of both Corporate and Personal Customers.
>   As a result, it is possible to spend a great deal of time breaking things out when creating a Data Model, and 
>   then collapsing them back together when designing the corresponding database.
>
What interest me here is the writer's understanding that when I'm 
programming an actual application it's in my best interest to 
de-normalize the data model, aiming for fewer tables than my data model 
would have indicated.  I'm assuming this person has good reason for what 
he's saying, but it's something I've never thought of or heard before?

Can anyone suggest reasons why it's better to have fewer tables, or to 
try and combine different types of objects into the same table?  Surely 
it's something to do with better performance (fewer joins, simpler 
queries), right?  Is this a common principle of design that I haven't 
learned yet?

- Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)



From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Tue Oct  4 00:46:46 2005
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:46:46 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ER Diagram tool for MySQL/OS X
In-Reply-To: <007001c5c875$422be930$3dd9a8c0@MZ>
References: <007001c5c875$422be930$3dd9a8c0@MZ>
Message-ID: <43420936.3010209@cyberxdesigns.com>

Wow Hans, that sounds like a pretty cool project.  I wish I could get in 
on a gig like that.

Hans

---
Hans Kaspersetz / Presentation Lacky / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.cyberxdesigns.com




Hans Zaunere wrote:

>  
>
>>I'm fortunate enough to have an employer who provides me with this tools,
>>however I have heard some really good things about DDT which can be found
>>here amongst others:  
>>http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm
>>    
>>
>
>Nice page...
>
>Myself a others are currently engaged in a large financial project and we've
>been using Enterprise Architect.  Quite nice, with remote repository
>management (via MySQL), project sharing, including straight forward
>interface and UML.  We're using all facets of it, from business processes,
>to state diagrams, to database reverse engineering from AS400/RPG.  Fun
>stuff!
>
>
>
>---
>Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
>   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
>
>  
>


From phil at bearingasset.com  Tue Oct  4 08:06:47 2005
From: phil at bearingasset.com (Phil Duffy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:06:47 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <4341F958.7000707@iifwp.org>
Message-ID: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>

Allen,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Allen Shaw
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 10:39 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram

<snip>

> Can anyone suggest reasons why it's better to have fewer tables, or to
> try and combine different types of objects into the same table?  Surely
> it's something to do with better performance (fewer joins, simpler
> queries), right?  Is this a common principle of design that I haven't
> learned yet?

The rule I used in the development of a framework was (1) model the real
world first, and (2) de-normalize only when it is obviously necessary for
performance reasons.  I can't say that I ever read that anywhere, but I am
sure it is not original.

The framework was the foundation for large, complex applications with high
transaction volumes.  Performance was appropriate and de-normalization was
rare.

Phil





From rsd at electronink.com  Tue Oct  4 09:06:46 2005
From: rsd at electronink.com (Russ Demarest)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 09:06:46 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <6DD7AD27-1EFF-4A88-B388-3A6505539EA3@electronink.com>

Going back to the original request...

An ER tool I have heard good things about but have not played with  
much is  SQL 4X Manager J 3. If you got the time, check it out and  
let us know how it is.

http://www.macosguru.de/


On Oct 4, 2005, at 8:06 AM, Phil Duffy wrote:

> Allen,
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk- 
>> bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
>> On Behalf Of Allen Shaw
>> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 10:39 PM
>> To: NYPHP Talk
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER  
>> Diagram
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> Can anyone suggest reasons why it's better to have fewer tables,  
>> or to
>> try and combine different types of objects into the same table?   
>> Surely
>> it's something to do with better performance (fewer joins, simpler
>> queries), right?  Is this a common principle of design that I haven't
>> learned yet?
>>
>
> The rule I used in the development of a framework was (1) model the  
> real
> world first, and (2) de-normalize only when it is obviously  
> necessary for
> performance reasons.  I can't say that I ever read that anywhere,  
> but I am
> sure it is not original.
>
> The framework was the foundation for large, complex applications  
> with high
> transaction volumes.  Performance was appropriate and de- 
> normalization was
> rare.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
>



From dcallaghan at linuxmail.org  Tue Oct  4 09:30:51 2005
From: dcallaghan at linuxmail.org (Dave Callaghan)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 08:30:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
Message-ID: <20051004133051.C41443AA515@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com>

> Can anyone suggest reasons why it's better to have fewer tables, or to
> try and combine different types of objects into the same table?  Surely
> it's something to do with better performance (fewer joins, simpler
> queries), right?  Is this a common principle of design that I haven't
> learned yet?

Big tables (may) have big full table scans while multiple small tables (may) impact IO.

There is an impact with regard to full table scans depending on how many blocks your max row takes up. Of course, this will depend on how the columns are defined. Its easy to imagine a table with three column of BLOBS taking longer to scan then a table with 20 columns of single bytes.

There is also some simple math to estimate the impact of splitting the table out into multiple tables. You'll have 1+x primary keys (K) to maintain instead of just one. The height of your index (H) will also have an impact on IO. So, for every row retrieved, you can compare your baseline IO for a single table to K(H+1). Of course, this assumes that you are making this join frequently.

So, if you know that to actually describe the entity you will always need x attributes, and you split these x attributes into n tables where n > 1, you will likely suffer an unnecessary performance penalty. However, if to typically describe an entity you just need a subset of x (for example, employee contact info) and there is another subset y that is rarely accessed and would make for a large table scan (employee image), I might consider splitting them up.

Dave Callaghan
programmer
dcallaghan at linuxmail.org 

-- 
______________________________________________
Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.linuxmail.org
This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox.

Powered by Outblaze


From stephen at musgrave.org  Tue Oct  4 11:07:53 2005
From: stephen at musgrave.org (Stephen Musgrave)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:07:53 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>


On Oct 4, 2005, at 8:06 AM, Phil Duffy wrote:

>> Can anyone suggest reasons why it's better to have fewer tables, or to
>> try and combine different types of objects into the same table?  
>> Surely
>> it's something to do with better performance (fewer joins, simpler
>> queries), right?  Is this a common principle of design that I haven't
>> learned yet?
>
> The rule I used in the development of a framework was (1) model the 
> real
> world first, and (2) de-normalize only when it is obviously necessary 
> for
> performance reasons.  I can't say that I ever read that anywhere, but 
> I am
> sure it is not original.

This is an interesting topic because I'm approaching a question based 
upon this principal.  There is an application that I am building where 
the User record can have 5 addresses (home address, work address, 
permanent address, international address, etc, etc).  I'm considering 
making a table called UserAddress and then linking it to address ID 
fields in the User table.  I'm on the fence about it because while I 
don't want a monstrous User table with tons of columns, I also don't 
want to over normalize.

Thanks,

Stephen

???????????????????????????????
	email:	stephen at musgrave.org
	web:		http://stephen.musgrave.org/career
	office:  	 917.721.3378


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Tue Oct  4 11:15:06 2005
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans Kaspersetz)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:15:06 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ER Diagram tool for MySQL/OS X
In-Reply-To: <007001c5c875$422be930$3dd9a8c0@MZ>
References: <007001c5c875$422be930$3dd9a8c0@MZ>
Message-ID: <43429C7A.606@cyberxdesigns.com>

It just dawned on me, that I need to chime in here in a more thoughtful 
way.  Like Hans said, we are using Enterprise Architect, the short 
coming is that it does not run natively on OS X.  You will need virtual 
PC with Windows running on your OS X machine.  This will incur a 
performance hit.  I am currently using EA on OSX through Virtual PC with 
Windows XP Home.  It is not a terrible situation.  We standardized on EA 
even though a part of the team is on OS X becuase it is a very useful 
piece of software and the benefit of EA out weighs the cost of Virtual 
PC.  Just to be clear I have a 12" Power Book G4 1.33 with 1.2 GB of RAM.

Hans K

-- 
Hans C. Kaspersetz
Cyber X Designs
 
Office: 201-558-7929
http://www.cyberxdesigns.com



Hans Zaunere wrote:

>  
>
>>I'm fortunate enough to have an employer who provides me with this tools,
>>however I have heard some really good things about DDT which can be found
>>here amongst others:  
>>http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm
>>    
>>
>
>Nice page...
>
>Myself a others are currently engaged in a large financial project and we've
>been using Enterprise Architect.  Quite nice, with remote repository
>management (via MySQL), project sharing, including straight forward
>interface and UML.  We're using all facets of it, from business processes,
>to state diagrams, to database reverse engineering from AS400/RPG.  Fun
>stuff!
>
>
>
>---
>Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
>   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
>
>  
>

 



From ashaw at iifwp.org  Tue Oct  4 11:53:46 2005
From: ashaw at iifwp.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:53:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
	<f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>
Message-ID: <4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>

Stephen Musgrave wrote:

>This is an interesting topic because I'm approaching a question based 
>upon this principal.  There is an application that I am building where 
>the User record can have 5 addresses (home address, work address, 
>permanent address, international address, etc, etc).  I'm considering 
>making a table called UserAddress and then linking it to address ID 
>fields in the User table.  I'm on the fence about it because while I 
>don't want a monstrous User table with tons of columns, I also don't 
>want to over normalize.
>  
>
Here's a great working example to explore the issue.  I would let the 
User table contain no address info, and then let the UserAddress table 
contain one address per row with an extra column for UserID.  This seems 
like a clear one-to-many relationship between a person and his/her many 
addresses (also assuming it could be any number between 0 and 5, 
right?), so adding 5 sets of columns to the User table doesn't seem 
right...  

Honestly, the only reason I'm writing here is so someone can correct me 
if I'm wrong (and if I'm right then this might actually helping somebody 
-- neat-o ...).

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)



From ashaw at iifwp.org  Tue Oct  4 11:56:18 2005
From: ashaw at iifwp.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:56:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <20051004133051.C41443AA515@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20051004133051.C41443AA515@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <4342A622.2080203@iifwp.org>

Dave Callaghan wrote:

>There is also some simple math to estimate the impact of splitting the table out into multiple tables. You'll have 1+x primary keys (K) ...
>
[snip]

Dave, this is really interesting. If you (or anybody?) wants to 
recommend further reading on the topic I'd love to follow up more.  
Links, anyone?

Thanks,
Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)



From dcech at phpwerx.net  Tue Oct  4 12:03:24 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:03:24 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>	<f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>
	<4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>
Message-ID: <4342A7CC.9040302@phpwerx.net>

Allen Shaw wrote:
> Stephen Musgrave wrote:
> 
>> This is an interesting topic because I'm approaching a question based 
>> upon this principal.  There is an application that I am building where 
>> the User record can have 5 addresses (home address, work address, 
>> permanent address, international address, etc, etc).  I'm considering 
>> making a table called UserAddress and then linking it to address ID 
>> fields in the User table.  I'm on the fence about it because while I 
>> don't want a monstrous User table with tons of columns, I also don't 
>> want to over normalize.
>>  
> Here's a great working example to explore the issue.  I would let the 
> User table contain no address info, and then let the UserAddress table 
> contain one address per row with an extra column for UserID.  This seems 
> like a clear one-to-many relationship between a person and his/her many 
> addresses (also assuming it could be any number between 0 and 5, 
> right?), so adding 5 sets of columns to the User table doesn't seem 
> right...  
> 
> Honestly, the only reason I'm writing here is so someone can correct me 
> if I'm wrong (and if I'm right then this might actually helping somebody 
> -- neat-o ...).

I was going to say the same thing, although you would probably want the 
address table to contain the user id, address type and address columns.

It seems to make sense from pretty much every angle, and of course will 
work for any number of different addresses.  If you're interested in 
doing any queries that would match against more than 1 address then this 
will also be much easier, like:

SELECT user_id FROM addresses WHERE address_type IN (1,2,3) AND 
country='USA'

If you do go this way there is definitely no need to have any address 
columns in the user table, which is also a boon for any query where 
you're not pulling address information (which in my (limited) experience 
tends to be most of them).

Dan


From rsd at electronink.com  Tue Oct  4 12:16:26 2005
From: rsd at electronink.com (Russ Demarest)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 12:16:26 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
	<f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>
	<4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>
Message-ID: <ED7E9F68-25FE-48FF-88FF-EF494D9C26B1@electronink.com>

Another consideration is how you are using the addresses and the  
users. For example if you are going to be joining users with other  
tables then trying to determine which of those users also  have an  
address in  NY the queries can beat on your server. How many users  
will you have? What with the addresses be used for? Will you need to  
search all addresses for each user related to other tables?

 From a data point of view you would normalize it all and I would  
suggest a states and countries table to be linked to addresses as a  
well as address type. But when you are trying to come up with all the  
users with a address in NY who are related to other tables, i.e.  
groups, you may wish you have it all in one table.

If you get really "normal" you could have a "user_addresses" table  
which would contain the address_type field so if you have 2 users at  
the same address the address would only be in the address table once  
but related to both users. :)

Don't get me started if you need to track history. "Where did user X  
live at home 2 years ago?". Then you have a start_date and end_date  
in the user_addresses.

I have done it both ways and there really is not a clear winner,  
depends on the situation. I am glad I am not tracking user address  
history any more,

Good luck


On Oct 4, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Allen Shaw wrote:

> Stephen Musgrave wrote:
>
>
>> This is an interesting topic because I'm approaching a question based
>> upon this principal.  There is an application that I am building  
>> where
>> the User record can have 5 addresses (home address, work address,
>> permanent address, international address, etc, etc).  I'm considering
>> making a table called UserAddress and then linking it to address ID
>> fields in the User table.  I'm on the fence about it because while I
>> don't want a monstrous User table with tons of columns, I also don't
>> want to over normalize.
>>
>>
>>
> Here's a great working example to explore the issue.  I would let the
> User table contain no address info, and then let the UserAddress table
> contain one address per row with an extra column for UserID.  This  
> seems
> like a clear one-to-many relationship between a person and his/her  
> many
> addresses (also assuming it could be any number between 0 and 5,
> right?), so adding 5 sets of columns to the User table doesn't seem
> right...
>
> Honestly, the only reason I'm writing here is so someone can  
> correct me
> if I'm wrong (and if I'm right then this might actually helping  
> somebody
> -- neat-o ...).
>
> -- 
> Allen Shaw
> Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
>



From max.goldberg at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 12:46:55 2005
From: max.goldberg at gmail.com (max goldberg)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 12:46:55 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <ED7E9F68-25FE-48FF-88FF-EF494D9C26B1@electronink.com>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
	<f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>
	<4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>
	<ED7E9F68-25FE-48FF-88FF-EF494D9C26B1@electronink.com>
Message-ID: <87e6ded30510040946s701ccf5fn45bc1753e84f8fa3@mail.gmail.com>

I'm actually running into the point of an application where my completely
normalized database design is just killing my database server. It was fine
during the first few months of my site being up but as my traffic grew, it
really began to take a toll. The first thing I had to do was move from
MyISAM to InnoDB, due to the huge number of locks causing the site to just
screech to a halt. On average I am getting around 5000 hits per minute to
the PHP pages that connect to the database. During the "slow" time at 7am, I
get around 2500. I've managed to lower my average queries per second from
300 to 220, but normalization is still killing me.

This makes doing any sort of database maintenance fairly difficult. InnoDB
has helped a lot, I have a dedicated DB server, but one query that has to
copy to a temp table on each page view means almost certain death. My
temporary solution to this has been to create "digest" tables which are more
or less 5-10 table joins that get refreshed every X minutes via cron. This
obviously causes caching problems as data isn't up to the second, and it
seems like a pain to write code around using this "hack" to make my
application work as it should.

I've considered using InnoDB's cascading update/delete function to keep my
digest tables up to date without a cron job, but I want to play with it more
before I just launch into it. I am starting to wonder how much of this is
just my lack of expertise in database administration and how much is just a
fundamental flaw with normalized database design. Is it possible to have a
large scale production database with a fully normalized design without
extremely expensive hardware?

It seems like it would be worth the extra overhead to keep behind-the-scenes
digest tables of commonly joined tables, is this something that higher end
databases (ie. oracle) do?

-Max

On 10/4/05, Russ Demarest <rsd at electronink.com> wrote:
>
> Another consideration is how you are using the addresses and the
> users. For example if you are going to be joining users with other
> tables then trying to determine which of those users also have an
> address in NY the queries can beat on your server. How many users
> will you have? What with the addresses be used for? Will you need to
> search all addresses for each user related to other tables?
>
> From a data point of view you would normalize it all and I would
> suggest a states and countries table to be linked to addresses as a
> well as address type. But when you are trying to come up with all the
> users with a address in NY who are related to other tables, i.e.
> groups, you may wish you have it all in one table.
>
> If you get really "normal" you could have a "user_addresses" table
> which would contain the address_type field so if you have 2 users at
> the same address the address would only be in the address table once
> but related to both users. :)
>
> Don't get me started if you need to track history. "Where did user X
> live at home 2 years ago?". Then you have a start_date and end_date
> in the user_addresses.
>
> I have done it both ways and there really is not a clear winner,
> depends on the situation. I am glad I am not tracking user address
> history any more,
>
> Good luck
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Allen Shaw wrote:
>
> > Stephen Musgrave wrote:
> >
> >
> >> This is an interesting topic because I'm approaching a question based
> >> upon this principal. There is an application that I am building
> >> where
> >> the User record can have 5 addresses (home address, work address,
> >> permanent address, international address, etc, etc). I'm considering
> >> making a table called UserAddress and then linking it to address ID
> >> fields in the User table. I'm on the fence about it because while I
> >> don't want a monstrous User table with tons of columns, I also don't
> >> want to over normalize.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Here's a great working example to explore the issue. I would let the
> > User table contain no address info, and then let the UserAddress table
> > contain one address per row with an extra column for UserID. This
> > seems
> > like a clear one-to-many relationship between a person and his/her
> > many
> > addresses (also assuming it could be any number between 0 and 5,
> > right?), so adding 5 sets of columns to the User table doesn't seem
> > right...
> >
> > Honestly, the only reason I'm writing here is so someone can
> > correct me
> > if I'm wrong (and if I'm right then this might actually helping
> > somebody
> > -- neat-o ...).
> >
> > --
> > Allen Shaw
> > Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> > AMP Technology
> > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > http://www.nyphp.org
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
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From phil at bearingasset.com  Tue Oct  4 13:16:43 2005
From: phil at bearingasset.com (Phil Duffy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:16:43 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>
Message-ID: <20051004171654.55D4CA87DA@virtu.nyphp.org>

Allen,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Allen Shaw
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 10:54 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
> tool for MySQL/OS X)
> 
> Stephen Musgrave wrote:
> 
> >This is an interesting topic because I'm approaching a question based
> >upon this principal.  There is an application that I am building where
> >the User record can have 5 addresses (home address, work address,
> >permanent address, international address, etc, etc).  I'm considering
> >making a table called UserAddress and then linking it to address ID
> >fields in the User table.  I'm on the fence about it because while I
> >don't want a monstrous User table with tons of columns, I also don't
> >want to over normalize.
> >
> >
> Here's a great working example to explore the issue.  I would let the
> User table contain no address info, and then let the UserAddress table
> contain one address per row with an extra column for UserID.  This seems
> like a clear one-to-many relationship between a person and his/her many
> addresses (also assuming it could be any number between 0 and 5,
> right?), so adding 5 sets of columns to the User table doesn't seem
> right...
> 
> Honestly, the only reason I'm writing here is so someone can correct me
> if I'm wrong (and if I'm right then this might actually helping somebody
> -- neat-o ...).
> 

In my opinion, you are exactly correct.  We went down this road with our
Zephyr System and specifically its Industry-neutral Core
(http://www.eleccott.com/indneutl.htm ).  We also established an Address
Type table and coded each address by type, e.g., Legal Address, Billing
Address, Remittance Address.  One of the attributes of the Address Type
table was a Single-Address-of-Type flag such that only one Legal Address
could be entered, but multiple Vacation Addresses could be entered.

I also believe that creating a database with a specified number of 5 or any
other number of addresses brings unnecessary rigidity, and perhaps
complexity, to a system.

BTW, in the world of business objects, even the concept of a User needs to
be rethought.  I would do away with Users as a fundamental business object
and replace it with the more generic Person, and identify system Users as a
subset of the Person universe.  Users then become Persons who play the Role,
System User, in which additional sets of information are required such as
username, password, permissions, et cetera.

HTH

Phil





From phil at bearingasset.com  Tue Oct  4 13:47:19 2005
From: phil at bearingasset.com (Phil Duffy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:47:19 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
	toolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <ED7E9F68-25FE-48FF-88FF-EF494D9C26B1@electronink.com>
Message-ID: <20051004174732.D273BA87F6@virtu.nyphp.org>



Russ,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Russ Demarest
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 11:16 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
> toolfor MySQL/OS X)

>  From a data point of view you would normalize it all and I would
> suggest a states and countries table to be linked to addresses as a
> well as address type. But when you are trying to come up with all the
> users with a address in NY who are related to other tables, i.e.
> groups, you may wish you have it all in one table.

We found FIPS Pub 55-3 ( http://www.census.gov/geo/www/fips/fips.html ) to
be helpful for creating the geographical sub-division structure within a
country and FIPS 10-4 (http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/fips10-4.html ) to
be useful for country coding and the first level of country sub-division.
The latter introduces the issues of multiple sub-division types within a
country (US has states and a district, Canada has provinces and territories,
and Argentina has districts, national territories and provinces).  FIPS 10-4
also reveals the native names for these sub-divisions, e.g., distrito,
territorio nacional and provincia for Argentina and velayats for
Afghanistan.

You may have an issue with postal codes since these vary by country.  We
addressed that by establishing different format masks such that multiple
countries could share the same postal code mask for editing.  Canada, UK and
the US all used different postal code masks, which were attributes of the
country table.

> 
> If you get really "normal" you could have a "user_addresses" table
> which would contain the address_type field so if you have 2 users at
> the same address the address would only be in the address table once
> but related to both users. :)

Absolutely.  When the oldest daughter in a 12-child family moves out, only
her association with the address is changed.  This can be a real issue in
medical information systems in which the caregivers are responsible for
multiple family members.

Phil





From rahmin at insite-out.com  Tue Oct  4 13:56:46 2005
From: rahmin at insite-out.com (Rahmin Pavlovic)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:56:46 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] GD Lib 2, resiszing GIFs
Message-ID: <200510041756.j94HukGs023621@webmail4.megamailservers.com>

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From ken at secdat.com  Tue Oct  4 14:40:11 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:40:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <87e6ded30510040946s701ccf5fn45bc1753e84f8fa3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
	<f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>
	<4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>
	<ED7E9F68-25FE-48FF-88FF-EF494D9C26B1@electronink.com>
	<87e6ded30510040946s701ccf5fn45bc1753e84f8fa3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <33354.38.117.147.25.1128451211.squirrel@38.117.147.25>


> It seems like it would be worth the extra overhead to keep
> behind-the-scenes
> digest tables of commonly joined tables, is this something that higher end
> databases (ie. oracle) do?

It's not so much the higher-end databases do it, but that they can do it,
whereas I'm not sure mySQL can.

One method is to use triggers to update the digest tables when detail
tables are updated.

Another method is to use "materialized views", where you create a view
that is kept updated by the system.  In method 1 you do the work, in
method 2 the system does the work.

barring these, you would update the digest tables yourself whenever the
detail tables are updated.

One danger of course is that you introduce contention on the writes if
everybody is trying to hit the digest tables.  If you mave many more reads
than writes this may not be an issue.

>
> -Max
>
> On 10/4/05, Russ Demarest <rsd at electronink.com> wrote:
>>
>> Another consideration is how you are using the addresses and the
>> users. For example if you are going to be joining users with other
>> tables then trying to determine which of those users also have an
>> address in NY the queries can beat on your server. How many users
>> will you have? What with the addresses be used for? Will you need to
>> search all addresses for each user related to other tables?
>>
>> From a data point of view you would normalize it all and I would
>> suggest a states and countries table to be linked to addresses as a
>> well as address type. But when you are trying to come up with all the
>> users with a address in NY who are related to other tables, i.e.
>> groups, you may wish you have it all in one table.
>>
>> If you get really "normal" you could have a "user_addresses" table
>> which would contain the address_type field so if you have 2 users at
>> the same address the address would only be in the address table once
>> but related to both users. :)
>>
>> Don't get me started if you need to track history. "Where did user X
>> live at home 2 years ago?". Then you have a start_date and end_date
>> in the user_addresses.
>>
>> I have done it both ways and there really is not a clear winner,
>> depends on the situation. I am glad I am not tracking user address
>> history any more,
>>
>> Good luck
>>
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Allen Shaw wrote:
>>
>> > Stephen Musgrave wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> This is an interesting topic because I'm approaching a question based
>> >> upon this principal. There is an application that I am building
>> >> where
>> >> the User record can have 5 addresses (home address, work address,
>> >> permanent address, international address, etc, etc). I'm considering
>> >> making a table called UserAddress and then linking it to address ID
>> >> fields in the User table. I'm on the fence about it because while I
>> >> don't want a monstrous User table with tons of columns, I also don't
>> >> want to over normalize.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Here's a great working example to explore the issue. I would let the
>> > User table contain no address info, and then let the UserAddress table
>> > contain one address per row with an extra column for UserID. This
>> > seems
>> > like a clear one-to-many relationship between a person and his/her
>> > many
>> > addresses (also assuming it could be any number between 0 and 5,
>> > right?), so adding 5 sets of columns to the User table doesn't seem
>> > right...
>> >
>> > Honestly, the only reason I'm writing here is so someone can
>> > correct me
>> > if I'm wrong (and if I'm right then this might actually helping
>> > somebody
>> > -- neat-o ...).
>> >
>> > --
>> > Allen Shaw
>> > Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>> > AMP Technology
>> > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> > http://www.nyphp.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>> AMP Technology
>> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> http://www.nyphp.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From krook at us.ibm.com  Tue Oct  4 14:50:06 2005
From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:50:06 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <33354.38.117.147.25.1128451211.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
Message-ID: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>

> > It seems like it would be worth the extra overhead to keep
> > behind-the-scenes
> > digest tables of commonly joined tables, is this 
> something that higher end
> > databases (ie. oracle) do?
> 
> It's not so much the higher-end databases do it, but that 
> they can do it,
> whereas I'm not sure mySQL can.
> 
> One method is to use triggers to update the digest tables 
> when detail
> tables are updated.
> 
> Another method is to use "materialized views", where you 
> create a view
> that is kept updated by the system.  In method 1 you do the work, in
> method 2 the system does the work.
> 
> barring these, you would update the digest tables yourself
> whenever the
> detail tables are updated.


DB2 uses a technology called Materialized Query Tables (MQTs) that are 
intended for this type of work.  They were introduced in version 8 but 
were known in a limited form as summary tables (ASTs) in version 7.

As described above, there are two ways to keep these "perma-views" in 
synch with the base tables, either user refreshed or system refreshed:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0509melnyk/

Since the Zend Core for IBM is based on PHP/DB2, these might be available 
to play around with.
http://www.zend.com/core/ibm/





Daniel Krook, Advisory IT Specialist 
Application Development, Production Services - Tools, ibm.com

Personal: http://info.krook.org/
BluePages: http://bluepages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/
BlogPages: http://blogpages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/





From agfische at email.smith.edu  Tue Oct  4 15:08:07 2005
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:08:07 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Automating a manual process
Message-ID: <4342D317.2040509@email.smith.edu>

Greetings,

I have a manual process that I would like to make happen automatically 
(on a scheduled basis).

The process:
1)  In MS Access on a local computer, run a query on a table, then 
export the query as a text file.
2)  From same local computer, append the text file data to a MySQL table 
on my web server.

I would appreciate any tips or suggestions on how to make this happen. 

Thanks,

-Aaron



From chsnyder at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 15:16:54 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:16:54 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] ER Diagram tool for MySQL/OS X
In-Reply-To: <43429C7A.606@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <007001c5c875$422be930$3dd9a8c0@MZ>
	<43429C7A.606@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510041216p68918436xdac5fee4e9273243@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/05, Hans Kaspersetz <hans at cyberxdesigns.com> wrote:
> It just dawned on me, that I need to chime in here in a more thoughtful
> way.  Like Hans said, we are using Enterprise Architect, the short
> coming is that it does not run natively on OS X.  You will need virtual
> PC with Windows running on your OS X machine.  This will incur a
> performance hit.  I am currently using EA on OSX through Virtual PC with
> Windows XP Home.  It is not a terrible situation.  We standardized on EA
> even though a part of the team is on OS X becuase it is a very useful
> piece of software and the benefit of EA out weighs the cost of Virtual
> PC.  Just to be clear I have a 12" Power Book G4 1.33 with 1.2 GB of RAM.
>
> Hans K

Rather than take the Virtual PC performance hit, you should probably
run a copy on a spare Windows box somewhere and use Remote Desktop to
bring it up on your Mac.

From chsnyder at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 15:27:39 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:27:39 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <20051004171654.55D4CA87DA@virtu.nyphp.org>
References: <4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>
	<20051004171654.55D4CA87DA@virtu.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <b76252690510041227x3193e85aid9c50f3a96910a39@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/05, Phil Duffy <phil at bearingasset.com> wrote:

> BTW, in the world of business objects, even the concept of a User needs to
> be rethought.  I would do away with Users as a fundamental business object
> and replace it with the more generic Person, and identify system Users as a
> subset of the Person universe.  Users then become Persons who play the Role,
> System User, in which additional sets of information are required such as
> username, password, permissions, et cetera.


Preach it, brother!


--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Tue Oct  4 15:40:57 2005
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:40:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Automating a manual process
In-Reply-To: <4342D317.2040509@email.smith.edu>
References: <4342D317.2040509@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510041514310.9079@emra.pair.com>

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Aaron Fischer wrote:

> I have a manual process that I would like to make happen automatically
> (on a scheduled basis).
>
> The process:
> 1)  In MS Access on a local computer, run a query on a table, then
> export the query as a text file.
> 2)  From same local computer, append the text file data to a MySQL table
> on my web server.
>
> I would appreciate any tips or suggestions on how to make this happen.

I assume you mean export the data resulting from the query.

I haven't done much windows for a while and don't know the counterpart of
cron, but there must be one. But that's the last step.

You should be able to create an ODBC data source, then access it
programmatically -- e.g., with the PHP ODBC API
(http://us3.php.net/manual/en/ref.uodbc.php)

With your data in hand, it seems you can either

(1) connect to your hosts MySQL database directly across the network from
your machine and run the insert queries, or, if they don't let you do
that,

(2) do your own export-as-text (e.g., to tab-delimited), then upload it
via POST (cURL might be helpful) to another PHP script on your server that
accepts the upload and knows what to do with it -- break it back down and
run the queries with it. You will no doubt want to add user authentication
to the mix and possibly SSL.

There's probably a simpler/better solution about to be posted any second.
(-:


---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/


From yournway at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 16:42:22 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:42:22 +0100
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Automating a manual process
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510041514310.9079@emra.pair.com>
References: <4342D317.2040509@email.smith.edu>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510041514310.9079@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <edce57650510041342k71b1df8cu@mail.gmail.com>

On 04/10/05, David Mintz <dmintz at davidmintz.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Aaron Fischer wrote:
>
> > I have a manual process that I would like to make happen automatically
> > (on a scheduled basis).
> >
>
> You should be able to create an ODBC data source, then access it
> programmatically -- e.g., with the PHP ODBC API
> (http://us3.php.net/manual/en/ref.uodbc.php)
>
> With your data in hand, it seems you can either
>
> (1) connect to your hosts MySQL database directly across the network from
> your machine and run the insert queries, or, if they don't let you do
> that,
>
> (2) do your own export-as-text (e.g., to tab-delimited), then upload it
> via POST (cURL might be helpful) to another PHP script on your server that
> accepts the upload and knows what to do with it -- break it back down and
> run the queries with it. You will no doubt want to add user authentication
> to the mix and possibly SSL.
>
> There's probably a simpler/better solution about to be posted any second.
> (-:
>
>
> ---
> David Mintz
> http://davidmintz.org/


I second the opinion that the simplest is to interconnect both databases
with php.

Another solution I had to implement once was to have an asp dump an XML,
using scheduled tasks on Win2K, to a certain network folder, and have a php
get it using getElementByID and dump it to MySQL.
It worked fine, though I had to get someone to do me the asp, hehe.

--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.
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From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Oct  4 18:12:56 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:12:56 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <4429-66439@sneakemail.com>

Daniel Krook krook-at-us.ibm.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>DB2 uses a technology called Materialized Query Tables (MQTs) that are 
>intended for this type of work.  They were introduced in version 8 but 
>were known in a limited form as summary tables (ASTs) in version 7.
>
>As described above, there are two ways to keep these "perma-views" in 
>synch with the base tables, either user refreshed or system refreshed:
>http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0509melnyk/
>  
>

I stayed out of this but am glad Dan added his comments. The developer 
needs to develop code for the app, and in this case the app is no longer 
trying to query the database as was designed -- it's querying summary 
tables as it is now required to do.

Who made that decision? based on data models? Database design? App 
design? All of the above.

Once the *already designed* app (with *already designed* database) was 
analyzed, the system imposed requirements BASED ON THOSE DESIGNS. There 
is more than one way to achieve normalization, but it was irrelevant if 
the database had to be redesigned for performance for this application. 
This recursive design process is at the heart of successful development 
IMHO.

I guess I am just underlining that the initial question of modeling data 
vs. modeling system or application requirements does not always 
encompass database design. In my experience, one must always consider 
the platform and the application from the start, and almost always 
re-design the database around platform factors known later. Yeah, lots 
of "extra work".

One plus for agile software development http://agilemanifesto.org/ and 
an underline of the value of "ben there, done that".

-=john andrews
http://www.seo-fun.com



From ashaw at iifwp.org  Tue Oct  4 18:47:43 2005
From: ashaw at iifwp.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:47:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <4429-66439@sneakemail.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>
	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <4343068F.8050604@iifwp.org>

inforequest wrote:

>I guess I am just underlining that the initial question of modeling data 
>vs. modeling system or application requirements does not always 
>encompass database design. In my experience, one must always consider 
>the platform and the application from the start, and almost always 
>re-design the database around platform factors known later. Yeah, lots 
>of "extra work".
>
>One plus for agile software development http://agilemanifesto.org/ and 
>an underline of the value of "ben there, done that".
>  
>
Great link, and all in all this whole discussion is very helpful -- I've 
been way gone on normalization and never really considered the impact 
that it could have on my apps.

- Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)



From ken at secdat.com  Tue Oct  4 19:09:41 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:09:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <4343068F.8050604@iifwp.org>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>
	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com> <4343068F.8050604@iifwp.org>
Message-ID: <33417.38.117.147.25.1128467381.squirrel@38.117.147.25>


> inforequest wrote:
>
>>I guess I am just underlining that the initial question of modeling data
>>vs. modeling system or application requirements does not always
>>encompass database design. In my experience, one must always consider
>>the platform and the application from the start, and almost always
>>re-design the database around platform factors known later. Yeah, lots
>>of "extra work".
>>
>>One plus for agile software development http://agilemanifesto.org/ and
>>an underline of the value of "ben there, done that".
>>
>>
> Great link, and all in all this whole discussion is very helpful -- I've
> been way gone on normalization and never really considered the impact
> that it could have on my apps.

Normalization can have a huge impact on your apps -- it can reduce many
data entry errors and eliminate others entirely.  That is its purpose. 
Without normalization all of the time you spend supporting a slow app will
be spent fixing errors in bad data.

But querying data is a different thing.  If you have known common queries
that aggregate and join data, then by all means create some summary system
that is, hopefully, automatic and guaranteed to be right.  This is not
really denormalization, though the relational theorist will argue it is. 
What it is in fact is the creation of derived tables based on normalized
tables.

But anyway, normalize the tables users can directly modify, and use
summaries derived from those normalized tables.  Then you get accurate
data coming in and that makes for accurate summaries.



>
> - Allen
>
> --
> Allen Shaw
> Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Tue Oct  4 19:21:07 2005
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:21:07 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <4429-66439@sneakemail.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>
	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>

inforequest wrote:
> Daniel Krook krook-at-us.ibm.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
> 
> 
>>DB2 uses a technology called Materialized Query Tables (MQTs) that are 
>>intended for this type of work.  They were introduced in version 8 but 
>>were known in a limited form as summary tables (ASTs) in version 7.
>>
>>As described above, there are two ways to keep these "perma-views" in 
>>synch with the base tables, either user refreshed or system refreshed:
>>http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0509melnyk/
>> 
>>
> 
> 
> I stayed out of this but am glad Dan added his comments. The developer 
> needs to develop code for the app, and in this case the app is no longer 
> trying to query the database as was designed -- it's querying summary 
> tables as it is now required to do.
> 
> Who made that decision? based on data models? Database design? App 
> design? All of the above.
> 
> Once the *already designed* app (with *already designed* database) was 
> analyzed, the system imposed requirements BASED ON THOSE DESIGNS. There 
> is more than one way to achieve normalization, 

Have a look at:
'The Dangerous Illusion: Denormalization, Performance and Integrity'

http://dmreview.com/article_sub.cfm?articleId=5251

Read the part that starts off with: "a fully normalized relational 
database consists of R-tables. Each represents just one entity type..."

It strikes me that normalization of data follows a strict path --
first normal, second normal, and so on.

That is, there is not such a thing as  "more than one
'right way' " to normalize data -- not even with Perl packages.

> but it was irrelevant if 
> the database had to be redesigned for performance for this application. 
> This recursive design process is at the heart of successful development 
> IMHO.
> 
> I guess I am just underlining that the initial question of modeling data 
> vs. modeling system or application requirements does not always 
> encompass database design. In my experience, one must always consider 
> the platform and the application from the start, and almost always 
> re-design the database around platform factors known later. Yeah, lots 
> of "extra work". 

"... conceptual modeling is inherently an informal endeavor, logical 
modeling?which is where normalization applies?is based on formal theory. 
Otherwise put, while business modeling is all art, logical database 
design is, at least in part, science. And the theory is there not for 
its own sake, but to guarantee consistency and avoid the practical 
problems...

-- Fabian Pascal
(the same author of the above article)

> 
> One plus for agile software development http://agilemanifesto.org/ and 
> an underline of the value of "ben there, done that".
> 


been there and 're-done' that you mean..

-- 
T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From krook at us.ibm.com  Tue Oct  4 19:56:35 2005
From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:56:35 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <33417.38.117.147.25.1128467381.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
Message-ID: <OF008A1262.FE5BB2BD-ON85257090.008131A1-85257090.0083839C@us.ibm.com>

> Normalization can have a huge impact on your apps -- it 
> can reduce many
> data entry errors and eliminate others entirely.  That is 
> its purpose. 
> Without normalization all of the time you spend supporting
> a slow app will
> be spent fixing errors in bad data.
> 
> But querying data is a different thing.  If you have known
> common queries
> that aggregate and join data, then by all means create 
> some summary system
> that is, hopefully, automatic and guaranteed to be right. 
> This is not
> really denormalization, though the relational theorist 
> will argue it is. 
> What it is in fact is the creation of derived tables based
> on normalized
> tables.
> 
> But anyway, normalize the tables users can directly modify, and use
> summaries derived from those normalized tables.  Then you 
> get accurate
> data coming in and that makes for accurate summaries.


Excellent point Kenneth,

This is the very thing Craig S. Mullins envisions in his "Death of 
Denormalization" articles. [1][2]   "With MQTs, you can achieve the best 
of both worlds: fully normalized tables to ensure data integrity during 
modification and MQTs for efficient querying." [2]   In essense, you don't 
have to change your data model just your hardware or software.

But Fabian Pascal says the solution isn't that denormalization will be 
rendered obsolete by faster physical resources, it's rethinking those 
software systems in the first place to support true high-form 
normalization that should eliminate performance issues.   "Hardware, 
product and optimization improvements are, of, course, always desirable 
and welcome, but they are only add-ons, not substitutes for the real and 
fundamental solution: well implemented TRDBMSs, whose performance is not 
hindered, but actually enhanced with fully normalized databases." [3].

Interesting reading, and nice affirmations to normalize. :)


[1] The Death of Denormalization
http://www.dbta.com/columnists/craig_mullins/dba_corner_0104.html

[2] Materialized Query Tables and the Death of Denormalization
http://www.zjournal.com/Article.asp?ArticleId=875

[3] Irrational Exuberance
http://www.dbazine.com/ofinterest/oi-articles/pascal18




Daniel Krook, Advisory IT Specialist 
Application Development, Production Services - Tools, ibm.com

Personal: http://info.krook.org/
BluePages: http://bluepages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/
BlogPages: http://blogpages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/




From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 22:04:30 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 22:04:30 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
Message-ID: <330532b60510041904k5b78b30ei3afc48e836c78f38@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/05, Russ Demarest <rsd at electronink.com> wrote:
>
> Don't get me started if you need to track history. "Where did user X
> live at home 2 years ago?". Then you have a start_date and end_date
> in the user_addresses.

This is one of the main reasons I look for support for Stored
Procedures and Triggers. With those two available, versioning can be
automated and absolutely zero hassle to the programmer.

For example, you could add begin_date and end_date in the user_address
table, and then create a trigger that fired on INSERT statements that
setup the proper values for each (as well as an UPDATE trigger that
also updates the values). You could also add address_status instead,
if you wanted to track without dates if that direction suits your
purposes better.

In the end, you can put that work in the database, where IMHO it belongs.

-- Mitch


From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 22:19:43 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 22:19:43 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <87e6ded30510040946s701ccf5fn45bc1753e84f8fa3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
	<f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>
	<4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>
	<ED7E9F68-25FE-48FF-88FF-EF494D9C26B1@electronink.com>
	<87e6ded30510040946s701ccf5fn45bc1753e84f8fa3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <330532b60510041919i3a599048na7f7f903e4c9f492@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/05, max goldberg <max.goldberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm actually running into the point of an application where my completely
> normalized database design is just killing my database server. It was fine
> during the first few months of my site being up but as my traffic grew, it
> really began to take a toll. The first thing I had to do was move from
> MyISAM to InnoDB, due to the huge number of locks causing the site to just
> screech to a halt. On average I am getting around 5000 hits per minute to
> the PHP pages that connect to the database. During the "slow" time at 7am, I
> get around 2500.  I've managed to lower my average queries per second from
> 300 to 220, but normalization is still killing me.

Without knowing your datamodel, I cannot really tell you much. My
experience tells me that the more you normalize, the less you will
encounter the locks that MySQL ISAM tables are prone to.
Denormalization will make your problems worse for sure.

>  I've considered using InnoDB's cascading update/delete function to keep my
> digest tables up to date without a cron job, but I want to play with it more
> before I just launch into it. I am starting to wonder how much of this is
> just my lack of expertise in database administration and how much is just a
> fundamental flaw with normalized database design. Is it possible to have a
> large scale production database with a fully normalized design without
> extremely expensive hardware?

See below for my comments, but I have personally worked on sites using
both MySQL and PostgreSQL that had daily page views well into the
millions. The PostgreSQL sites usually have no problems, and the one
really huge MySQL site had major ones - but remember that this was
almost ten years ago when MySQL was just a little punk ;-)

I would wager that moving to a more recent version of MySQL would
alleviate some of your pain, but I have no idea what version you are
using at the moment.

>  It seems like it would be worth the extra overhead to keep
> behind-the-scenes digest tables of commonly joined tables, is this something
> that higher end databases (ie. oracle) do?

I worked on a site with over 7.5 million page views daily, and ran on
two dual-xeon servers with PHP and PostgreSQL. The MySQL version of
the app had the exact same problems you had, and I also had to switch
to InnoDB tables to keep indexes from getting blown away on very
active tables. Interestingly enough, PostgreSQL handled the normalized
design without a burp. The switcheroo also included the implementation
of a lot more functionality, like foreign keys, stored procedures and
triggers. I expected a wash in performance, but it was just a tad
faster under heavy load.

I know of a financial application that was using SQL Server, and when
you get to like 20 joins or whatever the query just fails. A quick
port to PostgreSQL and all those joins run just fine.

I spend most of my time in PostgreSQL - but I can say that if you have
a sophisticated data model with a lot of foreign constraints,
PostgreSQL's MVCC model takes care of a lot of the pain that other
databases often experience when doing lots of JOIN operations.

Time to take a look at the impending MySQL 5.0 (it *is* going stable
sometime right? hehe) as I am not really up to speed with what MySQL
has to offer with the latest versions.

But in the end you can definitely run high-traffic, data-intensive
websites with open source databases, and I would only consider a big
commercial RDBMS if you hired someone with that particular skillset;
and even then it would be more of a business decision than a technical
one.

-- Mitch


From lists at zaunere.com  Tue Oct  4 23:00:07 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:00:07 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Google as a Penetration Tool
Message-ID: <001901c5c958$e60db450$6601a8c0@MZ>


Through some various newsletters I'm subscribed to, and by way of various
reads lately, Google as a penetration tool has come up several times.  Some
insightful links, related to Oracle:

http://www.red-database-security.com/wp/google_oracle_hacking_us.pdf

Mostly surrounding this book/author:

http://johnny.ihackstuff.com/

And don't think that a couple of well crafted searches for phpmyadmin
wouldn't show numerous results.  Just some food for thought.


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From ken at secdat.com  Wed Oct  5 06:16:54 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 06:16:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <OF008A1262.FE5BB2BD-ON85257090.008131A1-85257090.0083839C@us.ibm.com>
References: <33417.38.117.147.25.1128467381.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
	<OF008A1262.FE5BB2BD-ON85257090.008131A1-85257090.0083839C@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <33539.38.117.147.25.1128507414.squirrel@38.117.147.25>


>> Normalization can have a huge impact on your apps -- it
>> can reduce many
>> data entry errors and eliminate others entirely.  That is
>> its purpose.
>> Without normalization all of the time you spend supporting
>> a slow app will
>> be spent fixing errors in bad data.
>>
>> But querying data is a different thing.  If you have known
>> common queries
>> that aggregate and join data, then by all means create
>> some summary system
>> that is, hopefully, automatic and guaranteed to be right.
>> This is not
>> really denormalization, though the relational theorist
>> will argue it is.
>> What it is in fact is the creation of derived tables based
>> on normalized
>> tables.
>>
>> But anyway, normalize the tables users can directly modify, and use
>> summaries derived from those normalized tables.  Then you
>> get accurate
>> data coming in and that makes for accurate summaries.
>
>
> Excellent point Kenneth,

Thank you.

>
> This is the very thing Craig S. Mullins envisions in his "Death of
> Denormalization" articles. [1][2]   "With MQTs, you can achieve the best
> of both worlds: fully normalized tables to ensure data integrity during
> modification and MQTs for efficient querying." [2]   In essense, you don't
> have to change your data model just your hardware or software.

His point is subcategory of the entire concept of automation and how it is
put into context with normalization.

>
> But Fabian Pascal says the solution isn't that denormalization will be
> rendered obsolete by faster physical resources, it's rethinking those
> software systems in the first place to support true high-form
> normalization that should eliminate performance issues.   "Hardware,
> product and optimization improvements are, of, course, always desirable
> and welcome, but they are only add-ons, not substitutes for the real and
> fundamental solution: well implemented TRDBMSs, whose performance is not
> hindered, but actually enhanced with fully normalized databases." [3].
>

Generally I ignore Fabian Pascal.  His solution too often is to tell
everybody how wrong they are, and how they don't know enough.  There are
more elegant authors out there who realize you have to talk to people
where they are at.

>
>
> [1] The Death of Denormalization
> http://www.dbta.com/columnists/craig_mullins/dba_corner_0104.html
>
> [2] Materialized Query Tables and the Death of Denormalization
> http://www.zjournal.com/Article.asp?ArticleId=875
>
> [3] Irrational Exuberance
> http://www.dbazine.com/ofinterest/oi-articles/pascal18
>
>
>
>
> Daniel Krook, Advisory IT Specialist
> Application Development, Production Services - Tools, ibm.com
>
> Personal: http://info.krook.org/
> BluePages: http://bluepages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/
> BlogPages: http://blogpages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From dipeshjr at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  5 07:54:48 2005
From: dipeshjr at yahoo.com (DIPESH RABADIYA)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 04:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Problem while compiling php
Message-ID: <20051005115448.77678.qmail@web54006.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

I've problem while compiling php.

I've to compil php with clibpdf and readline new
option.
I've used following command:

'./configure' '--prefix=/usr/local' '--enable-exif'
'--enable-track-vars' '--with-calendar=shared'
'--enable-magic-quotes' '--enable-trans-sid'
'--enable-wddx' '--enable-ftp'
'--enable-inline-optimization' '--enable-memory-limit'
'--with-config-file-scan-dir=/etc/php.d'
'--with-openssl=/usr' '--with-gd'
'--with-zlib-dir=/usr'
'--with-readline=/usr/include/readline'
'--with-cpdflib=/usr/local/include'
'--with-png-dir=/usr' '--with-jpeg-dir=/usr'
'--with-mysql=/usr' '--with-ldap'
'--with-apache=/home/dipesh/server_Install/192.168.0.18/serverInstall/Apachetoolbox-1.5.72/apache_1.3.31'

but still its not wokring with php

could you pleas help me ???

Regards,

Dipesh Rabadiya


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From lists at zaunere.com  Wed Oct  5 10:21:56 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:21:56 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Problem while compiling php
In-Reply-To: <20051005115448.77678.qmail@web54006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c5c9b8$26f5b710$3dd9a8c0@MZ>



DIPESH RABADIYA wrote on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 7:55 AM:
> Hi All,
> 
> I've problem while compiling php.
> 
> I've to compil php with clibpdf and readline new
> option.
> I've used following command:
> 
> './configure' '--prefix=/usr/local' '--enable-exif'
> '--enable-track-vars' '--with-calendar=shared'
> '--enable-magic-quotes' '--enable-trans-sid'
> '--enable-wddx' '--enable-ftp'
> '--enable-inline-optimization' '--enable-memory-limit'
> '--with-config-file-scan-dir=/etc/php.d'
> '--with-openssl=/usr' '--with-gd'
> '--with-zlib-dir=/usr'
> '--with-readline=/usr/include/readline'
> '--with-cpdflib=/usr/local/include'
> '--with-png-dir=/usr' '--with-jpeg-dir=/usr'
> '--with-mysql=/usr' '--with-ldap'
>
'--with-apache=/home/dipesh/server_Install/192.168.0.18/serverInstall/Apache
toolbox-1.5.72/apache_1.3.31'
> 
> but still its not wokring with php

What's not working?  Does ./configure break?  Does the compile fail?  You
need to tell us where it breaks, and what the pertinent error message is.


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From sailer at bnl.gov  Wed Oct  5 11:02:23 2005
From: sailer at bnl.gov (Tim Sailer)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:02:23 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <4342A7CC.9040302@phpwerx.net>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
	<f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>
	<4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org> <4342A7CC.9040302@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <20051005150223.GA18286@bnl.gov>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 12:03:24PM -0400, Dan Cech wrote:
> Allen Shaw wrote:
> > Stephen Musgrave wrote:
> > 
> >> This is an interesting topic because I'm approaching a question based 
> >> upon this principal.  There is an application that I am building where 
> >> the User record can have 5 addresses (home address, work address, 
> >> permanent address, international address, etc, etc).  I'm considering 
> >> making a table called UserAddress and then linking it to address ID 
> >> fields in the User table.  I'm on the fence about it because while I 
> >> don't want a monstrous User table with tons of columns, I also don't 
> >> want to over normalize.
> >>  
> > Here's a great working example to explore the issue.  I would let the 
> > User table contain no address info, and then let the UserAddress table 
> > contain one address per row with an extra column for UserID.  This seems 
> > like a clear one-to-many relationship between a person and his/her many 
> > addresses (also assuming it could be any number between 0 and 5, 
> > right?), so adding 5 sets of columns to the User table doesn't seem 
> > right...  
> > 
> > Honestly, the only reason I'm writing here is so someone can correct me 
> > if I'm wrong (and if I'm right then this might actually helping somebody 
> > -- neat-o ...).
> 
> I was going to say the same thing, although you would probably want the 
> address table to contain the user id, address type and address columns.
> 
> It seems to make sense from pretty much every angle, and of course will 
> work for any number of different addresses.  If you're interested in 
> doing any queries that would match against more than 1 address then this 
> will also be much easier, like:
> 
> SELECT user_id FROM addresses WHERE address_type IN (1,2,3) AND 
> country='USA'
> 
> If you do go this way there is definitely no need to have any address 
> columns in the user table, which is also a boon for any query where 
> you're not pulling address information (which in my (limited) experience 
> tends to be most of them).

I agree. I also go one step more extreme, and have an address_type table that
has the address_type_id and the char user-friendly 'address type'. This way
(for the benefit of people that haven't done this type of thing before) you
simply add another row to the address_tpe table to add another type of address,
and to use in your contraints. If you're not using DB enforced constraints (ie
foreign keys), be careful to not delete an address type from the table and
leave orphaned records in the address table.

Tim

-- 
Tim Sailer <sailer at bnl.gov> 
Information and Special Technologies Program
Office of CounterIntelligence 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  (631) 344-3001


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Oct  5 12:11:13 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (cliff)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:11:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <20051005150223.GA18286@bnl.gov>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
	<f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>
	<4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org> <4342A7CC.9040302@phpwerx.net>
	<20051005150223.GA18286@bnl.gov>
Message-ID: <20051005161113.M96592@pinestream.com>

I just read about normalizing to 3NF and as an example, the book showed how 
in an extreme case of obsessive 3NF compliance city and state address fields 
could really be separate tables since city depends on state, state depends 
on country, etc. A bit extreme to me, but food for thought.

Regarding another point previously made in this thread: MySQL versus 
Postgres. MySQL seems to have all the momentum, yet a previous poster gave 
the impression that Postgres is more advanced. Should we be looking at 
Postgres more seriously despite the MySQL onslaught? Why does it seem like 
PHP/MySQL has become one word -- like Wintel -- instead of PHP/Postgres?

Cliff Hirsch


From phil at bearingasset.com  Wed Oct  5 15:16:41 2005
From: phil at bearingasset.com (Phil Duffy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:16:41 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
	toolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <20051005161113.M96592@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <20051005191702.5135AA86EA@virtu.nyphp.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of cliff
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:11 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
> toolfor MySQL/OS X)
> 
> I just read about normalizing to 3NF and as an example, the book showed
> how
> in an extreme case of obsessive 3NF compliance city and state address
> fields
> could really be separate tables since city depends on state, state depends
> on country, etc. A bit extreme to me, but food for thought.

I suspect there are two issues here: (1) storage of codes for address fields
and (2) the overall design requirements of the system.

Typically codes are stored and are in general use outside of systems for
states, e.g., NY for New York and PA for Pennsylvania.  So the question
comes down to the use of codes for further political sub-divisions
(particularly municipalities in the US where counties do not appear in the
typical address).  So it would seem to be obsessive to store the
municipality as a code as opposed to the string, because that would double
the number of disk accesses (one for all the other elements of the address
and one for the municipal code lookup).

The second issue is concerned with the requirements of the system.  I would
make a distinction between 'application' requirements and 'system'
requirements, but I would acknowledge that others could make the case they
are the same.  To me an application tends to be a broad set of functions
accessing a database that address a specified need, such as an airline's
reservation application or an inventory control application.  The
immediately perceived needs define the application.  The system, on the
other hand, tends to be something quite different, what evolves over time,
particularly when the initial application has been successful.

The challenge of the system designer is to discern the future direction of
the system and make no mistakes in the design that would be prohibitive to
reverse.  Application programs are typically not nearly as disastrous as
databases in this regard.

All things being equal, it is probably better to err on the side of
obsession when designing a database.  For example, one approach might be to
use municipal tables to assure that the municipality is a valid entity, but
then store the string.  In that way the database design is normalized at the
foundation level, but has a thin veneer of de-normalization over the top for
operational efficiency.

At least that seems to have worked for me.

Phil





From dcech at phpwerx.net  Wed Oct  5 17:09:54 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:09:54 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] fun with proc_open
Message-ID: <43444122.5000108@phpwerx.net>

Hi all,

Firstly, apologies for the long email, I couldn't think of a less 
verbose way to describe the issues I'm experiencing.

I'm in the midst of writing a little program for executing long-running 
processes in the background from php and monitoring their output as they 
run.

The problem I'm running into is that when I execute a process using 
proc_open and try to read any output from stdout and stderr I am running 
into some odd behavior.

This only seems to happen under windows, running the same script on my 
debian server works as expected.

The first read from stdout is fine, but then it doesn't get any more 
output from stdout until the end of the script.

Is there some issue with using stdout and stderr together in this way 
that I don't know about?

My test code looks like this:

<?php

// allow script to run for 5 minutes
set_time_limit(300);

// maximum length of blocks to read from process
define('FREAD_LENGTH',1024*10);

$cmd = 'php '.dirname(__FILE__).DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR.'sleep.php';

$descriptorspec = array(
   1 => array('pipe','w'), // stdout
   2 => array('pipe','w'), // stderr
);

$process = proc_open($cmd,$descriptorspec,$pipes);

if (!is_resource($process)) {
   echo 'failed'."\n";
   exit(1);
}

// don't block process stdout or stderr
stream_set_blocking($pipes[1],0);
stream_set_blocking($pipes[2],0);

// don't buffer stdout or stderr
stream_set_write_buffer($pipes[1],0);
stream_set_write_buffer($pipes[2],0);

while (true) {
   // read process stdout
   $stdout = fread($pipes[1],FREAD_LENGTH);
   if (strlen($stdout) > 0) {
     echo 'stdout:'. $stdout;
     flush();
   }

   // read process stderr
   $stderr = fread($pipes[2],FREAD_LENGTH);
   if (strlen($stderr) > 0) {
     echo 'stderr:'. $stderr;
     flush();
   }

   // end when both pipes are closed
   if (feof($pipes[1]) && feof($pipes[2])) {
     break;
   }

   // wait for more output
   sleep(1);
}

// close process stdout and stderr
fclose($pipes[1]);
fclose($pipes[2]);

// grab exit code
$exitcode = proc_close($process);

echo 'exitcode:'. $exitcode ."\n";

// end of script

sleep.php is a simple script that outputs some data:

<?php

ob_implicit_flush();

echo('started'."\n");

for ($i = 1;$i <= 10;$i++) {
	sleep(1);
	echo($i."\n");
}

fwrite(STDERR,'done'."\n");

// end of script

Running the first script from command line or web browser should output:

stdout:started
stdout:1
stdout:2
stdout:3
stdout:4
stdout:5
stdout:6
stdout:7
stdout:8
stdout:9
stdout:10
stderr:done
exitcode:0

On windows I'm seeing:

stdout:started
stderr:done
stdout:1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
exitcode:0

I've managed to get the same functionality using popen and redirecting 
stderr to a fifo or tempfile, but proc_open seems like the cleaner 
solution if I can get it to work the way I want.

Any ideas?

Dan


From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 17:12:05 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:12:05 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <20051005161113.M96592@pinestream.com>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>
	<f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>
	<4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org> <4342A7CC.9040302@phpwerx.net>
	<20051005150223.GA18286@bnl.gov>
	<20051005161113.M96592@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <330532b60510051412i40d94d4fm85164a81a5f6ca2d@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/5/05, cliff <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> Regarding another point previously made in this thread: MySQL versus
> Postgres. MySQL seems to have all the momentum, yet a previous poster gave
> the impression that Postgres is more advanced. Should we be looking at
> Postgres more seriously despite the MySQL onslaught? Why does it seem like
> PHP/MySQL has become one word -- like Wintel -- instead of PHP/Postgres?

In a nutshell, PostgreSQL started out with one primary goal, SQL
compliance (and that means features). MySQL however started out with
only three goals - speed, speed, and more speed.

While PostgreSQL found that so many features required a tremendous
amount of refactoring and tuning to get performance and stability up
to a reasonable level, MySQL was under constant pressure to add
features that every other database had. (I remember joking, and not
that long ago, that the only database that has as few features as
MySQL was Access, and at the time Access had more features LOL)

So PostgreSQL started out really fat, with a ton of features, and had
major speed and stability issues. We are talking *major* speed and
stability issues. And MySQL started out really fast, unbelievably
fast, but had almost no capabilities, and no way to ensure clean,
consistent data - like spreadsheets for linux webservers.

Talk about opposite ends of the spectrum!

I think that they are now basically meeting in the middle, with
PostgreSQL is just as fast as any other database out there, and I have
seen PostgreSQL perform better than most for very sophisticated
designs; and MySQL has lost all of that legendary speed in order to
implement features that keep it competitive with other database
offerings.

My philosophical choice of PostgreSQL over MySQL has really only one
important point:

1) They are meeting in the middle, but PostgreSQL has had most of this
functionality for *years*. Maybe MySQL is finally getting around to
adding the stuff I require, but PostgreSQL has had it for a loooong
time, and it is absolutely bazooka proof at this point.

It's there, it's free (BSD license), why the heck not? ;-)

Perhaps most importantly, the decision for you (the web developer)
should really boil down to this one question: Where are you planning
on implementing the "business rules" of your application?

If you want to put logic in your database, you should look at
PostgreSQL, and if you want to put that logic in your code then MySQL
or PostgreSQL would most likely suffice. There are some very emotional
people out there on this topic (me included!) but perhaps this is more
of a personal preference than scientific conclusion. Would love to
hear other thoughts on this!

As for the popularity comparison...

MySQL has always had a better press relationship than PostgreSQL. Also
consider that MySQL was easy for folks to learn, because it really
could not do much more than store data anyway. With a commercial
entity behind MySQL, there was a budget for advertising, and
evangelism was a priority for them - whereas PostgreSQL has had many
supporters that had absolutely no interest in the market, and made no
effort to spread the word.

Another thing is that now as both PHP and MySQL gain complexity as
they mature, PostgreSQL will most likely not be perceived as such a
complex beast anymore.

For me, PostgreSQL is always the default, regardless of the
application, unless the client demands a commercial database.

Here is an interesting read, on what the databases do incorrectly or poorly:

MySQL Gotchas:
http://sql-info.de/mysql/gotchas.html

PostgreSQL Gotchas:
http://sql-info.de/postgresql/postgres-gotchas.html

-- Mitch


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Oct  5 17:32:23 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:32:23 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com>
	<43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <3270-41147@sneakemail.com>

Tim Gales tgales-at-tgaconnect.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> It strikes me that normalization of data follows a strict path --first 
> normal, second normal, and so on.
>
>That is, there is not such a thing as  "more than one 'right way' " to normalize data -- not even with Perl packages
>  
>

Show me a "fully normalized" database supporting a web app, done close 
to schedule and budget. I double dog dare ya.

I do NOT recommend de-normalizing. Dan's commments were on summary table 
built and managed by the dbms... and the coder now had to code to those 
instead of the db tables. That's great, IMHO, because it guarantees 
interity to the degree that the dbms can maintain it (presumably better 
than the developer can). I do believe there are multiple ways to 
normalize, because you have to select a base data unit around which you 
build your app (and normalize your database). Some hard-core database 
guys fallback on semantics here -- they assume there is no data except 
what is specified in the data model. Sure.. in that case, full norm is 
the only option. But I don't think it's a realistic (nor particularly 
helpful) perspective.

For a real estate application, is the base unit of location state, city, 
market area, zip code, GIS coordinates, zone, or what? Practically GIS 
coordinates represent the fnest granularity available and are actually 
required for some mapping applications. But are placename databases 
available by GIS coordinates? No, and they wouldn't be to useful 
anyway.  Somebody will have to pick a basis and it will be based on 
real-world application requirements. Yes, they are thusly translated 
into RESTRICTIONS and theoretically will hinder scalability.When and if 
additional data elements are needed (perhaps increased granularity for 
location parameters in the zip code example) the system will be revealed 
to be not normal and will need to be fixed.  In the context of this 
discussion, data types were being examined as they relate to 
normalization in the database design.

In my view, you need to base that on experience, choosing data 
structures that permit the application to accomplish it's goals, while 
being normalized. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too. In other 
words, I prefer to keep the database theorists out of the kitchen.

There is more than one way to normalize, because there are multiple ways 
to define the data set. That's my point. In addressing the developers' 
needs, the database design seems to come later. But of course we need a 
solid database design to start; it has to be done first... hence the 
recursive puzzle.But should we start with full normalized form? We would 
never get development started.

I love database guys... as much as I love graphic designers. But I won't 
let either one tell me how to code ;-)

-=john andrews
http://www.seo-fun.com






From redbox2000 at optonline.net  Wed Oct  5 18:29:43 2005
From: redbox2000 at optonline.net (Martin Lanser)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:29:43 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Project management solutions
In-Reply-To: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE3580135531C@network.PLMresearch.com>
Message-ID: <0INW00MAQRTOLYD0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

I don't know if you're only looking at OSS solutions, but you may want to
look at Copper [http://www.copperproject.com/index.php]. It's not that
expensive, but it does have some features (like task dependencies) that some
of the tools in your list are lacking.

I've also played quite a bit w/ phpCollab & NetOffice, both of which are
pretty good, but I decided in the end to purchase Copper.

Hope this helps ...
-martin.

  

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Withington
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:05 PM
To: 'bostonphptalk at bostonphp.org'; 'talk at lists.nyphp.org'
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Project management solutions

I'm on the front-end of a research project to locate "good" PHP project
management solutions.  So far I've identified the following candidates.
Does anyone have experience with

PHProjekt http://www.phprojekt.com/	
DOTproject http://www.dotproject.net/	
Netoffice http://netoffice.sourceforge.net 
TUTOS http://www.tutos.org	
more.groupware http://mgw.k-fish.de/
phpGroupWare http://www.phpgroupware.org/

Any ones that I've missed?

Thanks in advance,

Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
"eBusiness for the Midsize Enterprise"
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
Yahoo:  PLMresearch2000
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org



From smanes at magpie.com  Wed Oct  5 21:19:38 2005
From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:19:38 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510051412i40d94d4fm85164a81a5f6ca2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051004120654.669E0A862D@virtu.nyphp.org>	<f7d27e7d88bc6b1b737204ca62265128@musgrave.org>	<4342A58A.1020309@iifwp.org>
	<4342A7CC.9040302@phpwerx.net>	<20051005150223.GA18286@bnl.gov>	<20051005161113.M96592@pinestream.com>
	<330532b60510051412i40d94d4fm85164a81a5f6ca2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43447BAA.2090104@magpie.com>

Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> For me, PostgreSQL is always the default, regardless of the
> application, unless the client demands a commercial database.

Or MySQL.  Excellent thumbnail summary of MySQL's and PostgreSQL's 
respective childhoods, BTW.

I'm the same: PostgreSQL is my default RDBMS and has been since 7.2.  We 
used it when we built Trafficmac and damned if that PG server hasn't 
been rebooted or PG restarted in... lemme check... yikes... 599 days! 
And because it's an adserver reporting aggregator/ad ops workflow tool 
for WSJ, Foxnews, CBSMW and Cars.com, we hammer hard it every day.

I was a big MySQL guy until I got hired into an Oracle shop (CCI) where 
I got spoiled on Oracle's unbelievably rich feature set... foreign keys, 
procs, triggers, dblinks, AQ.  Oracle isn't just a database hanging off 
an application; it's an operating system.  When I returned to consulting 
my philosophy for how to build data-driven sites had taken a quantum 
leap and MySQL couldn't oblige.

MySQL4 provided a couple of those features and MySQL5 offers even more. 
  That's great to see but it's going to be a while before it catches up 
to PG8's feature set.  Meanwhile, PG's got a lot on its TODO plate so I 
don't think it will be sleeping either:

   http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs.TODO.html



From rinaldy_roy at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  6 02:57:27 2005
From: rinaldy_roy at yahoo.com (rinaldy roy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 23:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Insert Primary Key Value into Foreign Key
Message-ID: <20051006065727.24887.qmail@web52705.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear all, 
I have a table with a primary key in it. I use stored procedures to insert new records. What I want to know is how do I make it so a column (foreign key) in another table adds the same number as the primary key in the original table when a new record is inserted? My database is generated by MS ACCESS
 
Rinaldy RM

		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
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From jsiegel1 at optonline.net  Thu Oct  6 07:44:17 2005
From: jsiegel1 at optonline.net (Jeff Siegel)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:44:17 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Insert Primary Key Value into Foreign Key
In-Reply-To: <20051006065727.24887.qmail@web52705.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0INX00LU1SM6OHL0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

 
Is this a question about MS Access or PHP?
 
Jeff

 

  _____  

From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of rinaldy roy
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:57 AM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Insert Primary Key Value into Foreign Key


Dear all, 
I have a table with a primary key in it. I use stored procedures to insert
new records. What I want to know is how do I make it so a column (foreign
key) in another table adds the same number as the primary key in the
original table when a new record is inserted? My database is generated by MS
ACCESS
 
Rinaldy RM


  _____  

Yahoo! for Good
Click here  <http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/> to donate to the
Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
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From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Thu Oct  6 07:47:58 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:47:58 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Insert Primary Key Value into Foreign Key
References: <20051006065727.24887.qmail@web52705.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <09fc01c5ca6b$cc97f7b0$0319a8c0@ced>

You need to make a PK to FK relationship. I'm not sure how appropriate this topic is to this list.

Try here: 
http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=92899

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: rinaldy roy 
  To: talk at lists.nyphp.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 2:57 AM
  Subject: [nycphp-talk] Insert Primary Key Value into Foreign Key


  Dear all, 
  I have a table with a primary key in it. I use stored procedures to insert new records. What I want to know is how do I make it so a column (foreign key) in another table adds the same number as the primary key in the original table when a new record is inserted? My database is generated by MS ACCESS

  Rinaldy RM


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Yahoo! for Good
  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Oct  6 07:53:58 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:53:58 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Loop next/previous offset boundaries in Arrays
Message-ID: <000a01c5ca6c$a2b7cb40$0ba8a8c0@cliff>

In a loop, a common function seems to be comparing a current array value
with the next or prior array value. Seems easy, except for the first and
last loops, which generate undefined offset errors. Is there a "clean"
way to get around this other than testing for the first or last loop
value, which generates a lot of extra code.
 
Cliff Hirsch
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From dcech at phpwerx.net  Thu Oct  6 09:22:04 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:22:04 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Loop next/previous offset boundaries in Arrays
In-Reply-To: <000a01c5ca6c$a2b7cb40$0ba8a8c0@cliff>
References: <000a01c5ca6c$a2b7cb40$0ba8a8c0@cliff>
Message-ID: <434524FC.8050908@phpwerx.net>

Cliff,

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do, but you may find the 
following useful:

$myarray = array();
unset($prev);

foreach ($myarray as $curr) {
   if (isset($prev)) {
     // compare $prev and $curr
   }
   $prev = $curr;
}


$myarray = array();
unset($curr);

foreach ($myarray as $next) {
   if (isset($curr)) {
     // compare $curr and $next
   }
   $curr = $next;
}

These won't work properly if the arrays contain null values, though I'm 
sure someone on the list will have an idea on that one.

Dan

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> In a loop, a common function seems to be comparing a current array value
> with the next or prior array value. Seems easy, except for the first and
> last loops, which generate undefined offset errors. Is there a "clean"
> way to get around this other than testing for the first or last loop
> value, which generates a lot of extra code.
>  
> Cliff Hirsch
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org



From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Thu Oct  6 09:54:22 2005
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:54:22 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Apache htaccess auth
Message-ID: <43452C8E.5060900@cyberxdesigns.com>

I know this might be off topic a bit but I can't figure it out and I am 
confident NYPHP is the place for AMP answers.

I am developing an application that needs to receive http responses from 
a remote system.  Currently, the entire application lives behind 
.htaccess Auth.  Don't want the whole world to see it.  The problem is 
that to continue to develop/test I need to receive the responses from 
the remote system and the remote system won't change to do the auth.

So what I would like to do is continue to protect all the files in 
/webroot behind Auth except for one subdirectory, or I would like all 
users from www.foo.com to access all the file in /webroot/ and make 
everyone else authenticate.

I have been looking at the apache .htaccess stuff and haven't figured it 
out.  Please help.

Thanks,
Hans



From dcech at phpwerx.net  Thu Oct  6 10:21:23 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:21:23 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Apache htaccess auth
In-Reply-To: <43452C8E.5060900@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <43452C8E.5060900@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <434532E3.9000600@phpwerx.net>

Hans,

If all you need is access to one subdirectory, you can add an .htaccess 
file to that subdirectory with the following lines:

Allow from 'remote system ip'
Satisfy any

This will allow the remote system to access that subdirectory without 
auth, but still require auth for every other host, and for the rest of 
the site.

You may find these links helpful:

http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2004-May/009750.html
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/core.html#satisfy

Dan

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
> I know this might be off topic a bit but I can't figure it out and I am 
> confident NYPHP is the place for AMP answers.
> 
> I am developing an application that needs to receive http responses from 
> a remote system.  Currently, the entire application lives behind 
> .htaccess Auth.  Don't want the whole world to see it.  The problem is 
> that to continue to develop/test I need to receive the responses from 
> the remote system and the remote system won't change to do the auth.
> 
> So what I would like to do is continue to protect all the files in 
> /webroot behind Auth except for one subdirectory, or I would like all 
> users from www.foo.com to access all the file in /webroot/ and make 
> everyone else authenticate.
> 
> I have been looking at the apache .htaccess stuff and haven't figured it 
> out.  Please help.
> 
> Thanks,
> Hans


From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 11:14:00 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:14:00 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <3270-41147@sneakemail.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>
	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com> <43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>
	<3270-41147@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <330532b60510060814l6f6e715eg968a102c48bccd57@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/5/05, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
> Show me a "fully normalized" database supporting a web app, done close
> to schedule and budget. I double dog dare ya.

First find me a web app project that has a realistic schedule and
budget to begin with. I TRIPLE dog dare ya.

> I love database guys... as much as I love graphic designers. But I won't
> let either one tell me how to code ;-)

Then developers need to get off the minimalist caveman approach to
data modeling, and start getting themselves edumucated ;-)  Today's
web developer looks at databases like a server-side Excel spreadsheet.
Yuck.

-- Mitch


From lists at genoverly.net  Thu Oct  6 11:39:42 2005
From: lists at genoverly.net (michael)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:39:42 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510060814l6f6e715eg968a102c48bccd57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>
	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com> <43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>
	<3270-41147@sneakemail.com>
	<330532b60510060814l6f6e715eg968a102c48bccd57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051006113942.21651101@genoverly.com>

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:14:00 -0400
Mitch Pirtle <mitch.pirtle at gmail.com> wrote:

 
> Then developers need to get off the minimalist caveman approach to
> data modeling, and start getting themselves edumucated ;-)  Today's
> web developer looks at databases like a server-side Excel spreadsheet.
> Yuck.

To quote csnyder.. "Preach it brother!"

On smaller application development, the web app guy is probably the data
guy too.  When things grow out of hand, edumacation is vital.

Realistic normalization has been proven effective throughout the ages.  
If a developer has a problem writing SQL queries, ask the DBA for data
diagrams and meta-data.  Heck, they "may" even help you. Views and
stored procedures can be really helpful here.

If the app is for summary reporting (vs transactions), then decide on
some standard element and time dimensions and build a 'warehouse' or
'data mart' style denormalized database.  Again, the DBA can be helpful.

Maybe, if the NYPHP gods are listening.. this would be a good talk
topic.  That is, unless a local database user group gets there first
<grin>.

Great thread, BTW.

Michael


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Thu Oct  6 12:04:44 2005
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:04:44 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Apache htaccess auth
In-Reply-To: <434532E3.9000600@phpwerx.net>
References: <43452C8E.5060900@cyberxdesigns.com> <434532E3.9000600@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <43454B1C.1090809@cyberxdesigns.com>

Thanks Dan,  I obviously didn't look hard enough.

This works.
Hans



Dan Cech wrote:

>Hans,
>
>If all you need is access to one subdirectory, you can add an .htaccess 
>file to that subdirectory with the following lines:
>
>Allow from 'remote system ip'
>Satisfy any
>
>This will allow the remote system to access that subdirectory without 
>auth, but still require auth for every other host, and for the rest of 
>the site.
>
>You may find these links helpful:
>
>http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2004-May/009750.html
>http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/core.html#satisfy
>
>Dan
>
>Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>  
>
>>I know this might be off topic a bit but I can't figure it out and I am 
>>confident NYPHP is the place for AMP answers.
>>
>>I am developing an application that needs to receive http responses from 
>>a remote system.  Currently, the entire application lives behind 
>>.htaccess Auth.  Don't want the whole world to see it.  The problem is 
>>that to continue to develop/test I need to receive the responses from 
>>the remote system and the remote system won't change to do the auth.
>>
>>So what I would like to do is continue to protect all the files in 
>>/webroot behind Auth except for one subdirectory, or I would like all 
>>users from www.foo.com to access all the file in /webroot/ and make 
>>everyone else authenticate.
>>
>>I have been looking at the apache .htaccess stuff and haven't figured it 
>>out.  Please help.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Hans
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
>
>  
>


From jellicle at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 12:08:37 2005
From: jellicle at gmail.com (Michael Sims)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:08:37 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] int to ordinal function
Message-ID: <200510061208.38270.jellicle@gmail.com>


Does anyone have a function handy for converting numerals to the 
fully-alphabetic ordinal equivalent?

f(1) = "First"
f(2) = "Second"
f(3) = "Third"
f(24) = "Twenty-fourth"
etc.

It's easier to convert to the numeric ordinal (1st, 2nd, 3rd) but I prefer 
the all-alphabetic, especially if I don't have to write it myself.  :)

Michael Sims


From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 12:54:04 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:54:04 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] int to ordinal function
In-Reply-To: <200510061208.38270.jellicle@gmail.com>
References: <200510061208.38270.jellicle@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <330532b60510060954m1d799d5ci71e30c0952f93e25@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/6/05, Michael Sims <jellicle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a function handy for converting numerals to the
> fully-alphabetic ordinal equivalent?

Check pear.php.net, the package is called Numbers_Words:

http://pear.php.net/package/Numbers_Words

-- Mitch


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Oct  6 16:18:36 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:18:36 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510060814l6f6e715eg968a102c48bccd57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com>
	<43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>	<3270-41147@sneakemail.com>
	<330532b60510060814l6f6e715eg968a102c48bccd57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7097-58617@sneakemail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20051006/bfe7ef58/attachment.html>

From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Thu Oct  6 16:53:05 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:53:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <7097-58617@sneakemail.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com>	<43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>	<3270-41147@sneakemail.com>	<330532b60510060814l6f6e715eg968a102c48bccd57@mail.gmail.com>
	<7097-58617@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <43458EB1.1040808@polymerdb.org>

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From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Thu Oct  6 17:14:52 2005
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:14:52 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <7097-58617@sneakemail.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com>	<43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>	<3270-41147@sneakemail.com>	<330532b60510060814l6f6e715eg968a102c48bccd57@mail.gmail.com>
	<7097-58617@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <434593CC.8060307@cyberxdesigns.com>

John,

Why is it that you link to SEO-Fun but there is nothing there?

Hans



> Pheh. I knew should a gone for the triple right away.
> My upcoming course in Competitive Webmastering 
> <http://www.seo-fun.com> includes a session of budgets and 
> expectations.. very important stuff.
>
> -=john andrews
> http://www.seo-fun.com
>


From rolan at omnistep.com  Thu Oct  6 17:39:56 2005
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:39:56 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <434593CC.8060307@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com>	<43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>	<3270-41147@sneakemail.com>	<330532b60510060814l6f6e715eg968a102c48bccd57@mail.gmail.com>	<7097-58617@sneakemail.com>
	<434593CC.8060307@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <434599AC.9010508@omnistep.com>

The cobblers children have no shoes

~Rolan

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:

>John,
>
>Why is it that you link to SEO-Fun but there is nothing there?
>
>Hans
>
>  
>
>>P......... of budgets and 
>>expectations.. very important stuff.
>>
>>-=john andrews
>>http://www.seo-fun.com
>>    
>>


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Thu Oct  6 17:40:44 2005
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:40:44 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <3270-41147@sneakemail.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com>	<43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>
	<3270-41147@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <434599DC.8020404@tgaconnect.com>


> 
> Show me a "fully normalized" database supporting a web app, done close 
> to schedule and budget. I double dog dare ya. 

I know of two -- but they were conversions of existing databases,
which were already in pretty good shape. So maybe they don't count,
if you meant designed 'from scratch' for a web app.

...

> There is more than one way to normalize, because there are multiple ways 
> to define the data set. That's my point. In addressing the developers' 
> needs, the database design seems to come later. But of course we need a 
> solid database design to start; it has to be done first... hence the 
> recursive puzzle.But should we start with full normalized form? We would 
> never get development started. 

To address the developers' needs, the (physical) design typically does 
come (later) after the logical model is created. But, I don't know of 
anyone who advocates less than 3rd normal for a logical database design
(to be used in a relational DBMS).

After a few iterations the physical design can (and often is) 
denormalized from the logical model.

You can get your development started after your first 'cut' of a
physical design -- not "We would never get started."

"... should we start with a full normalized form?"

Yes.

-- 
T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Thu Oct  6 17:43:18 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:43:18 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com>	<43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com>	<3270-41147@sneakemail.com>	<330532b60510060814l6f6e715eg968a102c48bccd57@mail.gmail.com>	<7097-58617@sneakemail.com><434593CC.8060307@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<434599AC.9010508@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <0aaf01c5cabe$f7260c30$0319a8c0@ced>

The DBA's children have no information?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rolan Yang" <rolan at omnistep.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design


The cobblers children have no shoes

~Rolan

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:

>John,
>
>Why is it that you link to SEO-Fun but there is nothing there?
>
>Hans
>
>  
>
>>P......... of budgets and 
>>expectations.. very important stuff.
>>
>>-=john andrews
>>http://www.seo-fun.com
>>    
>>
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org



From ken at secdat.com  Thu Oct  6 17:51:29 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:51:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <3270-41147@sneakemail.com>
References: <OFEE0E9124.B9D9DB9D-ON85257090.0066D99B-85257090.00677421@us.ibm.com>	<4429-66439@sneakemail.com>
	<43430E63.4070707@tgaconnect.com> <3270-41147@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <32781.38.117.147.25.1128635489.squirrel@38.117.147.25>


> Tim Gales tgales-at-tgaconnect.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
>
>> It strikes me that normalization of data follows a strict path --first
>> normal, second normal, and so on.
>>
>>That is, there is not such a thing as  "more than one 'right way' " to
>> normalize data -- not even with Perl packages
>>
>>
>
> Show me a "fully normalized" database supporting a web app, done close
> to schedule and budget. I double dog dare ya.

How about ahead of schedule?  That's how ours go.  The trick is to know
well the disparate nature of both web and data, and have a tool that gives
each its due and creates the proper interface between them.  Using heavily
Object-Oriented techniques will not get you there, and may hold you back.

>
> I do NOT recommend de-normalizing. Dan's commments were on summary table
> built and managed by the dbms... and the coder now had to code to those
> instead of the db tables. That's great, IMHO, because it guarantees
> interity to the degree that the dbms can maintain it (presumably better
> than the developer can). I do believe there are multiple ways to
> normalize, because you have to select a base data unit around which you
> build your app (and normalize your database). Some hard-core database
> guys fallback on semantics here -- they assume there is no data except
> what is specified in the data model. Sure.. in that case, full norm is
> the only option. But I don't think it's a realistic (nor particularly
> helpful) perspective.

Not sure what you mean here.

I've found it easier to use a handful of plain-English terms. So when
talking to customers I don't talk about "models", it's more like "What do
you want to keep track of?"  Then its questions like, "will one price go
for all products in the category, or do separate items get separate
prices?"  These questions lead directly to table design and table design
drives the rest of the process.

<snip>

>
> In my view, you need to base that on experience, choosing data
> structures that permit the application to accomplish it's goals, while
> being normalized.

You choose data structures that accurately record what needs to be
recorded, the application is simply an interface to that data.

> You cannot have your cake and eat it, too. In other
> words, I prefer to keep the database theorists out of the kitchen.

Dare I say that's why you are not delivering on time or budget? (ducking)

It is true that you must determine who is "master" of the app, is it all
about the code, or all about the data?  If it is all about getting the
record-keeping down accurately, then you must insist on a proper database
design, then the application fits over the table structure like latex. 
Those who are more coder than db dude don't like this idea and want to
shape the database to the code -- bad idea.


>
> There is more than one way to normalize, because there are multiple ways
> to define the data set. That's my point. In addressing the developers'
> needs, the database design seems to come later. But of course we need a
> solid database design to start; it has to be done first... hence the
> recursive puzzle.But should we start with full normalized form? We would
> never get development started.

Let me ask about cost.  Is the recursive puzzle a problem because it is
expensive?  Does it yield the correct result?  Could it be that it would
not be a problem if it were cheaper?

>
> I love database guys... as much as I love graphic designers. But I won't
> let either one tell me how to code ;-)

I love coders, but I never let a coder take an architect's role.

>
> -=john andrews
> http://www.seo-fun.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Oct  6 22:08:26 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 22:08:26 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
Message-ID: <25846-72135@sneakemail.com>

>John,
>
>Why is it that you link to SEO-Fun but there is nothing there?
>
>

The better question would be, if you find nothing there, why do you
continue to click? ;-)

As for the discussion, we all seem to agree the project needs multiple
experts and due diligence to db design etc. I don't find much to disagree
with in the comments, except the practicality of it all. 

I am usually one of the sticklers for solid normalization on projects.
HOWEVER, I find most of the work for me is in getting the application's
future defined enough to be able to discuss that, while collaborators
(dba's included) want to lock n load. 

Of course an architect would make all the difference... that is the missing
piece. How many projects have an IA role assigned early on? 

From what I have seen this has been a helpful discussion for everyone
struggling with normalizing a db that supports a developing app. Valuable
contribution.

-=john andrews
http://www.seo-fun.com
http://www.privacydesk.com




Original Message:
-----------------
From: CED Consult-at-CovenantEDesign.com |nyphp dev/internal group use|
...
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:43:18 -0400
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design


The DBA's children have no information?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rolan Yang" <rolan at omnistep.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design


The cobblers children have no shoes

~Rolan

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:

>John,
>
>Why is it that you link to SEO-Fun but there is nothing there?
>
>Hans
>
>  
>
>>P......... of budgets and 
>>expectations.. very important stuff.
>>
>>-=john andrews
>>http://www.seo-fun.com
>>    
>>
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .




From stephen at musgrave.org  Fri Oct  7 13:48:57 2005
From: stephen at musgrave.org (Stephen Musgrave)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 13:48:57 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <20051004171654.55D4CA87DA@virtu.nyphp.org>
References: <20051004171654.55D4CA87DA@virtu.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <e6bbfd5f3c39f7340e9345cdf5da2655@musgrave.org>


> BTW, in the world of business objects, even the concept of a User 
> needs to
> be rethought.  I would do away with Users as a fundamental business 
> object
> and replace it with the more generic Person, and identify system Users 
> as a
> subset of the Person universe.  Users then become Persons who play the 
> Role,
> System User, in which additional sets of information are required such 
> as
> username, password, permissions, et cetera.

A-ha!  Even more normalization.  This is the way I have done it my 
system, btw.  There are "staff" users ... err PEOPLE".. and 
"participants" which have their own tables and then the USER table 
handles data that is required for those people to use the application.

Thanks for all the contributions to the thread - it has been very 
helpful!




From cliff at pinestream.com  Fri Oct  7 14:02:07 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 14:02:07 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
	toolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <e6bbfd5f3c39f7340e9345cdf5da2655@musgrave.org>
Message-ID: <004901c5cb69$3b45c540$0ba8a8c0@cliff>

Breaking up People into separate tables makes me think of a problem I am
struggling with and that's probably all too common. A product has a
price, right -- simple. Maybe not. The price could be fixed. It might be
x dollars per pound or some other unit. Maybe the price is even
non-linear.

So it seems like each price model should be a separate object and thus a
separate table. Right? And if so, it seems like it would be impossible
to get all product info in one query efficiently. Do I query the product
table to see what price model that product uses and then perform a 2nd
query? Do I join everything and see what price model "pops up?"

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Stephen Musgrave
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:49 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
toolfor MySQL/OS X)



> BTW, in the world of business objects, even the concept of a User
> needs to
> be rethought.  I would do away with Users as a fundamental business 
> object
> and replace it with the more generic Person, and identify system Users

> as a
> subset of the Person universe.  Users then become Persons who play the

> Role,
> System User, in which additional sets of information are required such

> as
> username, password, permissions, et cetera.

A-ha!  Even more normalization.  This is the way I have done it my 
system, btw.  There are "staff" users ... err PEOPLE".. and 
"participants" which have their own tables and then the USER table 
handles data that is required for those people to use the application.

Thanks for all the contributions to the thread - it has been very 
helpful!


_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org



From ken at secdat.com  Fri Oct  7 14:39:10 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 14:39:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
 toolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <004901c5cb69$3b45c540$0ba8a8c0@cliff>
References: <e6bbfd5f3c39f7340e9345cdf5da2655@musgrave.org>
	<004901c5cb69$3b45c540$0ba8a8c0@cliff>
Message-ID: <49221.38.117.147.25.1128710350.squirrel@38.117.147.25>


> Breaking up People into separate tables makes me think of a problem I am
> struggling with and that's probably all too common. A product has a
> price, right -- simple. Maybe not. The price could be fixed. It might be
> x dollars per pound or some other unit. Maybe the price is even
> non-linear.

THis is not as hard as it looks.  Just use units-of-measure.  We don't
think about it most of the time because it is simply "item", like "5
widgets".  But the UOM could be pounds, acres, whatever you want.

>
> So it seems like each price model should be a separate object and thus a
> separate table. Right? And if so, it seems like it would be impossible
> to get all product info in one query efficiently. Do I query the product
> table to see what price model that product uses and then perform a 2nd
> query? Do I join everything and see what price model "pops up?"

The trick is to use a series of exceptions, and a "resolution" view.

You start out with prices in the PRODUCT_CATEGORIES table.  You override
at the ITEMS table level.  Then you override at the SPECIALS table for
that item during a particular period in time.   Make up any other levels
that are appropriate.

The resolution uses the magic of NULLs and COALESCE to join the tables
together and pull out the price.

select coalesce(special.price,item.price,cat.price)
  from SPECIALS special
  JOIN ITEMS item
  JOIN CATEGORIES cat  blah blah blah


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Stephen Musgrave
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:49 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
> toolfor MySQL/OS X)
>
>
>
>> BTW, in the world of business objects, even the concept of a User
>> needs to
>> be rethought.  I would do away with Users as a fundamental business
>> object
>> and replace it with the more generic Person, and identify system Users
>
>> as a
>> subset of the Person universe.  Users then become Persons who play the
>
>> Role,
>> System User, in which additional sets of information are required such
>
>> as
>> username, password, permissions, et cetera.
>
> A-ha!  Even more normalization.  This is the way I have done it my
> system, btw.  There are "staff" users ... err PEOPLE".. and
> "participants" which have their own tables and then the USER table
> handles data that is required for those people to use the application.
>
> Thanks for all the contributions to the thread - it has been very
> helpful!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From dcech at phpwerx.net  Fri Oct  7 14:54:22 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:54:22 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
 toolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <49221.38.117.147.25.1128710350.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
References: <e6bbfd5f3c39f7340e9345cdf5da2655@musgrave.org>	<004901c5cb69$3b45c540$0ba8a8c0@cliff>
	<49221.38.117.147.25.1128710350.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
Message-ID: <4346C45E.40204@phpwerx.net>

Kenneth Downs wrote:
>> Breaking up People into separate tables makes me think of a problem I am
>> struggling with and that's probably all too common. A product has a
>> price, right -- simple. Maybe not. The price could be fixed. It might be
>> x dollars per pound or some other unit. Maybe the price is even
>> non-linear.
> 
> THis is not as hard as it looks.  Just use units-of-measure.  We don't
> think about it most of the time because it is simply "item", like "5
> widgets".  But the UOM could be pounds, acres, whatever you want.

Yes, this combined with the idea of multiple tables below would allow 
you to put together almost any pricing structure you wanted.

Recurring products are a whole 'nother kettle of fish though.

>> So it seems like each price model should be a separate object and thus a
>> separate table. Right? And if so, it seems like it would be impossible
>> to get all product info in one query efficiently. Do I query the product
>> table to see what price model that product uses and then perform a 2nd
>> query? Do I join everything and see what price model "pops up?"
> 
> The trick is to use a series of exceptions, and a "resolution" view.
> 
> You start out with prices in the PRODUCT_CATEGORIES table.  You override
> at the ITEMS table level.  Then you override at the SPECIALS table for
> that item during a particular period in time.   Make up any other levels
> that are appropriate.
> 
> The resolution uses the magic of NULLs and COALESCE to join the tables
> together and pull out the price.
> 
> select coalesce(special.price,item.price,cat.price)
>   from SPECIALS special
>   JOIN ITEMS item
>   JOIN CATEGORIES cat  blah blah blah

Good idea, though shouldn't the SQL be something more like:

SELECT coalesce(special.price,item.price,cat.price)
FROM CATEGORIES cat
LEFT JOIN ITEMS item ON item.cat_id=cat.cat_id
LEFT JOIN SPECIALS special ON special.item_id=item.item_id
WHERE blah blah blah

Dan

> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
>> On Behalf Of Stephen Musgrave
>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:49 PM
>> To: NYPHP Talk
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
>> toolfor MySQL/OS X)
>>
>>
>>
>>> BTW, in the world of business objects, even the concept of a User
>>> needs to
>>> be rethought.  I would do away with Users as a fundamental business
>>> object
>>> and replace it with the more generic Person, and identify system Users
>>> as a
>>> subset of the Person universe.  Users then become Persons who play the
>>> Role,
>>> System User, in which additional sets of information are required such
>>> as
>>> username, password, permissions, et cetera.
>> A-ha!  Even more normalization.  This is the way I have done it my
>> system, btw.  There are "staff" users ... err PEOPLE".. and
>> "participants" which have their own tables and then the USER table
>> handles data that is required for those people to use the application.
>>
>> Thanks for all the contributions to the thread - it has been very
>> helpful!


From ken at secdat.com  Fri Oct  7 15:00:07 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:00:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
 toolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <4346C45E.40204@phpwerx.net>
References: <e6bbfd5f3c39f7340e9345cdf5da2655@musgrave.org>	<004901c5cb69$3b45c540$0ba8a8c0@cliff>
	<49221.38.117.147.25.1128710350.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
	<4346C45E.40204@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <49303.38.117.147.25.1128711607.squirrel@38.117.147.25>


> Kenneth Downs wrote:
>> The resolution uses the magic of NULLs and COALESCE to join the tables
>> together and pull out the price.
>>
>> select coalesce(special.price,item.price,cat.price)
>>   from SPECIALS special
>>   JOIN ITEMS item
>>   JOIN CATEGORIES cat  blah blah blah
>
> Good idea, though shouldn't the SQL be something more like:
>
> SELECT coalesce(special.price,item.price,cat.price)
> FROM CATEGORIES cat
> LEFT JOIN ITEMS item ON item.cat_id=cat.cat_id
> LEFT JOIN SPECIALS special ON special.item_id=item.item_id
> WHERE blah blah blah

yup.

>
> Dan
>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
>>> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Stephen Musgrave
>>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:49 PM
>>> To: NYPHP Talk
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
>>> toolfor MySQL/OS X)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> BTW, in the world of business objects, even the concept of a User
>>>> needs to
>>>> be rethought.  I would do away with Users as a fundamental business
>>>> object
>>>> and replace it with the more generic Person, and identify system Users
>>>> as a
>>>> subset of the Person universe.  Users then become Persons who play the
>>>> Role,
>>>> System User, in which additional sets of information are required such
>>>> as
>>>> username, password, permissions, et cetera.
>>> A-ha!  Even more normalization.  This is the way I have done it my
>>> system, btw.  There are "staff" users ... err PEOPLE".. and
>>> "participants" which have their own tables and then the USER table
>>> handles data that is required for those people to use the application.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the contributions to the thread - it has been very
>>> helpful!
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From phil at bearingasset.com  Fri Oct  7 15:02:14 2005
From: phil at bearingasset.com (Phil Duffy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:02:14 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER
	Diagramtoolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <004901c5cb69$3b45c540$0ba8a8c0@cliff>
Message-ID: <20051007190222.41A76A87E9@virtu.nyphp.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Cliff Hirsch
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:02 PM
> To: 'NYPHP Talk'
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER
> Diagramtoolfor MySQL/OS X)
> 
> Breaking up People into separate tables makes me think of a problem I am
> struggling with and that's probably all too common. A product has a
> price, right -- simple. Maybe not. The price could be fixed. It might be
> x dollars per pound or some other unit. Maybe the price is even
> non-linear.
> 
> So it seems like each price model should be a separate object and thus a
> separate table. Right? And if so, it seems like it would be impossible
> to get all product info in one query efficiently. Do I query the product
> table to see what price model that product uses and then perform a 2nd
> query? Do I join everything and see what price model "pops up?"

Perhaps I have misunderstood this question, but to me a price is normally
not an entity but an attribute of an entity such as a product/service.  The
latter would have a table established, and the price might represent one
column in the table.

"Might" is the keyword for the price attribute, because pricing can get
quite complex.  In the simplest case, price would be applied to a constant
unit over the entire product/service table.  It gets a bit more complicated
when different pricing units apply against different products/services,
e.g., units for some products, pounds for others.  It then becomes necessary
to store the pricing unit as an attribute as well as the price.  Another
dimension of complexity is a pricing schedule, in which the price is
dependent upon the amount, for example, or upon the location of the buyer.
Then a reference to the price schedule might be stored in the
product/service table as well as information about the pricing unit.
Obviously the above does not exhaust pricing schemes, which are limited only
by the imagination of marketing people.

It seems to me that pricing schedules, as opposed to prices, would be
considered entities since they have their own attributes.

It would then depend upon the goal of the query which route was taken, but
for applying prices to products/services sold, the first table access would
be to the product/service table and the subsequent access to the specific
price schedule, and perhaps to the specific row in that schedule that
applies to the product/service sold.

Incidentally, be careful about the identification of the entity.  Are you
dealing with pure products, pure services or a hybrid (and does it really
matter)?  Software vendors, for example, sell licenses (theoretically a
service?) and support (a pure service).  Automobile dealers sell a physical
product, but also maintenance service.  Do you mix products and services in
the same table (generally my preference although I would distinguish the
product from the service) or create separate tables?  Typically the pricing
algorithms can cover both so there is a simplification reason for combining
them into one table.

HTH.

Phil





From cliff at pinestream.com  Fri Oct  7 15:11:04 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:11:04 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was:
	ERDiagramtoolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <20051007190222.41A76A87E9@virtu.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <005701c5cb72$dd562dd0$0ba8a8c0@cliff>

Coalesce is a great function and the solutions proposed are really
excellent. Many thanks.

I think Phil hit the nail on the head with the statement, "which are
limited only by the imagination of marketing people." It's not today's
imagination that causes me angst -- ok, a bit. Its what curveball I'll
be hit with in six months that my architecture didn't anticipate. 

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Phil Duffy
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 3:02 PM
To: 'NYPHP Talk'
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was:
ERDiagramtoolfor MySQL/OS X)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org 
> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Cliff Hirsch
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:02 PM
> To: 'NYPHP Talk'
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER
> Diagramtoolfor MySQL/OS X)
> 
> Breaking up People into separate tables makes me think of a problem I 
> am struggling with and that's probably all too common. A product has a

> price, right -- simple. Maybe not. The price could be fixed. It might 
> be x dollars per pound or some other unit. Maybe the price is even 
> non-linear.
> 
> So it seems like each price model should be a separate object and thus

> a separate table. Right? And if so, it seems like it would be 
> impossible to get all product info in one query efficiently. Do I 
> query the product table to see what price model that product uses and 
> then perform a 2nd query? Do I join everything and see what price 
> model "pops up?"

Perhaps I have misunderstood this question, but to me a price is
normally not an entity but an attribute of an entity such as a
product/service.  The latter would have a table established, and the
price might represent one column in the table.

"Might" is the keyword for the price attribute, because pricing can get
quite complex.  In the simplest case, price would be applied to a
constant unit over the entire product/service table.  It gets a bit more
complicated when different pricing units apply against different
products/services, e.g., units for some products, pounds for others.  It
then becomes necessary to store the pricing unit as an attribute as well
as the price.  Another dimension of complexity is a pricing schedule, in
which the price is dependent upon the amount, for example, or upon the
location of the buyer. Then a reference to the price schedule might be
stored in the product/service table as well as information about the
pricing unit. Obviously the above does not exhaust pricing schemes,
which are limited only by the imagination of marketing people.

It seems to me that pricing schedules, as opposed to prices, would be
considered entities since they have their own attributes.

It would then depend upon the goal of the query which route was taken,
but for applying prices to products/services sold, the first table
access would be to the product/service table and the subsequent access
to the specific price schedule, and perhaps to the specific row in that
schedule that applies to the product/service sold.

Incidentally, be careful about the identification of the entity.  Are
you dealing with pure products, pure services or a hybrid (and does it
really matter)?  Software vendors, for example, sell licenses
(theoretically a
service?) and support (a pure service).  Automobile dealers sell a
physical product, but also maintenance service.  Do you mix products and
services in the same table (generally my preference although I would
distinguish the product from the service) or create separate tables?
Typically the pricing algorithms can cover both so there is a
simplification reason for combining them into one table.

HTH.
Phil
_____________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org



From greg.rundlett at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 22:27:08 2005
From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:27:08 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Validating/cleaning/scrubbing
In-Reply-To: <43411FEB.1030705@email.smith.edu>
References: <3a2a0d6a56ce33fcaed8fb6b6b98b96a@musgrave.org>
	<b76252690510010923ye493734p2d999f874594cfa6@mail.gmail.com>
	<433EBBD9.1010707@php.net> <43411FEB.1030705@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <5e2aaca40510071927v19f41994w11577be3494badd3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/3/05, Aaron Fischer <agfische at email.smith.edu> wrote:
> Chris Shiflett wrote:
>
> >Stephen Musgrave wrote:
> > > Given Tuesday's presentation by Chris Shiflett (thanks, Chris!)
> >
> >Thanks - I hope it was helpful. :-)
> >
> >
>
> Unfortunately I wasn't able to make it down for the presentation.  Will
> there be an audio recording posted and/or online presentation materials
> to view?
>


http://brainbulb.com/talks

Thanks Chris for a great presentation yesterday in Boston, and for
posting it (PHP Security Audit HOWTO).

- Greg Rundlett


From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Sat Oct  8 22:32:44 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 22:32:44 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
References: <3a2a0d6a56ce33fcaed8fb6b6b98b96a@musgrave.org><b76252690510010923ye493734p2d999f874594cfa6@mail.gmail.com><433EBBD9.1010707@php.net>
	<43411FEB.1030705@email.smith.edu>
	<5e2aaca40510071927v19f41994w11577be3494badd3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006701c5cc79$bb28ce90$0319a8c0@ced>

Anyone headed out to the conf.?  I have been so busy with preparing for my
first child and preping the Albany Medical College DBs that I can't. But
looking at the line-up it seems like it's gonna be an awesome edifying
experience.



From stephen at musgrave.org  Mon Oct 10 16:11:10 2005
From: stephen at musgrave.org (Stephen Musgrave)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:11:10 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Regular expression for Google-like search
Message-ID: <1741203e4da9c121add11e73213fcd98@musgrave.org>

I searched the web and was shocked not to find the answer to this.... 
so I bring it to "the list".

I am building content management tool, within which I want people to be 
able to search for content.  I want to use the same query string rules 
as Google does - specifically the quote to group words into a unified 
string.

For example:

"the color purple" movie soundtrack

"the color purple" would need to be an exact match, ignoring the spaces 
as OR characters.  The spaces outside the quotes would still be treated 
like an OR character.

I am using this code so far:

$search_string = $_REQUEST['search_string'];
$search_terms = array();
$search_terms = preg_split('/"/', $search_string, -1, 
PREG_SPLIT_NO_EMPTY);

And it results in:

Array ( [0] => the color purple [1] => movie soundtrack )

But I want it to result in:

Array ( [0] => the color purple [1] => movie [2] => soundtrack )

I feel like I'm a couple keystrokes away... any help is much 
appreciated.

Thanks,

Stephen



From nyphp at n0p.net  Mon Oct 10 16:33:54 2005
From: nyphp at n0p.net (Flavio daCosta)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:33:54 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Regular expression for Google-like search
In-Reply-To: <1741203e4da9c121add11e73213fcd98@musgrave.org>
References: <1741203e4da9c121add11e73213fcd98@musgrave.org>
Message-ID: <434AD032.6000403@n0p.net>

How about:

$search_string = '"the color purple" movie soundtrack';
$search_terms = array();
$search_terms = preg_match_all ('/"[^"]+"|\w+/', $search_string, $matches);

print_r ($matches);


Array
(
    [0] => Array
        (
            [0] => "the color purple"
            [1] => movie
            [2] => soundtrack
        )

)


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Oct 10 16:34:51 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:34:51 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Regular expression for Google-like search
In-Reply-To: <1741203e4da9c121add11e73213fcd98@musgrave.org>
References: <1741203e4da9c121add11e73213fcd98@musgrave.org>
Message-ID: <434AD06B.3010900@phpwerx.net>

Stephen,

For this kind of a problem it may be simpler (and possibly more 
efficient considering the small size of the strings) to write a simple 
parser that goes through the string and builds up the query that way, 
detecting whether you are inside a quoted string or not and behaving 
appropriately as well as potentially processing AND OR NOT - (a,b,c), 
etc constructs.

It seems like this could be a very worthwhile project, and more than 
likely there is already something out there I'm not aware of to solve 
this common problem.

You might also want to try digging into the source of some of the more 
mature wiki or cms applications for inspiration.

Dan

Stephen Musgrave wrote:
> I searched the web and was shocked not to find the answer to this.... 
> so I bring it to "the list".
> 
> I am building content management tool, within which I want people to be 
> able to search for content.  I want to use the same query string rules 
> as Google does - specifically the quote to group words into a unified 
> string.
> 
> For example:
> 
> "the color purple" movie soundtrack
> 
> "the color purple" would need to be an exact match, ignoring the spaces 
> as OR characters.  The spaces outside the quotes would still be treated 
> like an OR character.
> 
> I am using this code so far:
> 
> $search_string = $_REQUEST['search_string'];
> $search_terms = array();
> $search_terms = preg_split('/"/', $search_string, -1, 
> PREG_SPLIT_NO_EMPTY);
> 
> And it results in:
> 
> Array ( [0] => the color purple [1] => movie soundtrack )
> 
> But I want it to result in:
> 
> Array ( [0] => the color purple [1] => movie [2] => soundtrack )
> 
> I feel like I'm a couple keystrokes away... any help is much 
> appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Stephen



From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Oct 10 18:33:10 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:33:10 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Loop next/previous offset boundaries in Arrays
In-Reply-To: <000a01c5ca6c$a2b7cb40$0ba8a8c0@cliff>
Message-ID: <000101c5cdea$9ce14ee0$6501a8c0@MZ>


Hi Cliff,

Cliff Hirsch wrote on Thursday, October 06, 2005 7:54 AM:
> In a loop, a common function seems to be comparing a current array value
> with the next or prior array value. Seems easy, except for the first and
> last loops, which generate undefined offset errors. Is there a "clean"
> way to get around this other than testing for the first or last loop
> value, which generates a lot of extra code.

When I need to do non-trivial tasks in a loop, I typically use a for loop,
rather than a foreach().  It often has some key advantages.  Granted,
there's an added step for associative arrays, but if I know that an array
needs some complex processing, I always try to use an numericly indexed
array.

Anyway, I do things like this, for example:

$ArrayCount = count($somearray);
for( $i = 0; $i < $ArrayCount; ++$i )
{
  if( $i === 0 )
    echo 'The first element';

  if( $i === ($ArrayCount-1) )
    echo 'The last element'
}

By using the numeric index, it makes determining where you are in the array
fast and straightforward.


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Oct 10 19:58:29 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:58:29 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
In-Reply-To: <006701c5cc79$bb28ce90$0319a8c0@ced>
Message-ID: <008f01c5cdf6$84962b10$6501a8c0@MZ>



CED wrote on Saturday, October 08, 2005 10:33 PM:
> Anyone headed out to the conf.?  I have been so busy with preparing for my
> first child and preping the Albany Medical College DBs that I can't. But
> looking at the line-up it seems like it's gonna be an awesome edifying
> experience.

Myself and Chris will be heading out.  Anyone else?


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From adam at trachtenberg.com  Mon Oct 10 20:01:30 2005
From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:01:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
In-Reply-To: <008f01c5cdf6$84962b10$6501a8c0@MZ>
References: <008f01c5cdf6$84962b10$6501a8c0@MZ>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102000530.31620@miranda.org>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Hans Zaunere wrote:

> Myself and Chris will be heading out.  Anyone else?

I will be there, but now I am there. You can come by and heckle me in
the eBay/PayPal Developers Program booth.

-adam

-- 
adam at trachtenberg.com | http://www.trachtenberg.com
author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook"
avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today!


From rotsen at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 20:02:49 2005
From: rotsen at gmail.com (Nestor)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:02:49 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102000530.31620@miranda.org>
References: <008f01c5cdf6$84962b10$6501a8c0@MZ>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102000530.31620@miranda.org>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60510101702h78f69933sfcc2a82efc699557@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/10/05, Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg <adam at trachtenberg.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Hans Zaunere wrote:
>
> > Myself and Chris will be heading out.  Anyone else?
>
> I will be there, but now I am there. You can come by and heckle me in
> the eBay/PayPal Developers Program booth.
>
> -adam
>
> --
> adam at trachtenberg.com | http://www.trachtenberg.com
> author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook"
> avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today!
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
Does it cost money to go there.  I mean my commute from San Diego is not as
afar as you guys's

Nestor :-)


From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Oct 10 20:09:19 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:09:19 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <4341F958.7000707@iifwp.org>
Message-ID: <009701c5cdf8$07a7d430$6501a8c0@MZ>



Allen Shaw wrote on Monday, October 03, 2005 11:39 PM:
> CED wrote:
> 
> > http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm
> 
> That's a great list of tools. Something else very interesting to me is
> this note at the end of the page:
> 
> > *A short note about about Data Modelling and Database Design ...*
> > 
> > Data modelling and database design are two very different activities.
> > 
> > For data modelling, the question you are asking is :
> > 1) What does the world being modelled look like ?
> >   In particular, you are looking for similarities between things.
> >   Then you identify a 'super-type' of thing which may have sub-types.
> >    For example, Corporate Customers and Personal Customers
> > 
> >   If, for example, supplier contacts are conceptually different things
> >  from customer contacts, then the answer is that they should be
> >  modelled separately. On the other hand, if they are merely sub-sets of
> > the same thing, then treat them as the same thing. 
> > 
> > 2) For database design, you are answering a different question:-
> >   how can I efficiently design a database that will support the
> >   functions of proposed application or Web Site. The key task here is
> >   to identify similarities between entities so that you can integrate
> >   them into the same table, usually with a 'Type' indicator. For
> >   example, a Customer table, which combines all attributes of both
> >   Corporate and Personal Customers. As a result, it is possible to
> > spend a great deal of time breaking things out when creating a Data
> > Model, and then collapsing them back together when designing the
> > corresponding database.   
> > 
> What interest me here is the writer's understanding that when I'm
> programming an actual application it's in my best interest to
> de-normalize the data model, aiming for fewer tables than my data model
> would have indicated.  I'm assuming this person has good reason for what
> he's saying, but it's something I've never thought of or heard before?
> 
> Can anyone suggest reasons why it's better to have fewer tables, or to
> try and combine different types of objects into the same table?  Surely
> it's something to do with better performance (fewer joins, simpler
> queries), right?  Is this a common principle of design that I haven't
> learned yet?

Normalization is often one of the most misunderstood aspects of relational
databases.  Of course, it's what makes a relational database relational, and
we're all taught that you're not worth a cent unless you only work in the
5th normalized form.

Well, perhaps if you're a mathematician, then that's correct.  The reality
is that over-normalization can kill a project just as much as
under-normalization.  Don't forget - at least from the old SQL books I
learned from - why normalization was being preached.  "Don't have duplicate
data!" was often the mantra.  If you had more than one guy named "John",
then you need to have a table of first names, with a lookup table relating
first names with the other data you're storing.  Seems rediculous, right?

The practice of heavy normalization was based on some old, bygone, concerns,
namely "storage is expensive."  Add in academic chest-beating, and pretty
soon you have a table for every letter of the alphabet and look-up tables to
match.

As I think we generally find, with the abundance of hardware resources,
normalization is reduced to only an element of good design.  Sure,
performance can still be a factor, but let's consider the performance of an
entire system, and not just what's happening in the database.

Not considering the overhead involved in joining tables (and thus resolving
disparate blocks across the drive(s)), there's overhead in the application,
and in a big way.  First is the performance of dealing with duplicate rows -
you know, the throwing out of wasted rows from a one-many relationships.
That not only incurs network traffic - which is often the slowest part of a
modern internet system - it also incurs processing and memory waste on the
application server.

And what about the overhead of development itself?  Large complex queries,
sub-queries, joins, and SQL query management in any language can make for
unmaintable and tedious code.

So it's a balancing act - as always.  The degree of normalization is
generally more of an art than a science, and the "correct" amount is
different for every project, and for every database architect.  Get three
database architects, and you'll get four recommendations for the correct
schema.


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com





From adam at trachtenberg.com  Mon Oct 10 20:26:44 2005
From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:26:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60510101702h78f69933sfcc2a82efc699557@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008f01c5cdf6$84962b10$6501a8c0@MZ>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102000530.31620@miranda.org>
	<a304e2d60510101702h78f69933sfcc2a82efc699557@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102025470.31620@miranda.org>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Nestor wrote:

> Does it cost money to go there.  I mean my commute from San Diego is not as
> afar as you guys's

Around $900 +/-. Fees are linked to from this page.

http://guest.cvent.com/EVENTS/Info/Summary.aspx?e=a72c7fa1-43cb-4e9f-8b8e-a8b0ed99b197

-adam

-- 
adam at trachtenberg.com | http://www.trachtenberg.com
author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook"
avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today!


From kushner at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 20:31:44 2005
From: kushner at gmail.com (Daniel Kushner)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:31:44 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60510101702h78f69933sfcc2a82efc699557@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008f01c5cdf6$84962b10$6501a8c0@MZ>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102000530.31620@miranda.org>
	<a304e2d60510101702h78f69933sfcc2a82efc699557@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7ac626ed0510101731l47f518d3yeca059b4873e87ea@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> Does it cost money to go there. I mean my commute from San Diego is not as
> afar as you guys's
>
> Nestor :-)
> _______________________________________________


As always, we can always get NYPHP'ers great discounts. Send me an email (
daniel at zend.com) if you're interested.

-Daniel
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From rotsen at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 20:37:09 2005
From: rotsen at gmail.com (Nestor)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:37:09 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102025470.31620@miranda.org>
References: <008f01c5cdf6$84962b10$6501a8c0@MZ>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102000530.31620@miranda.org>
	<a304e2d60510101702h78f69933sfcc2a82efc699557@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102025470.31620@miranda.org>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60510101737g13fe97daw147e87964e59731@mail.gmail.com>

That is too bad.  I stop being a php programmer about 5 month ago and
I am back doing C programming but I miss working with PHP.  AT $900 I
do not think I will be going to this conference.  You guys have fun in
sunny southern cal.

Nestor :-)

On 10/10/05, Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg <adam at trachtenberg.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Nestor wrote:
>
> > Does it cost money to go there.  I mean my commute from San Diego is not as
> > afar as you guys's
>
> Around $900 +/-. Fees are linked to from this page.
>
> http://guest.cvent.com/EVENTS/Info/Summary.aspx?e=a72c7fa1-43cb-4e9f-8b8e-a8b0ed99b197
>
> -adam
>
> --
> adam at trachtenberg.com | http://www.trachtenberg.com
> author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook"
> avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today!
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Oct 10 20:38:27 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:38:27 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] fun with proc_open
In-Reply-To: <43444122.5000108@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <009e01c5cdfc$196a59a0$6501a8c0@MZ>



Dan Cech wrote on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 5:10 PM:
> Hi all,
> 
> Firstly, apologies for the long email, I couldn't think of a less
> verbose way to describe the issues I'm experiencing.
> 
> I'm in the midst of writing a little program for executing long-running
> processes in the background from php and monitoring their output as they
> run.
> 
> The problem I'm running into is that when I execute a process using
> proc_open and try to read any output from stdout and stderr I am running
> into some odd behavior.
> 
> This only seems to happen under windows, running the same script on my
> debian server works as expected.
> 
> The first read from stdout is fine, but then it doesn't get any more
> output from stdout until the end of the script.
> 
> Is there some issue with using stdout and stderr together in this way
> that I don't know about?
> 
> My test code looks like this:
> 
> <?php
> 
> // allow script to run for 5 minutes
> set_time_limit(300);
> 
> // maximum length of blocks to read from process
> define('FREAD_LENGTH',1024*10);
> 
> $cmd = 'php '.dirname(__FILE__).DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR.'sleep.php';
> 
> $descriptorspec = array(
>    1 => array('pipe','w'), // stdout
>    2 => array('pipe','w'), // stderr
> );
> 
> $process = proc_open($cmd,$descriptorspec,$pipes);
> 
> if (!is_resource($process)) {
>    echo 'failed'."\n";
>    exit(1);
> }
> 
> // don't block process stdout or stderr
> stream_set_blocking($pipes[1],0);
> stream_set_blocking($pipes[2],0);
> 
> // don't buffer stdout or stderr
> stream_set_write_buffer($pipes[1],0);
> stream_set_write_buffer($pipes[2],0);
> 
> while (true) {
>    // read process stdout
>    $stdout = fread($pipes[1],FREAD_LENGTH);
>    if (strlen($stdout) > 0) {
>      echo 'stdout:'. $stdout;
>      flush();
>    }
> 
>    // read process stderr
>    $stderr = fread($pipes[2],FREAD_LENGTH);
>    if (strlen($stderr) > 0) {
>      echo 'stderr:'. $stderr;
>      flush();
>    }
> 
>    // end when both pipes are closed
>    if (feof($pipes[1]) && feof($pipes[2])) {
>      break;
>    }
> 
>    // wait for more output
>    sleep(1);
> }
> 
> // close process stdout and stderr
> fclose($pipes[1]);
> fclose($pipes[2]);
> 
> // grab exit code
> $exitcode = proc_close($process);
> 
> echo 'exitcode:'. $exitcode ."\n";
> 
> // end of script
> 
> sleep.php is a simple script that outputs some data:
> 
> <?php
> 
> ob_implicit_flush();
> 
> echo('started'."\n");
> 
> for ($i = 1;$i <= 10;$i++) {
> 	sleep(1);
> 	echo($i."\n");
> }
> 
> fwrite(STDERR,'done'."\n");
> 
> // end of script
> 
> Running the first script from command line or web browser should output:
> 
> stdout:started
> stdout:1
> stdout:2
> stdout:3
> stdout:4
> stdout:5
> stdout:6
> stdout:7
> stdout:8
> stdout:9
> stdout:10
> stderr:done
> exitcode:0
> 
> On windows I'm seeing:
> 
> stdout:started
> stderr:done
> stdout:1
> 2
> 3
> 4
> 5
> 6
> 7
> 8
> 9
> 10
> exitcode:0
> 
> I've managed to get the same functionality using popen and redirecting
> stderr to a fifo or tempfile, but proc_open seems like the cleaner
> solution if I can get it to work the way I want.
> 
> Any ideas?

Since it works under Linux, it's probably a subtle difference in the
buffering behavior on Windows.  Changing the fread() calls to fgets() seems
to work, but unfortunately I can't say what's different on Windows that
makes this a factor.  It's likely blocking/buffering behavior.

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From adam at trachtenberg.com  Mon Oct 10 20:39:15 2005
From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
In-Reply-To: <7ac626ed0510101731l47f518d3yeca059b4873e87ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008f01c5cdf6$84962b10$6501a8c0@MZ>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102000530.31620@miranda.org>
	<a304e2d60510101702h78f69933sfcc2a82efc699557@mail.gmail.com>
	<7ac626ed0510101731l47f518d3yeca059b4873e87ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0510102038320.31620@miranda.org>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Daniel Kushner wrote:

> As always, we can always get NYPHP'ers great discounts. Send me an email (
> daniel at zend.com) if you're interested.

Yea. I forgot about the NYPHP discount. This will be a very
interesting PHP conference, as there are lots of people talking on
more than the usual set of topics.

-adam

-- 
adam at trachtenberg.com | http://www.trachtenberg.com
author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook"
avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today!
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org

From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Oct 10 20:41:06 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:41:06 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Any success/failures with PHP/Java bridge?
In-Reply-To: <4D2FAD9B00577645932AD7ED5FECA24591B16F@mail>
Message-ID: <009f01c5cdfc$78296a80$6501a8c0@MZ>



Fan, Wellington wrote on Monday, October 03, 2005 4:44 PM:
> Listies,
> 
> I will need to use a PHP/Java bridge soon and am looking for stories of
> horror and delight. Anyone have any experiences?
> 
> I've heard some differing reports: it seems that there is some confusion
> regarding the version of PHP required. I've heard that you *must* have 5,
> and elsewhere it seems people are using 4.3.x with no problems.
> 
> The PHP/Java bridge lives at:
> http://php-java-bridge.sourceforge.net/
> 
> 
> And a mention that it works with PHP 4.3.2:
> http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.java.php#53184


I haven't worked with this in a long time, so I'd be interested to hear your
experiences.  Just as an educated guess, I'd think that PHP 5 would be
better, considering the fundamental OO architecture changes.  While it may
work in PHP 4, you'll probably see more memory usage, which of course may or
may not be important, depending on your application.



---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Oct 10 20:42:48 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:42:48 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
In-Reply-To: <7ac626ed0510101731l47f518d3yeca059b4873e87ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a601c5cdfc$b5198b50$6501a8c0@MZ>



Daniel Kushner wrote on Monday, October 10, 2005 8:32 PM:
> 	Does it cost money to go there.  I mean my commute from San Diego is
not
> 	as afar as you guys's
> 
> 	Nestor :-)
> 	_______________________________________________
> 
> 
> As always, we can always get NYPHP'ers great discounts. Send me an email
> (daniel at zend.com) if you're interested.

Thanks Daniel - looking forward to the show.  Aside from the plane ticket,
the conference is certainly worth it.

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From hans.zaunere at nyphp.com  Mon Oct 10 20:49:34 2005
From: hans.zaunere at nyphp.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:49:34 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: MySQL AB Welcomes Oracle to the FOSS Database
	Market
Message-ID: <00a701c5cdfd$a78e7bc0$6501a8c0@MZ>


Interesting developments in the database world...


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com



Kaj Arn? wrote on Friday, October 07, 2005 8:34 PM:
> Dear MySQL User,
> 
> MySQL AB and the Free / Open Source database market today received some
> unexpected recognition by Oracle, through their acquisition of Innobase
> Oy. 
> 
> So what does this have to do with MySQL?
> 
> Well, Innobase is the provider of the popular InnoDB Storage Engine in
> MySQL. One of the things our users appreciate about MySQL is its unique
> pluggable storage engine architecture. You have the flexibility to
> choose from number of storage engines including MyISAM, Memory, Merge,
> Cluster and InnoDB. And with MySQL 5.0, we added the new Archive and
> Federated storage engines.
> 
> Just like the rest of MySQL Server and its Storage Engines, InnoDB is
> released under the GPL. With this license, our users have complete
> freedom to use, develop, modify the code base as they wish. That is why
> MySQL has chose the GPL: to protect the freedom that users value in free
> / open source software.
> 
> In their press release on
> http://www.oracle.com/corporate/press/2005_oct/inno.html
> Oracle states:
> 
> "InnoDB is not a standalone database product: it is distributed as a
> part of the MySQL database. InnoDB's contractual relationship with MySQL
> comes up for renewal next year. Oracle fully expects to negotiate an
> extension of that relationship."
> 
> We have also issued a press release on
> http://www.mysql.com/news-and-events/news/article_968.html
> where M?rten Mickos, CEO of MySQL, states:
> 
> "This announcement represents further validation of the open source
> movement. The beauty of open source software and the GPL license is
> freedom. As with all MySQL code, InnoDB is provided under the GPL
> license, meaning that users have complete freedom to use, develop, and
> modify the code base. We are pleased to see even broader industry
> acceptance of open source database technology. This also means that
> database developers now have even greater flexibility to use MySQL and
> Oracle in the same environment."
> 
> For you as a MySQL user, I want to stress a couple of further points of
> the "don't worry" type:
> 
> * we remain committed to support our existing clients and users, using
> InnoDB and other storage engines
> * we will continue to provide development and bug-fix resources for
> InnoDB users
> * we continue to sell to our prospects and woo new users, using InnoDB
> and other storage engines
> * there will be no impact on MySQL 5.0, scheduled for GA in Q4, 2005
> * we will continue to include InnoDB in future releases of MySQL
> * Innobase Oy is a separate company ? and is not a part of MySQL AB;
> Oracle has no ownership of MySQL AB
> * we will work with Oracle as a normal business partner
> 
> Go MySQL!
> 
> Kaj Arn?
> VP Community Relations
> MySQL AB




From andrew at plexpod.com  Mon Oct 10 20:51:16 2005
From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:51:16 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
In-Reply-To: <008f01c5cdf6$84962b10$6501a8c0@MZ>
References: <006701c5cc79$bb28ce90$0319a8c0@ced>
	<008f01c5cdf6$84962b10$6501a8c0@MZ>
Message-ID: <20051011005115.GU1448@desario.homelinux.net>

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 07:58:29PM -0400, Hans Zaunere wrote:
> CED wrote on Saturday, October 08, 2005 10:33 PM:
> > Anyone headed out to the conf.?  I have been so busy with preparing for my
> > first child and preping the Albany Medical College DBs that I can't. But
> > looking at the line-up it seems like it's gonna be an awesome edifying
> > experience.
> 
> Myself and Chris will be heading out.  Anyone else?

I'll be there too.

Andrew

-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Oct 10 23:11:30 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:11:30 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <009701c5cdf8$07a7d430$6501a8c0@MZ>
References: <009701c5cdf8$07a7d430$6501a8c0@MZ>
Message-ID: <30644-86917@sneakemail.com>

Hans Zaunere lists-at-zaunere.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> Normalization is often one of the most misunderstood aspects of relational
>
>databases.  Of course, it's what makes a relational database relational, and
>we're all taught that you're not worth a cent unless you only work in the
>5th normalized form.
>
>Well, perhaps if you're a mathematician, then that's correct.  The reality
>is that over-normalization can kill a project just as much as
>under-normalization.  Don't forget - at least from the old SQL books I
>learned from - why normalization was being preached.  "Don't have duplicate
>data!" was often the mantra.  If you had more than one guy named "John",
>then you need to have a table of first names, with a lookup table relating
>first names with the other data you're storing.  Seems rediculous, right?
>
>The practice of heavy normalization was based on some old, bygone, concerns,
>namely "storage is expensive."  Add in academic chest-beating, and pretty
>soon you have a table for every letter of the alphabet and look-up tables to
>match.
>
>As I think we generally find, with the abundance of hardware resources,
>normalization is reduced to only an element of good design.  Sure,
>performance can still be a factor, but let's consider the performance of an
>entire system, and not just what's happening in the database.
>
>Not considering the overhead involved in joining tables (and thus resolving
>disparate blocks across the drive(s)), there's overhead in the application,
>and in a big way.  First is the performance of dealing with duplicate rows -
>you know, the throwing out of wasted rows from a one-many relationships.
>That not only incurs network traffic - which is often the slowest part of a
>modern internet system - it also incurs processing and memory waste on the
>application server.
>
>And what about the overhead of development itself?  Large complex queries,
>sub-queries, joins, and SQL query management in any language can make for
>unmaintable and tedious code.
>
>So it's a balancing act - as always.  The degree of normalization is
>generally more of an art than a science, and the "correct" amount is
>different for every project, and for every database architect.  Get three
>database architects, and you'll get four recommendations for the correct
>schema.
>
>
>---
>Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
>   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com
>

Yeah. What he said.


-=john andrews
http://www.seo-fun.com



From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 01:59:42 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:59:42 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
	for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <009701c5cdf8$07a7d430$6501a8c0@MZ>
References: <4341F958.7000707@iifwp.org> <009701c5cdf8$07a7d430$6501a8c0@MZ>
Message-ID: <330532b60510102259o11a7f9c1qb3877653f8e30d55@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/10/05, Hans Zaunere <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:
>
> So it's a balancing act - as always.  The degree of normalization is
> generally more of an art than a science, and the "correct" amount is
> different for every project, and for every database architect.  Get three
> database architects, and you'll get four recommendations for the correct
> schema.

Uh. Hmm.

*spacemonkey counts with both fingers and toes

-- Mitch


From suzerain at suzerain.com  Tue Oct 11 02:42:50 2005
From: suzerain at suzerain.com (Marc Antony Vose)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 02:42:50 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] length of form element names?
In-Reply-To: <1741203e4da9c121add11e73213fcd98@musgrave.org>
References: <1741203e4da9c121add11e73213fcd98@musgrave.org>
Message-ID: <p06230900bf710def2019@[192.168.1.44]>

Hi there:

I searched around, and did not find an answer.

In particular, I was looking at 
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#control-name

...and also just general Google searching.

So my question is this:

How long can the name of a form element be?  Is there a limit?

I have a script which is a few layers deep into auto-generating forms 
based on information in a CSS file, and it's inserting some arcane 
codes in that are adding up to make really long form elements.

Nothing's breaking, but I'm concerned that there might be a problem 
in the future, since it could conceivably construct some pretty long 
form field names.

Cheers,

Marc


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Tue Oct 11 07:05:08 2005
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:05:08 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510102259o11a7f9c1qb3877653f8e30d55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4341F958.7000707@iifwp.org> <009701c5cdf8$07a7d430$6501a8c0@MZ>
	<330532b60510102259o11a7f9c1qb3877653f8e30d55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <434B9C64.1020807@tgaconnect.com>

Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> On 10/10/05, Hans Zaunere <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:
> 
>>So it's a balancing act - as always.  The degree of normalization is
>>generally more of an art than a science, and the "correct" amount is
>>different for every project, and for every database architect.  Get three
>>database architects, and you'll get four recommendations for the correct
>>schema.
> 
> 
> Uh. Hmm.
> 
> *spacemonkey counts with both fingers and toes
> 

It would seem that you should be able to count the
most common degrees of normalization on one hand...
( very few people take things past 5th normal)

Normalization is basically simplifying, if you are
to believe E.F. Codd:

"For this reason (and others to be cited below) the possibility of 
eliminating nonsimple domains appears worth investigating. [see note 4] 
There is, in fact, a very simple elimination procedure, which we shall 
call normalization."

http://www.acm.org/classics/nov95/s1p4.html

There may be a number of ways to simplify a certain schema, and
there may be many opinions about what constitutes a 'good' schema --
but normalization itself is pretty much 'cut and dried'.

Further, if you define the degree of normalization needed as that
degree which will protect the data from (unexpected) anomalies, the
degree of normalization needed is not a matter of opinion either.

A useful guide for the steps involved in normalizing data can be
found at:

http://www.gslis.utexas.edu/~wyllys/DMPAMaterials/normstep.html

-- 
T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Tue Oct 11 08:06:41 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:06:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram tool
 for MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <30644-86917@sneakemail.com>
References: <009701c5cdf8$07a7d430$6501a8c0@MZ> <30644-86917@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <434BAAD1.4000607@polymerdb.org>

inforequest wrote:
> Hans Zaunere lists-at-zaunere.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
> 
> 
[snip]
>>
>>---
>>Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
>>  www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com
>>
> 
> 
> Yeah. What he said.
> 
> 
> -=john andrews
> http://www.seo-fun.com
> 

Great - thanks John. :)

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From andrew at plexpod.com  Tue Oct 11 08:24:48 2005
From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:24:48 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] length of form element names?
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf710def2019@[192.168.1.44]>
References: <1741203e4da9c121add11e73213fcd98@musgrave.org>
	<p06230900bf710def2019@[192.168.1.44]>
Message-ID: <20051011122446.GW1448@desario.homelinux.net>

On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 02:42:50AM -0400, Marc Antony Vose wrote:
> How long can the name of a form element be?  Is there a limit?

I can't say I've run into a limit, nor do I know of one on the _name_ of
a form element.   But there are limits to the length of URLs.  I believe
the documented limit is 1024 chars, but most browsers will do much more.
Anyway, my point is if you have lots of long form element names in one
form, don't use a GET for sure!  Use a POST.

HTH,
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879


From smanes at magpie.com  Tue Oct 11 08:36:40 2005
From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:36:40 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: MySQL AB Welcomes Oracle to the FOSS Database
 Market
In-Reply-To: <00a701c5cdfd$a78e7bc0$6501a8c0@MZ>
References: <00a701c5cdfd$a78e7bc0$6501a8c0@MZ>
Message-ID: <434BB1D8.5020303@magpie.com>

Hans Zaunere wrote:
> Interesting developments in the database world...

And interesting discussion about it on the PostgreSQL list:

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2005-10/threads.php#00401


From phil at bearingasset.com  Tue Oct 11 09:05:20 2005
From: phil at bearingasset.com (Phil Duffy)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:05:20 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
	toolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <009701c5cdf8$07a7d430$6501a8c0@MZ>
Message-ID: <20051011130535.92D9FA86EA@virtu.nyphp.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Hans Zaunere
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 7:09 PM
> To: 'NYPHP Talk'
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
> toolfor MySQL/OS X)
> Normalization is often one of the most misunderstood aspects of relational
> databases.  Of course, it's what makes a relational database relational,
> and
> we're all taught that you're not worth a cent unless you only work in the
> 5th normalized form.
> 
> Well, perhaps if you're a mathematician, then that's correct.  The reality
> is that over-normalization can kill a project just as much as
> under-normalization.  Don't forget - at least from the old SQL books I
> learned from - why normalization was being preached.  "Don't have
> duplicate
> data!" was often the mantra.  If you had more than one guy named "John",
> then you need to have a table of first names, with a lookup table relating
> first names with the other data you're storing.  Seems rediculous, right?
> 
> The practice of heavy normalization was based on some old, bygone,
> concerns,
> namely "storage is expensive."  Add in academic chest-beating, and pretty
> soon you have a table for every letter of the alphabet and look-up tables
> to
> match.
> 
> As I think we generally find, with the abundance of hardware resources,
> normalization is reduced to only an element of good design.  Sure,
> performance can still be a factor, but let's consider the performance of
> an
> entire system, and not just what's happening in the database.

<snip>

Hans,

While I agree with your general message, I have a reservation about the
"storage is expensive" specific example.  Having been around since before
Boole and Babbage, I can't even recall in the "old days" when developers
were slavish about "storage is expensive".  We sought opportunities to
reduce storage, when that was practical, but only in very specialized
applications did we go out of our way to conserve disk storage.  The primary
issue was data consistency and software maintainability.  Lack of
normalization created situations which encouraged users to create
inconsistent data.  For example, consider a pre-relational system in
healthcare that recognized two 'pseudo-entities', physicians and patients
(pseudo in the sense we now recognize these as roles as opposed to
fundamental entities).  Each pseudo-entity had its own basic record to
contain address, telephone number and other attributes.  That worked as long
as the physician never became a patient.  However, a change to a
physician/patient's record created an inconsistency in the changed
attribute, e.g., the address.

The second issue was software maintenance.  There were situations where one
record's structure might be modified while the other was not.

I believe it was a natural progression from normalization of databases to
object-oriented design, because the latter encouraged all interactions with
the database to be performed in a single module.  I know of at least one
situation in healthcare where that limitation in the existing systems nearly
killed a patient.

But your principle point is that database design (and object design by
extension in my opinion) is still an art form.  Both database and object
design should look upon the 'rules' as significant guidelines.  Understand
when to bypass these rules, and document those reasons (conditions may
change in the future and others will probably have to clean up the
situation).

I liked your example of normalizing the string 'John', which underlines the
absurdity of over-normalization.  For me, appropriate normalization begins
with the recognition of the fundamental entities in a system and a
distinction between real world-modeled entities (e.g., a Person) as opposed
to system-internal entities (e.g., a web page).  If I come to a branch in
the road at which normalization or de-normalization both offer advantages, I
am most likely to take the normalization branch, make a mental note and if I
later discover that creates a significant performance issue that can't be
otherwise corrected, I would de-normalize that area of the system
intentionally (documenting my reasons and the implementation).

It would be interesting to see if others have approached normalization
guidelines differently.  I won't claim the above is the only way to do
database design - it is still an art form after all.

Phil





From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 15:49:32 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:49:32 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: MySQL AB Welcomes Oracle to the FOSS Database
	Market
In-Reply-To: <434BB1D8.5020303@magpie.com>
References: <00a701c5cdfd$a78e7bc0$6501a8c0@MZ> <434BB1D8.5020303@magpie.com>
Message-ID: <330532b60510111249i3109c5bg4b69aaa01313f8e3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/05, Steve Manes <smanes at magpie.com> wrote:
>
> And interesting discussion about it on the PostgreSQL list:
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2005-10/threads.php#00401

Hey I recognize a couple names over there. Hans, is what I stated the
position that MySQL is in, with regards to incorporating a 3rd party
GPL library into a dual-licensed work?

-- Mitch, been talking to waaaaay too many lawyers lately ;-)


From lists at zaunere.com  Tue Oct 11 21:27:58 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:27:58 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: MySQL AB Welcomes Oracle to the FOSS
	DatabaseMarket
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510111249i3109c5bg4b69aaa01313f8e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201c5cecc$2eaeb920$6601a8c0@MZ>



Mitch Pirtle wrote on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 3:50 PM:
> On 10/11/05, Steve Manes <smanes at magpie.com> wrote:
> > 
> > And interesting discussion about it on the PostgreSQL list:
> > 
> > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2005-10/threads.php#00401
> 
> Hey I recognize a couple names over there. Hans, is what I stated the
> position that MySQL is in, with regards to incorporating a 3rd party
> GPL library into a dual-licensed work?

I'm not sure I want to go down this road :)

> -- Mitch, been talking to waaaaay too many lawyers lately ;-)

Hans, mumbling something about copyright ownership and deciding on the
license





From lists at zaunere.com  Tue Oct 11 22:13:59 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:13:59 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER
	Diagramtoolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <20051011130535.92D9FA86EA@virtu.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <000301c5ced2$9c4b9420$6601a8c0@MZ>



Phil Duffy wrote on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 9:05 AM:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
> > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Hans Zaunere Sent:
> > Monday, October 10, 2005 7:09 PM 
> > To: 'NYPHP Talk'
> > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER Diagram
> > toolfor MySQL/OS X) Normalization is often one of the most
> > misunderstood aspects of relational databases.  Of course, it's what
> > makes a relational database relational, and we're all taught that
> > you're not worth a cent unless you only work in the 5th normalized
> > form.  
> > 
> > Well, perhaps if you're a mathematician, then that's correct.  The
> > reality is that over-normalization can kill a project just as much as
> > under-normalization.  Don't forget - at least from the old SQL books I
> > learned from - why normalization was being preached.  "Don't have
> > duplicate data!" was often the mantra.  If you had more than one guy
> > named "John", then you need to have a table of first names, with a
> > lookup table relating first names with the other data you're storing. 
> > Seems rediculous, right? 
> > 
> > The practice of heavy normalization was based on some old, bygone,
> > concerns, namely "storage is expensive."  Add in academic
> > chest-beating, and pretty soon you have a table for every letter of the
> > alphabet and look-up tables to match.
> > 
> > As I think we generally find, with the abundance of hardware resources,
> > normalization is reduced to only an element of good design.  Sure,
> > performance can still be a factor, but let's consider the performance
> > of an entire system, and not just what's happening in the database.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Hans,
> 
> While I agree with your general message, I have a reservation about the
> "storage is expensive" specific example.  Having been around since before
> Boole and Babbage, I can't even recall in the "old days" when developers
> were slavish about "storage is expensive".  We sought opportunities to
> reduce storage, when that was practical, but only in very specialized
> applications did we go out of our way to conserve disk storage.  The
> primary issue was data consistency and software maintainability.  Lack of
> normalization created situations which encouraged users to create
> inconsistent data.  For example, consider a pre-relational system in
> healthcare that recognized two 'pseudo-entities', physicians and patients
> (pseudo in the sense we now recognize these as roles as opposed to
> fundamental entities).  Each pseudo-entity had its own basic record to
> contain address, telephone number and other attributes.  That worked as
> long as the physician never became a patient.  However, a change to a
> physician/patient's record created an inconsistency in the changed
> attribute, e.g., the address.
> 
> The second issue was software maintenance.  There were situations where
> one record's structure might be modified while the other was not.

Good points, and I think you raise an important issue, namely, normalization
as a mechanism for separation and isolation.

> I believe it was a natural progression from normalization of databases to
> object-oriented design, because the latter encouraged all interactions
> with the database to be performed in a single module.  I know of at least
> one situation in healthcare where that limitation in the existing systems
> nearly killed a patient.

Ah hah!  Separation and isolation.  There is always the consideration of
what perspective we're looking at, and at the end, who is saying
normalization.  I think the storage reasoning has come from - at least in my
experience when browsing academic SQL references - a largely idealistic way
of storing data.  Perhaps storage was or wasn't really expensive, but it was
neat to not store redundant data, as the first few normal-forms try to
address:

http://www.datamodel.org/NormalizationRules.html

That's from the data-structures-are-cool-and-I'm-not-an-implementer
department, which begins down the road of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization#Sixth_normal_form
http://www.bkent.net/Doc/simple5.htm

and eventually to:

http://www.nerdbooks.com/item.php?id=1558608559

Not a bad thing, but not something I'd be ready to recommend to a customer
:)

>From a developer's perspective, however, the more important issue, as you
point out, is a good, clean, representation of data.  And, as hardware
resources become cheaper, that might mean that it's OK to have
redundant/repeating data, and still be correctly normalized and
architectured.

> But your principle point is that database design (and object design by
> extension in my opinion) is still an art form.  Both database and object
> design should look upon the 'rules' as significant guidelines.  Understand
> when to bypass these rules, and document those reasons (conditions may
> change in the future and others will probably have to clean up the
> situation).

Exactly - it's a balance between what works in a sensible way, and how
you're supposed to do it.  As some of the links above mention, they're
discussing "relational database theory."  A lot of the work these guys do is
great, and the basis for much of the technology we have today.  But as
architects and implementers on the front-lines, it's our job to find that
happy place between the theory and practical, cost effective software.

> I liked your example of normalizing the string 'John', which underlines
> the absurdity of over-normalization.  For me, appropriate normalization
> begins with the recognition of the fundamental entities in a system and a
> distinction between real world-modeled entities (e.g., a Person) as
> opposed to system-internal entities (e.g., a web page).  If I come to a
> branch in the road at which normalization or de-normalization both offer
> advantages, I am most likely to take the normalization branch, make a
> mental note and if I later discover that creates a significant
> performance issue that can't be otherwise corrected, I would de-normalize
> that area of the system intentionally (documenting my reasons and the
> implementation). 
> 
> It would be interesting to see if others have approached normalization
> guidelines differently.  I won't claim the above is the only way to do
> database design - it is still an art form after all.

I approach it in much the same way, however often take de-normalization if
all other things are equal.  Recognition of fundamental entities is really
the driver behind normalization in most environments I come across, and
without it, the total system, in terms of code/DB writing, style, and
maintainability, system performance, and future system changes by external
developers, is usually happier with a bit more data consolidation.


Good talk Phil,

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Oct 11 22:38:43 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:38:43 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was:
 ER	Diagramtoolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <000301c5ced2$9c4b9420$6601a8c0@MZ>
References: <000301c5ced2$9c4b9420$6601a8c0@MZ>
Message-ID: <25564-25892@sneakemail.com>

There seems to be enough interest in this thread, perhaps we should hash 
out a real-world example, using it to make points in the discussion?

My first suggestion would be a retail system for a shopping cart, with 
qty, prices, and taxes. I think that an open discussion of the proper 
database design, inlight of an eventual application, might be 
very....educational?

I would be happy to volunteer time to re-post some of the more technical 
posts, for the less-advanced PHPer 9or at least do my best).

Comments?

-=john andrews
http://www.seo-fun.com
Competitive Webmastering 101





From mikko.rantalainen at peda.net  Wed Oct 12 04:43:02 2005
From: mikko.rantalainen at peda.net (Mikko Rantalainen)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:43:02 +0300
Subject: [nycphp-talk] length of form element names?
In-Reply-To: <20051011122446.GW1448@desario.homelinux.net>
References: <1741203e4da9c121add11e73213fcd98@musgrave.org>	<p06230900bf710def2019@[192.168.1.44]>
	<20051011122446.GW1448@desario.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <434CCC96.6070104@peda.net>

Andrew Yochum wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 02:42:50AM -0400, Marc Antony Vose wrote:
> 
>>How long can the name of a form element be?  Is there a limit?
> 
> I can't say I've run into a limit, nor do I know of one on the _name_ of
> a form element.   But there are limits to the length of URLs.  I believe
> the documented limit is 1024 chars, but most browsers will do much more.
> Anyway, my point is if you have lots of long form element names in one
> form, don't use a GET for sure!  Use a POST.

I googled for "rfc url length" and got RFC 2397 as an answer 
(http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2397.html). It says that HTML 2.0 has 
following limits:

maximum length of literal attribute value (for href of a or action 
of post or value of input type hidden) is 1024 bytes (LITLEN)

maximum combined length of all attribute values of a single tag is 
2100 bytes (ATTSPLEN)

maximum length for a single tag in source code is 2100 bytes (TAGLEN)

[as a side note, limit of 2100 bytes for a tag limits maximum 
combined attribute length to less than 2100 bytes in real life.]

**

Fortunately, no current user agent has such a low limits. HTML 4.01 
says (http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/conform.html#conformance):

"A user agent should avoid imposing arbitrary length limits on 
attribute value literals (see the section on capacities in the SGML 
Declaration). For introductory information on SGML attributes, 
please consult the section on attribute definitions."

HTML 4.01 SGML Declaration 
(http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/sgml/sgmldecl.html#h-20.1) has 
following part:

   ATTCNT   60      -- increased --
   ATTSPLEN 65536   -- These are the largest values --
   LITLEN   65536   -- permitted in the declaration --
   NAMELEN  65536   -- Avoid fixed limits in actual --
   TAGLEN   65536

and the declaration includes a message that says
"These are the largest values permitted in the declaration. Avoid 
fixed limits in actual implementations of HTML UA's."

RFC 2616 doesn't set any limits for the lenght of URL.

As for the real world limits,

"Internet Explorer has a maximum uniform resource locator (URL) 
length of 2,083 characters [...] If you are using the GET method, 
you are limited to a maximum of 2,048 characters (minus the number 
of characters in the actual path, of course)." 
(http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q208427).

-- 
Mikko


From phil at bearingasset.com  Wed Oct 12 09:56:49 2005
From: phil at bearingasset.com (Phil Duffy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:56:49 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was:
	ER	Diagramtoolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <25564-25892@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <20051012135655.562A5A85F0@virtu.nyphp.org>

John,

Good suggestion.  I'll be glad to redo my comments so they fit within a
format accepted by the group.  Perhaps one way to start something like this
would be to outline 'chapters' of the discussion, particularly if we would
be dealing with practical examples.  I think it is wise to limit the
examples to an application such as a shopping cart because the subject would
be immense otherwise.

Phil

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of inforequest
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 9:39 PM
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER
> Diagramtoolfor MySQL/OS X)
> 
> There seems to be enough interest in this thread, perhaps we should hash
> out a real-world example, using it to make points in the discussion?
> 
> My first suggestion would be a retail system for a shopping cart, with
> qty, prices, and taxes. I think that an open discussion of the proper
> database design, inlight of an eventual application, might be
> very....educational?
> 
> I would be happy to volunteer time to re-post some of the more technical
> posts, for the less-advanced PHPer 9or at least do my best).
> 
> Comments?
> 
> -=john andrews
> http://www.seo-fun.com
> Competitive Webmastering 101
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org






From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Wed Oct 12 09:57:24 2005
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:57:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] data modelling vs. db design (was: ER
 Diagramtoolfor MySQL/OS X)
In-Reply-To: <25564-25892@sneakemail.com>
References: <000301c5ced2$9c4b9420$6601a8c0@MZ> <25564-25892@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510120954400.27071@emra.pair.com>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, inforequest wrote:

> There seems to be enough interest in this thread, perhaps we should hash
> out a real-world example, using it to make points in the discussion?
>
> My first suggestion would be a retail system for a shopping cart, with
> qty, prices, and taxes. I think that an open discussion of the proper
> database design, inlight of an eventual application, might be
> very....educational?
>
> I would be happy to volunteer time to re-post some of the more technical
> posts, for the less-advanced PHPer 9or at least do my best).
>
> Comments?


I'll buy him a round of whatever he's drinking.

This has been one of the most interesting (read: exquisitely geeky) NYPHP
threads of 2005, imho.

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/


From jeff at geeksociety.com  Wed Oct 12 11:42:22 2005
From: jeff at geeksociety.com (Jeffrey O. Stevison)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:42:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
Message-ID: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>

Is there a way to set a timeout value for a system("ls -l") call?  If  
the ls command hangs for at least 5 secs I want to term the call and  
have some return value that indicates the process has termed.

Jeff




From sailer at bnl.gov  Wed Oct 12 11:46:08 2005
From: sailer at bnl.gov (Tim Sailer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:46:08 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
In-Reply-To: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
References: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
Message-ID: <20051012154608.GB3974@bnl.gov>

On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 10:42:22AM -0500, Jeffrey O. Stevison wrote:
> Is there a way to set a timeout value for a system("ls -l") call?  If  
> the ls command hangs for at least 5 secs I want to term the call and  
> have some return value that indicates the process has termed.

Not that I've found. I've been using the $dirhandle=opendir('xx');
$filename=readdir($dirhandle); method of picking out files.

Tim

-- 
Tim Sailer <sailer at bnl.gov> 
Information and Special Technologies Program
Office of CounterIntelligence 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  (631) 344-3001


From stephen at musgrave.org  Wed Oct 12 12:15:54 2005
From: stephen at musgrave.org (Stephen Musgrave)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:15:54 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Regular expression for Google-like search
In-Reply-To: <434AD032.6000403@n0p.net>
References: <1741203e4da9c121add11e73213fcd98@musgrave.org>
	<434AD032.6000403@n0p.net>
Message-ID: <ca405e81a79bd3bcabec0356b81f6385@musgrave.org>

Great!

Thanks for the push!

On Oct 10, 2005, at 4:33 PM, Flavio daCosta wrote:

> How about:
>
> $search_string = '"the color purple" movie soundtrack';
> $search_terms = array();
> $search_terms = preg_match_all ('/"[^"]+"|\w+/', $search_string, 
> $matches);
>
> print_r ($matches);
>
>
> Array
> (
>     [0] => Array
>         (
>             [0] => "the color purple"
>             [1] => movie
>             [2] => soundtrack
>         )
>
> )
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
>



From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Wed Oct 12 12:15:54 2005
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:15:54 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
In-Reply-To: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
References: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
Message-ID: <434D36BA.7030705@tgaconnect.com>

Jeffrey O. Stevison wrote:
> Is there a way to set a timeout value for a system("ls -l") call?  If  
> the ls command hangs for at least 5 secs I want to term the call and  
> have some return value that indicates the process has termed.

Did you try ' set_time_limit()' ?

-- 
T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Wed Oct 12 12:18:28 2005
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:18:28 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
In-Reply-To: <434D36BA.7030705@tgaconnect.com>
References: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
	<434D36BA.7030705@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <434D3754.50009@tgaconnect.com>

Tim Gales wrote:
> Jeffrey O. Stevison wrote:
> 
>>Is there a way to set a timeout value for a system("ls -l") call?  If  
>>the ls command hangs for at least 5 secs I want to term the call and  
>>have some return value that indicates the process has termed.
> 
> 
> Did you try ' set_time_limit()' ?
> 
oh I see that:

"Any time spent on activity that happens outside the execution of the 
script such as system calls using system(), stream operations, database 
queries, etc. is not included when determining the maximum time that the 
script has been running."

--nevermind


-- 
T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From jeff at geeksociety.com  Wed Oct 12 12:25:25 2005
From: jeff at geeksociety.com (Jeffrey O. Stevison)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:25:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
In-Reply-To: <20051012154608.GB3974@bnl.gov>
References: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
	<20051012154608.GB3974@bnl.gov>
Message-ID: <B124E6F8-2433-4531-844A-A762B3AF634D@geeksociety.com>

I'm more trying to know when that exact command fails rather than any  
output from the command itself.

Jeff

On Oct 12, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Tim Sailer wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 10:42:22AM -0500, Jeffrey O. Stevison wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to set a timeout value for a system("ls -l") call?  If
>> the ls command hangs for at least 5 secs I want to term the call and
>> have some return value that indicates the process has termed.
>>
>
> Not that I've found. I've been using the $dirhandle=opendir('xx');
> $filename=readdir($dirhandle); method of picking out files.
>


From smanes at magpie.com  Wed Oct 12 12:41:55 2005
From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:41:55 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
In-Reply-To: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
References: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
Message-ID: <434D3CD3.3070601@magpie.com>

Jeffrey O. Stevison wrote:
> Is there a way to set a timeout value for a system("ls -l") call?  If  
> the ls command hangs for at least 5 secs I want to term the call and  
> have some return value that indicates the process has termed.

I've never tried it with PHP but I used external process timers in C 
programs by setting a function on the SIG_ALRM signal.  The function 
would send a kill to the PID of the child process when alarm() timed out.

You might find what you need here:

   http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.pcntl-signal.php


From andrew at plexpod.com  Wed Oct 12 12:45:34 2005
From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:45:34 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
In-Reply-To: <B124E6F8-2433-4531-844A-A762B3AF634D@geeksociety.com>
References: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
	<20051012154608.GB3974@bnl.gov>
	<B124E6F8-2433-4531-844A-A762B3AF634D@geeksociety.com>
Message-ID: <20051012164534.GI1448@desario.homelinux.net>

On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 11:25:25AM -0500, Jeffrey O. Stevison wrote:
> I'm more trying to know when that exact command fails rather than any  
> output from the command itself.

Try prefacing it with the "time" command:
    http://linux.ctyme.com/man/man3414.htm

HTH,
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879


From jeff at geeksociety.com  Wed Oct 12 14:15:19 2005
From: jeff at geeksociety.com (Jeffrey O. Stevison)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:15:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
In-Reply-To: <20051012164534.GI1448@desario.homelinux.net>
References: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
	<20051012154608.GB3974@bnl.gov>
	<B124E6F8-2433-4531-844A-A762B3AF634D@geeksociety.com>
	<20051012164534.GI1448@desario.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <629F9D15-DA78-4A05-B048-9896C66C3839@geeksociety.com>

But if the command hangs, the only thing that the time command will  
do is record how long the program is 'executing' or not for that  
matter.  I need to term the offensive command and return a code that  
this has happened.  The reason being I don't want to wait for the  
system to time out the command as it takes too long to time out.  I  
would know in a matter of seconds rather than the systems minutes  
whether the command is hung or not.

Jeffrey O. Stevison

On Oct 12, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Andrew Yochum wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 11:25:25AM -0500, Jeffrey O. Stevison wrote:
>
>> I'm more trying to know when that exact command fails rather than any
>> output from the command itself.
>>
>
> Try prefacing it with the "time" command:
>     http://linux.ctyme.com/man/man3414.htm


From andrew at plexpod.com  Wed Oct 12 15:28:10 2005
From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:28:10 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
In-Reply-To: <629F9D15-DA78-4A05-B048-9896C66C3839@geeksociety.com>
References: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
	<20051012154608.GB3974@bnl.gov>
	<B124E6F8-2433-4531-844A-A762B3AF634D@geeksociety.com>
	<20051012164534.GI1448@desario.homelinux.net>
	<629F9D15-DA78-4A05-B048-9896C66C3839@geeksociety.com>
Message-ID: <20051012192810.GA29855@desario.homelinux.net>

On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 01:15:19PM -0500, Jeffrey O. Stevison wrote:
> But if the command hangs, the only thing that the time command will  
> do is record how long the program is 'executing' or not for that  
> matter.  I need to term the offensive command and return a code that  
> this has happened.  The reason being I don't want to wait for the  
> system to time out the command as it takes too long to time out.  I  
> would know in a matter of seconds rather than the systems minutes  
> whether the command is hung or not.

Gotcha.

One method might be to use the pcntl_* functions to fork a child, exec the "ls
-la" and wait for the child to exit using a non-blocking waitpid in a loop,
killing the proc if it takes to long or moving on to other business when it
returns.  

HTH,
Andrew
-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879


From enunez at tiaa-cref.org  Wed Oct 12 17:08:01 2005
From: enunez at tiaa-cref.org (Nunez, Eddy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:08:01 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
Message-ID: <33DFD788D44E404CB92B90176DEC061A6DAFEF@NYCPDMSXMB06.ad.tiaa-cref.org>


Fork a child ?  pcntl function calls ??  what if you're running on a webserver,
you're going to fork a huge application just to do a "ls -l" ???

It's always good to have this knowledge on hand but ask yourself do I
really need a bazooka to kill a mouse?

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Yochum
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 3:28 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout


On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 01:15:19PM -0500, Jeffrey O. Stevison wrote:
> But if the command hangs, the only thing that the time command will  
> do is record how long the program is 'executing' or not for that  
> matter.  I need to term the offensive command and return a code that  
> this has happened.  The reason being I don't want to wait for the  
> system to time out the command as it takes too long to time out.  I  
> would know in a matter of seconds rather than the systems minutes  
> whether the command is hung or not.

Gotcha.

One method might be to use the pcntl_* functions to fork a child, exec the "ls
-la" and wait for the child to exit using a non-blocking waitpid in a loop,
killing the proc if it takes to long or moving on to other business when it
returns.  

HTH,
Andrew
-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org


**************************************************************
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**************************************************************



From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 17:44:39 2005
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:44:39 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] CaliPHornia
In-Reply-To: <006701c5cc79$bb28ce90$0319a8c0@ced>
References: <3a2a0d6a56ce33fcaed8fb6b6b98b96a@musgrave.org>
	<b76252690510010923ye493734p2d999f874594cfa6@mail.gmail.com>
	<433EBBD9.1010707@php.net> <43411FEB.1030705@email.smith.edu>
	<5e2aaca40510071927v19f41994w11577be3494badd3@mail.gmail.com>
	<006701c5cc79$bb28ce90$0319a8c0@ced>
Message-ID: <4b1887110510121444k40186ad6ydc8438564b0d04fc@mail.gmail.com>

I'm seriously considering attending after reading this thread. I had
been tossing it around in my mind for quite a while, and with Dan's
supercool NYPHP discount, I just might make the plunge. Thanks for
rallying the troops.


From andrew at plexpod.com  Wed Oct 12 17:44:05 2005
From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:44:05 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
In-Reply-To: <33DFD788D44E404CB92B90176DEC061A6DAFEF@NYCPDMSXMB06.ad.tiaa-cref.org>
References: <33DFD788D44E404CB92B90176DEC061A6DAFEF@NYCPDMSXMB06.ad.tiaa-cref.org>
Message-ID: <20051012214405.GC29855@desario.homelinux.net>

On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 05:08:01PM -0400, Nunez, Eddy wrote:
> 
> Fork a child ?  pcntl function calls ??  what if you're running on a webserver,
> you're going to fork a huge application just to do a "ls -l" ???
> 
> It's always good to have this knowledge on hand but ask yourself do I
> really need a bazooka to kill a mouse?

Very good point. You should know what is really doing behind the scenes.

However, I *suspect* Jeffrey was not really finding that "ls -l" was
timing out, but rather something proprietary for which he substituted
something common for public conumption.  If it is really "ls" then,
there is more to the problem then he is stating.

Andrew

-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879


From lists at zaunere.com  Wed Oct 12 22:42:20 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:42:20 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] system() call timeout
In-Reply-To: <5B644D95-A5D9-4895-A8D8-11CBD4475FB4@geeksociety.com>
Message-ID: <000601c5cf9f$bc7d38c0$6501a8c0@MZ>



Jeffrey O. Stevison wrote on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:42 AM:
> Is there a way to set a timeout value for a system("ls -l") call?  If
> the ls command hangs for at least 5 secs I want to term the call and
> have some return value that indicates the process has termed.

I've never tested this for this type of use, but perhaps proc_open() or
popen() could help.  You'd get some streams, which you could then set
timeouts on for reading.  It might be a little tricky to code, and may not
even work, but could be worth a shot.

The real question, however, is why an ls is taking so long.  If the same ls
doesn't take long in the shell, then it's likely some other issue in the PHP
application.


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com





From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 08:17:36 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:17:36 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - PhpPatterns.com
In-Reply-To: <8d9a4280050827055346349e93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a4280050827055346349e93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510130517va7ecd8fkd625e7c9709c327f@mail.gmail.com>

again can anyone get to this site? I still have not been able to reach this
site and i cannot see it just dying, it was pretty popular ;)

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From greg.rundlett at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 08:31:43 2005
From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:31:43 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - PhpPatterns.com
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800510130517va7ecd8fkd625e7c9709c327f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a4280050827055346349e93@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800510130517va7ecd8fkd625e7c9709c327f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e2aaca40510130531q5d1cfc9t43f3b856cb502ad4@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/13/05, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> again can anyone get to this site?  I still have not been able to reach this
> site and i cannot see it just dying, it was pretty popular ;)
>

The site is run by Harry Fuecks.  I don't know Harry personally, so I
can't tell you what he is up to now, but it may be a case of 'RL'.[1] 
I too would like to see it come back.

As luck would have it, at about the same time that phppatterns.com
went off-air, Sourceforge made changes to their system which killed
his (docuwiki) website for the popular JPSpan (AJAX) project[2]

[1] http://www.retrologic.com/jargon/R/RL.html
[2] http://jpspan.sourceforge.net/wiki/doku.php


> --
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
>
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> 1-802-671-2021
>  codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
>


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Thu Oct 13 08:34:41 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:34:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - PhpPatterns.com
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800510130517va7ecd8fkd625e7c9709c327f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a4280050827055346349e93@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800510130517va7ecd8fkd625e7c9709c327f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <434E5461.40708@polymerdb.org>

Joseph Crawford wrote:
> again can anyone get to this site?  I still have not been able to reach 
> this site and i cannot see it just dying, it was pretty popular ;)

Hi Joseph,

Not sure if you've seen this thread on SitePoint - it ends with hopeful 
comments from Harry Fuecks (the site's creator) as of a couple of weeks ago:
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296849

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From hertso at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 13 13:48:24 2005
From: hertso at yahoo.com (gault herbertson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] how to draw tables
Message-ID: <20051013174824.59867.qmail@web61325.mail.yahoo.com>

im new at preproccessor and i need help on how to draw tables with php and fill in a number of fields . thanks 
gault herbertson

		
---------------------------------
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From store at sewfastseweasy.com  Thu Oct 13 13:49:22 2005
From: store at sewfastseweasy.com (Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:49:22 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Programmer Needed
Message-ID: <000f01c5d01e$72182b30$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>

We are looking for the following.
A PHP coder with experience developing ecommerce sites, especially in a
shared hosting environment. Must have strong *nix skills. Must know
MySQL. Moderate to advanced Javascript and CSS. Some experience with
mod_rewrite helpful.

Must work well with understanding and modifying existing scripts. Must
have experience with PHP's cURL functions. Experience with cron a plus.

Please e-mail your qualifications to store at sewfastseweasy.com or fax
them to 212-268-4321 with ATTN: Gregory Garvin in the subject line.

 

 


visit us at  <outbind://5/www.sewfastseweasy.com> www.sewfastseweasy.com
and buy the best beginner sewing book, "Sew Fast Sew Easy: All You Need
to Know When You Start to Sew" by Elissa Meyrich, sewing patterns and
classes.

 

 

 
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From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Thu Oct 13 13:54:49 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:54:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <000f01c5d01e$72182b30$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
References: <000f01c5d01e$72182b30$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
Message-ID: <434E9F69.9050703@polymerdb.org>

Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy wrote:
> visit us at www.sewfastseweasy.com <outbind://5/www.sewfastseweasy.com> 
> and buy the best beginner sewing book, "Sew Fast Sew Easy: All You Need 
> to Know When You Start to Sew" by Elissa Meyrich, sewing patterns and 
> classes.

Maybe *these guys* can get phppatterns.com back on line. :o)

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Thu Oct 13 15:03:04 2005
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:03:04 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <000f01c5d01e$72182b30$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
References: <000f01c5d01e$72182b30$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
Message-ID: <434EAF68.1040005@cyberxdesigns.com>

You may want to check out our Jobs list.  You can find it at: 
http://www.nyphp.org/content/mailinglist/mlist.php.  That is where we 
recommend people post job listings.

Thanks,
Hans Kaspersetz
hans.kaspersetz [at] nyphp.org
AVP Operations & Presentation Lacky, New York PHP


Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy wrote:

> We are looking for the following.
>
> A PHP coder with experience developing ecommerce sites, especially in 
> a shared hosting environment. Must have strong *nix skills. Must know 
> MySQL. Moderate to advanced Javascript and CSS. Some experience with 
> mod_rewrite helpful.
>
> Must work well with understanding and modifying existing scripts. Must 
> have experience with PHP's cURL functions. Experience with cron a plus.
>
> Please e-mail your qualifications to store at sewfastseweasy.com 
> <mailto:store at sewfastseweasy.com> or fax them to 212-268-4321 with 
> ATTN: Gregory Garvin in the subject line.
>
>  



From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 16:55:22 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:55:22 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <434EAF68.1040005@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <000f01c5d01e$72182b30$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
	<434EAF68.1040005@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510131355n7ad15fay831005cd3fddcff7@mail.gmail.com>

lol let's see em get phppatterns back ;)

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Thu Oct 13 18:44:02 2005
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:44:02 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Prentice Hall Discounts
Message-ID: <434EE332.4070005@cyberxdesigns.com>

Prentice Hall has asked me to let you know that NY PHP members can 
purchase books for  35% off list price discount with free UPS shipping, 
by purchasing directly from Prentice Hall.

Visit: www.phptr.com/title/0131867164

Add the book to the Shopping Cart
At Checkout Step #3 [Payment Method], enter coupon code: "usergroup".
[Coupon expires 12/31/05]

The disclaimer here is they send me books to review regularly.  I have a new book that will be donated to NY PHP for the give away this month or next:"Core Web Application Development with PHP and MySQL".  Looks like a good book, it is certainly thick.

I hope this isn't considered a commercial post.  Hmmm.....

Thanks,
Hans K
http://www.cyberxdesigns.com




From nasir81 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 19:14:31 2005
From: nasir81 at gmail.com (Nasir Zubair)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:14:31 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Prentice Hall Discounts
In-Reply-To: <434EE332.4070005@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <434EE332.4070005@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <40fcda730510131614s691c03b5sdbb14d59cfc56a21@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the code Hans. Just wondering if the code is for this one book
only or sitewide?

On 10/13/05, Hans C. Kaspersetz <hans at cyberxdesigns.com> wrote:
>
> Prentice Hall has asked me to let you know that NY PHP members can
> purchase books for 35% off list price discount with free UPS shipping,
> by purchasing directly from Prentice Hall.
>
> Visit: www.phptr.com/title/0131867164<http://www.phptr.com/title/0131867164>
>
> Add the book to the Shopping Cart
> At Checkout Step #3 [Payment Method], enter coupon code: "usergroup".
> [Coupon expires 12/31/05]
>
> The disclaimer here is they send me books to review regularly. I have a
> new book that will be donated to NY PHP for the give away this month or
> next:"Core Web Application Development with PHP and MySQL". Looks like a
> good book, it is certainly thick.
>
> I hope this isn't considered a commercial post. Hmmm.....
>
> Thanks,
> Hans K
> http://www.cyberxdesigns.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>



--
Nasir Zubair
http://www.nasir.us/
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From adam at trachtenberg.com  Thu Oct 13 20:18:08 2005
From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:18:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Prentice Hall Discounts
In-Reply-To: <434EE332.4070005@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <434EE332.4070005@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0510132016340.31343@miranda.org>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:

> Looks like a good book, it is certainly thick.

Don't judge a book by the width of its spine. :)

-adam

-- 
adam at trachtenberg.com | http://www.trachtenberg.com
author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook"
avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today!


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Oct 13 22:56:56 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:56:56 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYPHP cringed at AJAX almost a year ago.... now JS
 exploit "level 3"
In-Reply-To: <4b1887110510121444k40186ad6ydc8438564b0d04fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3a2a0d6a56ce33fcaed8fb6b6b98b96a@musgrave.org>	<b76252690510010923ye493734p2d999f874594cfa6@mail.gmail.com>	<433EBBD9.1010707@php.net>
	<43411FEB.1030705@email.smith.edu>	<5e2aaca40510071927v19f41994w11577be3494badd3@mail.gmail.com>	<006701c5cc79$bb28ce90$0319a8c0@ced>
	<4b1887110510121444k40186ad6ydc8438564b0d04fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3148-12429@sneakemail.com>

I was at a meeting of NYPHPers a long time ago when some stuff was 
discussed that has since become part of "AJAX". I consider everyone at 
that dinner table to be a primo technologist, but some of them are truly 
outstanding programmers too :-)

When some clever new JS cross-server stuff was dissected in discussion, 
and it appeared that it was a "feature" made from what everybody 
recognized to be an XSS hole, some of the faces were really interesting. 
Kinda like "well, you really don't want to leave that open, but if it's 
open, yeah, I guess you could do that".

Since then we have AJAX everywhere. And now we have a hack that's being 
called a new "level 3" exploit. See http://e-scribe.com/news/103 and 
http://namb.la/popular/tech.html

I guess we all knew THAT would happen, right? ;-)


-=john andrews
http://www.seo-fun.com







From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 09:52:21 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:52:21 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYPHP cringed at AJAX almost a year ago.... now JS
	exploit "level 3"
In-Reply-To: <3148-12429@sneakemail.com>
References: <3a2a0d6a56ce33fcaed8fb6b6b98b96a@musgrave.org>
	<b76252690510010923ye493734p2d999f874594cfa6@mail.gmail.com>
	<433EBBD9.1010707@php.net> <43411FEB.1030705@email.smith.edu>
	<5e2aaca40510071927v19f41994w11577be3494badd3@mail.gmail.com>
	<006701c5cc79$bb28ce90$0319a8c0@ced>
	<4b1887110510121444k40186ad6ydc8438564b0d04fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<3148-12429@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510140652m42694997r66787f1837b6b41c@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/13/05, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:

> Since then we have AJAX everywhere. And now we have a hack that's being
> called a new "level 3" exploit. See http://e-scribe.com/news/103 and
> http://namb.la/popular/tech.html
>

Hmm, you can chase the buzzword and call this an AJAX hack, but it is
really plain old cross-site scripting vulnerability. MySpace wasn't
properly sanitizing user-submitted markup, and these guys were able to
sneak some JavaScript in.

It's a pretty great hack nonetheless. They used XMLHTTPRequest to make
requests in the background that a user would never notice, which is
what makes it AJAXy.

Two lessons learned:

1) If you allow markup, use a serious sanitizer ... something like
http://chxo.com/scripts/safe_html/ or one of the others discussed
previously on this list

2) Take steps to prevent forged form submissions ... for an excellent
tutorial, see http://shiflett.org/articles/security-corner-dec2004.

But further to number 2, if you don't have protection against
JavaScript there isn't much you can do to secure your forms. Even the
random token method that Chris describes can be foiled if the attacker
is scripting XMLHTTPRequests, because the script can request and then
POST a valid form, without the user ever knowing it.

Neato.

--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 10:16:38 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:16:38 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Prentice Hall Discounts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0510132016340.31343@miranda.org>
References: <434EE332.4070005@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0510132016340.31343@miranda.org>
Message-ID: <330532b60510140716t386967a5tb760836dce4b5f3c@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/13/05, Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg <adam at trachtenberg.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>
> > Looks like a good book, it is certainly thick.
>
> Don't judge a book by the width of its spine. :)

Back in the glory days of Big-6 consulting, that was called the
T.H.U.D. Factor(TM).

In order to bill a client excessive amounts of cash for a
quickly-written paper, you needed to ensure an adequate T.H.U.D.
Factor for proper justification of funds appropriation to suit your
needs.

Analysis of T.H.U.D. is simple - pick up the tome, drop it on your
desk, and measure the sound in decibels.

-- Mitch


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Fri Oct 14 10:26:55 2005
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:26:55 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Prentice Hall Discounts
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510140716t386967a5tb760836dce4b5f3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <434EE332.4070005@cyberxdesigns.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0510132016340.31343@miranda.org>
	<330532b60510140716t386967a5tb760836dce4b5f3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <434FC02F.6040500@cyberxdesigns.com>

I can tell you this book makes a pretty good T.H.U.D. when it hits the 
desk.  The cover even looks nice.  All kidding aside, when I have a 
chance to read through it, I will let you guys know if the substance 
makes as much a thud as the volume.

HCK

Mitch Pirtle wrote:

>On 10/13/05, Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg <adam at trachtenberg.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Looks like a good book, it is certainly thick.
>>>      
>>>
>>Don't judge a book by the width of its spine. :)
>>    
>>
>
>Back in the glory days of Big-6 consulting, that was called the
>T.H.U.D. Factor(TM).
>
>In order to bill a client excessive amounts of cash for a
>quickly-written paper, you needed to ensure an adequate T.H.U.D.
>Factor for proper justification of funds appropriation to suit your
>needs.
>
>Analysis of T.H.U.D. is simple - pick up the tome, drop it on your
>desk, and measure the sound in decibels.
>
>-- Mitch
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
>
>  
>


From shiflett at php.net  Fri Oct 14 12:19:22 2005
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:19:22 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYPHP cringed at AJAX almost a year ago.... now JS
 exploit "level 3"
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510140652m42694997r66787f1837b6b41c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3a2a0d6a56ce33fcaed8fb6b6b98b96a@musgrave.org>
	<b76252690510010923ye493734p2d999f874594cfa6@mail.gmail.com>
	<433EBBD9.1010707@php.net> <43411FEB.1030705@email.smith.edu>
	<5e2aaca40510071927v19f41994w11577be3494badd3@mail.gmail.com>
	<006701c5cc79$bb28ce90$0319a8c0@ced>
	<4b1887110510121444k40186ad6ydc8438564b0d04fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<3148-12429@sneakemail.com>
	<b76252690510140652m42694997r66787f1837b6b41c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <434FDA8A.1060100@php.net>

csnyder wrote:
> Even the random token method that Chris describes can be foiled if
> the attacker is scripting XMLHTTPRequests, because the script can
> request and then POST a valid form, without the user ever knowing it.

Yep, and this is exactly what happened.

This is primarily a CSRF attack, and it uses a XSS vulnerability as a 
platform. Apparently Myspace had CSRF protection, but because the XSS 
vulnerability allowed the attacker to inject some XMLHttpRequest stuff 
into people's profiles, that could be used to first request the form 
(victim's token included) and then send the CSRF attack along with the 
valid token. The clever part is that the CSRF payload exploited the XSS 
vulnerability again, proliferating itself through other people's profiles.

CSRF and XSS have been a deadly combination for years, and I'm hoping 
this recent incident helps raise awareness further.

The technical details are interesting, but the personal account is worth 
reading just for the laughs:

http://namb.la/popular/

"Oh wait, it's exponential, isn't it. Shit."

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy
http://brainbulb.com/


From joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com  Fri Oct 14 13:08:32 2005
From: joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com (Josh McCormack)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:08:32 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Prentice Hall Discounts
In-Reply-To: <434FC02F.6040500@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <434EE332.4070005@cyberxdesigns.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0510132016340.31343@miranda.org>	<330532b60510140716t386967a5tb760836dce4b5f3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<434FC02F.6040500@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <434FE610.8020805@travelersdiary.com>

I got it from the publisher, too. I had the manuscript (which is 
gigantic) and managed to read through some of it. The stuff on OO 
programming with PHP makes it pretty easy to understand, the explanation 
of variable functions was very nice, and there's thankfully not a great 
deal of "PHP works this way, while C does..." which I never really get a 
great deal of value from.

I'll let you know as I get through more of it.

Josh


Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:

> I can tell you this book makes a pretty good T.H.U.D. when it hits the 
> desk.  The cover even looks nice.  All kidding aside, when I have a 
> chance to read through it, I will let you guys know if the substance 
> makes as much a thud as the volume.
> 
> HCK
> 
> Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> 
> 
>>On 10/13/05, Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg <adam at trachtenberg.com> wrote:
>> 
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>>Looks like a good book, it is certainly thick.
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>
>>>Don't judge a book by the width of its spine. :)
>>>   
>>>
>>
>>Back in the glory days of Big-6 consulting, that was called the
>>T.H.U.D. Factor(TM).
>>
>>In order to bill a client excessive amounts of cash for a
>>quickly-written paper, you needed to ensure an adequate T.H.U.D.
>>Factor for proper justification of funds appropriation to suit your
>>needs.
>>
>>Analysis of T.H.U.D. is simple - pick up the tome, drop it on your
>>desk, and measure the sound in decibels.
>>
>>-- Mitch
>>_______________________________________________
>>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>>AMP Technology
>>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>http://www.nyphp.org
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
> 


From robynover at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 14:10:23 2005
From: robynover at gmail.com (robyn o)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:10:23 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] all functions parameters in an array?
Message-ID: <dc1507df0510141110t3d644eddufddb778d54ceeaf5@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a php function to get all the parameters in a user function in an
array?

For example, I have several strings in a function, and I'd like to do the
same thing to all of them before I deal with them individually:

function my_function($a, $b, $c, $d){
foreach ($array_of_parameters as $p){
$p = trim($p);
}
}

Thanks for your help.
Robyn
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From robynover at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 14:09:41 2005
From: robynover at gmail.com (robyn o)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:09:41 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] all functions parameters in an array?
Message-ID: <dc1507df0510141109j3d4c663am23aad2df534943de@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a php function to get all the parameters in a user function in an
array?

For example, I have several strings in a function, and I'd like to do the
same thing to all of them before I deal with them individually:

function my_function($a, $b, $c, $d){
foreach ($array_of_parameters as $p){
$p = trim($p);
}
}

Thanks for your help.
Robyn
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From jellicle at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 14:19:35 2005
From: jellicle at gmail.com (Michael Sims)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:19:35 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] all functions parameters in an array?
In-Reply-To: <dc1507df0510141110t3d644eddufddb778d54ceeaf5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc1507df0510141110t3d644eddufddb778d54ceeaf5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200510141419.35793.jellicle@gmail.com>

On Friday 14 October 2005 14:10, robyn o wrote:

> For example, I have several strings in a function, and I'd like to do
> the same thing to all of them before I deal with them individually:
>
> function my_function($a, $b, $c, $d){
> foreach ($array_of_parameters as $p){
> $p = trim($p);
> }
> }

A few notes:
--see the func_get_arg() and func_get_args() functions
--see the array_map() function
--remember a function can take an array as a parameter (which isn't 
necessary, given the above functions I noted, but may be easier)


Michael Sims


From tom at supertom.com  Fri Oct 14 14:21:20 2005
From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:21:20 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] all functions parameters in an array?
In-Reply-To: <dc1507df0510141110t3d644eddufddb778d54ceeaf5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc1507df0510141110t3d644eddufddb778d54ceeaf5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <434FF720.9030807@supertom.com>

Hi Robyn,

This sounds like a job for func_get_args:

http://us3.php.net/func_get_args

Tom
http://www.liphp.org


robyn o wrote:

> Is there a php function to get all the parameters in a user function 
> in an array?
>
> For example, I have several strings in a function, and I'd like to do 
> the same thing to all of them before I deal with them individually:
>
> function my_function($a, $b, $c, $d){
>       foreach ($array_of_parameters as $p){
>            $p = trim($p);
>       }
> }
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Robyn
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>  
>



From andrew at plexpod.com  Fri Oct 14 14:22:53 2005
From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:22:53 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] all functions parameters in an array?
In-Reply-To: <dc1507df0510141110t3d644eddufddb778d54ceeaf5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc1507df0510141110t3d644eddufddb778d54ceeaf5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051014182252.GQ17933@desario.homelinux.net>

On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 02:10:23PM -0400, robyn o wrote:
> Is there a php function to get all the parameters in a user function in an
> array?

Try func_get_args():
    http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.func-get-args.php

HTH,
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879


From robynover at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 14:25:56 2005
From: robynover at gmail.com (robyn o)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:25:56 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] all functions parameters in an array?
In-Reply-To: <200510141419.35793.jellicle@gmail.com>
References: <dc1507df0510141110t3d644eddufddb778d54ceeaf5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200510141419.35793.jellicle@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dc1507df0510141125v61e6ad8aq5c4b039c69b844f@mail.gmail.com>

i think func_get_args() is what i need -- thank you.

(i don't want pass an array into the function in this case, because i want
to deal with each item separately later in the function.)


On 10/14/05, Michael Sims <jellicle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Friday 14 October 2005 14:10, robyn o wrote:
>
> > For example, I have several strings in a function, and I'd like to do
> > the same thing to all of them before I deal with them individually:
> >
> > function my_function($a, $b, $c, $d){
> > foreach ($array_of_parameters as $p){
> > $p = trim($p);
> > }
> > }
>
> A few notes:
> --see the func_get_arg() and func_get_args() functions
> --see the array_map() function
> --remember a function can take an array as a parameter (which isn't
> necessary, given the above functions I noted, but may be easier)
>
>
> Michael Sims
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
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From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Fri Oct 14 15:47:59 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:47:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] bounced email and Mail::send()
Message-ID: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org>

Hi All,

I would expect mail sent to bad addresses to bounce, but maybe I'm 
missing something.  The following code snippet does send mail to good 
addresses, but mail to bad addresses don't seem to bounce back to me.  I 
suppose I'm missing some header, but I don't know what it would be.  Any 
ideas?

<?php
        include_once('Mail.php');
        include_once('Mail/mime.php');

        $hdrs = array(
                      'From'    => 'me at mydomain.com',
                      'Subject' => 'email subject',
                      'Return-Path' => 'me at mydomain.com',
                      'Reply-To' => 'me at mydomain.com',
                      'Return-Receipt-To' => 'me at mydomain.com'
                      );
        $mime = new Mail_mime("\n");
        $mime->setTXTBody("sample text");
        $mime->addAttachment('/tmp/sample.pdf', 'application/pdf');

        $body = $mime->get();
        $hdrs = $mime->headers($hdrs);

        $mail =& Mail::factory('mail');
        $mail->send('nonExistentUser at mydomain.com', $hdrs, $body);
?>

BTW, I checked, and the mail is not falling into a failover or other 
black hole that I know of.  For example sending to 
"nonExistentUser at mydomain.com" from my desktop mail client gets me a 
bounce within a few minutes.  Any thoughts?

- Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)



From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Fri Oct 14 17:39:59 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:39:59 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] all functions parameters in an array?
References: <dc1507df0510141110t3d644eddufddb778d54ceeaf5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <093c01c5d107$dc3711e0$6401a8c0@ced>

Robyn,

Why not array_walk() BEFORE you pass them into the function, or is there some specific reason it needs to be done in the function itself?

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: robyn o 
  To: talk at lists.nyphp.org 
  Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 2:10 PM
  Subject: [nycphp-talk] all functions parameters in an array?


  Is there a php function to get all the parameters in a user function in an array?

  For example, I have several strings in a function, and I'd like to do the same thing to all of them before I deal with them individually:

  function my_function($a, $b, $c, $d){
        foreach ($array_of_parameters as $p){
             $p = trim($p);
        }
  }

  Thanks for your help.
  Robyn



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From arzala at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 23:53:24 2005
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:23:24 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] bounced email and Mail::send()
In-Reply-To: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <43507D34.60708@gmail.com>

You already have paramater "Return-path" in your header so it should 
work. Do you use proper syntex in writing your all headers? Moreover try 
to add 1 more parameter "Errors-To" to your header string and then check 
whether it works or not. I have not tested it, but normally it works.

Thanks

Zala

---------------------------------
Anirudh Zala (Production Manager)
Ph: +91 281 245 1894
anirudh at aspl.in
http://www.aspl.in
---------------------------------



Allen Shaw wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>I would expect mail sent to bad addresses to bounce, but maybe I'm 
>missing something.  The following code snippet does send mail to good 
>addresses, but mail to bad addresses don't seem to bounce back to me.  I 
>suppose I'm missing some header, but I don't know what it would be.  Any 
>ideas?
>
><?php
>        include_once('Mail.php');
>        include_once('Mail/mime.php');
>
>        $hdrs = array(
>                      'From'    => 'me at mydomain.com',
>                      'Subject' => 'email subject',
>                      'Return-Path' => 'me at mydomain.com',
>                      'Reply-To' => 'me at mydomain.com',
>                      'Return-Receipt-To' => 'me at mydomain.com'
>                      );
>        $mime = new Mail_mime("\n");
>        $mime->setTXTBody("sample text");
>        $mime->addAttachment('/tmp/sample.pdf', 'application/pdf');
>
>        $body = $mime->get();
>        $hdrs = $mime->headers($hdrs);
>
>        $mail =& Mail::factory('mail');
>        $mail->send('nonExistentUser at mydomain.com', $hdrs, $body);
>?>
>
>BTW, I checked, and the mail is not falling into a failover or other 
>black hole that I know of.  For example sending to 
>"nonExistentUser at mydomain.com" from my desktop mail client gets me a 
>bounce within a few minutes.  Any thoughts?
>
>- Allen
>
>  
>
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From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Sat Oct 15 07:30:23 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:30:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] bounced email and Mail::send()
In-Reply-To: <43507D34.60708@gmail.com>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org> <43507D34.60708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org>

Anirudh Zala wrote:
> You already have paramater "Return-path" in your header so it should 
> work. Do you use proper syntex in writing your all headers? Moreover try 
> to add 1 more parameter "Errors-To" to your header string and then check 
> whether it works or not. I have not tested it, but normally it works.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Zala

Well, after further review, it appears it *did* work after all, but not 
in the way I expected.  Bounced mail came back into my CLI user's 
mailbox (let's call it "shell_PHP_user at example.com"), not the one marked 
in the headers ("me at example.com"). In fact, the headers on most of this 
bounced mail show the original message as coming from 
"shell_PHP_user at localhost".

I'm guessing there's some sendmail tweaking to be done here. But still, 
shouldn't the headers I pass to Mail::send() be the same headers that 
get attached to the mail?

For the sake of detail, here are the first few header lines of the email 
that's being sent -- notice that 'shell_PHP_user' is being used on the 
lines above, while 'me' is being used on the lower lines:
> From - Sat Oct 15 06:12:13 2005
> X-Account-Key: account3
> X-UIDL: 4350e40d00000001
> X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
> X-Mozilla-Status2: 10400000
> Return-Path: <shell_PHP_user at example.com > Received: (from shell_PHP_user at localhost)
> 	by example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id j9FBC7J03635;
> 	Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:12:08 -0500
> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:12:08 -0500
> Message-Id: <200510151112.j9FBC7J03635 at example.com>
> To: badaddress at other.example.com, me at example.com
> Subject: test email
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> From: <me at example.com>
> Reply-To: <me at example.com>
> Return-Receipt-To: <me at example.com>
> Errors-To: <me at example.com>
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
> 	boundary="=_24450f0ce176f5580ea337c3fe3ec778"
> Status:   

That's when I run the script from the command line.  If I run it through 
the Web, it's all the same except 'apache' is used instead of 
'shell_PHP_user'.  In any case, somehow the user name is being used 
instead of the values passed to $mime->headers().  Odd, right?

At this point it's academic, as I've found the bounced mail and know 
where it's going, but why the heck isn't this mail using the headers I 
give it?

I'll keep looking and post any answers here as a follow-up.

- Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From shiflett at php.net  Sat Oct 15 10:41:01 2005
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:41:01 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Prentice Hall Discounts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0510132016340.31343@miranda.org>
References: <434EE332.4070005@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0510132016340.31343@miranda.org>
Message-ID: <435114FD.5070805@php.net>

Adam Trachtenberg wrote:
> Don't judge a book by the width of its spine. :)

Yeah: http://phpsecurity.org/ :-)

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy
http://brainbulb.com/


From codebowl at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 10:48:05 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:48:05 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Decorator Pattern & Code Criticism
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510150748v64ea7131hdf0ae5893dfffffe@mail.gmail.com>

Guys,

I have started to create an object oriented approach at form handling with
PHP 5, can i get some constructive criticism on the code if you have time. I
have also attempted to implement the Decorator Pattern.

http://codebowl.dontexist.net/codebowl.zip

currently i have a TextInput, TextValidator that are working, when you add
the widget to the form you say if the item is required or not, if it is then
a * is shown next to the input field, and it's validated upon post, if not
well then there's nothing to validate.

If someone could look this over for me i would appreciate it ;) I think the
code is a bit of a mess as to see if the item is required i have to pass
through about 3 classes.

Thanks,

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From dwclifton at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 22:57:39 2005
From: dwclifton at gmail.com (Douglas Clifton)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:57:39 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 29, Issue 24
In-Reply-To: <mailman.73.1129326016.193.talk@lists.nyphp.org>
References: <mailman.73.1129326016.193.talk@lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <7d6cdcb0510151957y2c4eb131i5d89a2c6a49eb2a6@mail.gmail.com>

Or you can pass the arguments as an array, and
then decompose them for use inside the function:

function my_function($args)  {
  foreach ($args as $arg) trim($arg);
  list($arg1, $arg2, $arg3) = $args;
}

Or pass an associative array to the function with
the keys being the names of the individual arguments
and decompose them as variable variables:

foreach ($args as $name => $value) $$name = trim($value);

This would also be useful if you want the function to
process a variable number of arguments

There are countless ways of doing this sort of thing,
it might help if you explained in more detail what the
data and the function is trying to accomplish. --doug

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: robyn o <robynover at gmail.com>
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:10:23 -0400
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] all functions parameters in an array?
> Is there a php function to get all the parameters in a user function in an
> array?
>
>  For example, I have several strings in a function, and I'd like to do the
> same thing to all of them before I deal with them individually:
>
>  function my_function($a, $b, $c, $d){
>        foreach ($array_of_parameters as $p){
>             $p = trim($p);
>        }
>  }

--
Douglas Clifton
dwclifton at gmail.com
http://loadaveragezero.com/
http://loadaveragezero.com/app/s9y/
http://loadaveragezero.com/drx/rss/recent


From rolan at omnistep.com  Sun Oct 16 11:13:15 2005
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:13:15 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] maybe off topic...
Message-ID: <43526E0B.8040104@omnistep.com>

Have any of you received a flurry of these via email this morning?

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<!-- Global site tag (gtag.js) - Google Analytics -->
<script async src="https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtag/js?id=UA-51353372-3"></script>
<script>
  window.dataLayer = window.dataLayer || [];
  function gtag(){dataLayer.push(arguments);}
  gtag('js', new Date());

  gtag('config', 'UA-51353372-3');
</script>
<TITLE>404 Not Found</TITLE>
<meta name="description" content="PHP jobs stackware web application support and development forums for Mongo LAMP MySQL SQL Windows IIS Linux." />
<meta name="author" content="Stackware Web Development - http://stackware.com" />
<meta name="verify-v1" content="zWMoPwMn/dolscLkjLXTpRqgr9K8bzlzL1vM9WTjpHc=" />
<meta name="msvalidate.01" content="F85F81C1D0BAB5C349E8395628845E27" />
<meta name="y_key" content="265502be3db4fb6e" />
</HEAD><BODY>
<H1>Not Found</H1>
The requested URL was not found on this server.<P>
<HR>
<ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.31</ADDRESS>
</BODY></HTML>


I am seeming many of them from differing IP's.

~Rolan




From arzala at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 00:54:19 2005
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:24:19 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] bounced email and Mail::send()
In-Reply-To: <4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org> <43507D34.60708@gmail.com>
	<4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <43532E7B.8020404@gmail.com>

Normally you do not require to set header "Return-path" because return 
path address is automatically taken by Sendmail as the user who sends 
emails. Hence in your case it is "apache" when when sending mail from 
web and "shell user" while sending mail from shell.

Hence now you have only 2 options. To set above header in desired way, 
do not pass "Return-path" header while sending email. Instead in mail 
function use 5th arguments like below.

mail('To mail', 'Subject', 'Message', 'All required header', '-f 
bounce at someone.some');

This fifth parameter (was added in PHP 4.0.5) is your Return-Path. Here 
"bounce at someone.some" is your bounce mail address. Alternatively you can 
set permanent address in your php.ini or httpd.conf like below.

/usr/sbin/sendmail -f 'bounce at someone.some'

Please note that I have not tested above, so you have to try. But it 
will work most probably or you may have to change syntax according to 
php.ini or httpd.conf.

And sending mail from shell, invoke sendail command by using "-f" option 
and specify bounced email adress. See below.

[...]# /usr/sbin/sendmail -f 'bounce at someone.some' REST OF ARGUMENTS

Thanks

Anirudh Zala

---------------------------------
Anirudh Zala (Production Manager)
Ph: +91 281 245 1894
anirudh at aspl.in
http://www.aspl.in
---------------------------------



Allen Shaw wrote:

>Anirudh Zala wrote:
>  
>
>>You already have paramater "Return-path" in your header so it should 
>>work. Do you use proper syntex in writing your all headers? Moreover try 
>>to add 1 more parameter "Errors-To" to your header string and then check 
>>whether it works or not. I have not tested it, but normally it works.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Zala
>>    
>>
>
>Well, after further review, it appears it *did* work after all, but not 
>in the way I expected.  Bounced mail came back into my CLI user's 
>mailbox (let's call it "shell_PHP_user at example.com"), not the one marked 
>in the headers ("me at example.com"). In fact, the headers on most of this 
>bounced mail show the original message as coming from 
>"shell_PHP_user at localhost".
>
>I'm guessing there's some sendmail tweaking to be done here. But still, 
>shouldn't the headers I pass to Mail::send() be the same headers that 
>get attached to the mail?
>
>For the sake of detail, here are the first few header lines of the email 
>that's being sent -- notice that 'shell_PHP_user' is being used on the 
>lines above, while 'me' is being used on the lower lines:
>  
>
>>From - Sat Oct 15 06:12:13 2005
>>X-Account-Key: account3
>>X-UIDL: 4350e40d00000001
>>X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
>>X-Mozilla-Status2: 10400000
>>Return-Path: <shell_PHP_user at example.com > Received: (from shell_PHP_user at localhost)
>>	by example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id j9FBC7J03635;
>>	Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:12:08 -0500
>>Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:12:08 -0500
>>Message-Id: <200510151112.j9FBC7J03635 at example.com>
>>To: badaddress at other.example.com, me at example.com
>>Subject: test email
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>From: <me at example.com>
>>Reply-To: <me at example.com>
>>Return-Receipt-To: <me at example.com>
>>Errors-To: <me at example.com>
>>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
>>	boundary="=_24450f0ce176f5580ea337c3fe3ec778"
>>Status:   
>>    
>>
>
>That's when I run the script from the command line.  If I run it through 
>the Web, it's all the same except 'apache' is used instead of 
>'shell_PHP_user'.  In any case, somehow the user name is being used 
>instead of the values passed to $mime->headers().  Odd, right?
>
>At this point it's academic, as I've found the bounced mail and know 
>where it's going, but why the heck isn't this mail using the headers I 
>give it?
>
>I'll keep looking and post any answers here as a follow-up.
>
>- Allen
>
>  
>
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From tom at tomkeatingphotography.co.uk  Mon Oct 17 13:05:24 2005
From: tom at tomkeatingphotography.co.uk (tom keating)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:05:24 +0100
Subject: [nycphp-talk] art maps
Message-ID: <4353D9D4.4090807@tomkeatingphotography.co.uk>

Hello all,

we are a funded arts organisation. im not 100% sure if i'm posting to 
the right list.
i have been trying to adapt php gallery scripts to fit my needs and have 
realized i dont really know what im doing!

_brief introduction to 'us'_

Walkingtheland is a long-term initiative led by three Stroud based 
artists, landscape enthusiasts and educators.
our work has two threads:
1. to develop and produce our own work in response to walking through 
the landscape as a group.
2. the artists show this work as a catalyst for working with local 
people, artists and others with a keen interest in the landscape.
Participants are supported in developing their own work in response to 
the walks and this work is then curated on a web-based /e/Gallery. Over 
time this will develop into an archive of responses to local landscape.

we have arts funding to develop the second thread

_what we need.
_
a dynamic and efficient way of storing and displaying images (and 
eventually movie and sound)

we are currently using iframes (created by photoshop and simplifying the 
html a little) but its obviously becomes a bit longwinded the more 
images we have the more pages 
http://www.walkingtheland.org.uk/walkingthelandgallery/ (and click on 
the names on the right to see the gallerys)

at the moment we badly need to start storing images and displaying them 
well. but we have a vision to develop the way the images are displayed 
in the future.
we want to create 'online' maps of images sounds movies and journeys 
incorporating GIS.

_any ideas?_

if anyone has any ideas or can offer any help it would be greatly apreciated

if i hear from anyone then i can be far more specific

regards tom




From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Mon Oct 17 13:34:16 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:34:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] bounced email and Mail::send()
In-Reply-To: <43532E7B.8020404@gmail.com>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org>
	<43507D34.60708@gmail.com>	<4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org>
	<43532E7B.8020404@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4353E098.5030501@polymerdb.org>

Thanks, Anirudh.  I'll look into this some more.  To pass the -f flag to 
the PHP mail() function might work, but also I am trying to do this with 
PEAR Mail::send(), so I will dig deeper into that codebase to look for 
clues.

Still mystified,
Allen

Anirudh Zala wrote:
> Normally you do not require to set header "Return-path" because return 
> path address is automatically taken by Sendmail as the user who sends 
> emails. Hence in your case it is "apache" when when sending mail from 
> web and "shell user" while sending mail from shell.
> 
> Hence now you have only 2 options. To set above header in desired way, 
> do not pass "Return-path" header while sending email. Instead in mail 
> function use 5th arguments like below.
> 
> mail('To mail', 'Subject', 'Message', 'All required header', '-f 
> bounce at someone.some');
> 
> This fifth parameter (was added in PHP 4.0.5) is your Return-Path. Here 
> "bounce at someone.some" is your bounce mail address. Alternatively you can 
> set permanent address in your php.ini or httpd.conf like below.
> 
> /usr/sbin/sendmail -f 'bounce at someone.some'
> 
> Please note that I have not tested above, so you have to try. But it 
> will work most probably or you may have to change syntax according to 
> php.ini or httpd.conf.
> 
> And sending mail from shell, invoke sendail command by using "-f" option 
> and specify bounced email adress. See below.
> 
> [...]# /usr/sbin/sendmail -f 'bounce at someone.some' REST OF ARGUMENTS
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Anirudh Zala
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Anirudh Zala (Production Manager)
> Ph: +91 281 245 1894
> anirudh at aspl.in
> http://www.aspl.in
> ---------------------------------
> 

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From nasir81 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 13:38:15 2005
From: nasir81 at gmail.com (Nasir Zubair)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:38:15 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] art maps
In-Reply-To: <4353D9D4.4090807@tomkeatingphotography.co.uk>
References: <4353D9D4.4090807@tomkeatingphotography.co.uk>
Message-ID: <40fcda730510171038y66789d18sd8cc9257ec948acc@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tom,

Instead of starting from scratch, try looking into existing gallery
scripts/applications. My favorite one is "Gallery"
http://gallery.menalto.com/ It's an open source application, so you will be
able to customize it for the functionality that you need. (Unless of course,
you really want to roll out your own package).

On 10/17/05, tom keating <tom at tomkeatingphotography.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> we are a funded arts organisation. im not 100% sure if i'm posting to
> the right list.
> i have been trying to adapt php gallery scripts to fit my needs and have
> realized i dont really know what im doing!
>
> _brief introduction to 'us'_
>
> Walkingtheland is a long-term initiative led by three Stroud based
> artists, landscape enthusiasts and educators.
> our work has two threads:
> 1. to develop and produce our own work in response to walking through
> the landscape as a group.
> 2. the artists show this work as a catalyst for working with local
> people, artists and others with a keen interest in the landscape.
> Participants are supported in developing their own work in response to
> the walks and this work is then curated on a web-based /e/Gallery. Over
> time this will develop into an archive of responses to local landscape.
>
> we have arts funding to develop the second thread
>
> _what we need.
> _
> a dynamic and efficient way of storing and displaying images (and
> eventually movie and sound)
>
> we are currently using iframes (created by photoshop and simplifying the
> html a little) but its obviously becomes a bit longwinded the more
> images we have the more pages
> http://www.walkingtheland.org.uk/walkingthelandgallery/ (and click on
> the names on the right to see the gallerys)
>
> at the moment we badly need to start storing images and displaying them
> well. but we have a vision to develop the way the images are displayed
> in the future.
> we want to create 'online' maps of images sounds movies and journeys
> incorporating GIS.
>
> _any ideas?_
>
> if anyone has any ideas or can offer any help it would be greatly
> apreciated
>
> if i hear from anyone then i can be far more specific
>
> regards tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
>


--
Nasir Zubair
http://www.nasir.us/
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From ken at secdat.com  Sun Oct 23 18:30:09 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:30:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] bounced email and Mail::send()
In-Reply-To: <4353E098.5030501@polymerdb.org>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org>
	<43507D34.60708@gmail.com>	<4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org>
	<43532E7B.8020404@gmail.com> <4353E098.5030501@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <48544.38.117.147.25.1130106609.squirrel@38.117.147.25>

I went nuts with this until I gave up on shell emails and used TCP.  The
TCP option requires you to have your email server running, but on the
other hand, the shell method made it impossible to get the Return path
right, and that was a deal-breaker.  Using the PEAR package the code is
this:

// Assume an array $em() that has some stuff in it
include_once('Mail.php');
$recipients =$em["email_to"];
$headers['From']    = $from_name. "<".$from_addr.">";
$headers['To']      = $em["email_to"];
$headers['Subject'] = $em["email_subject"];
$headers['Date']    = date("D, j M Y H:i:s O",time());
$body = $em["email_message"];
$mail_object = Mail::factory('smtp', $params);
$mail_object->send($recipients, $headers, $body);

Once I got this running I've never looked back.

> Thanks, Anirudh.  I'll look into this some more.  To pass the -f flag to
> the PHP mail() function might work, but also I am trying to do this with
> PEAR Mail::send(), so I will dig deeper into that codebase to look for
> clues.
>
> Still mystified,
> Allen
>
> Anirudh Zala wrote:
>> Normally you do not require to set header "Return-path" because return
>> path address is automatically taken by Sendmail as the user who sends
>> emails. Hence in your case it is "apache" when when sending mail from
>> web and "shell user" while sending mail from shell.
>>
>> Hence now you have only 2 options. To set above header in desired way,
>> do not pass "Return-path" header while sending email. Instead in mail
>> function use 5th arguments like below.
>>
>> mail('To mail', 'Subject', 'Message', 'All required header', '-f
>> bounce at someone.some');
>>
>> This fifth parameter (was added in PHP 4.0.5) is your Return-Path. Here
>> "bounce at someone.some" is your bounce mail address. Alternatively you can
>> set permanent address in your php.ini or httpd.conf like below.
>>
>> /usr/sbin/sendmail -f 'bounce at someone.some'
>>
>> Please note that I have not tested above, so you have to try. But it
>> will work most probably or you may have to change syntax according to
>> php.ini or httpd.conf.
>>
>> And sending mail from shell, invoke sendail command by using "-f" option
>> and specify bounced email adress. See below.
>>
>> [...]# /usr/sbin/sendmail -f 'bounce at someone.some' REST OF ARGUMENTS
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Anirudh Zala
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Anirudh Zala (Production Manager)
>> Ph: +91 281 245 1894
>> anirudh at aspl.in
>> http://www.aspl.in
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>
> --
> Allen Shaw
> Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Mon Oct 17 14:04:15 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:04:15 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] art maps
References: <4353D9D4.4090807@tomkeatingphotography.co.uk>
	<40fcda730510171038y66789d18sd8cc9257ec948acc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c5d345$c21cf910$6401a8c0@ced>

Tom,

A Close friend of mine has been using Coppermine for sometime, worth a look.
http://coppermine-gallery.net/index.php

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Nasir Zubair 
  To: NYPHP Talk 
  Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] art maps


  Hi Tom,

  Instead of starting from scratch, try looking into existing gallery scripts/applications. My favorite one is "Gallery" http://gallery.menalto.com/  It's an open source application, so you will be able to customize it for the functionality that you need. (Unless of course, you really want to roll out your own package).


  On 10/17/05, tom keating <tom at tomkeatingphotography.co.uk> wrote:
    Hello all,

    we are a funded arts organisation. im not 100% sure if i'm posting to
    the right list.
    i have been trying to adapt php gallery scripts to fit my needs and have
    realized i dont really know what im doing! 

    _brief introduction to 'us'_

    Walkingtheland is a long-term initiative led by three Stroud based
    artists, landscape enthusiasts and educators.
    our work has two threads:
    1. to develop and produce our own work in response to walking through 
    the landscape as a group.
    2. the artists show this work as a catalyst for working with local
    people, artists and others with a keen interest in the landscape.
    Participants are supported in developing their own work in response to 
    the walks and this work is then curated on a web-based /e/Gallery. Over
    time this will develop into an archive of responses to local landscape.

    we have arts funding to develop the second thread

    _what we need. 
    _
    a dynamic and efficient way of storing and displaying images (and
    eventually movie and sound)

    we are currently using iframes (created by photoshop and simplifying the
    html a little) but its obviously becomes a bit longwinded the more 
    images we have the more pages
    http://www.walkingtheland.org.uk/walkingthelandgallery/ (and click on
    the names on the right to see the gallerys) 

    at the moment we badly need to start storing images and displaying them
    well. but we have a vision to develop the way the images are displayed
    in the future.
    we want to create 'online' maps of images sounds movies and journeys 
    incorporating GIS.

    _any ideas?_

    if anyone has any ideas or can offer any help it would be greatly apreciated

    if i hear from anyone then i can be far more specific

    regards tom


    _______________________________________________ 
    New York PHP Talk Mailing List
    AMP Technology
    Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
    http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
    http://www.nyphp.org





  -- 
  Nasir Zubair
  http://www.nasir.us/ 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New York PHP Talk Mailing List
  AMP Technology
  Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
  http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
  http://www.nyphp.org
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From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Mon Oct 17 14:11:51 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:11:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] bounced email and Mail::send()
In-Reply-To: <48544.38.117.147.25.1130106609.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org>	<43507D34.60708@gmail.com>	<4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org>	<43532E7B.8020404@gmail.com>
	<4353E098.5030501@polymerdb.org>
	<48544.38.117.147.25.1130106609.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
Message-ID: <4353E967.6080905@polymerdb.org>

Now *this* works.  I didn't realize that the Mail::factory() docs 
mentioned a $backend argument, and even those docs wouldn't have lead me 
to believe I'd get better results by changing it, but just switching to 
'smtp' instead of 'mail' seems to have solved the problem entirely. 
Good call.

Thanks,
Allen

Kenneth Downs wrote:
> I went nuts with this until I gave up on shell emails and used TCP.  The
> TCP option requires you to have your email server running, but on the
> other hand, the shell method made it impossible to get the Return path
> right, and that was a deal-breaker.  Using the PEAR package the code is
> this:
> 
> // Assume an array $em() that has some stuff in it
> include_once('Mail.php');
> $recipients =$em["email_to"];
> $headers['From']    = $from_name. "<".$from_addr.">";
> $headers['To']      = $em["email_to"];
> $headers['Subject'] = $em["email_subject"];
> $headers['Date']    = date("D, j M Y H:i:s O",time());
> $body = $em["email_message"];
> $mail_object = Mail::factory('smtp', $params);
> $mail_object->send($recipients, $headers, $body);
> 
> Once I got this running I've never looked back.
> 
> 
>>Thanks, Anirudh.  I'll look into this some more.  To pass the -f flag to
>>the PHP mail() function might work, but also I am trying to do this with
>>PEAR Mail::send(), so I will dig deeper into that codebase to look for
>>clues.
>>
>>Still mystified,
>>Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From ken at secdat.com  Sun Oct 23 23:21:19 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:21:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] bounced email and Mail::send()
In-Reply-To: <4353E967.6080905@polymerdb.org>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org>	<43507D34.60708@gmail.com>	<4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org>	<43532E7B.8020404@gmail.com>
	<4353E098.5030501@polymerdb.org>
	<48544.38.117.147.25.1130106609.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
	<4353E967.6080905@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <48615.38.117.147.25.1130124079.squirrel@38.117.147.25>


> Now *this* works.  I didn't realize that the Mail::factory() docs
> mentioned a $backend argument, and even those docs wouldn't have lead me
> to believe I'd get better results by changing it, but just switching to
> 'smtp' instead of 'mail' seems to have solved the problem entirely.
> Good call.

Glad it worked :)


> --
> Allen Shaw
> Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From arzala at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 00:07:06 2005
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:37:06 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] bounced email and Mail::send()
In-Reply-To: <4353E967.6080905@polymerdb.org>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org> <43507D34.60708@gmail.com>
	<4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org> <43532E7B.8020404@gmail.com>
	<4353E098.5030501@polymerdb.org>
	<48544.38.117.147.25.1130106609.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
	<4353E967.6080905@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <435474EA.3040400@gmail.com>

This "-f " switch has 2 drawback as well. Sometimes web based email 
treats it as span because, you forcibly mention different Return-path 
than it should be. Check all headers of your mail. You may find 1 header 
in your mail like "X-Authentication-Warning: SERVER NAME: apache set 
sender to bounce at SOMETHING.SOME using -f"

So you should use authenticated user account like root, admin etc. so 
above header will not added with your messages. Please note that you can 
not set return path using headers. so header "Return-path" will not 
yield anything.

Thanks,

---------------------------------
Anirudh Zala (Production Manager)
Ph: +91 281 245 1894
anirudh at gmail.com
http://www.aspl.in
---------------------------------



Allen Shaw wrote:

>Now *this* works.  I didn't realize that the Mail::factory() docs 
>mentioned a $backend argument, and even those docs wouldn't have lead me 
>to believe I'd get better results by changing it, but just switching to 
>'smtp' instead of 'mail' seems to have solved the problem entirely. 
>Good call.
>
>Thanks,
>Allen
>
>Kenneth Downs wrote:
>  
>
>>I went nuts with this until I gave up on shell emails and used TCP.  The
>>TCP option requires you to have your email server running, but on the
>>other hand, the shell method made it impossible to get the Return path
>>right, and that was a deal-breaker.  Using the PEAR package the code is
>>this:
>>
>>// Assume an array $em() that has some stuff in it
>>include_once('Mail.php');
>>$recipients =$em["email_to"];
>>$headers['From']    = $from_name. "<".$from_addr.">";
>>$headers['To']      = $em["email_to"];
>>$headers['Subject'] = $em["email_subject"];
>>$headers['Date']    = date("D, j M Y H:i:s O",time());
>>$body = $em["email_message"];
>>$mail_object = Mail::factory('smtp', $params);
>>$mail_object->send($recipients, $headers, $body);
>>
>>Once I got this running I've never looked back.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Thanks, Anirudh.  I'll look into this some more.  To pass the -f flag to
>>>the PHP mail() function might work, but also I am trying to do this with
>>>PEAR Mail::send(), so I will dig deeper into that codebase to look for
>>>clues.
>>>
>>>Still mystified,
>>>Allen
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
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From amiller at criticalmedia.biz  Tue Oct 18 00:55:23 2005
From: amiller at criticalmedia.biz (Alan T. Miller)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:55:23 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] $sth->fetch(PDO::FETCH_ASSOC);
	= Undefined class constant 'FETCH_ASSOC'
In-Reply-To: <435474EA.3040400@gmail.com>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org>
	<43507D34.60708@gmail.com>	<4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org>
	<43532E7B.8020404@gmail.com>	<4353E098.5030501@polymerdb.org>	<48544.38.117.147.25.1130106609.squirrel@38.117.147.25>	<4353E967.6080905@polymerdb.org>
	<435474EA.3040400@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4354803B.1070709@criticalmedia.biz>

I have been playing around with the new PDO objects in PHP 5.1 and for 
some reason I cannot get any of the constants to work.  I have followed 
the examples to the wire but no matter what I try, I keep getting an 
error telling me that the constants are undefined. Anyone else have this 
problem so far? Any sugestions?

Statements such as: $sth->fetch(PDO::FETCH_ASSOC);  will always yield a 
simular error:

*Fatal error*: Undefined class constant 'FETCH_ASSOC'

My test code follows what you will find at:

http://php.planetmirror.com/manual/en/function.pdostatement-fetch.php

Alan


From greg.rundlett at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 10:48:21 2005
From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:48:21 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] $sth->fetch(PDO::FETCH_ASSOC);
	= Undefined class constant 'FETCH_ASSOC'
In-Reply-To: <4354803B.1070709@criticalmedia.biz>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org> <43507D34.60708@gmail.com>
	<4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org> <43532E7B.8020404@gmail.com>
	<4353E098.5030501@polymerdb.org>
	<48544.38.117.147.25.1130106609.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
	<4353E967.6080905@polymerdb.org> <435474EA.3040400@gmail.com>
	<4354803B.1070709@criticalmedia.biz>
Message-ID: <5e2aaca40510180748n1ee96456o31c614b0bf5f0282@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/18/05, Alan T. Miller <amiller at criticalmedia.biz> wrote:
> I have been playing around with the new PDO objects in PHP 5.1 and for
> some reason I cannot get any of the constants to work.  I have followed
> the examples to the wire but no matter what I try, I keep getting an
> error telling me that the constants are undefined. Anyone else have this
> problem so far? Any sugestions?
>
> Statements such as: $sth->fetch(PDO::FETCH_ASSOC);  will always yield a
> simular error:
>
> *Fatal error*: Undefined class constant 'FETCH_ASSOC'

Find out what class defines the constant (by searching for the
'FETCH_ASSOC' string, or otherwise).  Find out if that class file is
included, or if that class is defined using 'class_exists()'
http://us2.php.net/class_exists.  Given the error, it is likely that
your code is not including the required class file.  It could also be
possible that the class defines the constant incorrectly, but that is
less likely.


>
> My test code follows what you will find at:
>
> http://php.planetmirror.com/manual/en/function.pdostatement-fetch.php
>
> Alan
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


From aarong at thinkcomputer.com  Tue Oct 18 19:11:42 2005
From: aarong at thinkcomputer.com (Aaron Greenspan)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:11:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Think Opens Lampshade PHP Framework
Message-ID: <4355812E.90202@thinkcomputer.com>

Hi,

My company has been using its own PHP framework, called Lampshade, when 
building products for our clients for a long time. As of today, we've 
made it open-source. Feel free to download and take it for a test drive.

Here's a link to the press release, which links to the download page:

http://www.thinkcomputer.com/corporate/news/pressreleases.html?id=24

Let me know if you have any questions, too.

Thanks,

Aaron

Aaron Greenspan
President & CEO
Think Computer Corporation

http://www.thinkcomputer.com


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Oct 19 09:38:36 2005
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:38:36 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Microsoft Shared Hosting.
Message-ID: <43564C5C.7090308@cyberxdesigns.com>

I hate to ask this question, but can someone recommend a provider for 
virtual hosting in a Microsoft environment?  My clients needs to move 
his MSSQL/ASP site to a new provider.

Thanks,
Hans


From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 10:40:46 2005
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:40:46 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Good Free Stock Chart Web Service?
Message-ID: <4b1887110510190740v66374164r610e0f89883e7875@mail.gmail.com>

I've been Googling around for a bit, but I figured I'd ask anyway...

Has anyone implemented any good, free, stock charts into their PHP
applications that you can recommend?

---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
http://jeff.loiselles.com


From ray at lances.net  Wed Oct 19 11:01:18 2005
From: ray at lances.net (Ray Lance)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:01:18 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [work]  Microsoft Shared Hosting.
References: <43564C5C.7090308@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <085701c5d4bd$f6225600$0600000a@rayl>

Wrong forum.  We will almost always advise moving to a LAMP environment.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hans C. Kaspersetz" <hans at cyberxdesigns.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:38 AM
Subject: [work] [nycphp-talk] Microsoft Shared Hosting.


I hate to ask this question, but can someone recommend a provider for 
virtual hosting in a Microsoft environment?  My clients needs to move 
his MSSQL/ASP site to a new provider.

Thanks,
Hans
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org



From corey at domanistudios.com  Wed Oct 19 11:07:04 2005
From: corey at domanistudios.com (corey szopinski)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:07:04 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Microsoft Shared Hosting.
In-Reply-To: <43564C5C.7090308@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <BF7BD958.194C4%corey@domanistudios.com>

I've had good luck with MaximumASP. Very friendly support folks, and lots of
features for the money.

http://www.maximumasp.com

-corey



On 10/19/05 9:38 AM, "Hans C. Kaspersetz" <hans at cyberxdesigns.com> wrote:

> I hate to ask this question, but can someone recommend a provider for
> virtual hosting in a Microsoft environment?  My clients needs to move
> his MSSQL/ASP site to a new provider.
> 
> Thanks,
> Hans







From rolan at omnistep.com  Wed Oct 19 11:33:41 2005
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:33:41 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Good Free Stock Chart Web Service?
In-Reply-To: <4b1887110510190740v66374164r610e0f89883e7875@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b1887110510190740v66374164r610e0f89883e7875@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43566755.9070708@omnistep.com>

A while back, I wrote up a small script that fetched and cached (mysql) 
historical stock prices from Yahoo!Finance, then plotted it with the GD 
library.
It also scraped Yahoo for the analyst ratings and can optionally plot 
them too (I was toying around with some ideas about automated prediction 
of stock movement based on weighted analyst ratings). Anyway, feel free 
to give it a try http://www.datawhorehouse.com/stock/prolookup.php
It is "work safe" unless you check off the "XXX" option.

~Rolan


Jeff Loiselle wrote:

>I've been Googling around for a bit, but I figured I'd ask anyway...
>
>Has anyone implemented any good, free, stock charts into their PHP
>applications that you can recommend?
>
>
>
>  
>


From codebowl at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 12:07:08 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:07:08 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Good Free Stock Chart Web Service?
In-Reply-To: <43566755.9070708@omnistep.com>
References: <4b1887110510190740v66374164r610e0f89883e7875@mail.gmail.com>
	<43566755.9070708@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510190907s60ecd6b5tf706401eb70702f1@mail.gmail.com>

lol nice porno stock charts ;)
--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 12:14:30 2005
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:14:30 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [work] Microsoft Shared Hosting.
In-Reply-To: <085701c5d4bd$f6225600$0600000a@rayl>
References: <43564C5C.7090308@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<085701c5d4bd$f6225600$0600000a@rayl>
Message-ID: <4b1887110510190914p1b58725bgac5df1916079a2ab@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Ray,

You're going to tell a principal of NYPHP that this is the wrong
forum? You're too funny man. ;-)

---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
http://jeff.loiselles.com


From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 12:17:20 2005
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:17:20 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Good Free Stock Chart Web Service?
In-Reply-To: <43566755.9070708@omnistep.com>
References: <4b1887110510190740v66374164r610e0f89883e7875@mail.gmail.com>
	<43566755.9070708@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <4b1887110510190917w71ad4e21v2980edb1696556f9@mail.gmail.com>

Rolan,

Thanks, this is pretty cool. I need something with some labels and
quite smaller though. The XXX feature is definitely a unique feature.
;-)

/jeff
---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
http://jeff.loiselles.com


From gary at helponboard.org  Wed Oct 19 12:34:40 2005
From: gary at helponboard.org (Gary Bonde)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:34:40 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Microsoft Shared Hosting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1129737601.42919.talk@lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <20051019163439.68684A87A3@virtu.nyphp.org>

I have a dedicated server at www.aitcom.net and I know they have both linux
and windows hosting environments.  The technical support is average but they
get the job done.

Gary Bonde
IT/Web Services
gary at helponboard.org


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/143 - Release Date: 10/19/2005
 



From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 12:52:07 2005
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:52:07 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Looking for the holy grail of snippet databases...
Message-ID: <c5949a380510190952l71295e5aqd7da228baa37c7fd@mail.gmail.com>

hmmm, a long, long time ago, I had grabbed a GREAT little snippet
database to dump my PHP code snippets into. Alas, that Mac melted on
me (well actually I drowned it, but that's another story all
together!)

Yes, I know I should write it myself, but I'm swamped with college
classes, and the one I had before was excellent. I was wondering if
anyone has seen one around, or how do you efficiently manage your code
hacks, tips, snippets etc?

thanks, ed  :-)


From rolan at omnistep.com  Wed Oct 19 14:09:31 2005
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:09:31 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Good Free Stock Chart Web Service?
In-Reply-To: <4b1887110510190917w71ad4e21v2980edb1696556f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b1887110510190740v66374164r610e0f89883e7875@mail.gmail.com>	<43566755.9070708@omnistep.com>
	<4b1887110510190917w71ad4e21v2980edb1696556f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43568BDB.4010606@omnistep.com>

You can modify the routines to generate charts of any size. I'll make 
the source available after I clean up the big security holes. :o


~Rolan

Jeff Loiselle wrote:

>Rolan,
>
>Thanks, this is pretty cool. I need something with some labels and
>quite smaller though. The XXX feature is definitely a unique feature.
>;-)
>
>/jeff
>---
>Jeff Loiselle
>Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
>http://jeff.loiselles.com
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>  
>


From matt at jobsforge.com  Wed Oct 19 18:47:16 2005
From: matt at jobsforge.com (Matthew Terenzio)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:47:16 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Good Free Stock Chart Web Service?
In-Reply-To: <43566755.9070708@omnistep.com>
References: <4b1887110510190740v66374164r610e0f89883e7875@mail.gmail.com>
	<43566755.9070708@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <5ff3dc88deaab738576511e4d0344dd2@jobsforge.com>


On Oct 19, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Rolan Yang wrote:

> of stock movement based on weighted analyst ratings). Anyway, feel free
> to give it a try http://www.datawhorehouse.com/stock/prolookup.php


Is that source freely available?



From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 19:05:23 2005
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (edward potter)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:05:23 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Good Free Stock Chart Web Service?
In-Reply-To: <5ff3dc88deaab738576511e4d0344dd2@jobsforge.com>
References: <4b1887110510190740v66374164r610e0f89883e7875@mail.gmail.com>
	<43566755.9070708@omnistep.com>
	<5ff3dc88deaab738576511e4d0344dd2@jobsforge.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380510191605y75aa3df0xc64805f4106bc3dd@mail.gmail.com>

This is a pretty decent stock parser, i had to use curl instead of
fopen, but same principals apply. I'm actually integrating it with a
flash application that pulls quotes from php then does some glowing
cubes in flash based on % changes in price.  It's not xml based, but
does the job.

Should get you started:
http://giombetti.com/snippets/14

thanks,ed

On 10/19/05, Matthew Terenzio <matt at jobsforge.com> wrote:
>
> On Oct 19, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Rolan Yang wrote:
>
> > of stock movement based on weighted analyst ratings). Anyway, feel free
> > to give it a try http://www.datawhorehouse.com/stock/prolookup.php
>
>
> Is that source freely available?
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


From rolan at omnistep.com  Wed Oct 19 21:43:12 2005
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:43:12 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Good Free Stock Chart Web Service?
In-Reply-To: <5ff3dc88deaab738576511e4d0344dd2@jobsforge.com>
References: <4b1887110510190740v66374164r610e0f89883e7875@mail.gmail.com>	<43566755.9070708@omnistep.com>
	<5ff3dc88deaab738576511e4d0344dd2@jobsforge.com>
Message-ID: <4356F630.7090708@omnistep.com>

I'm truly embarrassed to publish this code. It was just a 
hacked-together thing to test some ideas. Really not anything of 
presentable quality.
You can glance over it and maybe get some ideas though.
I added some comments at the start of getquote.php which describes the 
database structure.

http://www.datawhorehouse.com/stock/prolookup.phps - main script which 
users access
    getquote.phps - fetches the quote(s) from the database or web. If 
via web, then cache in the database
    backgroundgetquote.phps - launches a unix background process to 
fetch and cache quotes (so user does not have to wait)
    getratings.phps -  fetches analyst ratings for a given stock
    graph.phps - plots a graph given many parameters
    prepend.phps - database setup and query wrapper.


~Rolan

Matthew Terenzio wrote:

>
>Is that source freely available?
>
>
>  
>


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Oct 20 04:31:45 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 01:31:45 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Wordpress SQl injection risk - early warning?
In-Reply-To: <48615.38.117.147.25.1130124079.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
References: <43500B6F.7060509@polymerdb.org>	<43507D34.60708@gmail.com>	<4350E84F.6030401@polymerdb.org>	<43532E7B.8020404@gmail.com>	<4353E098.5030501@polymerdb.org>	<48544.38.117.147.25.1130106609.squirrel@38.117.147.25>	<4353E967.6080905@polymerdb.org>
	<48615.38.117.147.25.1130124079.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
Message-ID: <29617-49659@sneakemail.com>

Sometimes it is good to get a heads up. This one is on the WP forums,  
addressing wp-mail.php not sanitizing inputs. It's used when you post by 
email.

-=john andrews
http://www.seo-fun.com



From leam at reuel.net  Thu Oct 20 12:31:39 2005
From: leam at reuel.net (leam at reuel.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:31:39 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT]Forcing charset on a shared webhost?
Message-ID: <20051020163139.GF2468@leitz.reuel.net>

I've set up a static site for my client while I work on the shopping cart. The html files include double quotes which come across on his browser and mine as odd characters. I figured out how to set the encoding on my Mozilla to universal but the client and customers are not likely as computer literate.

Is there a way to force the browser to see the double quotes properly? As always, if there's something you can point me to that i missed, lemme know.

ciao! 

leam




From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Thu Oct 20 12:35:26 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:35:26 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT]Forcing charset on a shared webhost?
References: <20051020163139.GF2468@leitz.reuel.net>
Message-ID: <002a01c5d594$46bf5eb0$1519a8c0@ced>

php.net/chr  ?

----- Original Message -----
From: <leam at reuel.net>
To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:31 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT]Forcing charset on a shared webhost?


I've set up a static site for my client while I work on the shopping cart.
The html files include double quotes which come across on his browser and
mine as odd characters. I figured out how to set the encoding on my Mozilla
to universal but the client and customers are not likely as computer
literate.

Is there a way to force the browser to see the double quotes properly? As
always, if there's something you can point me to that i missed, lemme know.

ciao!

leam


_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org





From php at haberco.com  Thu Oct 20 13:23:32 2005
From: php at haberco.com (Eddie Haber)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:23:32 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] File Download Question
In-Reply-To: <48615.38.117.147.25.1130124079.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
Message-ID: <BF7D4AD4.10E39%php@haberco.com>

I have a file download area on my site. Users click a link, a JS pop-up
window pops with a meta-refresh tag that refreshes to the file to be
downloaded. The pop-up window also refreshes (reloads) the opener page.

Everything works great, except one problem. I am using a PHP script as a
gatekeeper/passthru for the file to be downloaded. Once the file download
begins, no other links on the browser (parent or pop-up) will resolve until
the download is over or is stopped. The second the download stops, any
clicked on link resolves.

The odd part is: If the meta-refresh in the pop-up goes directly to the zip
file, the browser can link away without problem. But if meta-refresh links
to the php script that dispenses the file, the links won't resolve during
download. Script is below.

Much appreciated! Thank you,
Eddie


<?

// a bunch of security checking

// filename (all are zip files)
$filename = "somepath/somefile.zip";

// commented headers below are
// alternate tries that didn't work

// output
header("Pragma: public");
header("Expires: 0"); // set expiration time
header("Cache-Control: must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0");
header("Cache-Control: public");
header('Content-Description: File Transfer');
header("Content-Type: application/zip");
// header("Content-Type: application/force-download");
// header("Content-Type: application/octet-stream");
// header("Content-Type: application/download");
header("Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=".basename($filename).";");
header("Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary");
header("Content-Length: " . filesize($filename));

@readfile("$filename");
exit;

?>




From dcech at phpwerx.net  Thu Oct 20 13:59:29 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:59:29 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] File Download Question
In-Reply-To: <BF7D4AD4.10E39%php@haberco.com>
References: <BF7D4AD4.10E39%php@haberco.com>
Message-ID: <4357DB01.7060301@phpwerx.net>

Eddie,

It sounds to me like you may have an issue with your sessions, as 
presumably the php download script is blocking your other pages from 
accessing the session.

If you put a call to session_write_close 
(http://www.php.net/session_write_close) after anything that needs 
access to the session but before the portion of the script that takes a 
long time, it should fix your problem.

Dan


Eddie Haber wrote:
> I have a file download area on my site. Users click a link, a JS pop-up
> window pops with a meta-refresh tag that refreshes to the file to be
> downloaded. The pop-up window also refreshes (reloads) the opener page.
> 
> Everything works great, except one problem. I am using a PHP script as a
> gatekeeper/passthru for the file to be downloaded. Once the file download
> begins, no other links on the browser (parent or pop-up) will resolve until
> the download is over or is stopped. The second the download stops, any
> clicked on link resolves.
> 
> The odd part is: If the meta-refresh in the pop-up goes directly to the zip
> file, the browser can link away without problem. But if meta-refresh links
> to the php script that dispenses the file, the links won't resolve during
> download. Script is below.
> 
> Much appreciated! Thank you,
> Eddie
> 
> 
> <?
> 
> // a bunch of security checking
> 
> // filename (all are zip files)
> $filename = "somepath/somefile.zip";
> 
> // commented headers below are
> // alternate tries that didn't work
> 
> // output
> header("Pragma: public");
> header("Expires: 0"); // set expiration time
> header("Cache-Control: must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0");
> header("Cache-Control: public");
> header('Content-Description: File Transfer');
> header("Content-Type: application/zip");
> // header("Content-Type: application/force-download");
> // header("Content-Type: application/octet-stream");
> // header("Content-Type: application/download");
> header("Content-Disposition: attachment;
> filename=".basename($filename).";");
> header("Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary");
> header("Content-Length: " . filesize($filename));
> 
> @readfile("$filename");
> exit;
> 
> ?>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org



From php at haberco.com  Thu Oct 20 14:19:56 2005
From: php at haberco.com (Eddie Haber)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:19:56 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] File Download Question
In-Reply-To: <4357DB01.7060301@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <BF7D580C.10E3C%php@haberco.com>

Dan,

You're a miracle worker! I had been wondering about this one for a couple
weeks. That fixed the problem. Thank you so much!

Eddie


On 10/20/05 1:59 PM, "Dan Cech" <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:

> Eddie,
> 
> It sounds to me like you may have an issue with your sessions, as
> presumably the php download script is blocking your other pages from
> accessing the session.
> 
> If you put a call to session_write_close
> (http://www.php.net/session_write_close) after anything that needs
> access to the session but before the portion of the script that takes a
> long time, it should fix your problem.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> Eddie Haber wrote:
>> I have a file download area on my site. Users click a link, a JS pop-up
>> window pops with a meta-refresh tag that refreshes to the file to be
>> downloaded. The pop-up window also refreshes (reloads) the opener page.
>> 
>> Everything works great, except one problem. I am using a PHP script as a
>> gatekeeper/passthru for the file to be downloaded. Once the file download
>> begins, no other links on the browser (parent or pop-up) will resolve until
>> the download is over or is stopped. The second the download stops, any
>> clicked on link resolves.
>> 
>> The odd part is: If the meta-refresh in the pop-up goes directly to the zip
>> file, the browser can link away without problem. But if meta-refresh links
>> to the php script that dispenses the file, the links won't resolve during
>> download. Script is below.
>> 
>> Much appreciated! Thank you,
>> Eddie
>> 
>> 
>> <?
>> 
>> // a bunch of security checking
>> 
>> // filename (all are zip files)
>> $filename = "somepath/somefile.zip";
>> 
>> // commented headers below are
>> // alternate tries that didn't work
>> 
>> // output
>> header("Pragma: public");
>> header("Expires: 0"); // set expiration time
>> header("Cache-Control: must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0");
>> header("Cache-Control: public");
>> header('Content-Description: File Transfer');
>> header("Content-Type: application/zip");
>> // header("Content-Type: application/force-download");
>> // header("Content-Type: application/octet-stream");
>> // header("Content-Type: application/download");
>> header("Content-Disposition: attachment;
>> filename=".basename($filename).";");
>> header("Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary");
>> header("Content-Length: " . filesize($filename));
>> 
>> @readfile("$filename");
>> exit;
>> 
>> ?>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>> AMP Technology
>> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> http://www.nyphp.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org




From dcech at phpwerx.net  Thu Oct 20 14:28:36 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:28:36 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] File Download Question
In-Reply-To: <BF7D580C.10E3C%php@haberco.com>
References: <BF7D580C.10E3C%php@haberco.com>
Message-ID: <4357E1D4.5010204@phpwerx.net>

No worries, I'm glad it worked out for you!

Dan

Eddie Haber wrote:
> Dan,
> 
> You're a miracle worker! I had been wondering about this one for a couple
> weeks. That fixed the problem. Thank you so much!
> 
> Eddie
> 
> 
> On 10/20/05 1:59 PM, "Dan Cech" <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:
> 
>> Eddie,
>>
>> It sounds to me like you may have an issue with your sessions, as
>> presumably the php download script is blocking your other pages from
>> accessing the session.
>>
>> If you put a call to session_write_close
>> (http://www.php.net/session_write_close) after anything that needs
>> access to the session but before the portion of the script that takes a
>> long time, it should fix your problem.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> Eddie Haber wrote:
>>> I have a file download area on my site. Users click a link, a JS pop-up
>>> window pops with a meta-refresh tag that refreshes to the file to be
>>> downloaded. The pop-up window also refreshes (reloads) the opener page.
>>>
>>> Everything works great, except one problem. I am using a PHP script as a
>>> gatekeeper/passthru for the file to be downloaded. Once the file download
>>> begins, no other links on the browser (parent or pop-up) will resolve until
>>> the download is over or is stopped. The second the download stops, any
>>> clicked on link resolves.
>>>
>>> The odd part is: If the meta-refresh in the pop-up goes directly to the zip
>>> file, the browser can link away without problem. But if meta-refresh links
>>> to the php script that dispenses the file, the links won't resolve during
>>> download. Script is below.
>>>
>>> Much appreciated! Thank you,
>>> Eddie


From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 15:48:32 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:48:32 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HAhahahahahahaha
Message-ID: <330532b60510201248j4987a96bk9d6b938a83172f30@mail.gmail.com>

http://news.com.com/Andreessen+PHP+succeeding+where+Java+isnt/2100-1012_3-5903187.html?tag=nl

"The simplicity of scripting language PHP means it will be more
popular than Java for building Web-based applications, Internet
browser pioneer Marc Andreessen predicted Wednesday in a speech here
at the Zend/PHP Conference."

Welcome to the nineties, dude!

-- Mitch


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 16:02:22 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:02:22 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HAhahahahahahaha
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510201248j4987a96bk9d6b938a83172f30@mail.gmail.com>
References: <330532b60510201248j4987a96bk9d6b938a83172f30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510201302j3a402b53yc6d671120f35f0fa@mail.gmail.com>

very funny ;)

i cannot wait to see what PHP6 brings to the table for php programmers ;)


--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From glenn310b at mac.com  Thu Oct 20 16:28:20 2005
From: glenn310b at mac.com (Glenn)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:28:20 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
Message-ID: <94debb045c6ace0fcc3bb63cdcecbdd1@mac.com>

hello,

i'm new to the list.

i was reading some of the posts about database performance,
and have an idea to help speed up certain queries.

given a one to many relationship between
parent_table and child_table_a...

parent_table
-------------
parent_id (unique key) indexed
child_table_a_count
more_cols
...
-------------

child_table_a
-------------
parent_id
child_id
more_cols
...
--------------

the idea is to keep a record of how many children a parent record
has, then use limit, so the query doesn't have to search the entire
child table looking for rows that match parent_id. it will quit
when it's found the correct number of rows.

both tables are innodb

in the application, (or with a trigger?)
set up a transaction where;

whenever rows are added to or deleted from
child_table_a, child_table_a_count in parent_table
is updated to the number of child rows.

to look up child rows in child_table_a for parent_id,

1. query parent_table for child_table_a_count for parent_id.

2. construct the next query, using the value of
    child_table_a_count as the value for limit.

maybe this is way too much work, or maybe limit doesn't
actually stop searching the table when it reaches the
limit_num.

could this be useful?

thanks,
glenn





From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Thu Oct 20 17:02:16 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:02:16 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HAhahahahahahaha
References: <330532b60510201248j4987a96bk9d6b938a83172f30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002601c5d5b9$8f9eeb30$1519a8c0@ced>

Nice, very nice. =D

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mitch Pirtle" <mitch.pirtle at gmail.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:48 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HAhahahahahahaha


http://news.com.com/Andreessen+PHP+succeeding+where+Java+isnt/2100-1012_3-59
03187.html?tag=nl

"The simplicity of scripting language PHP means it will be more
popular than Java for building Web-based applications, Internet
browser pioneer Marc Andreessen predicted Wednesday in a speech here
at the Zend/PHP Conference."

Welcome to the nineties, dude!

-- Mitch
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org





From rcozzol at optonline.net  Thu Oct 20 17:09:10 2005
From: rcozzol at optonline.net (Roland Cozzolino)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:09:10 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <94debb045c6ace0fcc3bb63cdcecbdd1@mac.com>
References: <94debb045c6ace0fcc3bb63cdcecbdd1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>

You can also use nested set theory.  This makes retrieval of parents, 
children, siblings, etc. extremely fast and efficient.  This also allows 
for an unlimited hierarchy.  The math is a bit more confusing at first, 
but quite trivial once you get it. The adjacency list model is 
significantly slower but much easier to understand.  A good link to help 
understand this is 
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/001020/celko.jhtml?_requestid=1266295.  
Also note, that in Oracle, there is a specific function to deal with 
this ... postgres, mysql, sql server and others do not deal with 
hierarchical structures in flat format.  Hope this helps, although I am 
not sure what the question was in the first place.

>  
>


From nasir81 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 20:32:19 2005
From: nasir81 at gmail.com (Nasir Zubair)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:32:19 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HAhahahahahahaha
In-Reply-To: <002601c5d5b9$8f9eeb30$1519a8c0@ced>
References: <330532b60510201248j4987a96bk9d6b938a83172f30@mail.gmail.com>
	<002601c5d5b9$8f9eeb30$1519a8c0@ced>
Message-ID: <40fcda730510201732u722c7233sbfd3c10c3caad56d@mail.gmail.com>

6 already? I'm still adjusting to 5 :-)

On 10/20/05, CED <Consult at covenantedesign.com> wrote:
>
> Nice, very nice. =D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mitch Pirtle" <mitch.pirtle at gmail.com>
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:48 PM
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] HAhahahahahahaha
>
>
>
> http://news.com.com/Andreessen+PHP+succeeding+where+Java+isnt/2100-1012_3-59
> 03187.html?tag=nl
>
> "The simplicity of scripting language PHP means it will be more
> popular than Java for building Web-based applications, Internet
> browser pioneer Marc Andreessen predicted Wednesday in a speech here
> at the Zend/PHP Conference."
>
> Welcome to the nineties, dude!
>
> -- Mitch
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>



--
Nasir Zubair
http://www.nasir.us/
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From greg.rundlett at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 23:09:26 2005
From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:09:26 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT]Forcing charset on a shared webhost?
In-Reply-To: <20051020163139.GF2468@leitz.reuel.net>
References: <20051020163139.GF2468@leitz.reuel.net>
Message-ID: <5e2aaca40510202009y6deae433j77a8e4c35fdcaabf@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/05, leam at reuel.net <leam at reuel.net> wrote:
> I've set up a static site for my client while I work on the shopping cart. The html files include double quotes which come across on his browser and mine as odd characters. I figured out how to set the encoding on my Mozilla to universal but the client and customers are not likely as computer literate.
>
> Is there a way to force the browser to see the double quotes properly? As always, if there's something you can point me to that i missed, lemme know.
>

You're on the right track.

The character(s) in question are probably inserted by a Microsoft
application that is configured (by default) to insert 'smart quotes',
em dash, trademark symbol etc in place of the actual ASCII characters
you type at the keyboard.  These bad characters (like the 'smart
quote') that are part of the Windows-1250 character set
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1250) that is incompatible with
simple ASCII or UTF-8.  There are many reasons why this is a 'dumb'
idea.  The main one is that not all user agents will be able to render
such characters, because the character is NOT present in the font
available on the client system - even IF the appropriate character set
is specified in the document header.  Even a user on a Microsoft
platform (using a non-Microsoft font) could see incorrect or missing
characters.

The best solution would be to avoid these non-standard characters.

The second best solution would be to replace these troublesome
characters with their unicode equivalent and then specify that
character set in BOTH the HTTP header like this
    header("Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8");
(assuming you're using PHP -- there are many variations depending on
the http server and scripting language in use)
and your document using a tag like this for HTML:
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
or this for XML
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
Text is said to be in a Unicode encoding form if it is encoded in
UTF-8, UTF-16 or UTF-32  If you want to use a character that is not in
UTF-8, then you can always use a numeric or character entity
reference.  There is a great FAQ at the unicode website here
http://www.unicode.org/faq/unicode_web.html

There is also a 'demoroniser' script
(http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/demoroniser/) that will clean your
documents if you have lots of cleanup to do.

A great tutorial can be found at
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/chars.html, with additional information
at http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/chars.html, which might lead
you to think "this guy knows his stuff" (Korpela, not me)  Where can I
read more? http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

Then there is the wikipedia set of articles on the topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_encoding

Setting the HTTP header http://www.w3.org/International/O-HTTP-charset.html

No list of references would be complete without a link to the W3C spec
http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod/

- Greg


From leam at reuel.net  Thu Oct 20 23:52:22 2005
From: leam at reuel.net (leam at reuel.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:52:22 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT]Forcing charset on a shared webhost?
In-Reply-To: <002a01c5d594$46bf5eb0$1519a8c0@ced>
References: <20051020163139.GF2468@leitz.reuel.net>
	<002a01c5d594$46bf5eb0$1519a8c0@ced>
Message-ID: <20051021035222.GA2085@leitz.reuel.net>

Um, not sure what you mean. I have an html file with the error that web browsers don't know how to read the character. There's no php in it.

ciao!

leam

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 12:35:26PM -0400, CED wrote:
> php.net/chr  ?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <leam at reuel.net>
> To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:31 PM
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT]Forcing charset on a shared webhost?
> 
> 
> I've set up a static site for my client while I work on the shopping cart.
> The html files include double quotes which come across on his browser and
> mine as odd characters. I figured out how to set the encoding on my Mozilla
> to universal but the client and customers are not likely as computer
> literate.
> 
> Is there a way to force the browser to see the double quotes properly? As
> always, if there's something you can point me to that i missed, lemme know.
> 
> ciao!
> 
> leam
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
> 
> 


From JoeyD473 at nyc.rr.com  Thu Oct 20 23:52:30 2005
From: JoeyD473 at nyc.rr.com (Joey Derrico)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:52:30 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HAhahahahahahaha
In-Reply-To: <40fcda730510201732u722c7233sbfd3c10c3caad56d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <330532b60510201248j4987a96bk9d6b938a83172f30@mail.gmail.com>
	<002601c5d5b9$8f9eeb30$1519a8c0@ced>
	<40fcda730510201732u722c7233sbfd3c10c3caad56d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435865FE.40709@nyc.rr.com>

I still havn't touched 5 yet

Joey Derrico

Nasir Zubair wrote:

> 6 already? I'm still adjusting to 5 :-)
>
> On 10/20/05, *CED* <Consult at covenantedesign.com 
> <mailto:Consult at covenantedesign.com>> wrote:
>
>     Nice, very nice. =D
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "Mitch Pirtle" < mitch.pirtle at gmail.com
>     <mailto:mitch.pirtle at gmail.com>>
>     To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org <mailto:talk at lists.nyphp.org>>
>     Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:48 PM
>     Subject: [nycphp-talk] HAhahahahahahaha
>
>
>     http://news.com.com/Andreessen+PHP+succeeding+where+Java+isnt/2100-1012_3-59
>     03187.html?tag=nl
>
>     "The simplicity of scripting language PHP means it will be more
>     popular than Java for building Web-based applications, Internet
>     browser pioneer Marc Andreessen predicted Wednesday in a speech here
>     at the Zend/PHP Conference."
>
>     Welcome to the nineties, dude!
>
>     -- Mitch
>     _______________________________________________
>     New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>     AMP Technology
>     Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>     <http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>     http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>     AMP Technology
>     Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>     http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Nasir Zubair
> http://www.nasir.us/ <http://www.nasir.us/>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>

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From greg.rundlett at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 00:20:44 2005
From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:20:44 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT]Forcing charset on a shared webhost?
In-Reply-To: <20051021035222.GA2085@leitz.reuel.net>
References: <20051020163139.GF2468@leitz.reuel.net>
	<002a01c5d594$46bf5eb0$1519a8c0@ced>
	<20051021035222.GA2085@leitz.reuel.net>
Message-ID: <5e2aaca40510202120m209dea51q1b9949a285c9a480@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/05, leam at reuel.net <leam at reuel.net> wrote:
> Um, not sure what you mean. I have an html file with the error that web browsers don't know how to read the character. There's no php in it.

You should read some of the references/FAQs I posted, but the short
answer is replace the fancy quotes that are in your document with
regular " from your keyboard (using a plain text editor or capable web
editor like Quanta Plus).

If you didn't create the original file, then you /might/ be in the
position where you can't actually see the offending characters.  In
that case, use a tool like Tidy or the demoroniser to do the work for
you.


From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Fri Oct 21 09:15:09 2005
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:15:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
References: <94debb045c6ace0fcc3bb63cdcecbdd1@mac.com>
	<43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510210913080.62075@emra.pair.com>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Roland Cozzolino wrote:

> http://www.intelligententerprise.com/001020/celko.jhtml?_requestid=1266295.

Utterly cool. Now, if only they would add a Flash animation that shows the
tree morphing into an oval containing lots of nested ovals, and a worm
traversing it...

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/


From jellicle at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 10:39:34 2005
From: jellicle at gmail.com (Michael Sims)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:39:34 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <94debb045c6ace0fcc3bb63cdcecbdd1@mac.com>
References: <94debb045c6ace0fcc3bb63cdcecbdd1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200510211039.35126.jellicle@gmail.com>

On Thursday 20 October 2005 16:28, Glenn wrote:

> i was reading some of the posts about database performance,
> and have an idea to help speed up certain queries.

You are correct, using LIMIT will often be faster than the same query 
without LIMIT:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/limit-optimization.html

However, the problem of keeping the parent_table updated with how many 
child rows apply may kill those gains.  It depends whether the child data 
changes often or rarely.  If the child data changes ten times for every 
one time you SELECT it, you will lose more than you gain.  If the child 
data changes twice yearly and is SELECTED ten times per second, this 
denormalization will clearly benefit performance.

It's all in how the data is actually being used.


Michael Sims


From leam at reuel.net  Fri Oct 21 11:24:03 2005
From: leam at reuel.net (leam at reuel.net)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:24:03 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT]Forcing charset on a shared webhost?
In-Reply-To: <5e2aaca40510202120m209dea51q1b9949a285c9a480@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051020163139.GF2468@leitz.reuel.net>
	<002a01c5d594$46bf5eb0$1519a8c0@ced>
	<20051021035222.GA2085@leitz.reuel.net>
	<5e2aaca40510202120m209dea51q1b9949a285c9a480@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051021152403.GG2507@leitz.reuel.net>

Sorry if my reply seemed off, I read the one answer before getting to yours. The complication is that i looked at the file on the server with "more" and it looked fine. Then I used "vi" to look at it and saw that indeed the odd characters were there.

So I'll read through your suggestions and put them to work. Thanks!

leam

On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 12:20:44AM -0400, Greg Rundlett wrote:
> On 10/20/05, leam at reuel.net <leam at reuel.net> wrote:
> > Um, not sure what you mean. I have an html file with the error that web browsers don't know how to read the character. There's no php in it.
> 
> You should read some of the references/FAQs I posted, but the short
> answer is replace the fancy quotes that are in your document with
> regular " from your keyboard (using a plain text editor or capable web
> editor like Quanta Plus).
> 
> If you didn't create the original file, then you /might/ be in the
> position where you can't actually see the offending characters.  In
> that case, use a tool like Tidy or the demoroniser to do the work for
> you.


From cliff at pinestream.com  Fri Oct 21 11:36:20 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:36:20 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510210913080.62075@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <000301c5d655$3856bd20$cc00470a@CHirschLaptop>

I have implemented this structure, but have added several fields. For
starters, I keep the id, parent id relationship because it seems handy
at times, and then add a tree level/depth field. This makes updates a
bit more complex, but if you are mainly performing various sorts of
reads, I think it makes things faster and presentation a bit easier.

Cliff Hirsch

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of David Mintz
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 9:15 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] database performance


On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Roland Cozzolino wrote:

>
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/001020/celko.jhtml?_requestid=12662
95.

Utterly cool. Now, if only they would add a Flash animation that shows
the
tree morphing into an oval containing lots of nested ovals, and a worm
traversing it...

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org



From dcech at phpwerx.net  Fri Oct 21 11:56:39 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:56:39 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <000301c5d655$3856bd20$cc00470a@CHirschLaptop>
References: <000301c5d655$3856bd20$cc00470a@CHirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <43590FB7.4080004@phpwerx.net>

I wrote a hybrid system based off a nested set idea but also storing the 
parent_id for phpGACL (http://phpgacl.sourceforge.net/).  It works very 
well, scales great and can easily be rebuilt if there is an error in the 
lft,rgt pairs.

The same idea powered this little demo, which some of you may remember.

http://clew.phpwerx.net/

Dan

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> I have implemented this structure, but have added several fields. For
> starters, I keep the id, parent id relationship because it seems handy
> at times, and then add a tree level/depth field. This makes updates a
> bit more complex, but if you are mainly performing various sorts of
> reads, I think it makes things faster and presentation a bit easier.
> 
> Cliff Hirsch
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of David Mintz
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 9:15 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] database performance
> 
> 
> On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Roland Cozzolino wrote:
> 
> http://www.intelligententerprise.com/001020/celko.jhtml?_requestid=12662
> 95.
> 
> Utterly cool. Now, if only they would add a Flash animation that shows
> the
> tree morphing into an oval containing lots of nested ovals, and a worm
> traversing it...
> 
> ---
> David Mintz
> http://davidmintz.org/


From glenn310b at mac.com  Fri Oct 21 17:29:12 2005
From: glenn310b at mac.com (Glenn)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:29:12 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <43590FB7.4080004@phpwerx.net>
References: <000301c5d655$3856bd20$cc00470a@CHirschLaptop>
	<43590FB7.4080004@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <36e601d0534d6d3f565dc7a7e5163652@mac.com>

thanks everyone,

there are far more reads than writes in the data situation I was 
thinking of.

glad to know that the concept is acceptable, at least in certain 
situations.

i was not familiar with nested sets. what a great idea. i'll be checking
that concept out further.

thanks for all the links.

sorry about the rtfm error about how mysql optimizes limit. i had 
checked my
local mysql docs, but didn't check the dev.mysql site.

i'm new to php and mysql (and sql in general), but have a few years
experience with databases and programming. mostly shell and perl using
relational (normalized) sequential plain text files, and isam with 
cobol.

anyway, i'm glad to be here.  hope i can contribute something useful in
the future.

glenn



> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>



From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 17:56:38 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:56:38 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] AOP vs OOP
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510211456l3f45a753w4dc1db843c24e6d5@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone here heard of AOP?

I just heard about it today and was wondering if it is better than OOP?

any thoughts?

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 18:06:14 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:06:14 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] AOP vs OOP
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800510211456l3f45a753w4dc1db843c24e6d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510211456l3f45a753w4dc1db843c24e6d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510211506o214a7542p6b9bd127c0db773a@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/21/05, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone here heard of AOP?

No... http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aaop

Any of those?


> I just heard about it today and was wondering if it is better than OOP?

What could be better? ;-)

From yournway at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 18:08:08 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:08:08 +0100
Subject: [nycphp-talk] AOP vs OOP
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510211506o214a7542p6b9bd127c0db773a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510211456l3f45a753w4dc1db843c24e6d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510211506o214a7542p6b9bd127c0db773a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <edce57650510211508w2f30af2fm@mail.gmail.com>

Chris, I think Joseph means Aspect Oriented Programming.

Still digging on it...

On 21/10/05, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/21/05, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Anyone here heard of AOP?
>
> No... http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aaop
>
> Any of those?
>
>
> > I just heard about it today and was wondering if it is better than OOP?
>
> What could be better? ;-)
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.


From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 18:09:38 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:09:38 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] AOP vs OOP
In-Reply-To: <edce57650510211508w2f30af2fm@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510211456l3f45a753w4dc1db843c24e6d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510211506o214a7542p6b9bd127c0db773a@mail.gmail.com>
	<edce57650510211508w2f30af2fm@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510211509w19922d3eu827700d1e9b275a9@mail.gmail.com>

Yes Aspect Oriented Programming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect-oriented_programming

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From krook at us.ibm.com  Fri Oct 21 18:18:29 2005
From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:18:29 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] AOP vs OOP
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800510211509w19922d3eu827700d1e9b275a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OFAB05EAFE.7498C5B6-ON852570A1.0079E39D-852570A1.007A8A60@us.ibm.com>

> Yes Aspect Oriented Programming
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect-oriented_programming
> 
> -- 
> Joseph Crawford Jr.


This is an area I've been wanting to explore but haven't yet gotten into. 
There seems to be a lot of new technologies and articles on it recently.

The tutorial below might be of some use as an overview (at least in 
Java/OOP terms).  But you'd probably best be served on how it could be 
applied in PHP terms by looking for an implementation or port of the 
Spring framework (http://springframework.org/).   Maybe 
http://www.aophp.net/ (linked from that wikipedia article).


An introduction to AOP
https://www6.software.ibm.com/developerworks/education/j-aopintro/j-aopintro-ltr.pdf

"AOP does not contradict or displace object-oriented design and 
programming, which
all Java developers practice. Instead, it complements them. AOP can be 
viewed as
the next natural adaptive step beyond object-oriented programming (OOP) in
software engineering for developers and research communities."






Daniel Krook, Advisory IT Specialist 
Application Development, Production Services - Tools, ibm.com

Personal: http://info.krook.org/
BluePages: http://bluepages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/
BlogPages: http://blogpages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/




From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 18:20:36 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:20:36 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] AOP vs OOP
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510211506o214a7542p6b9bd127c0db773a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510211456l3f45a753w4dc1db843c24e6d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510211506o214a7542p6b9bd127c0db773a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510211520r34d7e466xc3e8ebfeeb3218c7@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/21/05, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/21/05, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Anyone here heard of AOP?
>
> No... http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aaop
>
> Any of those?

Yes, Aspect-Oriented Programming, which takes OOP and adds the notion
of "aspects", interfaces that cut across multiple classes.

> > I just heard about it today and was wondering if it is better than OOP?
>
> What could be better? ;-)

See http://jroller.com/page/colyer/20040531 for concept, and
http://www.eclipse.org/aspectj/doc/released/faq.html#q:benefits for
some benefits.



--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 18:25:01 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:25:01 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] AOP vs OOP
In-Reply-To: <OFAB05EAFE.7498C5B6-ON852570A1.0079E39D-852570A1.007A8A60@us.ibm.com>
References: <8d9a42800510211509w19922d3eu827700d1e9b275a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<OFAB05EAFE.7498C5B6-ON852570A1.0079E39D-852570A1.007A8A60@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510211525i21acfadfradd87bd59d8086f4@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/21/05, Daniel Krook <krook at us.ibm.com> wrote:

> An introduction to AOP
> https://www6.software.ibm.com/developerworks/education/j-aopintro/j-aopintro-ltr.pdf
>
> "AOP does not contradict or displace object-oriented design and
> programming, which
> all Java developers practice. Instead, it complements them. AOP can be
> viewed as
> the next natural adaptive step beyond object-oriented programming (OOP) in
> software engineering for developers and research communities."
>


Thanks, Dan -- that's a great resource.

From yournway at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 18:27:03 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:27:03 +0100
Subject: [nycphp-talk] AOP vs OOP
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510211525i21acfadfradd87bd59d8086f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510211509w19922d3eu827700d1e9b275a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<OFAB05EAFE.7498C5B6-ON852570A1.0079E39D-852570A1.007A8A60@us.ibm.com>
	<b76252690510211525i21acfadfradd87bd59d8086f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <edce57650510211527s7c9635c1p@mail.gmail.com>

Indeed, you antecipated me Chris.

Thanks Daniel.

On 21/10/05, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/21/05, Daniel Krook <krook at us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> > An introduction to AOP
> > https://www6.software.ibm.com/developerworks/education/j-aopintro/j-aopintro-ltr.pdf
> >
> > "AOP does not contradict or displace object-oriented design and
> > programming, which
> > all Java developers practice. Instead, it complements them. AOP can be
> > viewed as
> > the next natural adaptive step beyond object-oriented programming (OOP) in
> > software engineering for developers and research communities."
> >
>
>
> Thanks, Dan -- that's a great resource.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.


From shiflett at php.net  Sat Oct 22 15:51:28 2005
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:51:28 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HAhahahahahahaha
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510201248j4987a96bk9d6b938a83172f30@mail.gmail.com>
References: <330532b60510201248j4987a96bk9d6b938a83172f30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435A9840.1000302@php.net>

Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> "The simplicity of scripting language PHP means it will be more
> popular than Java for building Web-based applications, Internet
> browser pioneer Marc Andreessen predicted Wednesday in a speech
> here at the Zend/PHP Conference."
> 
> Welcome to the nineties, dude!

PHP was nowhere near as popular as Java in the 90s. :-)

Marc said a lot that we already know, but keep in mind that his words 
carry a lot of weight in the business community, and they're not as 
close to the technology as we are. If this stuff wasn't news to them, it 
wouldn't be getting this much attention.

His statement was that more web applications will be built in the next 5 
years than exist now. Thus, whatever technology dominates over the next 
5 years is going to be firmly in the top spot, and PHP is poised to do 
exactly that. That's what I heard.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy
http://brainbulb.com/


From matt at matt-roberts.net  Sat Oct 22 16:15:00 2005
From: matt at matt-roberts.net (Matt Roberts)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:15:00 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Long MySQL processes, connections
Message-ID: <6C52C4A2-D964-4A7A-A388-CE794EFFFFDF@matt-roberts.net>


I'm using mysql_connect() to access a MySQL database at the beginning  
of a PHP script.

This script does long process of a large recordset, and generally  
takes 30-40 minutes to process all records.

My question: what's the best way to handle this long connection?  
Could someone please explain the behind the scenes / best practice  
around MySQL var "wait_timeout" ?  Sometimes the process hangs -  
could it be related to this timeout variable?  As a workaround I  
connect and disconnect at the top and bottom of the processing loop -  
is this a bad idea?

Thanks!
Matt

Matt Roberts
matt at matt-roberts.net





From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Sat Oct 22 16:36:15 2005
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:36:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221625110.56309@emra.pair.com>


Anybody see anything wrong with this?

<?php
$mailer = Mail::factory('mail');
$recipients = 'dmintz at davidmintz.org';
$headers['From']    = 'vernon at vernontbludgeon.com';
$headers['To']      = '"David Mintz" <dmintz at davidmintz.org>';
$headers['Subject'] = 'Test message';
$body = "This test used the 'mail' backend and a To field that says:  $header[To]";
true === $result = $mailer->send($recipients, $headers, $body)
	or exit($result->getMessage());
echo "ok\n" ;
?>

When this message reaches my inbox and I read it with the pine email
client, the To field says

To: dmintz at davidmintz.org, David Mintz <dmintz at davidmintz.org>

that is, listing my email address twice. Though I in fact get just one
copy of the message, it's ugly.

But when I send mail to myself through any other means I don't get this
behavior. And when I read this same message via my hosting service's web
interface, the To header displays thus


To:   	"David Mintz" <dmintz at davidmintz.org>

which is what I want/expect.

Comments?

Thanks

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/


From jdaly at panix.com  Sat Oct 22 16:49:43 2005
From: jdaly at panix.com (John Daly)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:49:43 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221625110.56309@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <001001c5d74a$21934ae0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>

David,

It looks like you're already setting the To: header when you set recipients 
and use it as the first argument to 'send'.  Leave out the $headers['To'] 
and that should fix it.  I'm not familiar with this class, but there might 
be another association to set Name.

JD

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Mintz" <dmintz at davidmintz.org>
To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 4:36 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity



Anybody see anything wrong with this?

<?php
$mailer = Mail::factory('mail');
$recipients = 'dmintz at davidmintz.org';
$headers['From']    = 'vernon at vernontbludgeon.com';
$headers['To']      = '"David Mintz" <dmintz at davidmintz.org>';
$headers['Subject'] = 'Test message';
$body = "This test used the 'mail' backend and a To field that says: 
$header[To]";
true === $result = $mailer->send($recipients, $headers, $body)
or exit($result->getMessage());
echo "ok\n" ;
?>

When this message reaches my inbox and I read it with the pine email
client, the To field says

To: dmintz at davidmintz.org, David Mintz <dmintz at davidmintz.org>

that is, listing my email address twice. Though I in fact get just one
copy of the message, it's ugly.

But when I send mail to myself through any other means I don't get this
behavior. And when I read this same message via my hosting service's web
interface, the To header displays thus


To:   "David Mintz" <dmintz at davidmintz.org>

which is what I want/expect.

Comments?

Thanks

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org 



From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:31:04 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:31:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #320
Message-ID: <20051022213023.6494A11F76A@mailspool2.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #320

APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
PHPMyAdmin Local File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15053
Upgrade to phpMyAdmin 2.6.4-pl3 or newer.

VersatileBulletinBoard Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15068

VersatileBulletinBoard Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15073

VersatileBulletinBoard Information Disclosure Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15075

PHP Advanced Transfer Manager Arbitrary File Upload Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15074

Zeroblog Thread.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15078

Xeobook Multiple HTML Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15086

PHPWebSite Search Module SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15088

Yapig View.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15092

YaPig Homepage Form Field HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15095

Gallery Main.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15108

W-Agora Multiple Arbitrary PHP Code Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15110

Complete PHP Counter SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15111

Complete PHP Counter Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15112

PunBB Search.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15114


RELATED STUFF
-------------
OpenSSL Insecure Protocol Negotiation Weakness
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15071
Upgrade to 0.9.7h or 0.9.8a

Multiple Vendor WGet/Curl NTLM Username Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15102
curl and libcurl: &lt;= 7.10.5 and &gt;= 7.15.0 are not affected or
fixed.<br />Wget: upgrade to 1.10.2.





From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:02 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #319
Message-ID: <20051022213421.6717A11F76A@mailspool2.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #319

APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
PHP-Fusion Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15005

TellMe Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15012

MyBloggie Search.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15017

PHP-Fusion Register.PHP And FAQ.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15018

OScommerce Additional_Images.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15023

MediaWiki HTML Inline Style Attributes Unspecified Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15024

MediaWiki History Database Corruption Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15041

Utopia News Pro Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15027

Utopia News Pro SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15028

Cyphor Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15047


RELATED STUFF
-------------
Mozilla Firefox Multiple Unspecified Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15029
If you are using Firefox 1.5, make sure to upgrade to beta 2.





From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:05 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #318
Message-ID: <20051022213424.D8B2011F76A@mailspool2.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #318

PHP
---
PHP Open_BaseDir Security Restriction Bypass Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14957
This bug (http://bugs.php.net/32937) was fixed in CVS on 2005-09-27
(http://cvs.php.net/php-src/main/fopen_wrappers.c).


APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
AlstraSoft E-Friends Remote File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14932

UNU Networks MailGust User_email.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14933

SEO-Board Admin.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14936

CMS Made Simple Index.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14937

Riverdark RSS Syndicator Module RSS.PHP Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14940

LucidCMS Index.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14951

CJ LinkOut Top.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14953

CJ Tag Board Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14954

CJ Web2Mail Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14956

PostNuke PN_BBCode Local File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14958

CubeCart Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14962

PHP-Fusion Messages.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14964

SquirrelMail Address Add Plugin Add.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14973

EasyGuppy Printfaq.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14984

MediaWiki Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14987

PHP-Fusion Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14992





From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:08 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #317
Message-ID: <20051022213427.C9CFA9A58F@mailspool3.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #317

APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
CutePHP CuteNews Flood Protection Client-IP PHP Code Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14869

EPay Pro Index.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14871

VBulletin Multiple Moderator And Administrator SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14872

VBulletin Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14874

NooToplist Index.PHP Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14873

MX Shop Index.PHP Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14876

Hesk Session ID Authentication Bypass Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14879

PHP Advanced Transfer Manager Multiple Directory Traversal Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14883

PHP Advanced Transfer Manager Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14887

Land Down Under Multiple Remote SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14896

Simplog Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14897

PunBB Forgotten Email Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14900

PunBB Language Selection File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14904

GeSHI Example.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14903

My Little Forum Search.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14908

PHPMyFAQ Password.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerabililty
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14927

PHPMyFAQ Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14928

PHPMyFAQ Local File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14929

PHPMyFAQ Logs Unauthorized Access Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14930

UNU Networks MailGust User_email.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14933


RELATED STUFF
-------------
Multiple Mozilla Browser/Firefox Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/
Make sure to upgrade to versions Firefox/Mozilla.





From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:16 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #315
Message-ID: <20051022213435.3EEFD9A58F@mailspool3.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #315

APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
MyBloggie login.php SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14739

MAXdev MD-Pro Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14742

Land Down Under Events.PHP HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14746

NewsBoard Description Field HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14748

MAXdev MD-Pro Arbitrary Remote File Upload Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14750

MAXdev MD-Pro Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14751

GuppY PrintFAQ.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14752

GuppY Error.PHP HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14753

MyBulletinBoard Forumdisplay.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14754

MyBulletinBoard Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14762

MyBulletinBoard Forumdisplay.PHP Fid Parameter Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14782

MyBulletinBoard RateThread.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14786

PHPCommunityCalendar Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14763

PHPCommunityCalendar Multiple Remote Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14767

PBLang Bulletin Board System SetCookie.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14765

PBLang Bulletin Board System HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14766

Class-1 Forum SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14774

Stylemotion WEB//NEWS Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14776

AMember Remote File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14777


RELATED STUFF
-------------
Mozilla/Netscape/Firefox Browsers Domain Name Remote Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14784
Firefox 1.0.6 and 1.5 Beta 1 are vulnerable to this issue.  Mozilla
1.7.11 and Netscape 8.0.3.3 and 7.2 are affected as well.
<br/>A temporary fix is to disable International Domain Name support
by setting network.enableIDN to false in about:config.
<br/>See the <a
href="https://addons.mozilla.org/messages/307259.html">announcement</a>
on Mozilla's website for more information.





From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:18 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #314
Message-ID: <20051022213437.E554211F76E@mailspool2.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #314

APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
PHPMyAdmin Cookie.Auth.Lib.PHP HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14674
This issue has been addressed in phpMyAdmin 2.6.4-rc1.

PHPMyAdmin Error.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14675
This issue has been addressed in phpMyAdmin 2.6.4-rc1.

Land Down Under Signature HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14677

FUDforum Avatar Upload Arbitrary Script Upload Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14678

PHPWebNotes Api.PHP Remote File Include  Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14679

Simple PHP Blog Comment_Delete_CGI.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14681

MyBB Member.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14684

AutoLinks Pro Al_initialize.PHP  Remote File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14686

PHP-Fusion BBCode URL Tag Script Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14688

Hesk Admin.PHP Authentication Bypass Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14692

PHPLDAPAdmin Unauthorized Access Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14694

PHPLDAPAdmin Welcome.PHP Multiple Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14695

e107 Forum_post.PHP Arbitrary Post Creation Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14699

FlatNuke ID Parameter Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14702

FlatNuke USR Parameter Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14704

CMS Made Simple Lang.PHP Remote File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14709

DownFile Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14713

DownFile Administrator Unauthorized Access Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14714

GBook Multiple Unspecified Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14725

PBLang Bulletin Board System Multiple Remote Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14728


RELATED STUFF
-------------
Apache Mod_SSL SSLVerifyClient Restriction Bypass Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14721

OpenSSH DynamicForward Inadvertent GatewayPorts Activation Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14727

OpenSSH GSSAPI Credential Disclosure Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14729





From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:11 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #316
Message-ID: <20051022213431.179519A58F@mailspool3.panix.com>


Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_STRING, expecting ')' in d:\webroot\phpsec\svn\vulnerabilities\sf.items\316.php on line 60



From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:22 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #313
Message-ID: <20051022213442.29E4B9A58F@mailspool3.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #313

APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
Woltlab Burning Board ModCP.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14617

Land Down Under Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14618

Land Down Under Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14619

Coppermine Displayimage.PHP Script Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14625

NEPHP Browse.PHP Cross Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14626

PHPKit Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14629

RunCMS NewBB_Plus and Messages Modules Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14631

RunCMS Arbitrary Variable Overwrite Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14634

PostNuke Multiple Cross Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14635

PostNuke DL-viewdownload.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14636

SaveWebPortal Unauthorized Access Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14639

SaveWebPortal Multiple Remote File Include Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14641

SaveWebPortal Multiple Cross Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14642

SaveWebPortal Multiple Directory Traversal Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14643

WebCalendar Send_Reminders.PHP Remote File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14651

PAFileDB Auth.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14654

Foojan PHPWeblog Html Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14658

Simple PHP Blog Remote Arbitrary File Upload Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14667

Gallery Script Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14668

PHPgraphy Script Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14669

YaPig Script Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14670

PhotoPost Script Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14671





From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:26 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #312
Message-ID: <20051022213445.74D349A58F@mailspool3.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #312

APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
PHPXMLRPC and PEAR XML_RPC Remote Code Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14560

Dokeos Multiple Directory Traversal Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14563

Discuz! Arbitrary File Upload Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14564

CPaint Unspecified Command Execution and Information Disclosure Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14565

CPaint xmlhttp Request Input Validation Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14577

My Image Gallery Multiple Cross Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14570

SafeHTML UTF-7 And CSS Comment Tag Cross Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14574

ECW Shop Index.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14576

ECW Shop Index.PHP Cross Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14578

ECW Shop Index.PHP HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14579

ECW Shop Order Input Validation Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14580

phpPgAds Lib-View-Direct.INC.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14583

phpPgAds Local File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14584

phpAdsNew Lib-View-Direct.INC.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14588

phpAdsNew Local File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14591

PHPFreeNews SearchResults.PHP Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14589

PHPFreeNews Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14590

PHPTB Topic Board Multiple Remote File Include Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14592

Mediabox404 Login_Admin_Mediabox404.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14593

W-Agora Site Parameter Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14597

ATutor Login.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14598

PHPOutsourcing Zorum Prod.PHP Arbitrary Command Execution Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14601

BBCaffe HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14602

Mantis Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14604

MyBulletinBoard Search.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14615

Woltlab Burning Board ModCP.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14617

Land Down Under Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14618

Land Down Under Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14619


RELATED STUFF
-------------
Adobe Acrobat and Adobe Reader Remote Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14603





From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:29 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #311
Message-ID: <20051022213448.7F79B11F76A@mailspool2.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #311

APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
PHP-Fusion Messages.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14489

SysCP Multiple Script Execution Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14490

Invision Power Board Attached File Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14492

PHPSiteStats Unspecified Authentication Bypass Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14493

OpenBB Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14494

E107 Website System Attached File Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14495

Gravity Board X Login SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14497

Gravity Board X DeleteThread.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14499

Gravity Board X CSS Template Unauthorized Access Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14502

MyFAQ Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14503

Calendar Express Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14504

Calendar Express Search.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14505

Chipmunk CMS Fontcolor Cross Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14506

FunkBoard Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14507

E107 Submitted Link HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14508

TriggerTG TClanPortal Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14516

XMB Forum U2U.Inc.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14523

WordPress Cookie Data PHP Code Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14533

EZUpload Multiple Remote File Include Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14534

PHPTB Topic Board Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14535

PHlyMail Unspecified Authentication Bypass Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14537

VegaDNS Index.PHP Cross Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14538

EQDKP Session.PHP Authorization Bypass Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14541

Gallery PostNuke Integration Access Validation Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14547

MyBulletinBoard Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14553

PHPBB BBCode IMG Tag Script Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14555

FUDForum Tree View Access Validation Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14556


RELATED STUFF
-------------
MySQL User-Defined Function Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14509





From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:32 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #310
Message-ID: <20051022213451.538019A592@mailspool3.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #310

APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
MySQL Eventum Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14436

MySQL Eventum Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14437

ChurchInfo Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14438

PHPFreeNews Multiple Cross Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14439

PHPFreeNews Admin Login SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14442

OpenBook Admin.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14444

Naxtor Shopping Cart Lost_password.PHP Cross Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14454

Naxtor Shopping Cart Shop_Display_Products.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14456

Web Content Management Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14464

Web Content Management Administrator Account Unauthorized Access Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14465

Silvernews Admin.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14466

LogiCampus Helpdesk Unspecified Cross Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14472

PortailPHP Index.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14474

Comdev ECommerce Config.PHP Remote File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14478

Comdev eCommerce WCE.Download.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14479

Jax PHP Scripts Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14481

Jax PHP Scripts Multiple Remote Information Disclosure Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14482

PHPOpenChat Multiple HTML Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14484

FlatNuke Multiple Cross Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14483

FlatNuke User Data Arbitrary PHP Code Execution Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14485

PHP-Fusion Messages.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14489





From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:38 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:35:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #309
Message-ID: <20051022213457.25E1311F76A@mailspool2.panix.com>

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #309

APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
Beehive Forum Webtag Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14361

Beehive Forum Webtag Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14363

Atomic Photo Album Apa_PHPInclude.INC.PHP Remote File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14368

PHPFirstpost  Block.PHP Remote File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14371

VBZoom Forum Show.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14383

VBZooM Forum Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14423

 NETonE PHPBook Guestbook.PHP Cross Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14390

Advanced Guestbook User-Agent HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14391

PNG Counter Demo.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14392

Clever Copy Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14395

Clever Copy Private Message Unauthorized Access Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14397

Blue Magic Forum Multiple Cross Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14396

PHPList Admin Page SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14403

Website Baker Browse.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14404

Website Baker Arbitrary File Upload Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14406

Gforge Multiple Cross Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14405

Simplicity oF Upload Download.PHP Remote File Include Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14424

Kayako LiveResponse Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14425

PluggedOut CMS Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14426

PC-Experience/Toppe Unauthorized User Access Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14427

PC-Experience/Toppe PM.PHP MSG Parameter Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14428

Ragnarok Online Control Panel Authentication Bypass Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14429





From yournway at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 17:40:35 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:40:35 +0100
Subject: [nycphp-talk] about SecurityFocus Alerts
Message-ID: <edce57650510221440o46ab5e1es@mail.gmail.com>

Let me look at it from the bright side, no Joomla! alerts there...
Hey Mitch?, hehe
--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Oct 22 17:47:40 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:47:40 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] about SecurityFocus Alerts
In-Reply-To: <edce57650510221440o46ab5e1es@mail.gmail.com>
References: <edce57650510221440o46ab5e1es@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051022214740.GA19317@panix.com>

Howdy:

On Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 10:40:35PM +0100, Alberto dos Santos wrote:
> Let me look at it from the bright side, no Joomla! alerts there...

Sorry for the onslaught.  I've been busy with loads of other things and 
just got a moment to (write a script that automatically generates the 
text, helping me to...) catch up.

By the way, you can also catch these things in other formats:
RSS:  http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.xml
HTML: http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.html

See you,

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Sat Oct 22 18:03:24 2005
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:03:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
In-Reply-To: <001001c5d74a$21934ae0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221625110.56309@emra.pair.com>
	<001001c5d74a$21934ae0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221800560.95780@emra.pair.com>


Bingo.

Of course, the solution you suggest occurred to me as soon as I got into
the shower and adjusted the water temperature to my liking. You know:
step away from the machine, sir.

Thanks.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005, John Daly wrote:

> David,
>
> It looks like you're already setting the To: header when you set recipients
> and use it as the first argument to 'send'.  Leave out the $headers['To']
> and that should fix it.  I'm not familiar with this class, but there might
> be another association to set Name.
>
> JD
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Mintz" <dmintz at davidmintz.org>
> To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 4:36 PM
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
>
>
>
> Anybody see anything wrong with this?
>
> <?php
> $mailer = Mail::factory('mail');
> $recipients = 'dmintz at davidmintz.org';
> $headers['From']    = 'vernon at vernontbludgeon.com';
> $headers['To']      = '"David Mintz" <dmintz at davidmintz.org>';
> $headers['Subject'] = 'Test message';
> $body = "This test used the 'mail' backend and a To field that says:
> $header[To]";
> true === $result = $mailer->send($recipients, $headers, $body)
> or exit($result->getMessage());
> echo "ok\n" ;
> ?>

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/


From jdaly at panix.com  Sat Oct 22 18:09:52 2005
From: jdaly at panix.com (John Daly)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:09:52 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221625110.56309@emra.pair.com><001001c5d74a$21934ae0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221800560.95780@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c5d755$53f67560$6401a8c0@GUITAR>


Also, I tried it myself and found you can get the formatting you want by 
setting $recipients as follows, leaving out the $headers['To'] again.


$recipients = "John Daly <jdaly at panix.com>";
$headers['From']    = 'foo at bar.com';
//$headers['To']      = "John Daly <jdaly at panix.com>";

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Mintz" <dmintz at davidmintz.org>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity



Bingo.

Of course, the solution you suggest occurred to me as soon as I got into
the shower and adjusted the water temperature to my liking. You know:
step away from the machine, sir.

Thanks.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005, John Daly wrote:

> David,
>
> It looks like you're already setting the To: header when you set 
> recipients
> and use it as the first argument to 'send'.  Leave out the $headers['To']
> and that should fix it.  I'm not familiar with this class, but there might
> be another association to set Name.
>
> JD
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Mintz" <dmintz at davidmintz.org>
> To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 4:36 PM
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
>
>
>
> Anybody see anything wrong with this?
>
> <?php
> $mailer = Mail::factory('mail');
> $recipients = 'dmintz at davidmintz.org';
> $headers['From']    = 'vernon at vernontbludgeon.com';
> $headers['To']      = '"David Mintz" <dmintz at davidmintz.org>';
> $headers['Subject'] = 'Test message';
> $body = "This test used the 'mail' backend and a To field that says:
> $header[To]";
> true === $result = $mailer->send($recipients, $headers, $body)
> or exit($result->getMessage());
> echo "ok\n" ;
> ?>

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org 



From codebowl at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 20:47:22 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:47:22 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #309
In-Reply-To: <20051022213457.25E1311F76A@mailspool2.panix.com>
References: <20051022213457.25E1311F76A@mailspool2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510221747n7472f492o5d03f7fc386ff0b7@mail.gmail.com>

wow that was a lot for one day ;D

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From yournway at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 04:06:19 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:06:19 +0100
Subject: [nycphp-talk] about SecurityFocus Alerts
In-Reply-To: <20051022214740.GA19317@panix.com>
References: <edce57650510221440o46ab5e1es@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051022214740.GA19317@panix.com>
Message-ID: <edce57650510230106u455cca33h@mail.gmail.com>

np

On 22/10/05, Daniel Convissor <danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote:
> Howdy:
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 10:40:35PM +0100, Alberto dos Santos wrote:
> > Let me look at it from the bright side, no Joomla! alerts there...
>
> Sorry for the onslaught.  I've been busy with loads of other things and
> just got a moment to (write a script that automatically generates the
> text, helping me to...) catch up.
>
> By the way, you can also catch these things in other formats:
> RSS:  http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.xml
> HTML: http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.html
>
> See you,
>
> --Dan
>
> --
>  T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
>             data intensive web and database programming
>                 http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
>  4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Sun Oct 23 09:18:33 2005
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:18:33 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HAhahahahahahaha
Message-ID: <435B8DA9.5020306@tgaconnect.com>

shiflett at php.net writes:
>Marc said a lot that we already know, but keep in mind that his words
>carry a lot of weight in the business community, and they're not as
>close to the technology as we are. If this stuff wasn't news to them,
>it
>wouldn't be getting this much attention.

Its great that he is championing PHP.

But in terms of what the 'business community' thinks of him,
take a look at a weekly stock chart of OPSW (Opsware Inc) since
Jan of '04.

Jan 04  --  9.00
Jan 05  --  7.00
Recently -  5.00

'HAhahahahahahaha' sort of captures the spirit of it...

-- 
T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com

"There's nothing emerging right now.
Creativity stopped in 1997."
--  Marc Andreessen
--  PC World, April 07, 2003
     (around the 10th anniversary of Mosaic)





From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Sun Oct 23 15:02:54 2005
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:02:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
In-Reply-To: <003a01c5d755$53f67560$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221625110.56309@emra.pair.com><001001c5d74a$21934ae0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221800560.95780@emra.pair.com>
	<003a01c5d755$53f67560$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510231457190.95780@emra.pair.com>

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005, John Daly wrote:

>
> Also, I tried it myself and found you can get the formatting you want by
> setting $recipients as follows, leaving out the $headers['To'] again.
>
>
> $recipients = "John Daly <jdaly at panix.com>";
> $headers['From']    = 'foo at bar.com';
> //$headers['To']      = "John Daly <jdaly at panix.com>";

Exactly what I did. Seems that's the "right" way to do it, and all the
mail readers I worked with ~except~ pine were flexible enough to work with
me doing it "wrong."

One thing I'm not clear on (said he, modulating into another topic) is
whether we are supposed to put double-quotes around "John Daly," to use
your example. It appears that we are.

Thanks again.



---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/


From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 20:26:37 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:26:37 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] about SecurityFocus Alerts
In-Reply-To: <edce57650510221440o46ab5e1es@mail.gmail.com>
References: <edce57650510221440o46ab5e1es@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <330532b60510231726g4e56e48ax940471f437a348d7@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/22/05, Alberto dos Santos <yournway at gmail.com> wrote:
> Let me look at it from the bright side, no Joomla! alerts there...
> Hey Mitch?, hehe

Speaking of, one of the core developers was at a conference in Europe
where they ran an analysis on Joomla! and gave up after about a half
hour, with no major XSS issues found.

Not to say that we have all holes plugged, but we difinitely could be
doing worse ;-)

--
Mitch Pirtle
Joomla! Core Developer


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Mon Oct 24 08:35:57 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (W. @llen Shaw)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:35:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510231457190.95780@emra.pair.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221625110.56309@emra.pair.com><001001c5d74a$21934ae0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221800560.95780@emra.pair.com>	<003a01c5d755$53f67560$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510231457190.95780@emra.pair.com>
Message-ID: <435CD52D.5060100@polymerdb.org>

David Mintz wrote:
> One thing I'm not clear on (said he, modulating into another topic) is
> whether we are supposed to put double-quotes around "John Daly," to use
> your example. It appears that we are.

Right, me too, though it seems to me that rfc 2822 
(http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2822.txt) makes no mention of quoting 
the display-name.

However, it is true that if your display-name has any special characters 
in it (this includes the "period" character ".", among other things) and 
you don't double-quote it, PEAR Mail is going to refuse to send it, 
saying "validation failed for W. Allen Shaw <ashaw at polymerdb.org>"

Note this interesting snippet from RFC 2822:
>    Note: The "period" (or "full stop") character (".") in obs-phrase is
>    not a form that was allowed in earlier versions of this or any other
>    standard.  Period (nor any other character from specials) was not
>    allowed in phrase because it introduced a parsing difficulty
>    distinguishing between phrases and portions of an addr-spec (see
>    section 4.4).  It appears here because the period character is
>    currently used in many messages in the display-name portion of
>    addresses, especially for initials in names, and therefore must be
>    interpreted properly.  In the future, period may appear in the
>    regular syntax of phrase.

Apparently current email implementations are handling special characters 
in display-name on their own terms; I would think it's wise to use 
double-quotes around the display-name unless you know for sure they 
won't use special characters.

BTW, I'm glad you asked, as it gave me finally the extra curiosity to 
learn more.  Hopefully somebody will correct me if I'm wrong here.

Take care,
Allen


-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Oct 24 09:14:32 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:14:32 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] admin user/role management
Message-ID: <000201c5d89c$e08b4ad0$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>

It's time for me to change my admin section to more than yep/nay. Does
anyone know of an example of a comprehensive roles-based admin system. I
looked at the PEAR auth library, but didn't see anything.
 
Cliff Hirsch
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Oct 24 09:14:32 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:14:32 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
Message-ID: <000901c5d89c$e1fa1d10$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>

Presented during a NASA rapid application development talk. Very, very
interesting Framework. Worth looking into.
 
http://www.qcodo.com/
 
Cliff Hirsch
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From ken at secdat.com  Mon Oct 24 09:24:08 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:24:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] admin user/role management
In-Reply-To: <000201c5d89c$e08b4ad0$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
References: <000201c5d89c$e08b4ad0$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <35641.38.117.147.25.1130160248.squirrel@38.117.147.25>

If you are using a database-centric design, you can do something like this:

Table of groups (roles)

Table of modules
Table of tables
Xref groups to modules
Xref groups to tables

A group has default priveleges of ins, upd, del, sel.  The "Xref groups to
modules" overrides group settings for a module.  the "Xref groups to
tables" further overrides at the table level.

If you want to start off a little simpler, just to a table of roles and a
table of tables.


> It's time for me to change my admin section to more than yep/nay. Does
> anyone know of an example of a comprehensive roles-based admin system. I
> looked at the PEAR auth library, but didn't see anything.
>
> Cliff Hirsch
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Oct 24 09:25:42 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:25:42 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] admin user/role management
In-Reply-To: <000201c5d89c$e08b4ad0$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
References: <000201c5d89c$e08b4ad0$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <435CE0D6.5030500@phpwerx.net>

Cliff,

You may be interested in phpGACL (http://phpgacl.sourceforge.net/), 
which provides a framework for building very powerful ACL-based 
permission structures.

Dan

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> It's time for me to change my admin section to more than yep/nay. Does
> anyone know of an example of a comprehensive roles-based admin system. I
> looked at the PEAR auth library, but didn't see anything.
>  
> Cliff Hirsch



From dallas.devries at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 09:30:17 2005
From: dallas.devries at gmail.com (Dallas DeVries)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:30:17 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
In-Reply-To: <000901c5d89c$e1fa1d10$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
References: <000901c5d89c$e1fa1d10$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <1200dbac0510240630v663288c7o741a5a053ea77404@mail.gmail.com>

Easily the best session at the conference. It only works with MySQL right
now but creating additional db sources doesn't look too bad.

On 10/24/05, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
> Presented during a NASA rapid application development talk. Very, very
> interesting Framework. Worth looking into.
>  http://www.qcodo.com/
>  Cliff Hirsch
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
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From lists at genoverly.net  Mon Oct 24 10:26:41 2005
From: lists at genoverly.net (michael)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:26:41 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] http analyzer
In-Reply-To: <mailman.168.1123163020.192.talk@lists.nyphp.org>
References: <mailman.168.1123163020.192.talk@lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <20051024102641.7964f19f@genoverly.com>

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 09:43:40 -0400
talk-request at lists.nyphp.org wrote:

> http://www.portswigger.net/proxy/
> http://www.xk72.com/charles/


I'm revisitting this thread.  

While the above mentioned http analyzers are java based, I like their
functionality.  I've been poking around freshmeat searching for 'http'
or 'proxy' but nothing is jumping out at me. 

Does anyone have any suggestions for non-java solutions.. aside from telnet?


Michael


From codebowl at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 10:31:53 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:31:53 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
In-Reply-To: <1200dbac0510240630v663288c7o741a5a053ea77404@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000901c5d89c$e1fa1d10$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
	<1200dbac0510240630v663288c7o741a5a053ea77404@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510240731h2c5aa11g42c2d21eaa148e24@mail.gmail.com>

Drawback is that most clients now dont want to move to php5, some hosts dont
support it etc.. this is why i have not adapted PRADO yet ;(

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From max at neuropunks.org  Mon Oct 24 10:30:00 2005
From: max at neuropunks.org (Max Gribov)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:30:00 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] phpMyAdmin 2.6.4-pl3 problem
Message-ID: <435CEFE8.7000309@neuropunks.org>

Hello,
I am having an authentication issue with phpmyadmin 2.6.4-pl3.
The auth mechanism is set to 'cookie', but I cannot get any users to login.
I get

051024  9:19:53   31443 Connect pmacontrol at xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx on
31443 Query       SELECT VERSION() AS version
31444 Connect Access denied for user: 'user at xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx' (Using
password: YES)

in the log file.
MySQL stores all user passwords using its internal password('password')
function. Proper access lists are defined for both pmacontrol at ip and for
user at ip
I ran all GRANT statements from documentation.
pmacontrol user, as well as the user Im trying to use, are able to login
from the host with mysql -h db -u user -p command, I tested it, and I
can do select's on mysql database.

config.inc.php for phpmyadmin:

$cfg['PmaAbsoluteUri'] = 'https://mysql.xxx.com/';
$cfg['blowfish_secret'] = 'bw_password';
$cfg['Servers'][$i]['host']          = 'db';
$cfg['Servers'][$i]['controluser']   = 'pmacontroluser';
$cfg['Servers'][$i]['controlpass']   = 'password';
$cfg['Servers'][$i]['auth_type']     = 'cookie';
$cfg['Servers'][$i]['user']          = '';
$cfg['Servers'][$i]['password']      = '';
$cfg['Servers'][$i]['pmadb']         = 'phpmyadmin';

Everything else is default, database phpmyadmin exists (not really
relevant for this it seems), my browser works fine with cookies.
I followed all the instructions from documentation, did a bunch of flush
privileges; from mysql, but still nothing works.
Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thank you very much!
max



From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Oct 24 10:58:23 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:58:23 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800510240731h2c5aa11g42c2d21eaa148e24@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c5d8ab$658f3b20$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>

Seems like few hosts do support it. But a BIG part of the conference,
heard time and time again from many presenters, was how wonderful PHP 5
is -- and for that matter, the new MySQL 5. Seems to me that if you have
enough clients, managing a dedicated server might be a good alternative.
Or even talk them into it. For a business -- a few hundred bucks a month
doesn't seem to bad.
 -----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:32 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference



Drawback is that most clients now dont want to move to php5, some hosts
dont support it etc.. this is why i have not adapted PRADO yet ;(

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com 

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From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 11:09:27 2005
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:09:27 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] admin user/role management
In-Reply-To: <435CE0D6.5030500@phpwerx.net>
References: <000201c5d89c$e08b4ad0$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
	<435CE0D6.5030500@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <4b1887110510240809y651579cbtb8f3b0516b492b48@mail.gmail.com>

Don't forget PEAR:LiveUser. I'm about to embark upon this same road
today. Lukas Smith wrote a good article for PHP Magazine explaining
its usage a little.

http://www.php-mag.net/itr/online_artikel/psecom,id,595,nodeid,114.html

---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
http://jeff.loiselles.com


From rsd at electronink.com  Mon Oct 24 11:14:23 2005
From: rsd at electronink.com (Russ Demarest)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:14:23 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] phpMyAdmin 2.6.4-pl3 problem
In-Reply-To: <435CEFE8.7000309@neuropunks.org>
References: <435CEFE8.7000309@neuropunks.org>
Message-ID: <050FDC09-B09F-4758-98D4-41D49FB51581@electronink.com>

I had a similar problem. The mysql client was not the same version as  
the server. I upgraded and the problem went away.

Good Luck,
On Oct 24, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Max Gribov wrote:

> Hello,
> I am having an authentication issue with phpmyadmin 2.6.4-pl3.
> The auth mechanism is set to 'cookie', but I cannot get any users  
> to login.
> I get
>
> 051024  9:19:53   31443 Connect pmacontrol at xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx on
> 31443 Query       SELECT VERSION() AS version
> 31444 Connect Access denied for user: 'user at xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx' (Using
> password: YES)
>
> in the log file.
> MySQL stores all user passwords using its internal password 
> ('password')
> function. Proper access lists are defined for both pmacontrol at ip  
> and for
> user at ip
> I ran all GRANT statements from documentation.
> pmacontrol user, as well as the user Im trying to use, are able to  
> login
> from the host with mysql -h db -u user -p command, I tested it, and I
> can do select's on mysql database.
>
> config.inc.php for phpmyadmin:
>
> $cfg['PmaAbsoluteUri'] = 'https://mysql.xxx.com/';
> $cfg['blowfish_secret'] = 'bw_password';
> $cfg['Servers'][$i]['host']          = 'db';
> $cfg['Servers'][$i]['controluser']   = 'pmacontroluser';
> $cfg['Servers'][$i]['controlpass']   = 'password';
> $cfg['Servers'][$i]['auth_type']     = 'cookie';
> $cfg['Servers'][$i]['user']          = '';
> $cfg['Servers'][$i]['password']      = '';
> $cfg['Servers'][$i]['pmadb']         = 'phpmyadmin';
>
> Everything else is default, database phpmyadmin exists (not really
> relevant for this it seems), my browser works fine with cookies.
> I followed all the instructions from documentation, did a bunch of  
> flush
> privileges; from mysql, but still nothing works.
> Can anyone shed some light on this?
>
> Thank you very much!
> max
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
>



From rolan at omnistep.com  Mon Oct 24 11:31:16 2005
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:31:16 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] phpMyAdmin 2.6.4-pl3 problem
In-Reply-To: <050FDC09-B09F-4758-98D4-41D49FB51581@electronink.com>
References: <435CEFE8.7000309@neuropunks.org>
	<050FDC09-B09F-4758-98D4-41D49FB51581@electronink.com>
Message-ID: <435CFE44.1010506@omnistep.com>

It is not necessary to upgrade the mysql client, but you do have to jump 
through an extra hoop to get it working.

do an
update user set password=old_password('yourpassword') where 
user='user at xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx';
to the "mysql" database as the root/admin user.

An alternative way is to add "old_passwords" to your my.cnf file then 
restart mysql.

~Rolan

Russ Demarest wrote:

>I had a similar problem. The mysql client was not the same version as  
>the server. I upgraded and the problem went away.
>
>
>On Oct 24, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Max Gribov wrote:
>  
>
>>Hello,
>>I am having an authentication issue with phpmyadmin 2.6.4-pl3.
>>The auth mechanism is set to 'cookie', but I cannot get any users  
>>to login.
>>I get
>>
>>051024  9:19:53   31443 Connect pmacontrol at xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx on
>>31443 Query       SELECT VERSION() AS version
>>31444 Connect Access denied for user: 'user at xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx' (Using
>>password: YES)
>>
>>    
>>
>  
>


From rolan at omnistep.com  Mon Oct 24 11:31:51 2005
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:31:51 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] phpMyAdmin 2.6.4-pl3 problem
In-Reply-To: <050FDC09-B09F-4758-98D4-41D49FB51581@electronink.com>
References: <435CEFE8.7000309@neuropunks.org>
	<050FDC09-B09F-4758-98D4-41D49FB51581@electronink.com>
Message-ID: <435CFE67.3080307@omnistep.com>

There seems to be a lot of discussion about this on
http://us3.php.net/function.mysql-connect
Go there for more ideas.

Russ Demarest wrote:

>I had a similar problem. The mysql client was not the same version as  
>the server. I upgraded and the problem went away.
>
>  
>
>  
>


From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 11:40:42 2005
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:40:42 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
In-Reply-To: <001c01c5d8ab$658f3b20$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
References: <8d9a42800510240731h2c5aa11g42c2d21eaa148e24@mail.gmail.com>
	<001c01c5d8ab$658f3b20$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <4b1887110510240840ha5928d9pce5f5407c563f9e0@mail.gmail.com>

> Seems to me that if you have enough
> clients, managing a dedicated server might be a good alternative. Or even
> talk them into it. For a business -- a few hundred bucks a month doesn't
> seem to bad.

It gets even as cheap as $30/month at Serverpronto.com whom I use.

However, don't forget all the administration time. Managing a server
is also a full time job, especially when you're managing mail and all
its associated problems, and not to mention customer support. I've
been bitten in the ass by this problem before.

---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
http://jeff.loiselles.com


From max at neuropunks.org  Mon Oct 24 11:42:23 2005
From: max at neuropunks.org (Max Gribov)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:42:23 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] phpMyAdmin 2.6.4-pl3 problem
In-Reply-To: <435CFE67.3080307@omnistep.com>
References: <435CEFE8.7000309@neuropunks.org>	<050FDC09-B09F-4758-98D4-41D49FB51581@electronink.com>
	<435CFE67.3080307@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <435D00DF.9040302@neuropunks.org>

Just tried this.
Still no effect after running this SQL query, and more, when i put
old_passwords into my.cnf or run mysql with --old-passwords and try to
shutdown and then start mysql, it fails to start, with no errors in any
log files, but once I remove that, it starts fine.
Also, at that link it talks about PHP's incompatibility with MySQL's 4.1
and up passwords, but this is PHP5 with MySQL 4.0.18, and I know
password authentication works for other applications on that host
written in PHP and using that database..
Russ, both client and server are same version..
I am upgrading MySQL to 5, its a shot in the dark, but maybe that will
solve this issue.
Other than that, I am totally stumped..



Rolan Yang wrote:

>There seems to be a lot of discussion about this on
>http://us3.php.net/function.mysql-connect
>Go there for more ideas.
>
>Russ Demarest wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I had a similar problem. The mysql client was not the same version as  
>>the server. I upgraded and the problem went away.
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>  
>



From chsnyder at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 11:55:17 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:55:17 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
In-Reply-To: <4b1887110510240840ha5928d9pce5f5407c563f9e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510240731h2c5aa11g42c2d21eaa148e24@mail.gmail.com>
	<001c01c5d8ab$658f3b20$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
	<4b1887110510240840ha5928d9pce5f5407c563f9e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510240855r484860ddr5794fd6a2b207998@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/24/05, Jeff Loiselle <jeff.loiselle at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Seems to me that if you have enough
> > clients, managing a dedicated server might be a good alternative. Or even
> > talk them into it. For a business -- a few hundred bucks a month doesn't
> > seem to bad.
>
> It gets even as cheap as $30/month at Serverpronto.com whom I use.
>
> However, don't forget all the administration time. Managing a server
> is also a full time job, especially when you're managing mail and all
> its associated problems, and not to mention customer support. I've
> been bitten in the ass by this problem before.
>

It depends on your setup, of course. If you use a stable OS and
outsource your email you can reduce your system administration
overhead to 1-2 hours per month. It's only a full time job when you
are setting up a new client or something goes wrong.

--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From yournway at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 11:59:54 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:59:54 +0100
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510240855r484860ddr5794fd6a2b207998@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510240731h2c5aa11g42c2d21eaa148e24@mail.gmail.com>
	<001c01c5d8ab$658f3b20$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
	<4b1887110510240840ha5928d9pce5f5407c563f9e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510240855r484860ddr5794fd6a2b207998@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <edce57650510240859n5f81275eg@mail.gmail.com>

Anybody tried it, Qcodo?

I've just installed it and it keeps saying:

Fatal error: Class 'MySqli' not found in
F:\projectos\qCodo\includes\qcodo\database_adapters\MySqliDatabase.inc
on line 113

Now, everything is as it should be, acording to the readme file.

Clues, anyone?

I'm using the latest xampp, apache2 php5, and so on and so forth.

Demo looks great, though, hehe.

Thanks.

--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.


From shiflett at php.net  Mon Oct 24 12:01:27 2005
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:01:27 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] http analyzer
In-Reply-To: <20051024102641.7964f19f@genoverly.com>
References: <mailman.168.1123163020.192.talk@lists.nyphp.org>
	<20051024102641.7964f19f@genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <435D0557.6070208@php.net>

michael wrote:
> > http://www.portswigger.net/proxy/
> > http://www.xk72.com/charles/
> 
> I'm revisitting this thread.  
> 
> While the above mentioned http analyzers are java based, I like
> their functionality. I've been poking around freshmeat searching
> for 'http' or 'proxy' but nothing is jumping out at me.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions for non-java solutions.. aside
> from telnet?

Have you looked at LiveHTTPHeaders? It's a Firefox plugin rather than a 
proxy, but it's good enough for most situations. I find it a tad 
frustrating when I need to view the content, and there are some other 
things that annoy me, but it's worth checking out.

There's also this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/protoscope/

I wrote it back in the late 90s and reworked it a bit a few years later. 
It's nothing great, but it works most of the time. :-)

Hope that helps.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy
http://brainbulb.com/


From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 12:02:24 2005
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:02:24 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
In-Reply-To: <edce57650510240859n5f81275eg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510240731h2c5aa11g42c2d21eaa148e24@mail.gmail.com>
	<001c01c5d8ab$658f3b20$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
	<4b1887110510240840ha5928d9pce5f5407c563f9e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510240855r484860ddr5794fd6a2b207998@mail.gmail.com>
	<edce57650510240859n5f81275eg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b1887110510240902i3774b6cg71a4dfe00d9724a9@mail.gmail.com>

Does it require the ext/mysqli php extension?

On 10/24/05, Alberto dos Santos <yournway at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody tried it, Qcodo?
>
> I've just installed it and it keeps saying:
>
> Fatal error: Class 'MySqli' not found in
> F:\projectos\qCodo\includes\qcodo\database_adapters\MySqliDatabase.inc
> on line 113
>
> Now, everything is as it should be, acording to the readme file.
>
> Clues, anyone?
>
> I'm using the latest xampp, apache2 php5, and so on and so forth.
>
> Demo looks great, though, hehe.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Alberto dos Santos
> Consultor em TI
> IT Consultant
>
> http://www.yournway.com
> A internet ? sua maneira.
> The Internet your own way.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


--
---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
http://jeff.loiselles.com


From shiflett at php.net  Mon Oct 24 12:02:50 2005
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:02:50 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
In-Reply-To: <edce57650510240859n5f81275eg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510240731h2c5aa11g42c2d21eaa148e24@mail.gmail.com>
	<001c01c5d8ab$658f3b20$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
	<4b1887110510240840ha5928d9pce5f5407c563f9e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510240855r484860ddr5794fd6a2b207998@mail.gmail.com>
	<edce57650510240859n5f81275eg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435D05AA.30702@php.net>

Alberto dos Santos wrote:
> Fatal error: Class 'MySqli' not found in
> F:\projectos\qCodo\includes\qcodo\database_adapters\MySqliDatabase.inc
> on line 113

Sounds to me like you need mysqli or need to choose another database 
adapter. :-)

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy
http://brainbulb.com/


From dallas.devries at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 12:04:43 2005
From: dallas.devries at gmail.com (Dallas DeVries)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:04:43 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
In-Reply-To: <4b1887110510240902i3774b6cg71a4dfe00d9724a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510240731h2c5aa11g42c2d21eaa148e24@mail.gmail.com>
	<001c01c5d8ab$658f3b20$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
	<4b1887110510240840ha5928d9pce5f5407c563f9e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510240855r484860ddr5794fd6a2b207998@mail.gmail.com>
	<edce57650510240859n5f81275eg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b1887110510240902i3774b6cg71a4dfe00d9724a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1200dbac0510240904n6992d4e5h9da6604c5d794a8a@mail.gmail.com>

http://qcodo.com/forums/topic.php/2

On 10/24/05, Jeff Loiselle <jeff.loiselle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does it require the ext/mysqli php extension?
>
> On 10/24/05, Alberto dos Santos <yournway at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Anybody tried it, Qcodo?
> >
> > I've just installed it and it keeps saying:
> >
> > Fatal error: Class 'MySqli' not found in
> > F:\projectos\qCodo\includes\qcodo\database_adapters\MySqliDatabase.inc
> > on line 113
> >
> > Now, everything is as it should be, acording to the readme file.
> >
> > Clues, anyone?
> >
> > I'm using the latest xampp, apache2 php5, and so on and so forth.
> >
> > Demo looks great, though, hehe.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Alberto dos Santos
> > Consultor em TI
> > IT Consultant
> >
> > http://www.yournway.com
> > A internet ? sua maneira.
> > The Internet your own way.
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> > AMP Technology
> > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > http://www.nyphp.org
> >
>
>
> --
> ---
> Jeff Loiselle
> Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
> http://jeff.loiselles.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
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From yournway at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 12:14:20 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:14:20 +0100
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Qcodo Framework -- from Zend Conference
In-Reply-To: <1200dbac0510240904n6992d4e5h9da6604c5d794a8a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510240731h2c5aa11g42c2d21eaa148e24@mail.gmail.com>
	<001c01c5d8ab$658f3b20$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>
	<4b1887110510240840ha5928d9pce5f5407c563f9e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510240855r484860ddr5794fd6a2b207998@mail.gmail.com>
	<edce57650510240859n5f81275eg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b1887110510240902i3774b6cg71a4dfe00d9724a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<1200dbac0510240904n6992d4e5h9da6604c5d794a8a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <edce57650510240914h48be7f64u@mail.gmail.com>

Doh!!!!

I've added msqli.dll on php.ini, and VROUUUUMMMM!

Thanks Chris, Jeff and Dallas.

--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.


From rolan at omnistep.com  Mon Oct 24 12:21:25 2005
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:21:25 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] phpMyAdmin 2.6.4-pl3 problem
In-Reply-To: <435D00DF.9040302@neuropunks.org>
References: <435CEFE8.7000309@neuropunks.org>	<050FDC09-B09F-4758-98D4-41D49FB51581@electronink.com>	<435CFE67.3080307@omnistep.com>
	<435D00DF.9040302@neuropunks.org>
Message-ID: <435D0A05.8080805@omnistep.com>

oops. I forgot to mention, after making changes you have to do a "flush 
privileges" to refresh the tables.

~Rolan

Max Gribov wrote:

>Just tried this.
>Still no effect after running this SQL query, and more, when i put
>old_passwords into my.cnf or run mysql with --old-passwords and try to
>shutdown and then start mysql, it fails to start, with no errors in any
>log files, but once I remove that, it starts fine.
>  
>
>  
>


From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Oct 24 12:20:31 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:20:31 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Long MySQL processes, connections
In-Reply-To: <6C52C4A2-D964-4A7A-A388-CE794EFFFFDF@matt-roberts.net>
Message-ID: <000001c5d8b6$dd8b5270$3dd9a8c0@MZ>



Matt Roberts wrote on Saturday, October 22, 2005 4:15 PM:
> I'm using mysql_connect() to access a MySQL database at the beginning
> of a PHP script.
> 
> This script does long process of a large recordset, and generally
> takes 30-40 minutes to process all records.
> 
> My question: what's the best way to handle this long connection?
> Could someone please explain the behind the scenes / best practice
> around MySQL var "wait_timeout" ?  Sometimes the process hangs -
> could it be related to this timeout variable?  As a workaround I
> connect and disconnect at the top and bottom of the processing loop -
> is this a bad idea?

I'd need more details to truly diagnose this (or even determine if there's
something wrong).  That said, wait_timeout isn't likely playing a role here.
It controls the timeout for inactive/idle connections.

The process hangs could be from a number of things, including hardware
limitations, large tasks during the course of normal processing, contension,
etc.  Again, without knowing what type of processing is being done, it's not
easy to determine what the problem is, and frankly, if there is even a
problem at all.  Depending on how many rows you're dealing with, the
timeframe might be ok.


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com





From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Oct 24 12:28:02 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:28:02 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] admin user/role management
In-Reply-To: <4b1887110510240809y651579cbtb8f3b0516b492b48@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c5d8b7$e78931b0$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop>

Thanks. LiveUser looks like the ticket, although a lot to digest.

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Jeff Loiselle
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:09 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] admin user/role management


Don't forget PEAR:LiveUser. I'm about to embark upon this same road
today. Lukas Smith wrote a good article for PHP Magazine explaining
its usage a little.

http://www.php-mag.net/itr/online_artikel/psecom,id,595,nodeid,114.html

---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
http://jeff.loiselles.com
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org



From lists at genoverly.net  Mon Oct 24 12:30:28 2005
From: lists at genoverly.net (michael)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:30:28 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] http analyzer
In-Reply-To: <435D0557.6070208@php.net>
References: <mailman.168.1123163020.192.talk@lists.nyphp.org>
	<20051024102641.7964f19f@genoverly.com> <435D0557.6070208@php.net>
Message-ID: <20051024123028.295318e0@genoverly.com>

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:01:27 -0400
Chris Shiflett <shiflett at php.net> wrote:

> michael wrote:
> > > http://www.portswigger.net/proxy/
> > > http://www.xk72.com/charles/
> > 
> > I'm revisitting this thread.  
> > 
> > While the above mentioned http analyzers are java based, I like
> > their functionality. I've been poking around freshmeat searching
> > for 'http' or 'proxy' but nothing is jumping out at me.
> > 
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for non-java solutions.. aside
> > from telnet?
> 
> Have you looked at LiveHTTPHeaders? It's a Firefox plugin rather than
> a  proxy, but it's good enough for most situations. I find it a tad 
> frustrating when I need to view the content, and there are some other 
> things that annoy me, but it's worth checking out.

ah.. should work well enough, thanks.
 
> There's also this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/protoscope/
> I wrote it back in the late 90s and reworked it a bit a few years
> later.  It's nothing great, but it works most of the time. :-)

yea, saw that.. I'm reading your 'http dev handbook' right now.

> Hope that helps.
> 
> Chris
 

Thanks again,

Michael


From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Oct 24 14:20:48 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:20:48 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] LAMP Scaling from Zend/Flicker Presentation
Message-ID: <009f01c5d8c7$acdddd80$0ba8a8c0@cliff>

Now that you're all having fun with Qcodo, you really need to take a
look at this. Ok, so it will cost a bit more than a $30 cheapo dedicated
server.
 
John Allspaw of Yahoo/Flicker gave a great presentation on serious LAMP
scaling infrastructure, starting with a single server and growing to
multiple servers, MySQL farms, load balancers and such, along with the
problems incurred along the way.
 
See: http://blog.flickr.com/flickrblog/2005/10/lamp.html
Click on the " <http://www.ludicorp.com/flickr/zend-talk.ppt> Hardware
Layouts for LAMP Installations" link.
 
Cliff Hirsch
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From matt at matt-roberts.net  Mon Oct 24 14:47:41 2005
From: matt at matt-roberts.net (Matt Roberts)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:47:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Long MySQL processes, connections
Message-ID: <59465.199.67.140.20.1130179661.squirrel@matt-roberts.net>



>I'd need more details to truly diagnose this (or even determine if there's
>something wrong).

Thanks Hans,

I did some performance tuning around my queries based on advice from this:
http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mysql/article.php/1382791

It seems to have sped up the routine significantly.

To boil it down to a "best practice" question: of the following two
routines, what is preferable in the general case?


Process A:
---------------------
Connect to mysql
for (~ 10k iterations){
    Query larger (500k rows) table in mysql
    Insert into same mysql
}
Disconnect from mysql
---------------------

Process B
---------------------
for (~ 10k iterations){
    Connect to mysql
    Query larger (500k rows) table in mysql
    Insert into same mysql
    Disconnect to mysql
}
----------------------



I've generally seen process A in all books I've read, but in my particular
example process B *seems* less error prone (but as you say Hans, it may
depend on many other details I'm leaving out here)

However, B looks kind of dumb and expensive to me - how costly is the
connect / disconnect operation?







----------------
m. roberts
matt at matt-roberts.net




From leegold at fastmail.fm  Tue Oct 25 13:40:01 2005
From: leegold at fastmail.fm (leegold)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:40:01 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] make thumbs from video files
Message-ID: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi,

Is there a way using PHP to make jpeg thumbs out of quicktime or windows
media files?
Preferably a batch job on a folder...

Thanks,
Lee G


From jdj at TruthOverComfort.com  Tue Oct 25 13:44:22 2005
From: jdj at TruthOverComfort.com (Jim Johnson)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:44:22 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] out-of-town inquiry: anybody here from the greater DC
	area?
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20051025133541.05cfaea8@mail.sligowebworks.com>

I'm one of a few folks trying to get some PHP community going here in the DC area.....with such a vibrant group as NYPHP just a short distance away, I'm hoping to find people on this list that may have been banished or otherwise find themselves in DC....we also have some high hopes and grand visions of getting the feds to do more open source in general and more PHP in particular.....

Any DC-area people, please give me a holler off-list.....thanks.....



Jim
http://public.xdi.org/=jdj

--
I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.  - Michelangelo




From ken at secdat.com  Tue Oct 25 14:24:33 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:24:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] make thumbs from video files
In-Reply-To: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <33011.38.117.147.25.1130264673.squirrel@38.117.147.25>

The online manual is great for keyword searches.  There are plenty of
functions to manipulate images, so you may also find something to do
snapshots out of vids.



> Hi,
>
> Is there a way using PHP to make jpeg thumbs out of quicktime or windows
> media files?
> Preferably a batch job on a folder...
>
> Thanks,
> Lee G
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From chsnyder at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 15:18:58 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:18:58 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] make thumbs from video files
In-Reply-To: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510251218m4124fd04hdb7ea44a2092be13@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/25/05, leegold <leegold at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there a way using PHP to make jpeg thumbs out of quicktime or windows
> media files?
> Preferably a batch job on a folder...
>

This is a big can of worms, due to the very large number of different
video codecs out there. Within the separate universes of QuickTime and
Windows Media, there are mpeg, mpeg2, mpeg4, motion-jpeg, DivX, h264,
Indio, Sorenson, etc etc etc.

Additionally, which frame do you choose to make the thumbnail from?
The first? It's often black. QuickTime files sometimes have a set
"poster frame" that the author has designated as a representative
still image. The same may be true of Windows Media files, I don't
know.

Google has obviously managed to solve this problem, though, see
http://video.google.com/


--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From rolan at omnistep.com  Tue Oct 25 16:45:51 2005
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:45:51 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] make thumbs from video files
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510251218m4124fd04hdb7ea44a2092be13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<b76252690510251218m4124fd04hdb7ea44a2092be13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435E997F.8030702@omnistep.com>

csnyder wrote:

>On 10/25/05, leegold <leegold at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Is there a way using PHP to make jpeg thumbs out of quicktime or windows
>>media files?
>>Preferably a batch job on a folder...
>>
>>    
>>
>
>This is a big can of worms, due to the very large number of different
>video codecs out there. Within the separate universes of QuickTime and
>Windows Media, there are mpeg, mpeg2, mpeg4, motion-jpeg, DivX, h264,
>Indio, Sorenson, etc etc etc.
>
>Additionally, which frame do you choose to make the thumbnail from?
>The first? It's often black. QuickTime files sometimes have a set
>"poster frame" that the author has designated as a representative
>still image. The same may be true of Windows Media files, I don't
>know.
>
>  
>

It's probably only a small can of worms though. There are only a handful 
of popular codec's to tackle. I don't think it's exculsively a php job 
though. There are a few windows and linux video "rippers" which will 
convert video to frames. Usenet binaries has been doing it for a long 
time now. Check out an example at:  
http://www.usenetbinaries.com/groups/alt.binaries.mpeg.videos/2005/10/24/h/1v.html

Another video.google.com example would be www.youtube.com

~Rolan




From cliff at pinestream.com  Tue Oct 25 17:01:01 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:01:01 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Implode a column of a multi-dim array
Message-ID: <002a01c5d9a7$34f16bd0$0ba8a8c0@cliff>

I am trying to implode one column of a multidimensional array:
 
$array = array[]['name'];                   
implode("string", $array[]['name']); 
 
Is there a simple function for extracting a single column of a
multidimensional array other than using a foreach statement?
 
Cliff Hirsch
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From leegold at fastmail.fm  Tue Oct 25 17:43:05 2005
From: leegold at fastmail.fm (leegold)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:43:05 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] make thumbs from video files
In-Reply-To: <435E997F.8030702@omnistep.com>
References: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<b76252690510251218m4124fd04hdb7ea44a2092be13@mail.gmail.com>
	<435E997F.8030702@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <1130276585.30312.246007578@webmail.messagingengine.com>


> >
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>Is there a way using PHP to make jpeg thumbs out of quicktime or windows
> >>media files?
> >>Preferably a batch job on a folder...
> >>
....snip...
Check out an example at:  
> http://www.usenetbinaries.com/groups/alt.binaries.mpeg.videos/2005/10/24/h/1v.html
> 
> Another video.google.com example would be www.youtube.com
> 

You would think there'd be a PHP class or script does does this...

I looked thru the manual but doesn't seem like a function that does it
out of the "starting gate"...

Thanks,
Lee G.


From rcozzol at optonline.net  Tue Oct 25 17:55:49 2005
From: rcozzol at optonline.net (Roland Cozzolino)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:55:49 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] make thumbs from video files
In-Reply-To: <1130276585.30312.246007578@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<b76252690510251218m4124fd04hdb7ea44a2092be13@mail.gmail.com>
	<435E997F.8030702@omnistep.com>
	<1130276585.30312.246007578@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <435EA9E5.8030801@optonline.net>

This is not trivial and requires you to either manually learn some of 
the codecs or use plugin libraries.  I don't really think this is 
something php is well suited for a believe writing an app in something 
like C with some of the standard libraries compiled in would be best..

leegold wrote:

>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>Is there a way using PHP to make jpeg thumbs out of quicktime or windows
>>>>media files?
>>>>Preferably a batch job on a folder...
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>....snip...
>Check out an example at:  
>  
>
>>http://www.usenetbinaries.com/groups/alt.binaries.mpeg.videos/2005/10/24/h/1v.html
>>
>>Another video.google.com example would be www.youtube.com
>>
>>    
>>
>
>You would think there'd be a PHP class or script does does this...
>
>I looked thru the manual but doesn't seem like a function that does it
>out of the "starting gate"...
>
>Thanks,
>Lee G.
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>  
>


From ken at secdat.com  Tue Oct 25 18:03:33 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:03:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] make thumbs from video files
In-Reply-To: <435EA9E5.8030801@optonline.net>
References: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<b76252690510251218m4124fd04hdb7ea44a2092be13@mail.gmail.com>
	<435E997F.8030702@omnistep.com>
	<1130276585.30312.246007578@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<435EA9E5.8030801@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <33405.38.117.147.25.1130277813.squirrel@38.117.147.25>

Well don't forget though that PHP is a wonderful glue language, using
backtick and exec you can run any existing CLI interface to any known
library.

...if you're on linux of course.

> This is not trivial and requires you to either manually learn some of
> the codecs or use plugin libraries.  I don't really think this is
> something php is well suited for a believe writing an app in something
> like C with some of the standard libraries compiled in would be best..
>
> leegold wrote:
>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>Is there a way using PHP to make jpeg thumbs out of quicktime or
>>>>> windows
>>>>>media files?
>>>>>Preferably a batch job on a folder...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>....snip...
>>Check out an example at:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.usenetbinaries.com/groups/alt.binaries.mpeg.videos/2005/10/24/h/1v.html
>>>
>>>Another video.google.com example would be www.youtube.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You would think there'd be a PHP class or script does does this...
>>
>>I looked thru the manual but doesn't seem like a function that does it
>>out of the "starting gate"...
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Lee G.
>>_______________________________________________
>>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>>AMP Technology
>>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>http://www.nyphp.org
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From rcozzol at optonline.net  Tue Oct 25 18:08:42 2005
From: rcozzol at optonline.net (Roland Cozzolino)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:08:42 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] make thumbs from video files
In-Reply-To: <33405.38.117.147.25.1130277813.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
References: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<b76252690510251218m4124fd04hdb7ea44a2092be13@mail.gmail.com>
	<435E997F.8030702@omnistep.com>
	<1130276585.30312.246007578@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<435EA9E5.8030801@optonline.net>
	<33405.38.117.147.25.1130277813.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
Message-ID: <435EACEA.9030109@optonline.net>

great point ... if you can find apps that take care of this for you then 
use php to call, log, manage and run everytyhing.  If you plan on 
building from scratch ... well ... that might be a but difficult.

Kenneth Downs wrote:

>Well don't forget though that PHP is a wonderful glue language, using
>backtick and exec you can run any existing CLI interface to any known
>library.
>
>...if you're on linux of course.
>
>  
>
>>This is not trivial and requires you to either manually learn some of
>>the codecs or use plugin libraries.  I don't really think this is
>>something php is well suited for a believe writing an app in something
>>like C with some of the standard libraries compiled in would be best..
>>
>>leegold wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is there a way using PHP to make jpeg thumbs out of quicktime or
>>>>>>windows
>>>>>>media files?
>>>>>>Preferably a batch job on a folder...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>....snip...
>>>Check out an example at:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>http://www.usenetbinaries.com/groups/alt.binaries.mpeg.videos/2005/10/24/h/1v.html
>>>>
>>>>Another video.google.com example would be www.youtube.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>You would think there'd be a PHP class or script does does this...
>>>
>>>I looked thru the manual but doesn't seem like a function that does it
>>>out of the "starting gate"...
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Lee G.
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>>>AMP Technology
>>>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>http://www.nyphp.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>>AMP Technology
>>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>http://www.nyphp.org
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>


From rich at f1central.net  Tue Oct 25 18:55:34 2005
From: rich at f1central.net (rich)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:55:34 +0200
Subject: [nycphp-talk] make thumbs from video files
In-Reply-To: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1130262001.5990.245987975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <435EB7E6.7090602@f1central.net>

leegold wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Is there a way using PHP to make jpeg thumbs out of quicktime or windows
>media files?
>Preferably a batch job on a folder...
>
>Thanks,
>Lee G
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
>
>
>  
>
how about this ...

http://ffmpeg-php.sourceforge.net/

cheers
rich

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From matt at jobsforge.com  Tue Oct 25 20:30:48 2005
From: matt at jobsforge.com (Matthew Terenzio)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:30:48 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] google down?
Message-ID: <ab64ee09672b7f514194fe89e36f3d6c@jobsforge.com>


off topic here but c'mon ,

For the first time ever I can't bring google up anyone else? quick



From ken at secdat.com  Tue Oct 25 20:49:40 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:49:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] google down?
In-Reply-To: <ab64ee09672b7f514194fe89e36f3d6c@jobsforge.com>
References: <ab64ee09672b7f514194fe89e36f3d6c@jobsforge.com>
Message-ID: <33651.38.117.147.25.1130287780.squirrel@38.117.147.25>

had some trouble with DNS, could not seem to find it.  This suggests
something is wrong in DNS.

>
> off topic here but c'mon ,
>
> For the first time ever I can't bring google up anyone else? quick
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From papillion at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 21:56:02 2005
From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:56:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] google down?
In-Reply-To: <33651.38.117.147.25.1130287780.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
References: <ab64ee09672b7f514194fe89e36f3d6c@jobsforge.com>
	<33651.38.117.147.25.1130287780.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
Message-ID: <5458518f0510251856r6c3c828fuf35f1aff8fe32f79@mail.gmail.com>

According to the Internet Traffic Report, there may be some problem here in
North America. We're usally in the high 80's to mid 90's but it seems right
now we're in the mid 70's. Looks like Qwest and UU.net are having some MAJOR
problems (qwest is totally down right now).

http://www.internettrafficreport.com/main.htm

Anthony




On 10/25/05, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>
> had some trouble with DNS, could not seem to find it. This suggests
> something is wrong in DNS.
>
> >
> > off topic here but c'mon ,
> >
> > For the first time ever I can't bring google up anyone else? quick
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> > AMP Technology
> > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > http://www.nyphp.org
> >
>
>
> --
> Kenneth Downs
> Secure Data Software
> 631-379-0010
> ken at secdat.com
> PO Box 708
> East Setauket, NY 11733
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>



--
Anthony Papillion
Phone: (918) 926-0139
ICQ: 96-698-595

CAN ONE VOICE CHANGE THE WORLD?
http://www.one.org
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From plehrer at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 23:37:25 2005
From: plehrer at gmail.com (Peter Lehrer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:37:25 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] google down?
In-Reply-To: <5458518f0510251856r6c3c828fuf35f1aff8fe32f79@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ab64ee09672b7f514194fe89e36f3d6c@jobsforge.com>
	<33651.38.117.147.25.1130287780.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
	<5458518f0510251856r6c3c828fuf35f1aff8fe32f79@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f002fa910510252037g64ae7c27he2e9b470bd13dfe6@mail.gmail.com>

I've been having some problems connection problems with google too.
 Peter Lehrer

 On 10/25/05, Anthony Papillion <papillion at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> According to the Internet Traffic Report, there may be some problem here
> in North America. We're usally in the high 80's to mid 90's but it seems
> right now we're in the mid 70's. Looks like Qwest and UU.net are having
> some MAJOR problems (qwest is totally down right now).
>
> http://www.internettrafficreport.com/main.htm
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
>
> On 10/25/05, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
> >
> > had some trouble with DNS, could not seem to find it. This suggests
> > something is wrong in DNS.
> >
> > >
> > > off topic here but c'mon ,
> > >
> > > For the first time ever I can't bring google up anyone else? quick
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> > > AMP Technology
> > > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > > http://www.nyphp.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kenneth Downs
> > Secure Data Software
> > 631-379-0010
> > ken at secdat.com
> > PO Box 708
> > East Setauket, NY 11733
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> > AMP Technology
> > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > http://www.nyphp.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Anthony Papillion
> Phone: (918) 926-0139
> ICQ: 96-698-595
>
> CAN ONE VOICE CHANGE THE WORLD?
> http://www.one.org
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
>
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From andrew at plexpod.com  Wed Oct 26 12:00:21 2005
From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:00:21 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Implode a column of a multi-dim array
In-Reply-To: <002a01c5d9a7$34f16bd0$0ba8a8c0@cliff>
References: <002a01c5d9a7$34f16bd0$0ba8a8c0@cliff>
Message-ID: <20051026160020.GG6247@desario.homelinux.net>

On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 05:01:01PM -0400, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> I am trying to implode one column of a multidimensional array:
>  
> $array = array[]['name'];                   
> implode("string", $array[]['name']); 
>  
> Is there a simple function for extracting a single column of a
> multidimensional array other than using a foreach statement?

I'm not 100% clear on what you're looking to do, but this might be an
alternative to a foreach if your intention is to get the value of every
"name" for each index:

    $records =  array(
        array ('name'=>'foo', 'junk'=>'asdf'),
        array ('name'=>'bar', 'junk'=>'asdf'),
        );
    function get_name($array) { return $array['name']; }
    $names = implode(', ', array_map('get_name', $records));
    // $names is 'foo, bar'

HTH,
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Oct 26 12:49:12 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:49:12 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Implode a column of a multi-dim array
In-Reply-To: <20051026160020.GG6247@desario.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <001601c5da4d$316c3840$0ba8a8c0@cliff>

Interesting solution. array_map with a callback makes my head spin a
bit! I'll try to benchmark this solution versus foreach to see which is
faster and will report back.

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Andrew Yochum
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:00 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Implode a column of a multi-dim array


On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 05:01:01PM -0400, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> I am trying to implode one column of a multidimensional array:
>  
> $array = array[]['name'];                   
> implode("string", $array[]['name']);
>  
> Is there a simple function for extracting a single column of a 
> multidimensional array other than using a foreach statement?

I'm not 100% clear on what you're looking to do, but this might be an
alternative to a foreach if your intention is to get the value of every
"name" for each index:

    $records =  array(
        array ('name'=>'foo', 'junk'=>'asdf'),
        array ('name'=>'bar', 'junk'=>'asdf'),
        );
    function get_name($array) { return $array['name']; }
    $names = implode(', ', array_map('get_name', $records));
    // $names is 'foo, bar'

HTH,
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org



From leegold at fastmail.fm  Wed Oct 26 13:49:56 2005
From: leegold at fastmail.fm (leegold)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:49:56 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] xampp security patching
Message-ID: <1130348996.25882.246081557@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I use xampp locally on my pc for php development.

For a server open to the public is the patching strategy exactly the
same if the all the components were individually installed?

I asumme the default install would have to be hardened - any Xampp docs
on this vs. separate docs for each component?

What is the stratagy to take?

Thanks,
Lee G>


From dwclifton at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 00:19:56 2005
From: dwclifton at gmail.com (Douglas Clifton)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:19:56 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 29, Issue 42
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1130256002.46287.talk@lists.nyphp.org>
References: <mailman.0.1130256002.46287.talk@lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <7d6cdcb0510262119y7c38df3bxf6e8a5858f785c7@mail.gmail.com>

Connecting is expensive, connecting over a wire is
VERY expensive. Consider a persistent connection.

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Matt Roberts" <matt at matt-roberts.net>
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:47:41 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Long MySQL processes, connections

> I did some performance tuning around my queries based on advice from this:
> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mysql/article.php/1382791
>
> It seems to have sped up the routine significantly.
>
> To boil it down to a "best practice" question: of the following two
> routines, what is preferable in the general case?
>
>
> Process A:
> ---------------------
> Connect to mysql
> for (~ 10k iterations){
>     Query larger (500k rows) table in mysql
>     Insert into same mysql
> }
> Disconnect from mysql
> ---------------------
>
> Process B
> ---------------------
> for (~ 10k iterations){
>     Connect to mysql
>     Query larger (500k rows) table in mysql
>     Insert into same mysql
>     Disconnect to mysql
> }
> ----------------------
>
> I've generally seen process A in all books I've read, but in my particular
> example process B *seems* less error prone (but as you say Hans, it may
> depend on many other details I'm leaving out here)
>
> However, B looks kind of dumb and expensive to me - how costly is the
> connect / disconnect operation?

--
Douglas Clifton
dwclifton at gmail.com
http://loadaveragezero.com/
http://loadaveragezero.com/app/s9y/
http://loadaveragezero.com/drx/rss/recent


From lists at zaunere.com  Thu Oct 27 11:52:55 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:52:55 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] out-of-town inquiry: anybody here from the greater
	DCarea?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20051025133541.05cfaea8@mail.sligowebworks.com>
Message-ID: <000001c5db0e$809d6170$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>



Jim Johnson wrote on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:44 PM:
> I'm one of a few folks trying to get some PHP community going here in
> the DC area.....with such a vibrant group as NYPHP just a short
> distance away, I'm hoping to find people on this list that may have
> been banished or otherwise find themselves in DC....we also have some
> high hopes and grand visions of getting the feds to do more open
> source in general and more PHP in particular.....     
> 
> Any DC-area people, please give me a holler off-list.....thanks.....

For public reference, there has been a group started in DC.

http://www.dcphp.com

I haven't spoke to the founding member in some time, but things were off to
a good start, and fed open source involvement was mentioned.  As things
evolve in DC, NYPHP would also be interested in partnering to see what PHP
interest there is in the fed.


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From lists at zaunere.com  Thu Oct 27 11:52:55 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:52:55 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Long MySQL processes, connections
In-Reply-To: <59465.199.67.140.20.1130179661.squirrel@matt-roberts.net>
Message-ID: <000101c5db0e$8159ac90$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>



Matt Roberts wrote on Monday, October 24, 2005 2:48 PM:
> > I'd need more details to truly diagnose this (or even determine if
> > there's something wrong).
> 
> Thanks Hans,
> 
> I did some performance tuning around my queries based on advice from
> this:
> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mysql/article.php/1382791 
> 
> It seems to have sped up the routine significantly.
> 
> To boil it down to a "best practice" question: of the following two
> routines, what is preferable in the general case?
> 
> 
> Process A:
> ---------------------
> Connect to mysql
> for (~ 10k iterations){
>     Query larger (500k rows) table in mysql
>     Insert into same mysql
> }
> Disconnect from mysql
> ---------------------
> 
> Process B
> ---------------------
> for (~ 10k iterations){
>     Connect to mysql
>     Query larger (500k rows) table in mysql
>     Insert into same mysql
>     Disconnect to mysql
> }
> ----------------------
> 
> 
> 
> I've generally seen process A in all books I've read, but in my
> particular example process B *seems* less error prone (but as you say
> Hans, it may depend on many other details I'm leaving out here)

'A' is the way it should be done.  If things are slowing down as the process
goes on, then there's likely some type of memory/resource leak somewhere.
When implementing process A it'll be important to close/free the various
resources and handles that get created.  While PHP does do automatic garbage
collection, I've found that when doing intensive long running operations,
the best-practice of freeing resources is more important.

> However, B looks kind of dumb and expensive to me - how costly is the
> connect / disconnect operation?

It is.  Connection buildup/tear-down with MySQL is probably the lightest of
any RDBMS, however there is overhead of course.  If you were using Oracle,
for example, you'd see a considerable delay during connect/disconnect; so
much so, that you'd likely not even consider it an option.


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 12:12:25 2005
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:12:25 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Logic Help
Message-ID: <4b1887110510270912j7527792bj4c0d5166e0bf80f9@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I will submit that am really just not smart enough to figure this out.
My logic sucks. Why am I a programmer? I don't know. Someone must have
drugged me the day I picked my career. But I have records in a
database that look like this..

array(
  'id',
  'name' ,
  'parent_id'
)

I want to build a tree.

So far I have..

while ($record->fetch()) {
  $tree[$record->parent_id][$record->id] = $record->name;
}

That produces something like this.

Array
(
    [] => Array
        (
            [1] => General
        )

    [1] => Array
        (
            [2] => Diseases
            [5] => Technologies
            [6] => Financial Data
        )

    [2] => Array
        (
            [3] => Eg 1
            [4] => Eg 2
        )

    [6] => Array
        (
            [7] => Articles
            [8] => Models
            [9] => Comps
        )

)

Now how can I go about appending each node to its matching parent? Or
is there a completely better way?

Have I made any sense? ;-)


---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
http://jeff.loiselles.com


From glenn310b at mac.com  Thu Oct 27 12:32:19 2005
From: glenn310b at mac.com (Glenn)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:32:19 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Long MySQL processes, connections
In-Reply-To: <000101c5db0e$8159ac90$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
References: <000101c5db0e$8159ac90$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
Message-ID: <4e2c26fb03ef685749949ecf195aa512@mac.com>

maybe cooking up something with manual locks and handler
would help?

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/handler.html

glenn

On Oct 27, 2005, at 11:52 AM, Hans Zaunere wrote:

>
>
> Matt Roberts wrote on Monday, October 24, 2005 2:48 PM:
>>> I'd need more details to truly diagnose this (or even determine if
>>> there's something wrong).
>>
>> Thanks Hans,
>>
>> I did some performance tuning around my queries based on advice from
>> this:
>> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mysql/article.php/1382791
>>
>> It seems to have sped up the routine significantly.
>>
>> To boil it down to a "best practice" question: of the following two
>> routines, what is preferable in the general case?
>>
>>
>> Process A:
>> ---------------------
>> Connect to mysql
>> for (~ 10k iterations){
>>     Query larger (500k rows) table in mysql
>>     Insert into same mysql
>> }
>> Disconnect from mysql
>> ---------------------
>>
>> Process B
>> ---------------------
>> for (~ 10k iterations){
>>     Connect to mysql
>>     Query larger (500k rows) table in mysql
>>     Insert into same mysql
>>     Disconnect to mysql
>> }
>> ----------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> I've generally seen process A in all books I've read, but in my
>> particular example process B *seems* less error prone (but as you say
>> Hans, it may depend on many other details I'm leaving out here)
>
> 'A' is the way it should be done.  If things are slowing down as the 
> process
> goes on, then there's likely some type of memory/resource leak 
> somewhere.
> When implementing process A it'll be important to close/free the 
> various
> resources and handles that get created.  While PHP does do automatic 
> garbage
> collection, I've found that when doing intensive long running 
> operations,
> the best-practice of freeing resources is more important.
>
>> However, B looks kind of dumb and expensive to me - how costly is the
>> connect / disconnect operation?
>
> It is.  Connection buildup/tear-down with MySQL is probably the 
> lightest of
> any RDBMS, however there is overhead of course.  If you were using 
> Oracle,
> for example, you'd see a considerable delay during connect/disconnect; 
> so
> much so, that you'd likely not even consider it an option.
>
>
> ---
> Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
>    www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>



From rcozzol at optonline.net  Thu Oct 27 12:32:21 2005
From: rcozzol at optonline.net (Roland Cozzolino)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:32:21 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Logic Help
In-Reply-To: <4b1887110510270912j7527792bj4c0d5166e0bf80f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b1887110510270912j7527792bj4c0d5166e0bf80f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43610115.1040601@optonline.net>

One solution is to change your DB design, but I imagine that is not an 
option.
That being said, if you are using balanced trees, you can implement a 
b-tree algorithm.
If you are using unbalanced trees (meaning, nodes can be any number, any 
depth, etc.) you could opt for a binary tree.

Jeff Loiselle wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I will submit that am really just not smart enough to figure this out.
>My logic sucks. Why am I a programmer? I don't know. Someone must have
>drugged me the day I picked my career. But I have records in a
>database that look like this..
>
>array(
>  'id',
>  'name' ,
>  'parent_id'
>)
>
>I want to build a tree.
>
>So far I have..
>
>while ($record->fetch()) {
>  $tree[$record->parent_id][$record->id] = $record->name;
>}
>
>That produces something like this.
>
>Array
>(
>    [] => Array
>        (
>            [1] => General
>        )
>
>    [1] => Array
>        (
>            [2] => Diseases
>            [5] => Technologies
>            [6] => Financial Data
>        )
>
>    [2] => Array
>        (
>            [3] => Eg 1
>            [4] => Eg 2
>        )
>
>    [6] => Array
>        (
>            [7] => Articles
>            [8] => Models
>            [9] => Comps
>        )
>
>)
>
>Now how can I go about appending each node to its matching parent? Or
>is there a completely better way?
>
>Have I made any sense? ;-)
>
>
>---
>Jeff Loiselle
>Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
>http://jeff.loiselles.com
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>  
>


From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Oct 27 12:36:05 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (cliff)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:36:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Logic Help
In-Reply-To: <4b1887110510270912j7527792bj4c0d5166e0bf80f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b1887110510270912j7527792bj4c0d5166e0bf80f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051027163605.M71805@pinestream.com>

id/parent id is a performance nightmare.

I use a Modified Preordered Tree Traversal (add left, right fields).
Google Modified Preordered Tree Traversal
Try: http://www.philbrodeur.com/tutorials/mptt/ to start

Cliff Hirsch

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:12:25 -0400, Jeff Loiselle wrote
> Hello,
> 
> I will submit that am really just not smart enough to figure this 
> out. My logic sucks. Why am I a programmer? I don't know. Someone 
> must have drugged me the day I picked my career. But I have records 
> in a database that look like this..
> 
> array(
>   'id',
>   'name' ,
>   'parent_id'
> )
> 
> I want to build a tree.
> 
> So far I have..
> 
> while ($record->fetch()) {
>   $tree[$record->parent_id][$record->id] = $record->name;
> }
> 
> That produces something like this.
> 
> Array
> (
>     [] => Array
>         (
>             [1] => General
>         )
> 
>     [1] => Array
>         (
>             [2] => Diseases
>             [5] => Technologies
>             [6] => Financial Data
>         )
> 
>     [2] => Array
>         (
>             [3] => Eg 1
>             [4] => Eg 2
>         )
> 
>     [6] => Array
>         (
>             [7] => Articles
>             [8] => Models
>             [9] => Comps
>         )
> 
> )
> 
> Now how can I go about appending each node to its matching parent? Or
> is there a completely better way?
> 
> Have I made any sense? ;-)
> 
> ---
> Jeff Loiselle
> Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
> http://jeff.loiselles.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org


From rcozzol at optonline.net  Thu Oct 27 12:49:38 2005
From: rcozzol at optonline.net (Roland Cozzolino)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:49:38 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Logic Help
In-Reply-To: <20051027163605.M71805@pinestream.com>
References: <4b1887110510270912j7527792bj4c0d5166e0bf80f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051027163605.M71805@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <43610522.9060107@optonline.net>

I agree completely (also called nested sets).  This can be implemented 
in both php and the DB for excellent performance, truly unbalanced trees 
and unlimited depth of parent-child.
You would end up with your object (id, name) and a left and right side 
numeric value.  A child is something where its left side > parents left 
and its right side < parents right
here is a poor textual representation (left side, right side):

            (1 ,10)
               |
         --------------
         |            |
      (2,7)        ( 8,9)
        |
    ----------
    |        |
(3,4)       (5,6)

cliff wrote:

>id/parent id is a performance nightmare.
>
>I use a Modified Preordered Tree Traversal (add left, right fields).
>Google Modified Preordered Tree Traversal
>Try: http://www.philbrodeur.com/tutorials/mptt/ to start
>
>Cliff Hirsch
>
>On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:12:25 -0400, Jeff Loiselle wrote
>  
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I will submit that am really just not smart enough to figure this 
>>out. My logic sucks. Why am I a programmer? I don't know. Someone 
>>must have drugged me the day I picked my career. But I have records 
>>in a database that look like this..
>>
>>array(
>>  'id',
>>  'name' ,
>>  'parent_id'
>>)
>>
>>I want to build a tree.
>>
>>So far I have..
>>
>>while ($record->fetch()) {
>>  $tree[$record->parent_id][$record->id] = $record->name;
>>}
>>
>>That produces something like this.
>>
>>Array
>>(
>>    [] => Array
>>        (
>>            [1] => General
>>        )
>>
>>    [1] => Array
>>        (
>>            [2] => Diseases
>>            [5] => Technologies
>>            [6] => Financial Data
>>        )
>>
>>    [2] => Array
>>        (
>>            [3] => Eg 1
>>            [4] => Eg 2
>>        )
>>
>>    [6] => Array
>>        (
>>            [7] => Articles
>>            [8] => Models
>>            [9] => Comps
>>        )
>>
>>)
>>
>>Now how can I go about appending each node to its matching parent? Or
>>is there a completely better way?
>>
>>Have I made any sense? ;-)
>>
>>---
>>Jeff Loiselle
>>Web Developer, Musician, and Observer
>>http://jeff.loiselles.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>>AMP Technology
>>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>http://www.nyphp.org
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>  
>


From smanes at magpie.com  Thu Oct 27 13:12:19 2005
From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:12:19 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Logic Help
In-Reply-To: <20051027163605.M71805@pinestream.com>
References: <4b1887110510270912j7527792bj4c0d5166e0bf80f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051027163605.M71805@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <43610A73.9080808@magpie.com>

cliff wrote:
>Now how can I go about appending each node to its matching parent? Or
>is there a completely better way?

All you need is a record number for each element and an "up" pointer in 
each child record pointing to its parent's record number.


From leegold at fastmail.fm  Thu Oct 27 15:48:13 2005
From: leegold at fastmail.fm (leegold)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:48:13 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] xampp security patching
In-Reply-To: <1130348996.25882.246081557@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1130348996.25882.246081557@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1130442493.13323.246181072@webmail.messagingengine.com>



On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:49:56 -0400, "leegold" <leegold at fastmail.fm>
said:
> I use xampp locally on my pc for php development.
> 
> For a server open to the public is the patching strategy exactly the
> same if the all the components were individually installed?

After reading more fully I see the idea is that xampp is a developer's
platforn - not really conceived as a hardened server...



From store at sewfastseweasy.com  Thu Oct 27 18:49:03 2005
From: store at sewfastseweasy.com (Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:49:03 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
Message-ID: <000001c5db48$a1276910$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>

We are looking for a Programmer in NYC to telecommute on projects.
A PHP coder with experience developing ecommerce sites, especially in a
shared hosting environment. Must have strong *nix skills. Must know
MySQL. Moderate to advanced Javascript and CSS. Some experience with
mod_rewrite helpful.

Must work well with understanding and modifying existing scripts. Must
have experience with PHP's cURL functions. Experience with cron a plus.

Please e-mail your qualifications to  <mailto:store at sewfastseweasy.com>
store at sewfastseweasy.com or fax them to 212-268-4321 with ATTN: Gregory
Garvin in the subject line


 


visit us at  <outbind://5/www.sewfastseweasy.com> www.sewfastseweasy.com
and buy the best beginner sewing book, "Sew Fast Sew Easy: All You Need
to Know When You Start to Sew" by Elissa Meyrich, sewing patterns,
online video learning, Stitch & Bitch products and classes.

 

 
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Oct 27 19:23:24 2005
From: cliff at pinestream.com (cliff)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:23:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c5db48$a1276910$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
References: <000001c5db48$a1276910$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
Message-ID: <20051027232324.M16080@pinestream.com>

What is the going rate/range for PHP programmers? At the Zend conference, 
one presenter said he paid $40-$50K. However, he did admit that his talent 
pool wasn't that skilled (we're not talking computer scientists). And he was 
located in a depressed, middle-of-nowhere town and his company was the only 
game around.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:49:03 -0400, Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy 
wrote
> We are looking for a Programmer in NYC to telecommute on projects.
> A PHP coder with experience developing ecommerce sites, especially 
> in a shared hosting environment. Must have strong *nix skills. Must know
> MySQL. Moderate to advanced Javascript and CSS. Some experience with
> mod_rewrite helpful.
> 
> Must work well with understanding and modifying existing scripts. 
> Must have experience with PHP's cURL functions. Experience with cron 
> a plus.
> 
> Please e-mail your qualifications to  <mailto:store at sewfastseweasy.com>
> store at sewfastseweasy.com or fax them to 212-268-4321 with ATTN: Gregory
> Garvin in the subject line

> visit us at  <outbind://5/www.sewfastseweasy.com> www.sewfastseweasy.com
> and buy the best beginner sewing book, "Sew Fast Sew Easy: All You Need
> to Know When You Start to Sew" by Elissa Meyrich, sewing patterns,
> online video learning, Stitch & Bitch products and classes.


From lists at zaunere.com  Thu Oct 27 19:28:04 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:28:04 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <009d01c5db4e$15927920$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>



Roland Cozzolino wrote on Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:09 PM:
> You can also use nested set theory.  This makes retrieval of parents,
> children, siblings, etc. extremely fast and efficient.  This also allows
> for an unlimited hierarchy.  The math is a bit more confusing at first,
> but quite trivial once you get it. The adjacency list model is
> significantly slower but much easier to understand.  A good link to help
> understand this is
>
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/001020/celko.jhtml?_requestid=1266295.
> Also note, that in Oracle, there is a specific function to deal with
> this ... postgres, mysql, sql server and others do not deal with
> hierarchical structures in flat format.  Hope this helps, although I am
> not sure what the question was in the first place.

Ahh, good old NSM...

New York PHP developed an implementation of NSM, pNSM, as part of the clew
project.

There is endless discussion on the NYPHP-Org mailing list, including
presentations and code here:

http://www.nyphp.org/content/presentations/nyphp/index.php?slide=2

http://cvs.nyphp.org/cvsweb.cgi/clew/lib/


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com





From jeff.knight at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 19:37:44 2005
From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:37:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c5db48$a1276910$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
References: <000001c5db48$a1276910$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
Message-ID: <2ca9ba910510271637l572441d9pbab09ea357d85e7@mail.gmail.com>

Please post all job openings to our jobs list at

http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs

On 10/27/05, Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy <store at sewfastseweasy.com>
wrote:
>
> something about a job...
>
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From fields at hedge.net  Thu Oct 27 19:39:56 2005
From: fields at hedge.net (Adam Fields)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:39:56 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c5db48$a1276910$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
References: <000001c5db48$a1276910$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
Message-ID: <20051027233956.GL14471@lola.aquick.org>

On Thu, Oct 27, 2005 at 06:49:03PM -0400, Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy wrote:
> We are looking for a Programmer in NYC to telecommute on projects.

If you're looking for a telecommuter, why does that person have to be
in NYC?

-- 
				- Adam

** Expert Technical Project and Business Management
**** System Performance Analysis and Architecture
****** [ http://www.everylastounce.com ]

[ http://www.aquick.org/blog ] ............ Blog
[ http://www.adamfields.com/resume.html ].. Experience
[ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fields ] ... Photos
[ http://www.buyadam.com/blog ].............Product Reviews
[ http://del.icio.us/fields ] ............. Links





From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 20:19:58 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:19:58 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <009d01c5db4e$15927920$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
References: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
	<009d01c5db4e$15927920$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
Message-ID: <330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/27/05, Hans Zaunere <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:
>
> Ahh, good old NSM...
>
> New York PHP developed an implementation of NSM, pNSM, as part of the clew
> project.

Then let's start that discussion over here, about the performance
benefits that turn into performance hits when your one table has 300
million rows...

Seriously, this concept makes lots of things seem easier, but next
thing you know, you got a really looooooong table on your hands and
only Oracle (IIRC) can partition across tablespaces at the table
level.

What to do when your nested table becomes more than you can manage? Is
it time then to go back to a more normalized model, or is this an
indication that - before you even implement - you have to take the
eventual number of rows that your nested table might have to manage?

-- Mitch, loving database discussions for a change ;-)


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 00:14:54 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 00:14:54 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
References: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
	<009d01c5db4e$15927920$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
	<330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510272114p704cbe9dj4e449efe83c8ac59@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/27/05, Mitch Pirtle <mitch.pirtle at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/27/05, Hans Zaunere <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ahh, good old NSM...
> >
> > New York PHP developed an implementation of NSM, pNSM, as part of the clew
> > project.
>
> Then let's start that discussion over here, about the performance
> benefits that turn into performance hits when your one table has 300
> million rows...
>
> Seriously, this concept makes lots of things seem easier, but next
> thing you know, you got a really looooooong table on your hands and
> only Oracle (IIRC) can partition across tablespaces at the table
> level.
>
> What to do when your nested table becomes more than you can manage? Is
> it time then to go back to a more normalized model, or is this an
> indication that - before you even implement - you have to take the
> eventual number of rows that your nested table might have to manage?
>
> -- Mitch, loving database discussions for a change ;-)

We were having just this discussion at Friday's after yiou left,
Mitch, only my number was much lower than 300 million. The overhead of
inserting new nodes into the tree becomes unbearable much more quickly
than I expected. On commodity hardware with a stock MySQL binary, it
can take four seconds to insert a new node in a tree of 50,000.

Then again, for many projects the convenience more than makes up for
the insertion overhead, and the read performance on the NSM tree
certainly scales as advertised.

But what's the answer? You can finesse the problem a bit, depending on
your data model, by using sub-trees in their own tables. Or you can
use Oracle. Or... ?

--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From rcozzol at optonline.net  Fri Oct 28 00:44:44 2005
From: rcozzol at optonline.net (Roland Cozzolino)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 00:44:44 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
References: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
	<009d01c5db4e$15927920$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
	<330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4361ACBC.8030007@optonline.net>

That is a very valid point, ...however (there has to be some sort of 
argument) ... if you have a table with N-million rows, chances are your 
DB design isn't very good.  No hierarchical algorithm will perform well 
under conditions like that.  Nested sets will at least give you great 
retrieval times and tons of flexibility with the hierarchy nodes, 
whereas adjacency lists are very stringent and slow and will still end 
up giving you 3 bazillion rows.  Furthermore, if you are in fact dealing 
with that many rows, go buy Oracle or use PostGres (which can also 
partition across tablespaces and allow for OO design).  In my opinion, 
MySQL just falls short when you get into real complicated database 
design (I am ducking under my desk right now, fearing the MySQL fan-base 
may come over my house and shoot me).

Mitch Pirtle wrote:

>On 10/27/05, Hans Zaunere <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Ahh, good old NSM...
>>
>>New York PHP developed an implementation of NSM, pNSM, as part of the clew
>>project.
>>    
>>
>
>Then let's start that discussion over here, about the performance
>benefits that turn into performance hits when your one table has 300
>million rows...
>
>Seriously, this concept makes lots of things seem easier, but next
>thing you know, you got a really looooooong table on your hands and
>only Oracle (IIRC) can partition across tablespaces at the table
>level.
>
>What to do when your nested table becomes more than you can manage? Is
>it time then to go back to a more normalized model, or is this an
>indication that - before you even implement - you have to take the
>eventual number of rows that your nested table might have to manage?
>
>-- Mitch, loving database discussions for a change ;-)
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>  
>


From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Fri Oct 28 01:08:11 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:08:11 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
References: <000001c5db48$a1276910$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
Message-ID: <00b301c5db7d$986be550$1519a8c0@ced>

MessageHmm....

Is it me or does "Stitch & Bitch" seem a little off... Did anyone get a reply from this poster? IS this a spam bot?

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy 
  To: talk at lists.nyphp.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:49 PM
  Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed


  We are looking for a Programmer in NYC to telecommute on projects.
  A PHP coder with experience developing ecommerce sites, especially in a shared hosting environment. Must have strong *nix skills. Must know MySQL. Moderate to advanced Javascript and CSS. Some experience with mod_rewrite helpful.

  Must work well with understanding and modifying existing scripts. Must have experience with PHP's cURL functions. Experience with cron a plus.

  Please e-mail your qualifications to store at sewfastseweasy.com or fax them to 212-268-4321 with ATTN: Gregory Garvin in the subject line

         
       
        visit us at www.sewfastseweasy.com and buy the best beginner sewing book, "Sew Fast Sew Easy: All You Need to Know When You Start to Sew" by Elissa Meyrich, sewing patterns, online video learning, Stitch & Bitch products and classes.
       
   




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New York PHP Talk Mailing List
  AMP Technology
  Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
  http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
  http://www.nyphp.org
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From george at omniti.com  Fri Oct 28 08:57:55 2005
From: george at omniti.com (George Schlossnagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:57:55 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510272114p704cbe9dj4e449efe83c8ac59@mail.gmail.com>
References: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
	<009d01c5db4e$15927920$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
	<330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510272114p704cbe9dj4e449efe83c8ac59@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A7875EDB-7FF0-468F-BBEB-2F0B64D96E4F@omniti.com>


On Oct 28, 2005, at 12:14 AM, csnyder wrote:
>
> We were having just this discussion at Friday's after yiou left,
> Mitch, only my number was much lower than 300 million. The overhead of
> inserting new nodes into the tree becomes unbearable much more quickly
> than I expected. On commodity hardware with a stock MySQL binary, it
> can take four seconds to insert a new node in a tree of 50,000.

In my experience, the only place I've implemented this was where I  
could do batched inserts via rebuilds.  Why inserting individual  
nodes can be a pain, it's on the same order of complexity as  
rebuilding the entire table.

George


From george at omniti.com  Fri Oct 28 09:00:45 2005
From: george at omniti.com (George Schlossnagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:00:45 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <4361ACBC.8030007@optonline.net>
References: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
	<009d01c5db4e$15927920$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
	<330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
	<4361ACBC.8030007@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <52FA8DDF-3368-427D-9E56-5F5C1C5F5CC2@omniti.com>


On Oct 28, 2005, at 12:44 AM, Roland Cozzolino wrote:

> That is a very valid point, ...however (there has to be some sort of
> argument) ... if you have a table with N-million rows, chances are  
> your
> DB design isn't very good.

That claim reads to me like 'no data set reasonably has 3 million  
distinct members in it', which is kinda obviously bogus.

I manage a number of ~1T sized databases.  I can guarantee you that  
there are a number of tables in them that have N-million rows, where  
N is not small.  Data points on customer behavior spanning a couple  
years, things like that.

George


From rcozzol at optonline.net  Fri Oct 28 09:17:55 2005
From: rcozzol at optonline.net (Roland Cozzolino)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:17:55 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <52FA8DDF-3368-427D-9E56-5F5C1C5F5CC2@omniti.com>
References: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
	<009d01c5db4e$15927920$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
	<330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
	<4361ACBC.8030007@optonline.net>
	<52FA8DDF-3368-427D-9E56-5F5C1C5F5CC2@omniti.com>
Message-ID: <43622503.50003@optonline.net>

Flat data no problem, but hierarchies of that size?  Better ways to do 
that outside of a DB.

George Schlossnagle wrote:

>On Oct 28, 2005, at 12:44 AM, Roland Cozzolino wrote:
>
>  
>
>>That is a very valid point, ...however (there has to be some sort of
>>argument) ... if you have a table with N-million rows, chances are  
>>your
>>DB design isn't very good.
>>    
>>
>
>That claim reads to me like 'no data set reasonably has 3 million  
>distinct members in it', which is kinda obviously bogus.
>
>I manage a number of ~1T sized databases.  I can guarantee you that  
>there are a number of tables in them that have N-million rows, where  
>N is not small.  Data points on customer behavior spanning a couple  
>years, things like that.
>
>George
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>  
>


From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 09:54:44 2005
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:54:44 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <00b301c5db7d$986be550$1519a8c0@ced>
References: <000001c5db48$a1276910$7d01a8c0@DESKTOP>
	<00b301c5db7d$986be550$1519a8c0@ced>
Message-ID: <330532b60510280654r6d24dd9dpb3f10a46deeb8799@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/28/05, CED <Consult at covenantedesign.com> wrote:
>
> Hmm....
>
> Is it me or does "Stitch & Bitch" seem a little  off...

Nope, sounds like your typical bigfixing session to me.

-- Mitch


From jay_nyphp at fastmail.fm  Fri Oct 28 10:04:54 2005
From: jay_nyphp at fastmail.fm (Jayesh Sheth)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:04:54 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Freelancer survey
Message-ID: <1130508294.20188.246238725@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi fellow NYPHP'ers,

I work with the Freelancers Union / Working Today, which is a national
non-profit that represents the needs and concerns of the independent
workforce through advocacy, information, and service. We rely on PHP
and open source software extensively for our technology needs.

We are currently looking for freelancer respondents to help us
determine which companies in New York City are the best (and worst)
to freelance for.

Since many NYPHP members are freelancers / consultants, and since the
aggregated information that all of you could provide through this
survey could be valuable, I thought I would post this here.

Take the survey:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=394831315905

Email it to your friends:
http://www.workingtoday.org/stf/index2.php?cID=2

Thanks,

- Jay


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 10:54:19 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:54:19 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <43622503.50003@optonline.net>
References: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
	<009d01c5db4e$15927920$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
	<330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
	<4361ACBC.8030007@optonline.net>
	<52FA8DDF-3368-427D-9E56-5F5C1C5F5CC2@omniti.com>
	<43622503.50003@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <b76252690510280754r70cbc0f8ifaffbb70c4e4ffed@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/28/05, Roland Cozzolino <rcozzol at optonline.net> wrote:
> Flat data no problem, but hierarchies of that size?  Better ways to do
> that outside of a DB.

In the filesystem? Using IMAP for searching and sorting? :-)

My lack of imagination is holding me back here, I know, but a large
hierarchy seems much *less* useful when outside of a DB.


--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From jdaly at panix.com  Fri Oct 28 11:06:05 2005
From: jdaly at panix.com (John Daly)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:06:05 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HTML_Quickform question
Message-ID: <007f01c5dbd1$4b7c43d0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>


All,

I'm using the Pear HTML_Quickform package to create forms for the latest 
project I'm working on, and I'm running up against something that I can't 
yet figure out:  For complex templated forms, how can I get the form 
elements to display in place, and not only where I explicitly call 
form->display() ?   Let's say I have a table two columns wide, and six rows 
long, and I want to spread form elements over all rows of the first column 
and have them display where they are added.  Can this be done?

Thanks,

John 



From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 11:14:26 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:14:26 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <A7875EDB-7FF0-468F-BBEB-2F0B64D96E4F@omniti.com>
References: <43580776.6040501@optonline.net>
	<009d01c5db4e$15927920$4fd9a8c0@MobileZ>
	<330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510272114p704cbe9dj4e449efe83c8ac59@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7875EDB-7FF0-468F-BBEB-2F0B64D96E4F@omniti.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510280814j2725b17avefa247d07cd19323@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/28/05, George Schlossnagle <george at omniti.com> wrote:

> In my experience, the only place I've implemented this was where I
> could do batched inserts via rebuilds.  Why inserting individual
> nodes can be a pain, it's on the same order of complexity as
> rebuilding the entire table.
>

This is only partly true -- you can queue new nodes and batch-insert
them, provided they are all going to the same place. But if the append
points are scattered throughout the tree, batching doesn't give you
anything.

"Walking the tree" to rebuild the table takes much much longer than
simply appending a node.

One strategy I considered was inserting two or more "unattached" nodes
on any append, to provide spare capacity in the tree with no extra
cost (adding 4 to each left and right value is the same as adding 2).
But this just seems like madness since it will inflate the tree to
twice its optimal size, and end up compounding the problem.

Grrrrr.

Creating a loosely-connected hierarchy, some means of distributing the
tree across multiple tables (or even multiple databases) seems like
the only sustainable solution. Hans Z. has been musing about
multi-dimensional NSM, whereas I keep coming back to namespaces. But I
still don't know what either of those solutions really looks like...

--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From tom at supertom.com  Fri Oct 28 11:16:09 2005
From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:16:09 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] HTML_Quickform question
In-Reply-To: <007f01c5dbd1$4b7c43d0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
References: <007f01c5dbd1$4b7c43d0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
Message-ID: <436240B9.5030706@supertom.com>

Hi John,

If understand your question correctly, it sounds like you need to look 
at Renders (they let you format the HTML that the element sits in) and 
perhaps the createElement method.  Also, you may use the html parameter 
to addElement to force HTML into your forms.

You may also choose to use HTML_Quickform with one of the template 
engines, for maximum flexibility.

Good Luck!

Tom
http://www.liphp.org

John Daly wrote:

>All,
>
>I'm using the Pear HTML_Quickform package to create forms for the latest 
>project I'm working on, and I'm running up against something that I can't 
>yet figure out:  For complex templated forms, how can I get the form 
>elements to display in place, and not only where I explicitly call 
>form->display() ?   Let's say I have a table two columns wide, and six rows 
>long, and I want to spread form elements over all rows of the first column 
>and have them display where they are added.  Can this be done?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John 
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>  
>



From agfische at email.smith.edu  Fri Oct 28 16:10:15 2005
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:10:15 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Variables syntax
Message-ID: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>

Greetings listers,

A basic question I'm sure...  (I have checked PHundamentals and did some 
googling and manual searching and book skimming but haven't come up with 
the answers I'm looking for.)

I have currently been setting variable like so:
Version A:
$print_first_name = "You said your first name is 
{$_SESSION['first_name']}.";

At one time I think I had something like:
Version B:
$print_first_name = "You said your first_name is $_SESSION[first_name].";

This would yield the same result on my server, but I think version B is 
incorrect and version A is correct.  I am thinking that Version B is 
incorrect as it is missing the single quotes around the var name, even 
though it does render OK on my server, perhaps it would not in another 
environment?

Then I also had something like:
Version C:
$print_first_name = "You said your first_name is " . 
$_SESSION['first_name'] . ".";

Now I think Version C is technically correct, and the decision to use A 
or C is based on personal preference. 

Basically I'd like to establish a standard for myself and want to make 
sure I'm understanding the usage and scenario's which can arise.

Is there a better alternative method?

Comments, thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks!

-Aaron




From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 16:14:17 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:14:17 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Variables syntax
In-Reply-To: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>

It's all based on your coding preference.

Version A works because of the {} it evaluates the variable, however version
A would work even without the {}

The reason being is because when using double quotes variables are evaluated
before being printed.

Version C is the same type i use because from my understanding using double
quotes is bad because it takes longer processing to evaluate the variables
when they are injected into a string in that manner, maybe i am wrong and
just typing more than i have to.

It all boils down to your coding style, preference.

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From dmintz at davidmintz.org  Fri Oct 28 16:29:40 2005
From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:29:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Variables syntax
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
	<8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510281625150.68921@emra.pair.com>


AFAIK:  there is absolutely nothing unkosher about the

	"this is a $array[key]"

syntax because PHP does not try to evaluate constants within double-quoted
strings (which makes sense, if you think about it -- it would have to
check every word). That's why you don't get a warning as you do if you
simply say

echo $array[key]

---
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Fri Oct 28 16:32:11 2005
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:32:11 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Variables syntax
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
	<8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43628ACB.109@email.smith.edu>

Joseph Crawford wrote:

>
> Version A works because of the {} it evaluates the variable, however 
> version A would work even without the {}
>
> The reason being is because when using double quotes variables are 
> evaluated before being printed.
>

On my server, version A without {} produces errors when the script runs:

Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_ENCAPSED_AND_WHITESPACE, 
expecting T_STRING or T_VARIABLE or T_NUM_STRING in 
(home/filepath/filename.php) on line 45

To confirm, Version A is when the var is inside a double quoted string, 
with single quotes around the array['varname']

> Version C is the same type i use because from my understanding using 
> double quotes is bad because it takes longer processing to evaluate 
> the variables when they are injected into a string in that manner, 
> maybe i am wrong and just typing more than i have to.


Interesting.  I hadn't seen mention of that in my books.  It's just 
further confirmation that I need more books!  =)

Thanks,

-Aaron



From php at tmcode.com  Fri Oct 28 16:50:56 2005
From: php at tmcode.com (Tim McEwen)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:50:56 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Variables syntax
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
	<8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA12F4E4-667E-4918-96E2-ED083760D00A@tmcode.com>


Not sure I agree that Version C will give you a speed improvement.    
I think gluing strings together is more expensive than expanding a  
double quoted string.   Take the following two scripts:


<?
//  test_a.php  - using single quotes
$string='a';
for($i=0; $i<100000; $i++)    $string='A' . $string .  'B';
echo strlen($string);
?>


<?
// test_b.php - using double quotes
$string='a';
for($i=0; $i<100000; $i++)    $string="A{$string}B";
echo strlen($string);
?>


Using AB  produces the following:

ab -n 10 http://localhost/test_a.php
...
Time per request:       28574.142 [ms] (mean)
...

ab -n 10 http://localhost/test_b.php
...
Time per request:       14057.574 [ms] (mean)
...

Seems like the concatenate operation is 2x slower?  So I would vote  
for Version A being the "best practice."

I too have heard the argument that you should use single quotes  
(especially for array element keys) because your code will preform  
better.  Has anyone done any benchmarking on this?  Does using $row 
['column']  really perform that much better than $row["column"]?


-Tim




On Oct 28, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Joseph Crawford wrote:

> It's all based on your coding preference.
>
> Version A works because of the {} it evaluates the variable,  
> however version A would work even without the {}
>
> The reason being is because when using double quotes variables are  
> evaluated before being printed.
>
> Version C is the same type i use because from my understanding  
> using double quotes is bad because it takes longer processing to  
> evaluate the variables when they are injected into a string in that  
> manner, maybe i am wrong and just typing more than i have to.
>
> It all boils down to your coding style, preference.
>
> -- 
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org

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From lists at frozenpc.net  Fri Oct 28 16:57:43 2005
From: lists at frozenpc.net (Aaron Axelsen)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:57:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] LDAP SSL with Active Directory
Message-ID: <436290C7.6040000@frozenpc.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
 
Hello,

I have been trying to search out how to setup my Redhat server so that
php can use ldap over ssl to connect to an active directory server.  I
have the server ca cert, but I'm not finding a clear answer of what to
do with it to get php to work.

Any suggestions?  Thanks!

- --
Aaron Axelsen
lists at frozenpc.net

Great hosting, low prices.  Modevia Web Services LLC --
http://www.modevia.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
 
iD8DBQFDYpDHuucONIvD0AMRAjnYAKCDDH19q38THZU/s8k6j9p02hjK4ACg+bMx
ku9VSJW/SXS/TCmXQsHlPs8=
=HDRt
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From dcech at phpwerx.net  Fri Oct 28 17:12:58 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:12:58 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Variables syntax
In-Reply-To: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <4362945A.5000708@phpwerx.net>

I tend to go with version D:

$print_first_name = 'You said your first_name is '. 
$_SESSION['first_name'] .'.';

As you can see I use single-quotes around the 'string' portions and I 
have modified the spacing rule a little so that I don't leave a space 
between the 'string' portions and the . concatenation operator.

There are a few reasons I use this approach, but chief among them is 
that it makes child's play of spotting variables, especially in a 
syntax-highlighting editor.  If they're embedded within a string they're 
much harder to spot (for me at least).

In the end it comes down to personal preference, my testing indicates 
that the performance difference between single-quotes, double-quotes or 
double-quotes with complex (curly) braces is not large enough to really 
be worth considering unless you are talking about a LOT (> 100,000) 
embedded variables.  I would suggest  going with whatever makes your 
code the most consistent and easiest to maintain.

Dan

Aaron Fischer wrote:
> Greetings listers,
> 
> A basic question I'm sure...  (I have checked PHundamentals and did some 
> googling and manual searching and book skimming but haven't come up with 
> the answers I'm looking for.)
> 
> I have currently been setting variable like so:
> Version A:
> $print_first_name = "You said your first name is 
> {$_SESSION['first_name']}.";
> 
> At one time I think I had something like:
> Version B:
> $print_first_name = "You said your first_name is $_SESSION[first_name].";
> 
> This would yield the same result on my server, but I think version B is 
> incorrect and version A is correct.  I am thinking that Version B is 
> incorrect as it is missing the single quotes around the var name, even 
> though it does render OK on my server, perhaps it would not in another 
> environment?
> 
> Then I also had something like:
> Version C:
> $print_first_name = "You said your first_name is " . 
> $_SESSION['first_name'] . ".";
> 
> Now I think Version C is technically correct, and the decision to use A 
> or C is based on personal preference. 
> 
> Basically I'd like to establish a standard for myself and want to make 
> sure I'm understanding the usage and scenario's which can arise.
> 
> Is there a better alternative method?
> 
> Comments, thoughts, suggestions?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Aaron


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Fri Oct 28 17:42:30 2005
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:42:30 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Variables syntax
In-Reply-To: <4362945A.5000708@phpwerx.net>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu> <4362945A.5000708@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <43629B46.3000108@email.smith.edu>

Dan Cech wrote:

>I tend to go with version D:
>
>$print_first_name = 'You said your first_name is '. 
>$_SESSION['first_name'] .'.';
>
>As you can see I use single-quotes around the 'string' portions and I 
>have modified the spacing rule a little so that I don't leave a space 
>between the 'string' portions and the . concatenation operator.
>
>There are a few reasons I use this approach, but chief among them is 
>that it makes child's play of spotting variables, especially in a 
>syntax-highlighting editor.  If they're embedded within a string they're 
>much harder to spot (for me at least).
>
>  
>

That is indeed one of the drawbacks I have noticed as well, if I embed 
the var within the string I lose the syntax highlighting which make the 
variables much harder to spot (for me as well).


>In the end it comes down to personal preference, my testing indicates 
>that the performance difference between single-quotes, double-quotes or 
>double-quotes with complex (curly) braces is not large enough to really 
>be worth considering unless you are talking about a LOT (> 100,000) 
>embedded variables.  I would suggest  going with whatever makes your 
>code the most consistent and easiest to maintain.
>
>Dan
>
>  
>
Benchmark testing is something I have on my list of "to learn about" 
stuff.  It hasn't been mentioned in the books that I have (again, I 
suppose that's further justification for more books). 

-Aaron




From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Fri Oct 28 18:30:56 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:30:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
Message-ID: <4362A6A0.8090504@polymerdb.org>

All this heirarchical structure talk happens to come up as I'm trying to 
implement a data filtering scheme for an ad-hoc querying interface.  
Basically I want to allow queries as complex as the user wants -- not 
just on one or two fields at a time -- so this has to be open-ended, and 
it seems to be pointing me to a heirarchical structure.  I think I've 
found something that will work, but I wonder a) if I'm just reinventing 
the wheel somehow, and b) if I should go with this, am I doing it right?

Here goes (in English as simple as my gabby self can make it):

We store all the filters using a table with these fields:
CREATE TABLE `filters` (
  `filterid` int(11),
  `parentid` int(11), -- keys to filterid
  `booltype` enum('and','or'),
  `criteria` varchar(255),
  PRIMARY KEY  (`filterid`)
);
And then we start filling it with filters. Any 'parent' filter doesn't 
store a `criteria` for itself, just the `booltype` value for all its 
children.

INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
VALUES (1, NULL, 'and', NULL);
INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
VALUES (2, 1, NULL, 'hair=''brown''');
INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
VALUES (3, 1, NULL, 'age=''32''');
INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
VALUES (4, 1, 'or', NULL);
INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
VALUES (5, 4, NULL, 'city=''boston''');
INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
VALUES (6, 4, NULL, 'city=''houston''');

So this way I get parent filter 1 joining its children 2, 3 and 4 with 
an 'and' operator; 4 itself also is a parent of 5 and 6, which it joins 
with an 'or' operator.  The result is a filter that says:    hair = 
'brown' and age='32' and (city='boston' or city='houston')

This seems open-ended enough to be very flexible, and it makes sense to 
my feeble brain, but is there a better way to do it?

- Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)



From rcozzol at optonline.net  Fri Oct 28 22:25:08 2005
From: rcozzol at optonline.net (Roland Cozzolino)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:25:08 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
In-Reply-To: <4362A6A0.8090504@polymerdb.org>
References: <4362A6A0.8090504@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <4362DD84.9030906@optonline.net>

Just curious, it this something that needs to be saved to the database 
(sort of like saved queries a user can bring back)?  If not, you can do 
this with sessions.  I am actually implementing something very similar 
right now with open ended queries where we simply give the user a 
buttload of fields to choose from including boolean options.  Since I 
don't care about the query once it returns a result, I assemble it on 
the fly and use DOM/DHTML and a bit of ajax to deal with the 
addition/subtraction of query fields.  Not sure if this helps.

Allen Shaw wrote:

>All this heirarchical structure talk happens to come up as I'm trying to 
>implement a data filtering scheme for an ad-hoc querying interface.  
>Basically I want to allow queries as complex as the user wants -- not 
>just on one or two fields at a time -- so this has to be open-ended, and 
>it seems to be pointing me to a heirarchical structure.  I think I've 
>found something that will work, but I wonder a) if I'm just reinventing 
>the wheel somehow, and b) if I should go with this, am I doing it right?
>
>Here goes (in English as simple as my gabby self can make it):
>
>We store all the filters using a table with these fields:
>CREATE TABLE `filters` (
>  `filterid` int(11),
>  `parentid` int(11), -- keys to filterid
>  `booltype` enum('and','or'),
>  `criteria` varchar(255),
>  PRIMARY KEY  (`filterid`)
>);
>And then we start filling it with filters. Any 'parent' filter doesn't 
>store a `criteria` for itself, just the `booltype` value for all its 
>children.
>
>INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
>VALUES (1, NULL, 'and', NULL);
>INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
>VALUES (2, 1, NULL, 'hair=''brown''');
>INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
>VALUES (3, 1, NULL, 'age=''32''');
>INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
>VALUES (4, 1, 'or', NULL);
>INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
>VALUES (5, 4, NULL, 'city=''boston''');
>INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`) 
>VALUES (6, 4, NULL, 'city=''houston''');
>
>So this way I get parent filter 1 joining its children 2, 3 and 4 with 
>an 'and' operator; 4 itself also is a parent of 5 and 6, which it joins 
>with an 'or' operator.  The result is a filter that says:    hair = 
>'brown' and age='32' and (city='boston' or city='houston')
>
>This seems open-ended enough to be very flexible, and it makes sense to 
>my feeble brain, but is there a better way to do it?
>
>- Allen
>
>  
>


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Sat Oct 29 00:39:32 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:39:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
In-Reply-To: <4362DD84.9030906@optonline.net>
References: <4362A6A0.8090504@polymerdb.org> <4362DD84.9030906@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <4362FD04.6090402@polymerdb.org>

Yeah, this is going to be saved in the database to have on hand for 
later, part of a saved query setup.  And although the "buttload of 
fields" idea occurred to me, the idea here is that I have to design this 
to work even for tables that don't even exist yet.  Once a table or 
relational set of tables is offered for querying, the admin has to mark 
which columns are available, and then the user should be able to pick 
any of those columns to display in the query *and* define filters based 
on any combination of those available columns.

The more I think about this the more it seems like I'm on the right 
track with the recursive parent/child structure, but one thing that's 
giving me pause is that a parent record has no criteria of its own, and 
a child record has no boolean-type of its own; meaning I wind up with 
basically two types of records in this one table.  Still, normalizing 
beyond this point and trying to put those two types of records in two 
different tables seems just insanely and unnecessarily complicated. 
Um... right?

Roland Cozzolino wrote:
> Just curious, it this something that needs to be saved to the database 
> (sort of like saved queries a user can bring back)?  If not, you can do 
> this with sessions.  I am actually implementing something very similar 
> right now with open ended queries where we simply give the user a 
> buttload of fields to choose from including boolean options.  Since I 
> don't care about the query once it returns a result, I assemble it on 
> the fly and use DOM/DHTML and a bit of ajax to deal with the 
> addition/subtraction of query fields.  Not sure if this helps.
> 
> Allen Shaw wrote:
> 
> 
>>All this heirarchical structure talk happens to come up as I'm trying to 
>>implement a data filtering scheme for an ad-hoc querying interface.  
>>Basically I want to allow queries as complex as the user wants -- not 
>>just on one or two fields at a time -- so this has to be open-ended, and 
>>it seems to be pointing me to a heirarchical structure.  I think I've 
 >>...

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From gatzby3jr at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 02:47:01 2005
From: gatzby3jr at gmail.com (Brian O'Connor)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 02:47:01 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Variables syntax
In-Reply-To: <43629B46.3000108@email.smith.edu>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu> <4362945A.5000708@phpwerx.net>
	<43629B46.3000108@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <29da5d150510282347i49f7df04n15b90577f7f748e2@mail.gmail.com>

>From what I've heard using single quotes in strings and arrays help improve
speed, although very minimally and is only noticable in very large
applciations. The reason being that php does not parse for variables in
single-quoted strings, and in double quoted it does.

I personally code with method B, but I guess I should start changing (for
the reasons that Dan Cech pointed out).

On 10/28/05, Aaron Fischer <agfische at email.smith.edu> wrote:
>
> Dan Cech wrote:
>
> >I tend to go with version D:
> >
> >$print_first_name = 'You said your first_name is '.
> >$_SESSION['first_name'] .'.';
> >
> >As you can see I use single-quotes around the 'string' portions and I
> >have modified the spacing rule a little so that I don't leave a space
> >between the 'string' portions and the . concatenation operator.
> >
> >There are a few reasons I use this approach, but chief among them is
> >that it makes child's play of spotting variables, especially in a
> >syntax-highlighting editor. If they're embedded within a string they're
> >much harder to spot (for me at least).
> >
> >
> >
>
> That is indeed one of the drawbacks I have noticed as well, if I embed
> the var within the string I lose the syntax highlighting which make the
> variables much harder to spot (for me as well).
>
>
> >In the end it comes down to personal preference, my testing indicates
> >that the performance difference between single-quotes, double-quotes or
> >double-quotes with complex (curly) braces is not large enough to really
> >be worth considering unless you are talking about a LOT (> 100,000)
> >embedded variables. I would suggest going with whatever makes your
> >code the most consistent and easiest to maintain.
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >
> >
> Benchmark testing is something I have on my list of "to learn about"
> stuff. It hasn't been mentioned in the books that I have (again, I
> suppose that's further justification for more books).
>
> -Aaron
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>



--
Brian O'Connor
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From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Sat Oct 29 11:00:49 2005
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:00:49 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
Message-ID: <43638EA1.8090906@tgaconnect.com>

On 10/28/2005 04:30 PM Allen Shaw writes:
> All this heirarchical structure talk happens to come up as I'm trying to 
> implement a data filtering scheme for an ad-hoc querying interface.  
> Basically I want to allow queries as complex as the user wants -- not 
> just on one or two fields at a time -- so this has to be open-ended, and 
> it seems to be pointing me to a heirarchical structure.  I think I've 
> found something that will work, but I wonder a) if I'm just 
> reinventing the wheel somehow,

It looks to me as if you are trying to implement views.

Is going to MySQL 5 (or a DBMS that supports views)
an option?

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From rcozzol at optonline.net  Sat Oct 29 09:15:26 2005
From: rcozzol at optonline.net (Roland Cozzolino)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:15:26 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
In-Reply-To: <4362FD04.6090402@polymerdb.org>
References: <4362A6A0.8090504@polymerdb.org> <4362DD84.9030906@optonline.net>
	<4362FD04.6090402@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <436375EE.4000303@optonline.net>

I am not sure how flexible you are making this (can users do inner/outer 
joins, group by, etc.) but the way you set up the system seems a bit 
over complicated.  Based on what you said, there seems to be 2 rather 
simple options:
1) create a view with the parameters the user specifies.  I am not sure 
what db you are using, but if this option is available it is rather 
helpful and simple.
2) construct the query in php and save the query in the db with a name 
or something valid the user remembers.  If you allow users to name the 
query they construct, then you can save it to a table like this:
table: user_query
    query_id: 1
    name: 'Customer Report'
    query: 'select customer_id, customer_name from customer'
This will also allow for some nasty queries, joins, etc., where the 
hierarchical thing might get a bit on the insane side with a large 
complex query.


Allen Shaw wrote:

>Yeah, this is going to be saved in the database to have on hand for 
>later, part of a saved query setup.  And although the "buttload of 
>fields" idea occurred to me, the idea here is that I have to design this 
>to work even for tables that don't even exist yet.  Once a table or 
>relational set of tables is offered for querying, the admin has to mark 
>which columns are available, and then the user should be able to pick 
>any of those columns to display in the query *and* define filters based 
>on any combination of those available columns.
>
>The more I think about this the more it seems like I'm on the right 
>track with the recursive parent/child structure, but one thing that's 
>giving me pause is that a parent record has no criteria of its own, and 
>a child record has no boolean-type of its own; meaning I wind up with 
>basically two types of records in this one table.  Still, normalizing 
>beyond this point and trying to put those two types of records in two 
>different tables seems just insanely and unnecessarily complicated. 
>Um... right?
>
>Roland Cozzolino wrote:
>  
>
>>Just curious, it this something that needs to be saved to the database 
>>(sort of like saved queries a user can bring back)?  If not, you can do 
>>this with sessions.  I am actually implementing something very similar 
>>right now with open ended queries where we simply give the user a 
>>buttload of fields to choose from including boolean options.  Since I 
>>don't care about the query once it returns a result, I assemble it on 
>>the fly and use DOM/DHTML and a bit of ajax to deal with the 
>>addition/subtraction of query fields.  Not sure if this helps.
>>
>>Allen Shaw wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>All this heirarchical structure talk happens to come up as I'm trying to 
>>>implement a data filtering scheme for an ad-hoc querying interface.  
>>>Basically I want to allow queries as complex as the user wants -- not 
>>>just on one or two fields at a time -- so this has to be open-ended, and 
>>>it seems to be pointing me to a heirarchical structure.  I think I've 
>>>      
>>>
> >>...
>
>  
>


From ken at secdat.com  Sat Oct 29 09:56:10 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:56:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
In-Reply-To: <43638EA1.8090906@tgaconnect.com>
References: <43638EA1.8090906@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <40739.38.117.147.25.1130594170.squirrel@38.117.147.25>

It is not so much implementing views as giving users a way to specify
views.  Since a view is just a stored query, it is just as well to
generate the query at run-time if doing so gives more flexibility to the
user.  A view on the other hand must be defined by an administrator and so
is outside normal user activity.

> On 10/28/2005 04:30 PM Allen Shaw writes:
>> All this heirarchical structure talk happens to come up as I'm trying to
>> implement a data filtering scheme for an ad-hoc querying interface.
>> Basically I want to allow queries as complex as the user wants -- not
>> just on one or two fields at a time -- so this has to be open-ended, and
>> it seems to be pointing me to a heirarchical structure.  I think I've
>> found something that will work, but I wonder a) if I'm just
>> reinventing the wheel somehow,
>
> It looks to me as if you are trying to implement views.
>
> Is going to MySQL 5 (or a DBMS that supports views)
> an option?
>
> --
>
> T. Gales & Associates
> 'Helping People Connect with Technology'
>
> http://www.tgaconnect.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From ken at secdat.com  Sat Oct 29 10:10:47 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:10:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
In-Reply-To: <4362A6A0.8090504@polymerdb.org>
References: <4362A6A0.8090504@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <40741.38.117.147.25.1130595047.squirrel@38.117.147.25>

Allen,

This is an interesting thread you have started.  I have some suggestions
to add to the thoughts already expressed.

A very big design decision at the start is whether you will support the
validation of the "criteria" values before attempting to execute the
query.  Leaving out the validation makes it simpler to handle the overall
organization, but then the error messages given to users will be SQL
messages that they may or may not be able to figure out.  If you make it
possible to validate the expressions yourself then you can control the
error messages.

One suggestion I would make is that each filter be given a name instead of
an ID, and possibly let the user choose the name.  Then the filters behave
like functions.  This makes nesting more intuitive.  So I can put two
filters into your table:

OVER18 => 'Age >= 18'
NATIVE => 'State_where_born = State_where_lives'

Then build up complex functions through composition, so that I can have
this function:

NAT_18 => OVER18 && NATIVE

This requires your table to be set up a little differently, but will give
you complete expressive power.

A query is then really a separate thing, not stored in the same table as
the filters.  A query needs to know a table, a list of columns, and a list
of functions.  If your queries can also pull from other queries in JOIN
and UNION then you have a generalized report writer.  If you have a very
sophisticated data dictionary then your report writer can even figure out
when to JOIN and when to UNION.




> All this heirarchical structure talk happens to come up as I'm trying to
> implement a data filtering scheme for an ad-hoc querying interface.
> Basically I want to allow queries as complex as the user wants -- not
> just on one or two fields at a time -- so this has to be open-ended, and
> it seems to be pointing me to a heirarchical structure.  I think I've
> found something that will work, but I wonder a) if I'm just reinventing
> the wheel somehow, and b) if I should go with this, am I doing it right?
>
> Here goes (in English as simple as my gabby self can make it):
>
> We store all the filters using a table with these fields:
> CREATE TABLE `filters` (
>   `filterid` int(11),
>   `parentid` int(11), -- keys to filterid
>   `booltype` enum('and','or'),
>   `criteria` varchar(255),
>   PRIMARY KEY  (`filterid`)
> );
> And then we start filling it with filters. Any 'parent' filter doesn't
> store a `criteria` for itself, just the `booltype` value for all its
> children.
>
> INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`)
> VALUES (1, NULL, 'and', NULL);
> INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`)
> VALUES (2, 1, NULL, 'hair=''brown''');
> INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`)
> VALUES (3, 1, NULL, 'age=''32''');
> INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`)
> VALUES (4, 1, 'or', NULL);
> INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`)
> VALUES (5, 4, NULL, 'city=''boston''');
> INSERT INTO `filters` (`filterid`, `parentid`, `booltype`, `criteria`)
> VALUES (6, 4, NULL, 'city=''houston''');
>
> So this way I get parent filter 1 joining its children 2, 3 and 4 with
> an 'and' operator; 4 itself also is a parent of 5 and 6, which it joins
> with an 'or' operator.  The result is a filter that says:    hair =
> 'brown' and age='32' and (city='boston' or city='houston')
>
> This seems open-ended enough to be very flexible, and it makes sense to
> my feeble brain, but is there a better way to do it?
>
> - Allen
>
> --
> Allen Shaw
> Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Sat Oct 29 13:24:46 2005
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:24:46 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
Message-ID: <4363B05E.5000900@tgaconnect.com>

On 07:56 AM Kenneth Downs wrote:
> It is not so much implementing views as giving users a way to specify
> views.  Since a view is just a stored query, it is just as well to
> generate the query at run-time if doing so gives more flexibility to 
> the user.  
 > A view on the other hand must be defined by an administrator
> and so is outside normal user activity. 

Creating views is not outside user activity:
Create_view_priv has been available since MySQL 5.0.1.

Originally Allen asked am I just reinventing
the wheel.

I would say he is not *just* reinventing views --
this approach could be quite valuable to
people with a dbms that doesn't implement views.

The tree he described is reminiscent of a syntax tree.

So, taking a look at:
http://www.dbs.ethz.ch/education/isk/WS_97/syntax_diagramme/sld004.html

might spark some ideas.

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From ken at secdat.com  Sat Oct 29 15:41:56 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:41:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
In-Reply-To: <4363B05E.5000900@tgaconnect.com>
References: <4363B05E.5000900@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <40773.38.117.147.25.1130614916.squirrel@38.117.147.25>


> On 07:56 AM Kenneth Downs wrote:
>> It is not so much implementing views as giving users a way to specify
>> views.  Since a view is just a stored query, it is just as well to
>> generate the query at run-time if doing so gives more flexibility to
>> the user.
>  > A view on the other hand must be defined by an administrator
>> and so is outside normal user activity.
>
> Creating views is not outside user activity:
> Create_view_priv has been available since MySQL 5.0.1.

Perhaps I should phrase it differently.  When a user is specifying search
criteria, they are not interested in whether they are creating some
server-side object, they just want the result.  So while it may or may not
be a programmer's decision to implement the result as a view, the design
decisions in the original post should focus more on how to lay out tables
that will allow the user to specify criteria.

Also, there are other databases in the world besides MySQL.

-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Sat Oct 29 22:55:25 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:55:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
In-Reply-To: <40773.38.117.147.25.1130614916.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
References: <4363B05E.5000900@tgaconnect.com>
	<40773.38.117.147.25.1130614916.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
Message-ID: <4364361D.1060904@polymerdb.org>

Hi All,

Wow, I see a lot of discussion has happened since I read my mail last 
night.  (Shame on me for starting a thread at 6 PM on a Friday, anyway...)

Without backing up too much, I guess I should clarify a little bit more. 
  What I'm looking for here is a way to store and retrieve an unlimited 
combination of boolean filters against a flat table of information.  To 
get a little more real-world, I should tell you the idea is that this 
interface will offer users a choice of several pre-defined views (which 
are created using whatever/however in a backend that's not known), so 
the user picks one of those and effectively has access to one flattened 
summary set of data.  So we're not going to have this user making joins 
or creating table relationships or whatever, just looking at a flat 
view, and allowing them to filter it if they want.

I want to make sure the user can filter that data in as simple or 
complex a manner as he or she needs.  A system like this needs to be 
able to store criteria in boolean relationships with precedence 
grouping, so it could record structures like "(criteria_A and 
criteria_B) or (criteria_C and criteria_D)", etc.  As long as we can 
track simple boolean operators (basically and|or) and record correct 
precedence groupings for combinations of those operators (basically, 
putting the parentheses in the right places), then we can create filters 
of unlimitted complexity.

You can see this is a kind of generic discussion. By that I mean that 
the format or content of "criteria_A" or "criteria_B" would depend 
heavily on the backend system, whether it's a particular database server 
product or some custom parser that applies criteria agains flat-file 
data or XML files or whatever.  (For example, if we're talking PHP/SQL 
here, the filter described above would amount to something like "where 
($criteria_A and $criteria_B) or ($criteria_C and $criteria_D)".)

The application of course has to figure out whether the criteria are 
valid, help the user enter valid criteria, etc., and it also has to be 
responsible for creating the views in the first place, and applying that 
filter, etc.  But I think the actual process of tracking these nested 
filter criteria will 1) be a good context for discussion of heirarchical 
data structures, and 2) result in a reusable structure that could be 
applied in any filtering system, regardless of the data backend or type 
of data.

Kenneth Downs wrote:
>> One suggestion I would make is that each filter be given a name instead of
>> an ID, and possibly let the user choose the name.  Then the filters behave
>> like functions.  This makes nesting more intuitive.  So I can put two
>> filters into your table:

This is not such a bad idea, but it requires me (or whatever admin) to 
create the filters ahead of time and offer them to the user.  Hopefully 
I can come up with a structure that allows for recording whatever 
filters the user can come up with based on the existing columns in the 
flat data view.

Sorry if I didn't explain myself well in the beginning. I think right 
now it's really just about defining the best structure for storing 
filter criteria and the criteria's relationships to each other.  If we 
can do that we have a method that could be useful in numerous different 
systems.  Isn't that right?

- Allen


Kenneth Downs wrote:
>>On 07:56 AM Kenneth Downs wrote:
>>
>>>It is not so much implementing views as giving users a way to specify
>>>views.  Since a view is just a stored query, it is just as well to
>>>generate the query at run-time if doing so gives more flexibility to
>>>the user.
>>
>> > A view on the other hand must be defined by an administrator
>>
>>>and so is outside normal user activity.
>>
>>Creating views is not outside user activity:
>>Create_view_priv has been available since MySQL 5.0.1.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I should phrase it differently.  When a user is specifying search
> criteria, they are not interested in whether they are creating some
> server-side object, they just want the result.  So while it may or may not
> be a programmer's decision to implement the result as a view, the design
> decisions in the original post should focus more on how to lay out tables
> that will allow the user to specify criteria.
> 
> Also, there are other databases in the world besides MySQL.
> 


-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From susan_shemin at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 00:54:32 2005
From: susan_shemin at yahoo.com (Susan Shemin)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:54:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <00b301c5db7d$986be550$1519a8c0@ced>
Message-ID: <20051030045433.26414.qmail@web50214.mail.yahoo.com>

Your comment is inappropriate.  There are women on this list even though you guys try to keep us out of programming.

CED <Consult at CovenantEDesign.com> wrote:Hmm....
 
Is it me or does "Stitch & Bitch" seem a little off... Did anyone get a reply from this poster? IS this a spam bot?
 
Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy 
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:49 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed


We are looking for a Programmer in NYC to telecommute on projects.

A PHP coder with experience developing ecommerce sites, especially in a shared hosting environment. Must have strong *nix skills. Must know MySQL. Moderate to advanced Javascript and CSS. Some experience with mod_rewrite helpful.

Must work well with understanding and modifying existing scripts. Must have experience with PHP's cURL functions. Experience with cron a plus.

Please e-mail your qualifications to store at sewfastseweasy.com or fax them to 212-268-4321 with ATTN: Gregory Garvin in the subject line



 

visit us at www.sewfastseweasy.com and buy the best beginner sewing book, "Sew Fast Sew Easy: All You Need to Know When You Start to Sew" by Elissa Meyrich, sewing patterns, online video learning, Stitch & Bitch products and classes.

 

 


---------------------------------


_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org_______________________________________________
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AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
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From susan_shemin at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 00:58:26 2005
From: susan_shemin at yahoo.com (Susan Shemin)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fwd:  NYC Programmer Needed
Message-ID: <20051030045827.59946.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com>

You've come to the wrong place for your request because your post has been made fun of.  Try craigslist.org -- you'll be treated better.
 
Susan

Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy <store at sewfastseweasy.com> wrote:
From: "Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy" <store at sewfastseweasy.com>
To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:49:03 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed

We are looking for a Programmer in NYC to telecommute on projects.

A PHP coder with experience developing ecommerce sites, especially in a shared hosting environment. Must have strong *nix skills. Must know MySQL. Moderate to advanced Javascript and CSS. Some experience with mod_rewrite helpful.

Must work well with understanding and modifying existing scripts. Must have experience with PHP's cURL functions. Experience with cron a plus.

Please e-mail your qualifications to store at sewfastseweasy.com or fax them to 212-268-4321 with ATTN: Gregory Garvin in the subject line



 

visit us at www.sewfastseweasy.com and buy the best beginner sewing book, "Sew Fast Sew Easy: All You Need to Know When You Start to Sew" by Elissa Meyrich, sewing patterns, online video learning, Stitch & Bitch products and classes.

 

 
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org
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http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org

From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Sun Oct 30 03:23:29 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 03:23:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
References: <20051030045433.26414.qmail@web50214.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002201c5dd2b$3545db70$6401a8c0@ced>

"inappropriate"?? I think you NEED to Re-Read the posters original post... Scroll down and read the 'advertisement' at the bottom of this persons spam post.

My questioning of it's validaty was based on the fact that at the end of it it said something about "Stitch & Bitch", which I believe to be derragatory, hence I thought the post to be spam. Get your facts straight before you start gender wars on the php list. No one is out to get you.


Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Susan Shemin 
  To: NYPHP Talk 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 11:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed


  Your comment is inappropriate.  There are women on this list even though you guys try to keep us out of programming.

  CED <Consult at CovenantEDesign.com> wrote: 
    Hmm....

    Is it me or does "Stitch & Bitch" seem a little off... Did anyone get a reply from this poster? IS this a spam bot?

    Edward JS Prevost II
    Me at EdwardPrevost.info
    www.EdwardPrevost.info
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy 
      To: talk at lists.nyphp.org 
      Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:49 PM
      Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed


      We are looking for a Programmer in NYC to telecommute on projects.
      A PHP coder with experience developing ecommerce sites, especially in a shared hosting environment. Must have strong *nix skills. Must know MySQL. Moderate to advanced Javascript and CSS. Some experience with mod_rewrite helpful.

      Must work well with understanding and modifying existing scripts. Must have experience with PHP's cURL functions. Experience with cron a plus.

      Please e-mail your qualifications to store at sewfastseweasy.com or fax them to 212-268-4321 with ATTN: Gregory Garvin in the subject line

             
           
            visit us at www.sewfastseweasy.com and buy the best beginner sewing book, "Sew Fast Sew Easy: All You Need to Know When You Start to Sew" by Elissa Meyrich, sewing patterns, online video learning, Stitch & Bitch products and classes.
           
       




--------------------------------------------------------------------------


      _______________________________________________
      New York PHP Talk Mailing List
      AMP Technology
      Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
      http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
      http://www.nyphp.org
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    New York PHP Talk Mailing List
    AMP Technology
    Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
    http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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From joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com  Sun Oct 30 07:01:30 2005
From: joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com (Josh McCormack)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 07:01:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] similar open source program?
Message-ID: <4364B61A.2090106@travelersdiary.com>

Anyone know of a photo gallery script that's open source and similar to 
this:

http://www.lightboxphoto.com/gallery_software/features.htm

Particularly the sales related things, like invoicing, tax, shipping, 
download rights, etc.

Thanks,

Josh


From codebowl at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 07:28:58 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 07:28:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] similar open source program?
In-Reply-To: <4364B61A.2090106@travelersdiary.com>
References: <4364B61A.2090106@travelersdiary.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510300428p613eeb96pcf843338bbce841b@mail.gmail.com>

is coppermine open source look into that one

On 10/30/05, Josh McCormack <joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone know of a photo gallery script that's open source and similar to
> this:
>
> http://www.lightboxphoto.com/gallery_software/features.htm
>
> Particularly the sales related things, like invoicing, tax, shipping,
> download rights, etc.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>



--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From list at harveyk.com  Sun Oct 30 08:21:45 2005
From: list at harveyk.com (harvey)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:21:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fwd:  NYC Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <20051030045827.59946.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051030045827.59946.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20051030081724.03420ac0@harveyk.com>

I think it might be a good idea to let sewfastseweasy know of the 
misunderstanding since you took it upon yourself to speak for the 
rest of the list and  basically tell sewfastseweasty they were not 
welcome here.


At 11:58 PM 10/29/2005, Susan Shemin wrote:

>You've come to the wrong place for your request because your post 
>has been made fun of.  Try craigslist.org -- you'll be treated better.
>
>Susan
>
>Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy <store at sewfastseweasy.com> wrote:
>From: "Customer Service at Sew Fast Sew Easy" <store at sewfastseweasy.com>
>To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:49:03 -0400
>Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
>
>We are looking for a Programmer in NYC to telecommute on projects.
>
>A PHP coder with experience developing ecommerce sites, especially 
>in a shared hosting environment. Must have strong *nix skills. Must 
>know MySQL. Moderate to advanced Javascript and CSS. Some experience 
>with mod_rewrite helpful.
>
>Must work well with understanding and modifying existing scripts. 
>Must have experience with PHP's cURL functions. Experience with cron a plus.
>
>Please e-mail your qualifications to 
><mailto:store at sewfastseweasy.com>store at sewfastseweasy.com or fax 
>them to 212-268-4321 with ATTN: Gregory Garvin in the subject line
>
><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
>
>visit us at 
><outbind://5/www.sewfastseweasy.com>www.sewfastseweasy.com and buy 
>the best beginner sewing book, "Sew Fast Sew Easy: All You Need to 
>Know When You Start to Sew" by Elissa Meyrich, sewing patterns, 
>online video learning, Stitch & Bitch products and classes.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Talk Mailing List
>AMP Technology
>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>http://www.nyphp.org
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From ken at secdat.com  Sun Oct 30 10:18:39 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:18:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
In-Reply-To: <4364361D.1060904@polymerdb.org>
References: <4363B05E.5000900@tgaconnect.com>
	<40773.38.117.147.25.1130614916.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
	<4364361D.1060904@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <41120.38.117.147.25.1130685519.squirrel@38.117.147.25>

>
> Kenneth Downs wrote:
>>> One suggestion I would make is that each filter be given a name instead
>>> of
>>> an ID, and possibly let the user choose the name.  Then the filters
>>> behave
>>> like functions.  This makes nesting more intuitive.  So I can put two
>>> filters into your table:
>
> This is not such a bad idea, but it requires me (or whatever admin) to
> create the filters ahead of time and offer them to the user.  Hopefully
> I can come up with a structure that allows for recording whatever
> filters the user can come up with based on the existing columns in the
> flat data view.

Not at all.  You can provide pre-defined filters if you like, or fall back
to system-generated pseudo-names when the user is just typing in criteria.

To validate the criteria, you need a data dictionary.  To make the
validation completely simple, you need to specify the criteria entirely in
atomic values, and not allow parsable expressions.



-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From shiflett at php.net  Sun Oct 30 10:59:59 2005
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:59:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <20051030045433.26414.qmail@web50214.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051030045433.26414.qmail@web50214.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4364EDFF.5060703@php.net>

Susan Shemin wrote:
> Your comment is inappropriate. There are women on this list even
> though you guys try to keep us out of programming.

Actually, your comment is inappropriate:

1. What you found offensive in Edward's post is exactly what he is 
questioning. In other words, he also found the phrase alarming and is 
asking whether the post is legitimate. Because he had the same reaction 
as you, you've chosen to personally attack him. Personal attacks are not 
tolerated here.

2. Your generalization is exactly the type of offensive remark that you 
mistakenly thought Edward had made. This is blatant hypocrisy and a step 
(or several steps) in the wrong direction.

For the record, "Stitch and Bitch" seems legitimate:

http://www.sewfastseweasy.com/stitch.html

Most of the people there (mostly women) seem to "get it" and realize 
that it's an informal, funny reference to sewing and chatting.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy
http://brainbulb.com/


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sun Oct 30 11:05:02 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:05:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP in SecurityFocus #321
Message-ID: <20051030160410.0652E318E07@mailspool3.panix.com>

These summaries are available online
RSS:  http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.xml
HTML: http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.html

Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #321

PHP
---
PHP Safedir Restriction Bypass Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15119
This report is a bit off base.  The reporter calls it
&quot;safedir&quot; when they probably mean &quot;safe_mode&quot; and
these issues were already raised in SF report 14957. That aside, these
issues are fixed in the upcoming 4.4.1 and 5.0.6 releases of PHP.


APPLICATIONS USING PHP
----------------------
phpMyAdmin Theme Variable Local File Inclusion Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15169

PHPNuke Modules.PHP Search Module Remote Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15137

PHP-Nuke Modules.PHP NukeFixes Addon Remote Directory Traversal Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15150

phpBB Avatar Upload HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15170

E107 Resetcore.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15125

MySource Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15132

MySource Multiple Remote File Include Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15133

Chipmunk Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15149

Splatt Forums Remote Authentication Bypass Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15152

AL-Caricatier SS.PHP Authentication Bypass Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15162

TikiWiki Unspecified Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15164

Nuked Klan Multiple HTML Injection Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15166

Zomplog Detail.PHP HTML Injection Vulnerability
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15168

FlatNuke Index.PHP Multiple Remote File Include Vulnerabilities
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15172





From shiflett at php.net  Sun Oct 30 11:06:36 2005
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:06:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fwd:  NYC Programmer Needed
In-Reply-To: <20051030045827.59946.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051030045827.59946.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4364EF8C.5040502@php.net>

Susan Shemin wrote:
> You've come to the wrong place for your request because your post
> has been made fun of.

No, you've come to the right place, although you might want to try to 
our jobs list:

jobs at lists.nyphp.org

Susan misunderstood the purpose of the phrase "Stitch and Bitch" in your 
post.

Hope that helps.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy
http://brainbulb.com/


From lists at zaunere.com  Sun Oct 30 15:29:08 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 15:29:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004201c5dd90$955238f0$6401a8c0@MobileZ>



Mitch Pirtle wrote on Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:20 PM:
> On 10/27/05, Hans Zaunere <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Ahh, good old NSM...
> > 
> > New York PHP developed an implementation of NSM, pNSM, as part of
> > the clew project.
> 
> Then let's start that discussion over here, about the performance
> benefits that turn into performance hits when your one table has 300
> million rows...

Sure - the more rows, the more time it takes to do updates.  Keep in mind,
however, that while a lot of rows may need to be touched, it's lightweight.
The only operation is an update of an integer - based on an integer
constraint.

> Seriously, this concept makes lots of things seem easier, but next
> thing you know, you got a really looooooong table on your hands and
> only Oracle (IIRC) can partition across tablespaces at the table
> level.

As Snyder mentioned, we were just discussing this after last week's meeting.
Partitioning can help dramatically, but what if those types of features
aren't available?  Well, while the update of many rows may seem to be a big
hit, I'd much rather do that than recursive queries, especially in deep
trees.

> What to do when your nested table becomes more than you can manage? Is
> it time then to go back to a more normalized model, or is this an
> indication that - before you even implement - you have to take the
> eventual number of rows that your nested table might have to manage?

As Roland points out, for huge tree structures, it's better done outside of
SQL.  SQL isn't well suited for describing complex tree structures, but NSM
has been the most versatile, robust and fastest implementation I've seen.
I've had test trees with well over 100k rows and no problems.

The 80/20 rule applies here - for the majority of tree implementations in
SQL, NSM is the elegant solution.  If you're maintaining giant structures,
however, then a relational database probably isn't the right choice anyway.
But NSM solves the common problem of trees in your typical php/mysql/web
environment.


---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From lists at zaunere.com  Sun Oct 30 15:37:20 2005
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 15:37:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Variables syntax
In-Reply-To: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <004301c5dd91$ba6d5150$6401a8c0@MobileZ>



Aaron Fischer wrote on Friday, October 28, 2005 4:10 PM:
> Greetings listers,
> 
> A basic question I'm sure...  (I have checked PHundamentals and did
> some googling and manual searching and book skimming but haven't come
> up with the answers I'm looking for.)
> 
> I have currently been setting variable like so:
> Version A:
> $print_first_name = "You said your first name is
> {$_SESSION['first_name']}.";

This is my standard...

> At one time I think I had something like:
> Version B:
> $print_first_name = "You said your first_name is
> $_SESSION[first_name]."; 

Ewww....

> This would yield the same result on my server, but I think version B
> is incorrect and version A is correct.  I am thinking that Version B
> is incorrect as it is missing the single quotes around the var name,
> even though it does render OK on my server, perhaps it would not in
> another environment?

Absolutely - it's bad and sloppy.  Version B is creating notices (because
PHP first would try to interpret first_name as a constant) but you won't see
them unless you have E_ALL as your error reporting level.  This is an
instance of PHP being "nice" by second guessing what the code actually
means.

> Then I also had something like:
> Version C:
> $print_first_name = "You said your first_name is " .
> $_SESSION['first_name'] . ".";
> 
> Now I think Version C is technically correct, and the decision to use
> A or C is based on personal preference.

Agreed, it's a matter of preference.  There was a time in PHP when using
double quotes resulted in extra overhead because of some bug.  I don't
remember all the details, but as I remember this has been long corrected (I
believe by Andi).

Personally, I prefer Version A because it's easier to read.  I've never been
a fan of breaking strings up into a lot of concatenations with the period.

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Oct 30 16:18:42 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:18:42 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] similar open source program?
In-Reply-To: <4364B61A.2090106@travelersdiary.com>
References: <4364B61A.2090106@travelersdiary.com>
Message-ID: <9112-93907@sneakemail.com>

Josh McCormack joshmccormack-at-travelersdiary.com |nyphp dev/internal 
group use| wrote:

>Anyone know of a photo gallery script that's open source and similar to 
>this:
>
>http://www.lightboxphoto.com/gallery_software/features.htm
>
>Particularly the sales related things, like invoicing, tax, shipping, 
>download rights, etc.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Josh
>  
>
Never sure but this smells like spam.... I just turned down a request to 
"ninja market" a web service doing this. The client spec was a perfect 
fit (although it was a different product):

- locate up to 100 mailing lists of open source programers or hackers
- post an inquiry looking for "anything similar" to our product, and use 
the URL provided
- make an "in search of" post looking for anything better than our 
product. Use URL below.
- be sure to mention the features marked "A" and optionally those marked "B"
- you may deviate of course from the suggestions but do not mention 
items D or E
- save initial post and subsequent posts to same thread, or parallel 
threads if datestamped after initial post and discussing our product. 
You get credit for them all.


I wish people would understand than SEO is not "spamming" because I seem 
to get 10 requests to spam for every request for optimization. With the 
latest Google update it seems things will only get worse.

My apologies if Josh was *not* spamming the list... I tried to make this 
post demonstrative, because it is so much like list spam.

-=john andrews
http://www.seo-fun.com






From rolan at omnistep.com  Sun Oct 30 16:48:08 2005
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:48:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] similar open source program?
In-Reply-To: <9112-93907@sneakemail.com>
References: <4364B61A.2090106@travelersdiary.com> <9112-93907@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <43653F98.7050807@omnistep.com>

inforequest wrote:

>Josh McCormack joshmccormack-at-travelersdiary.com |nyphp dev/internal 
>group use| wrote:
>  
>
>>this:
>>
>>http: / /www.l-i-g-h-t-b-o-x-p-h-o-t-o.com/gallery_software/features.htm
>>
>>Particularly the sales related things, like invoicing, tax, shipping, 
>>downloa
>>    
>>
>Never sure but this smells like spam.... I just turned down a request to 
>"ninja market" a web service doing this. The client spec was a perfect 
>fit (although it was a different product):
>
>..... snip... 
>  
>
>My apologies if Josh was *not* spamming the list... I tried to make this 
>post demonstrative, because it is so much like list spam.
>
>-=john andrews
>  
>
That is really clever. The thought of this never even crossed my mind.

~Rolan


From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Sun Oct 30 17:00:10 2005
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:00:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed
References: <20051030045433.26414.qmail@web50214.mail.yahoo.com>
	<4364EDFF.5060703@php.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c5dd9d$4c8b9ff0$6401a8c0@ced>

Chris,

Thanks for the moderation/clarification. Sometimes e-mail juist has that way
of displacing tone and vocal inflection... go figure. =D

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Shiflett" <shiflett at php.net>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] NYC Programmer Needed


Susan Shemin wrote:
> Your comment is inappropriate. There are women on this list even
> though you guys try to keep us out of programming.

Actually, your comment is inappropriate:

1. What you found offensive in Edward's post is exactly what he is
questioning. In other words, he also found the phrase alarming and is
asking whether the post is legitimate. Because he had the same reaction
as you, you've chosen to personally attack him. Personal attacks are not
tolerated here.

2. Your generalization is exactly the type of offensive remark that you
mistakenly thought Edward had made. This is blatant hypocrisy and a step
(or several steps) in the wrong direction.

For the record, "Stitch and Bitch" seems legitimate:

http://www.sewfastseweasy.com/stitch.html

Most of the people there (mostly women) seem to "get it" and realize
that it's an informal, funny reference to sewing and chatting.

Chris

--
Chris Shiflett
Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy
http://brainbulb.com/
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Talk Mailing List
AMP Technology
Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
http://www.nyphp.org




From joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com  Sun Oct 30 17:17:48 2005
From: joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com (Josh McCormack)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:17:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] similar open source program?
In-Reply-To: <9112-93907@sneakemail.com>
References: <4364B61A.2090106@travelersdiary.com> <9112-93907@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <4365468C.100@travelersdiary.com>

I wrote it with my own little spam free fingers. I have a pro 
photographer friend of mine who was thinking of buying that software, 
but it seemed like there must be something similar in the open source 
world. And if not a perfect fit, I'd happily contribute time/money to 
bring it along.

Josh

inforequest wrote:
> Josh McCormack joshmccormack-at-travelersdiary.com |nyphp dev/internal 
> group use| wrote:
> 
> 
>>Anyone know of a photo gallery script that's open source and similar to 
>>this:
>>
>>http://www.lightboxphoto.com/gallery_software/features.htm
>>
>>Particularly the sales related things, like invoicing, tax, shipping, 
>>download rights, etc.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Josh
>> 
>>
> 
> Never sure but this smells like spam.... I just turned down a request to 
> "ninja market" a web service doing this. The client spec was a perfect 
> fit (although it was a different product):
> 
> - locate up to 100 mailing lists of open source programers or hackers
> - post an inquiry looking for "anything similar" to our product, and use 
> the URL provided
> - make an "in search of" post looking for anything better than our 
> product. Use URL below.
> - be sure to mention the features marked "A" and optionally those marked "B"
> - you may deviate of course from the suggestions but do not mention 
> items D or E
> - save initial post and subsequent posts to same thread, or parallel 
> threads if datestamped after initial post and discussing our product. 
> You get credit for them all.
> 
> 
> I wish people would understand than SEO is not "spamming" because I seem 
> to get 10 requests to spam for every request for optimization. With the 
> latest Google update it seems things will only get worse.
> 
> My apologies if Josh was *not* spamming the list... I tried to make this 
> post demonstrative, because it is so much like list spam.
> 
> -=john andrews
> http://www.seo-fun.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
> 


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sun Oct 30 17:51:22 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:51:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] freebsd, apache, mod_ssl problems
Message-ID: <20051030225122.GA28381@panix.com>

Hey Folks:

I've installed FreeBSD on my laptop.  I've compiled Apache with mod_ssl.  
When I go to http://localhost/, we're good.  But when I try to do 
https://localhost/, I get a connection refused error.

I set up the test cert using "localhost" as the domain name.

The only change I made to httpd.conf is setting ServerName to "localhost".

The logs are below:

error_log
---------
[Sun Oct 30 18:13:01 2005] [alert] httpd: Could not determine the 
 server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.0.1 for ServerName
[Sun Oct 30 18:13:01 2005] [notice] Apache/1.3.34 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.8.25 
 OpenSSL/0.9.7e configured -- resuming normal operations
[Sun Oct 30 18:13:01 2005] [notice] Accept mutex: flock (Default: flock)

ssl_engine_log
--------------
[30/Oct/2005 18:13:01 52128] [info]  Init: 1st restart round (already detached)
[30/Oct/2005 18:13:01 52128] [info]  Init: Seeding PRNG with 1160 bytes 
 of entropy
[30/Oct/2005 18:13:01 52128] [info]  Init: Configuring temporary RSA 
 private keys (512/1024 bits)
[30/Oct/2005 18:13:01 52128] [info]  Init: Configuring temporary DH 
 parameters (512/1024 bits)
[30/Oct/2005 18:13:01 52128] [info]  Init: Initializing (virtual) servers 
 for SSL

Any ideas, please?

Thanks,

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From krook at us.ibm.com  Sun Oct 30 18:07:03 2005
From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:07:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] freebsd, apache, mod_ssl problems
In-Reply-To: <20051030225122.GA28381@panix.com>
Message-ID: <OFFB90A42E.9907E66C-ON852570AA.007EB2FF-852570AA.007EF8D5@us.ibm.com>

> Hey Folks:
> 
> I've installed FreeBSD on my laptop.  I've compiled Apache
> with mod_ssl. 
> When I go to http://localhost/, we're good.  But when I try to do 
> https://localhost/, I get a connection refused error.
> 
> I set up the test cert using "localhost" as the domain name.
> 
> The only change I made to httpd.conf is setting ServerName
> to "localhost".


Dan,

This could be a lot of things, but since you say you didn't make any 
modifications to httpd.conf this would be my first guess... do you have 
this in there?

<IfDefine SSL>
Listen 80
Listen 443
</IfDefine>

And started w/ apachectl startssl ?



Daniel Krook, Advisory IT Specialist 
Application Development, Production Services - Tools, ibm.com

Personal: http://info.krook.org/
BluePages: http://bluepages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/
BlogPages: http://blogpages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/




From andrew at plexpod.com  Sun Oct 30 18:09:30 2005
From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:09:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] freebsd, apache, mod_ssl problems
In-Reply-To: <20051030225122.GA28381@panix.com>
References: <20051030225122.GA28381@panix.com>
Message-ID: <20051030230930.GB12063@desario.homelinux.net>

On Sun, Oct 30, 2005 at 05:51:22PM -0500, Daniel Convissor wrote:
> Hey Folks:
> 
> I've installed FreeBSD on my laptop.  I've compiled Apache with mod_ssl.  
> When I go to http://localhost/, we're good.  But when I try to do 
> https://localhost/, I get a connection refused error.

Your SSL config might be in an <IfDefine SSL> block...  If so, make sure
you start it with the "-D SSL" options to define that var at startup.
Some apache init scripts have a "start" (w/o -D SSL) and a "startssl"
(w/ -D SSL) if you're using one... I can't say what the FreeBSD default
setup is though.

HTH,
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Yochum
Plexpod
andrew at plexpod.com
718-360-0879


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sun Oct 30 18:14:25 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:14:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] freebsd, apache, mod_ssl problems
In-Reply-To: <OFFB90A42E.9907E66C-ON852570AA.007EB2FF-852570AA.007EF8D5@us.ibm.com>
References: <20051030225122.GA28381@panix.com>
	<OFFB90A42E.9907E66C-ON852570AA.007EB2FF-852570AA.007EF8D5@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <20051030231425.GA27898@panix.com>

On Sun, Oct 30, 2005 at 06:07:03PM -0500, Daniel Krook wrote:
> 
> And started w/ apachectl startssl ?

DING!

Thanks!

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 18:24:12 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:24:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <004201c5dd90$955238f0$6401a8c0@MobileZ>
References: <330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>
	<004201c5dd90$955238f0$6401a8c0@MobileZ>
Message-ID: <b76252690510301524u44727ee2t71a4c97ed3dc767@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/30/05, Hans Zaunere <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:

> As Roland points out, for huge tree structures, it's better done outside of
> SQL.  SQL isn't well suited for describing complex tree structures, but NSM
> has been the most versatile, robust and fastest implementation I've seen.
> I've had test trees with well over 100k rows and no problems.

Hans (or anyone) you can contact me off-list if this is too basic a
question, but what are the other ways to store tree structures outside
of SQL?


--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Sun Oct 30 19:37:15 2005
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:37:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] database performance
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510301524u44727ee2t71a4c97ed3dc767@mail.gmail.com>
References: <330532b60510271719t566febc1s696946feb2e71945@mail.gmail.com>	<004201c5dd90$955238f0$6401a8c0@MobileZ>
	<b76252690510301524u44727ee2t71a4c97ed3dc767@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43656739.7000207@tgaconnect.com>

chsnyder at gmail.com writes:
 >Hans (or anyone) you can contact me off-list if this is too basic a
 >question, but what are the other ways to store tree structures outside
 >of SQL?

Okay, this is not a direct answer to 'ways to store trees'
But this page:
http://www.nist.gov/dads/terms2.html
has information about ways to do lots of things...

-- 
T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Oct 30 21:55:45 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:55:45 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] similar open source program?
In-Reply-To: <4365468C.100@travelersdiary.com>
References: <4364B61A.2090106@travelersdiary.com> <9112-93907@sneakemail.com>
	<4365468C.100@travelersdiary.com>
Message-ID: <5663-11249@sneakemail.com>

Josh McCormack joshmccormack-at-travelersdiary.com |nyphp dev/internal 
group use| wrote:

>I wrote it with my own little spam free fingers. I have a pro 
>photographer friend of mine who was thinking of buying that software, 
>but it seemed like there must be something similar in the open source 
>world. And if not a perfect fit, I'd happily contribute time/money to 
>bring it along.
>
>Josh
>
There you go. Spammers are achieving perfection; mimicking you. Take it 
as a compliment ;-)

As for galleries, I can't stop and look at the one you posted, but 
ZenPhoto is in beta (that's Photostack revisited). http://www.zenphoto.org/

I've worked with http://pixelpost.org/ Pixelpost and minigal 
http://www.minigal.dk with good results.

-=john andrews
http://www.seo-fun.com



From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Oct 30 21:57:01 2005
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:57:01 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] similar open source program?
In-Reply-To: <4365468C.100@travelersdiary.com>
References: <4364B61A.2090106@travelersdiary.com> <9112-93907@sneakemail.com>
	<4365468C.100@travelersdiary.com>
Message-ID: <9491-98141@sneakemail.com>

and of course many others

http://wiki.photoblogs.org/wiki/Photoblog_Scripts_and_Programs

-=john andrews
http://www.seo-fun.com



From codebowl at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 09:14:55 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:14:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Exporting Gmail Contacts
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510310614q77c25ff9ia12bdf7e146f5d27@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys,

I came accross a script called handshake it is a social networking
application, once i registered i noticed they had the ability for you to
import your gmail contacts so that you could easilly invite people to the
site by using your gmail contacts. Has anyone see how to read a list from
your contacts on gmail? This site asked for your gmail username/password
then would reach out and grab your lost of contacts for use on the site. Has
anyone seen anything pre-made that will do this or is this something i will
have to make myself ;)

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 09:41:24 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:41:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Exporting Gmail Contacts
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800510310614q77c25ff9ia12bdf7e146f5d27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510310614q77c25ff9ia12bdf7e146f5d27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510310641t40033729i68b9bab343141dcd@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/31/05, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
>  I came accross a script called handshake it is a social networking
> application, once i registered i noticed they had the ability for you to
> import your gmail contacts so that you could easilly invite people to the
> site by using your gmail contacts.  Has anyone see how to read a list from
> your contacts on gmail?  This site asked for your gmail username/password
> then would reach out and grab your lost of contacts for use on the site.
> Has anyone seen anything pre-made that will do this or is this something i
> will have to make myself ;)

Grab an RSS parser and a Gmail account and get to it.

On the whole, GMail is RSS enabled throughout, so you can grab feeds
of current messages, contacts, label contents, etc.

There is also a handy export function within the GMail Contacts
interface (upper right). From the GUI:

"Export Contacts
Export your contacts so you can transfer them to other accounts or
save them offline.
We will export all of your contacts in the CSV file format (Comma
Separated Values).   Learn more
Gmail CSV (for import into another Gmail account)
Outlook CSV (for import into Outlook clients)"

What more would you need?


--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From yournway at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 09:46:35 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:46:35 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Exporting Gmail Contacts
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510310641t40033729i68b9bab343141dcd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510310614q77c25ff9ia12bdf7e146f5d27@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510310641t40033729i68b9bab343141dcd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <edce57650510310646m46653d5ay@mail.gmail.com>

uhhh Chris...

Maybe it's just me, but on my gmail I don't see any "export"
feature... not anywhere... though I'd like too, .-)

On 31/10/05, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/31/05, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey guys,
> >
> >  I came accross a script called handshake it is a social networking
> > application, once i registered i noticed they had the ability for you to
> > import your gmail contacts so that you could easilly invite people to the
> > site by using your gmail contacts.  Has anyone see how to read a list from
> > your contacts on gmail?  This site asked for your gmail username/password
> > then would reach out and grab your lost of contacts for use on the site.
> > Has anyone seen anything pre-made that will do this or is this something i
> > will have to make myself ;)
> )
> Grab an RSS parser and a Gmail account and get to it.
>
> On the whole, GMail is RSS enabled throughout, so you can grab feeds
> of current messages, contacts, label contents, etc.
>
> There is also a handy export function within the GMail Contacts
> interface (upper right). From the GUI:
>
> "Export Contacts
> Export your contacts so you can transfer them to other accounts or
> save them offline.
> We will export all of your contacts in the CSV file format (Comma
> Separated Values).   Learn more
> Gmail CSV (for import into another Gmail account)
> Outlook CSV (for import into Outlook clients)"
>
> What more would you need?
>
>
> --
> Chris Snyder
> http://chxo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.


From codebowl at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 09:48:57 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:48:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Exporting Gmail Contacts
In-Reply-To: <edce57650510310646m46653d5ay@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510310614q77c25ff9ia12bdf7e146f5d27@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510310641t40033729i68b9bab343141dcd@mail.gmail.com>
	<edce57650510310646m46653d5ay@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510310648y16f663d0g9bd898ff4836baf5@mail.gmail.com>

i do see the export feature however trying to figure out how to link
directly so that it returned the csv i have been unable to figure out.

as for the RSS i have not looked into that yet. Although using php on my
site to remotely grab a csv file would be perfect.

I am not looking to export from within my browser while looking at my gmail
account, i am trying to do this behind the scenes from my website.

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 09:50:46 2005
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:50:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Exporting Gmail Contacts
In-Reply-To: <edce57650510310646m46653d5ay@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510310614q77c25ff9ia12bdf7e146f5d27@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510310641t40033729i68b9bab343141dcd@mail.gmail.com>
	<edce57650510310646m46653d5ay@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690510310650s7b0e1390ha72f8a1f5c77b05d@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/31/05, Alberto dos Santos <yournway at gmail.com> wrote:
> uhhh Chris...
>
> Maybe it's just me, but on my gmail I don't see any "export"
> feature... not anywhere... though I'd like too, .-)
>

Hmmm.

I click Contacts, and in the upper right above my List of Contacts I
see Import and Export links. Granted, the Export link is marked "New!"
so maybe this isn't rolled out completely.


--
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/

From yournway at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 09:51:53 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:51:53 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Exporting Gmail Contacts
In-Reply-To: <b76252690510310650s7b0e1390ha72f8a1f5c77b05d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510310614q77c25ff9ia12bdf7e146f5d27@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510310641t40033729i68b9bab343141dcd@mail.gmail.com>
	<edce57650510310646m46653d5ay@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510310650s7b0e1390ha72f8a1f5c77b05d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <edce57650510310651o1c82ac1dj@mail.gmail.com>

maybe, because mine just shows import...you lucky you...

On 31/10/05, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/31/05, Alberto dos Santos <yournway at gmail.com> wrote:
> > uhhh Chris...
> >
> > Maybe it's just me, but on my gmail I don't see any "export"
> > feature... not anywhere... though I'd like too, .-)
> >
>
> Hmmm.
>
> I click Contacts, and in the upper right above my List of Contacts I
> see Import and Export links. Granted, the Export link is marked "New!"
> so maybe this isn't rolled out completely.
>
>
> --
> Chris Snyder
> http://chxo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.


From yournway at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 10:28:13 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:28:13 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
In-Reply-To: <435CD52D.5060100@polymerdb.org>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221625110.56309@emra.pair.com>
	<001001c5d74a$21934ae0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221800560.95780@emra.pair.com>
	<003a01c5d755$53f67560$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510231457190.95780@emra.pair.com>
	<435CD52D.5060100@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <edce57650510310728i6e8b9ac9u@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I chose to follow this thread because it's exacly what I need.
I need a mailer class but I don't use PEAR, can anybody recommend an
easy and tested one (if there is such a thing)

Thank you.


On 24/10/05, W. @llen Shaw <ashaw at polymerdb.org> wrote:
> David Mintz wrote:
> > One thing I'm not clear on (said he, modulating into another topic) is
> > whether we are supposed to put double-quotes around "John Daly," to use
> > your example. It appears that we are.
>
> Right, me too, though it seems to me that rfc 2822
> (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2822.txt) makes no mention of quoting
> the display-name.
>
> However, it is true that if your display-name has any special characters
> in it (this includes the "period" character ".", among other things) and
> you don't double-quote it, PEAR Mail is going to refuse to send it,
> saying "validation failed for W. Allen Shaw <ashaw at polymerdb.org>"
>
> Note this interesting snippet from RFC 2822:
> >    Note: The "period" (or "full stop") character (".") in obs-phrase is
> >    not a form that was allowed in earlier versions of this or any other
> >    standard.  Period (nor any other character from specials) was not
> >    allowed in phrase because it introduced a parsing difficulty
> >    distinguishing between phrases and portions of an addr-spec (see
> >    section 4.4).  It appears here because the period character is
> >    currently used in many messages in the display-name portion of
> >    addresses, especially for initials in names, and therefore must be
> >    interpreted properly.  In the future, period may appear in the
> >    regular syntax of phrase.
>
> Apparently current email implementations are handling special characters
> in display-name on their own terms; I would think it's wise to use
> double-quotes around the display-name unless you know for sure they
> won't use special characters.
>
> BTW, I'm glad you asked, as it gave me finally the extra curiosity to
> learn more.  Hopefully somebody will correct me if I'm wrong here.
>
> Take care,
> Allen
>
>
> --
> Allen Shaw
> Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Oct 31 10:33:27 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:33:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
In-Reply-To: <edce57650510310728i6e8b9ac9u@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221625110.56309@emra.pair.com>	<001001c5d74a$21934ae0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221800560.95780@emra.pair.com>	<003a01c5d755$53f67560$6401a8c0@GUITAR>	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510231457190.95780@emra.pair.com>	<435CD52D.5060100@polymerdb.org>
	<edce57650510310728i6e8b9ac9u@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43663947.4080602@phpwerx.net>

PHPMailer (http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/)

Done.

Dan Cech

Alberto dos Santos wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I chose to follow this thread because it's exacly what I need.
> I need a mailer class but I don't use PEAR, can anybody recommend an
> easy and tested one (if there is such a thing)
> 
> Thank you.


From yournway at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 10:34:34 2005
From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:34:34 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR Mail and pine "To:" peculiarity
In-Reply-To: <43663947.4080602@phpwerx.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221625110.56309@emra.pair.com>
	<001001c5d74a$21934ae0$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510221800560.95780@emra.pair.com>
	<003a01c5d755$53f67560$6401a8c0@GUITAR>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0510231457190.95780@emra.pair.com>
	<435CD52D.5060100@polymerdb.org>
	<edce57650510310728i6e8b9ac9u@mail.gmail.com>
	<43663947.4080602@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <edce57650510310734r451aeb0n@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks.

On 31/10/05, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:
> PHPMailer (http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/)
>
> Done.
>
> Dan Cech
>
> Alberto dos Santos wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I chose to follow this thread because it's exacly what I need.
> > I need a mailer class but I don't use PEAR, can anybody recommend an
> > easy and tested one (if there is such a thing)
> >
> > Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


--
Alberto dos Santos
Consultor em TI
IT Consultant

http://www.yournway.com
A internet ? sua maneira.
The Internet your own way.


From codebowl at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 10:56:51 2005
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:56:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Exporting Gmail Contacts
In-Reply-To: <edce57650510310651o1c82ac1dj@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800510310614q77c25ff9ia12bdf7e146f5d27@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510310641t40033729i68b9bab343141dcd@mail.gmail.com>
	<edce57650510310646m46653d5ay@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690510310650s7b0e1390ha72f8a1f5c77b05d@mail.gmail.com>
	<edce57650510310651o1c82ac1dj@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800510310756i3d601da7wd66e89cd8d65f718@mail.gmail.com>

i have found libgmailer and gmail-lite, libgmailer allows me to grab my
contacts, it shows exactly how to grab them, must use cookies etc.. and curl
to fetch them ;) Maybe i will write my own maybe i will just use this
library ;)

--
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
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From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Mon Oct 31 11:20:11 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:20:11 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] getting my head around heirarchical structures
In-Reply-To: <41120.38.117.147.25.1130685519.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
References: <4363B05E.5000900@tgaconnect.com>	<40773.38.117.147.25.1130614916.squirrel@38.117.147.25>	<4364361D.1060904@polymerdb.org>
	<41120.38.117.147.25.1130685519.squirrel@38.117.147.25>
Message-ID: <4366443B.6080704@polymerdb.org>

Kenneth Downs wrote:
>>Kenneth Downs wrote:
>>
>>>>One suggestion I would make is that each filter be given a name instead
>>>>of
>>>>an ID, and possibly let the user choose the name.  Then the filters
>>>>behave
>>>>like functions.  This makes nesting more intuitive.  So I can put two
>>>>filters into your table:
>>
>>This is not such a bad idea, but it requires me (or whatever admin) to
>>create the filters ahead of time and offer them to the user.  ...
> 
> 
> Not at all.  You can provide pre-defined filters if you like, or fall back
> to system-generated pseudo-names when the user is just typing in criteria.
> 
> To validate the criteria, you need a data dictionary.  To make the
> validation completely simple, you need to specify the criteria entirely in
> atomic values, and not allow parsable expressions.

Just as a follow-up: I think this discussion and the few days it's taken 
to transpire have led me to believe that, on the original question of 
data structure for nested filter criteria, my basic idea in the 
beginning was right: this is clearly a heirarchical relationship. But 
after digging more on the nested set model (reference recent thread 
"database performance"), I think I should be using that model rather 
than trying to tie records back to their parent nodes with a "parentID" 
column.  Thanks to Ken and others for ideas on the interface and 
management of those filters.

- Allen



-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From ken at secdat.com  Mon Oct 31 12:02:04 2005
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:02:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] freebsd, apache, mod_ssl problems
In-Reply-To: <20051030225122.GA28381@panix.com>
References: <20051030225122.GA28381@panix.com>
Message-ID: <32809.38.117.147.25.1130778124.squirrel@38.117.147.25>

In Gentoo Linux we have to activate SSL by using the parameter "-D SSL"
which is set in /etc/conf.d/apache2.  I would think it would be close if
not the same in BSD, since it is an apache configuration issue.

If there is a place where you turned on PHP, that is where you turn on
SSL, so that in my /ect/conf.d/apache2 I also have to set "-D PHP5"

> Hey Folks:
>
> I've installed FreeBSD on my laptop.  I've compiled Apache with mod_ssl.
> When I go to http://localhost/, we're good.  But when I try to do
> https://localhost/, I get a connection refused error.
>
> I set up the test cert using "localhost" as the domain name.
>
> The only change I made to httpd.conf is setting ServerName to "localhost".
>
> The logs are below:
>
> error_log
> ---------
> [Sun Oct 30 18:13:01 2005] [alert] httpd: Could not determine the
>  server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.0.1 for ServerName
> [Sun Oct 30 18:13:01 2005] [notice] Apache/1.3.34 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.8.25
>  OpenSSL/0.9.7e configured -- resuming normal operations
> [Sun Oct 30 18:13:01 2005] [notice] Accept mutex: flock (Default: flock)
>
> ssl_engine_log
> --------------
> [30/Oct/2005 18:13:01 52128] [info]  Init: 1st restart round (already
> detached)
> [30/Oct/2005 18:13:01 52128] [info]  Init: Seeding PRNG with 1160 bytes
>  of entropy
> [30/Oct/2005 18:13:01 52128] [info]  Init: Configuring temporary RSA
>  private keys (512/1024 bits)
> [30/Oct/2005 18:13:01 52128] [info]  Init: Configuring temporary DH
>  parameters (512/1024 bits)
> [30/Oct/2005 18:13:01 52128] [info]  Init: Initializing (virtual) servers
>  for SSL
>
> Any ideas, please?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Dan
>
> --
>  T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
>             data intensive web and database programming
>                 http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
>  4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software
631-379-0010
ken at secdat.com
PO Box 708
East Setauket, NY 11733



From jkelly at sussex.edu  Mon Oct 31 13:51:25 2005
From: jkelly at sussex.edu (jessica kelly)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 13:51:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htaccess/php question
Message-ID: <s366216b.060@webmail.sussex.edu>

Hi All,

Trying to get a single .htm file in one directory parsed by PHP using htaccess in the directory. Powers that be won't let me use a .php extension. Can't seem to get it going. Don't want it parsing in lower directories.  This is what I have in the htaccess file in the folder I want the file to be parsed:

<Files "C:/apache/Apache/blablabla/test.htm">
AddType application/x-httpd-php .htm .html 
</Files>

This is what I have in the httpd.conf file:

<Directory C:/apache/Apache/blablabla/test.htm">
     Options All
     AllowOverride All
</Directory>

Been googling & reading the htaccess manual but at a loss.

TIA,

Jessica


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Oct 31 15:40:58 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:40:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htaccess/php question
In-Reply-To: <s366216b.060@webmail.sussex.edu>
References: <s366216b.060@webmail.sussex.edu>
Message-ID: <4366815A.7060101@phpwerx.net>

Jessica,

Unfortunately the Files directive only operates on the basename of the 
file, so in your case the directive would be:

<Files "test.htm">
   AddType application/x-httpd-php .htm
</Files>

You could also use the ForceType directive instead of AddType, like so:

<Files "test.htm">
   ForceType application/x-httpd-php
</Files>

This is probably the best way to do what you're after.

HTH

Dan

jessica kelly wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Trying to get a single .htm file in one directory parsed by PHP using htaccess in the directory. Powers that be won't let me use a .php extension. Can't seem to get it going. Don't want it parsing in lower directories.  This is what I have in the htaccess file in the folder I want the file to be parsed:
> 
> <Files "C:/apache/Apache/blablabla/test.htm">
> AddType application/x-httpd-php .htm .html 
> </Files>
> 
> This is what I have in the httpd.conf file:
> 
> <Directory C:/apache/Apache/blablabla/test.htm">
>      Options All
>      AllowOverride All
> </Directory>
> 
> Been googling & reading the htaccess manual but at a loss.
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Jessica



From suzerain at suzerain.com  Mon Oct 31 16:54:07 2005
From: suzerain at suzerain.com (Marc Antony Vose)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:54:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] form element arrays
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
	<8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06230906bf8c3f3d9719@[192.168.1.44]>

Hi there:

Honestly, I'm posting this before I've completely exhausted my 
troubleshooting options, but I figured someone might be bored enough 
to beat me to it.

I have a select element for which I need to return multiply selected 
items to PHP.  In other words, I guess it has to have the name 
'something[]', with brackets.

However, I also need to add options to the select list via 
javascript, but it seems like the addition of the brackets makes the 
form element name invalid, by javascript's standards, since you 
access attributes of objects with brackets (i.e., JavaScript can't 
see an element named 'something[]').

It looks like I'm going to have to use the select list to just 
display the options to the user, but really use DOM to dynamically 
add hidden form elements to the form which hold the values I need, as 
a nasty workaround, but I was wondering if anyone else had any silver 
bullet for this.

Cheers,

-- 
Marc Antony Vose
http://www.suzerain.com/

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
-- Lazarus Long


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Mon Oct 31 17:14:59 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:14:59 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] pretty-print / parse sql
Message-ID: <43669763.9070006@polymerdb.org>

Hi All,

Does anyone know of an existing (open-source) PHP library that will
pretty-print sql statements?  I'm looking into phpMyAdmin code, and it
doesn't seem such a mess as I might make myself, but if there's
something that could work for this out-of-th-box, I'd much rather use it
than decipher and re-assemble phpMyAdmin for my own use.

I googled around for and found several programs to parse sql statements,
but none in PHP.  Seems like this is something people would use...

Thanks,
Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Mon Oct 31 17:22:59 2005
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:22:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] form element arrays
In-Reply-To: <p06230906bf8c3f3d9719@[192.168.1.44]>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>	<8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230906bf8c3f3d9719@[192.168.1.44]>
Message-ID: <43669943.4010101@tgaconnect.com>

Marc Antony Vose wrote:

>I have a select element for which I need to return multiply selected 
>items to PHP.  In other words, I guess it has to have the name 
>'something[]', with brackets.
>
>However, I also need to add options to the select list via 
>javascript, but it seems like the addition of the brackets makes the 
>form element name invalid, by javascript's standards, since you 
>access attributes of objects with brackets (i.e., JavaScript can't 
>see an element named 'something[]').

Maybe getElementById() can help.

see:
http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2004-July/011083.html
and
http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2004-July/011100.html


-- 
T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Oct 31 17:24:11 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:24:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] pretty-print / parse sql
In-Reply-To: <43669763.9070006@polymerdb.org>
References: <43669763.9070006@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <4366998B.105@phpwerx.net>

I've had success with PEAR::Text_Highlighter in the past, it has a 
pretty robust parsing engine and plenty of flexibility.

http://pear.php.net/package/Text_Highlighter

Dan

Allen Shaw wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Does anyone know of an existing (open-source) PHP library that will
> pretty-print sql statements?  I'm looking into phpMyAdmin code, and it
> doesn't seem such a mess as I might make myself, but if there's
> something that could work for this out-of-th-box, I'd much rather use it
> than decipher and re-assemble phpMyAdmin for my own use.
> 
> I googled around for and found several programs to parse sql statements,
> but none in PHP.  Seems like this is something people would use...
> 
> Thanks,
> Allen


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Oct 31 17:27:53 2005
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:27:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] form element arrays
In-Reply-To: <p06230906bf8c3f3d9719@[192.168.1.44]>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>	<8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230906bf8c3f3d9719@[192.168.1.44]>
Message-ID: <43669A69.7070908@phpwerx.net>

There are a couple of ways I know of to work around this problem.

1. Set your form up like:

<select name="myselect[]" id="myselect" multiple="multiple">
   <option ...
</select>

The you can access it in javascript via:

document.getElementById('myselect')

2. Use javascript on the onsubmit action of the form to dynamically 
rewrite the names of multiple select boxes.

Personally I tend to use 1, and it seems to work ok.

Dan

Marc Antony Vose wrote:
> Hi there:
> 
> Honestly, I'm posting this before I've completely exhausted my 
> troubleshooting options, but I figured someone might be bored enough 
> to beat me to it.
> 
> I have a select element for which I need to return multiply selected 
> items to PHP.  In other words, I guess it has to have the name 
> 'something[]', with brackets.
> 
> However, I also need to add options to the select list via 
> javascript, but it seems like the addition of the brackets makes the 
> form element name invalid, by javascript's standards, since you 
> access attributes of objects with brackets (i.e., JavaScript can't 
> see an element named 'something[]').
> 
> It looks like I'm going to have to use the select list to just 
> display the options to the user, but really use DOM to dynamically 
> add hidden form elements to the form which hold the values I need, as 
> a nasty workaround, but I was wondering if anyone else had any silver 
> bullet for this.
> 
> Cheers,



From rcozzol at optonline.net  Mon Oct 31 17:28:32 2005
From: rcozzol at optonline.net (rcozzol at optonline.net)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:28:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] form element arrays
In-Reply-To: <43669943.4010101@tgaconnect.com>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
	<8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230906bf8c3f3d9719@[192.168.1.44]>
	<43669943.4010101@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <e01fa8ca83c4.43665440@optonline.net>

just an FYI to anyone this has driven crazy ... as it did me for quite some time.

you can pass it to a javascript function this way (where elementname is the name of the select list)
this.form['elementname[]']

you HAVE to select all the items on the submit() if you want them to come across in the POST, otherwise you will end up without that post element, which becomes phase 2 of driving yourself crazy.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Gales <tgales at tgaconnect.com>
Date: Monday, October 31, 2005 5:22 pm
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] form element arrays

> Marc Antony Vose wrote:
> 
> >I have a select element for which I need to return multiply 
> selected 
> >items to PHP.  In other words, I guess it has to have the name 
> >'something[]', with brackets.
> >
> >However, I also need to add options to the select list via 
> >javascript, but it seems like the addition of the brackets makes 
> the 
> >form element name invalid, by javascript's standards, since you 
> >access attributes of objects with brackets (i.e., JavaScript 
> can't 
> >see an element named 'something[]').
> 
> Maybe getElementById() can help.
> 
> see:
> http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2004-July/011083.html
> and
> http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2004-July/011100.html
> 
> 
> -- 
> T. Gales & Associates
> 'Helping People Connect with Technology'
> 
> http://www.tgaconnect.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
> 


From suzerain at suzerain.com  Mon Oct 31 18:01:08 2005
From: suzerain at suzerain.com (Marc Antony Vose)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:01:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] form element arrays
In-Reply-To: <e01fa8ca83c4.43665440@optonline.net>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
	<8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230906bf8c3f3d9719@[192.168.1.44]>	<43669943.4010101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e01fa8ca83c4.43665440@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <p06230907bf8c52681542@[192.168.1.44]>

>just an FYI to anyone this has driven crazy ... as it did me for 
>quite some time.
>
>you can pass it to a javascript function this way (where elementname 
>is the name of the select list)
>this.form['elementname[]']
>
>you HAVE to select all the items on the submit() if you want them to 
>come across in the POST, otherwise you will end up without that post 
>element, which becomes phase 2 of driving yourself crazy.
>


Hey, thanks much, y'all.

I thought I had properly tried accessing them in quotes, but there 
was one place I had missed it.

And, getElementByID is probably a better way, anyway.  I need to get 
my mind into the new 'DOM' way of thinking; I learned JavaScript back 
in the - eeek - '90s.

Cheers,

-- 
Marc Antony Vose
http://www.suzerain.com/

The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
-- Bruce Ediger


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Mon Oct 31 18:13:31 2005
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:13:31 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] pretty-print / parse sql
In-Reply-To: <4366998B.105@phpwerx.net>
References: <43669763.9070006@polymerdb.org> <4366998B.105@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <4366A51B.7090904@polymerdb.org>

Yes, It looks pretty robust and quite flexible.  Will look into it more. 
Thanks!

Dan Cech wrote:
> I've had success with PEAR::Text_Highlighter in the past, it has a 
> pretty robust parsing engine and plenty of flexibility.
> 
> http://pear.php.net/package/Text_Highlighter
> 
> Dan

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)


From jeff.knight at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 19:24:06 2005
From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:24:06 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] form element arrays
In-Reply-To: <p06230906bf8c3f3d9719@192.168.1.44>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
	<8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230906bf8c3f3d9719@192.168.1.44>
Message-ID: <2ca9ba910510311624s52c80b2sf5a1b6cec2a09a7f@mail.gmail.com>

I've been known to get quite carried away with naming form elements as
nested arrays, often dynamically generated, and have found that using the
elements[] property of the form object works best for me. To access the
elements of the form named 'example_form'

<form action='x.php' name='example_form' method='post'>
<input type='hidden' name='userdata[hidden_group_1][first]' value='one'>
<input type='hidden' name='userdata[hidden_group_1][second]' value='two'>
<input type='hidden' name='userdata[hidden_group_2][third]' value='three'>
<input type='hidden' name='userdata[hidden_group_2][fourth]' value='four'>
</form>

use a javascript like

document.example_form.elements['userdata[hidden_group_2][third]'].value



On 10/31/05, Marc Antony Vose <suzerain at suzerain.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there:
>
> Honestly, I'm posting this before I've completely exhausted my
> troubleshooting options, but I figured someone might be bored enough
> to beat me to it.
>
> I have a select element for which I need to return multiply selected
> items to PHP. In other words, I guess it has to have the name
> 'something[]', with brackets.
>
> However, I also need to add options to the select list via
> javascript, but it seems like the addition of the brackets makes the
> form element name invalid, by javascript's standards, since you
> access attributes of objects with brackets (i.e., JavaScript can't
> see an element named 'something[]').
>
> It looks like I'm going to have to use the select list to just
> display the options to the user, but really use DOM to dynamically
> add hidden form elements to the form which hold the values I need, as
> a nasty workaround, but I was wondering if anyone else had any silver
> bullet for this.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Marc Antony Vose
> http://www.suzerain.com/
>
> Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
> -- Lazarus Long
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Talk Mailing List
> AMP Technology
> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> http://www.nyphp.org
>
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From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Mon Oct 31 19:58:27 2005
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:58:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Variables syntax
In-Reply-To: <BA12F4E4-667E-4918-96E2-ED083760D00A@tmcode.com>
References: <436285A7.9050404@email.smith.edu>
	<8d9a42800510281314p3327599fodbca10bb79e0d2b0@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA12F4E4-667E-4918-96E2-ED083760D00A@tmcode.com>
Message-ID: <20051101005827.GA18350@panix.com>

Hey Tim:

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 04:50:56PM -0400, Tim McEwen wrote:
> 
> ab -n 10 http://localhost/test_a.php
> ...
> Time per request:       28574.142 [ms] (mean)
> ...
> 
> ab -n 10 http://localhost/test_b.php
> ...
> Time per request:       14057.574 [ms] (mean)
> ...

How many times did you run your test?  Things vary between requests.

--Dan

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