From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Thu Feb  1 10:00:17 2007
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:00:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Quebec
Message-ID: <4b1887110702010700s6c3893b3ld7f89aa51a7264a6@mail.gmail.com>

The Jeff says (as in The Cow Says)...

Go to PHP Quebec. It rocks. (ya thats right, I wanted the first February post)

regards,
jeff

---
Jeff Loiselle
Web Developer
http://jeff.loiselles.com


From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com  Thu Feb  1 10:03:48 2007
From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:03:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] "Appropriate use of list" - link broken
In-Reply-To: <00a001c74583$4f632b40$6401a8c0@gamebox>
References: <ead24f050701311347s4c545473rd91d2232c0af5428@mail.gmail.com>
	<4329FD38-C9C6-443A-82EC-63693D6D1A49@email.smith.edu>
	<00a001c74583$4f632b40$6401a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <4b1887110702010703q13ea38c3g1c8bf9d633f89863@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome to the list! PHP is fun, fun, fun...


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Thu Feb  1 10:08:52 2007
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 09:08:52 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Quebec
In-Reply-To: <4b1887110702010700s6c3893b3ld7f89aa51a7264a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b1887110702010700s6c3893b3ld7f89aa51a7264a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45C20284.3000709@polymerdb.org>

Jeff Loiselle wrote:
> The Jeff says (as in The Cow Says)...
> 

:)

Clever. I wonder, does anybody under 30 get that reference?

(And, no I didn't deeply explore PHP Quebec.  But I visited the site. 
Indeed, it rocques, though it does so in a language beyond my accumen.)

- A.

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)


From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Thu Feb  1 11:38:46 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 11:38:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Introduction
Message-ID: <1170347927.5101.10.camel@proberts>

Hello All... Just wanted to make a brief introduction. 

I am stuck down here on the eastern shore of Maryland where I couldn't
seem to find a PHP User Group to save my life, I have a friend who is a
member of the Boston PHP User Group, through him I stumbled upon the NY
Group. I will be in Boston on the 28th of Feburary for their meeting. 

Anyway, my wife and I travel to NYC quite a bit, so I hope to meet some
fellow phper's at some events. 

I have been working with php on and off since about 1998, never really
got serious about it until I got sick of my last job as a network
administrator and quit, afterwhich I realized I have two kids and a wife
and need to put food on the table. Picked up a project to write a leads
focused website for a local real estate broker. Project is a little bit
of a big bite to chew for me, but I am muddling my way through it and
learning a lot. Anyway, through the project I have become obsessed with
MVC theory and OOP, so have fallen in love with php5. 

I am also in the process of building a company called the BMP group in
MD that focuses on developing PHP apps, our main focus however is going
to be pushing open source technology as an alternative to Windows /
Active Directory. I feel I can replace any Windows network with a *nix
based network that runs better, with a lower TCO than any Windows
network. 

Anyway, I look forward to getting to know all of you, and learning, and
teaching php! :) 

Thanks, 
-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Feb  1 12:58:29 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:58:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend remote debugger with PHP5.2
Message-ID: <001001c7462a$947058f0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>

Is anyone using Zend Studio and the remote debugger with PHP 5.2? I
can't get it to work withPHP  5.2, which is very frustrating given that
Zend is the driving force behind PHP and 5.2 is supposed to be the
'secure' production worth release of PHP 5.
 
Cliff
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From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Thu Feb  1 13:07:57 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:07:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Introduction
Message-ID: <1170353278.5101.12.camel@proberts>

Hello All... Just wanted to make a brief introduction. 

I am stuck down here on the eastern shore of Maryland where I couldn't
seem to find a PHP User Group to save my life, I have a friend who is a
member of the Boston PHP User Group, through him I stumbled upon the NY
Group. I will be in Boston on the 28th of Feburary for their meeting. 

Anyway, my wife and I travel to NYC quite a bit, so I hope to meet some
fellow phper's at some events. 

I have been working with php on and off since about 1998, never really
got serious about it until I got sick of my last job as a network
administrator and quit, afterwhich I realized I have two kids and a wife
and need to put food on the table. Picked up a project to write a leads
focused website for a local real estate broker. Project is a little bit
of a big bite to chew for me, but I am muddling my way through it and
learning a lot. Anyway, through the project I have become obsessed with
MVC theory and OOP, so have fallen in love with php5. 

I am also in the process of building a company called the BMP group in
MD that focuses on developing PHP apps, our main focus however is going
to be pushing open source technology as an alternative to Windows /
Active Directory. I feel I can replace any Windows network with a *nix
based network that runs better, with a lower TCO than any Windows
network. 

Anyway, I look forward to getting to know all of you, and learning, and
teaching php! :) 

Thanks,
-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies



From mwithington at PLMresearch.com  Thu Feb  1 13:08:16 2007
From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:08:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend remote debugger with PHP5.2
In-Reply-To: <001001c7462a$947058f0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <001001c7462a$947058f0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <491198290702011008p8da02e6m7202f0825c1a1e18@mail.gmail.com>

Is this on your Mac or Windoz box?

On 2/1/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  Is anyone using Zend Studio and the remote debugger with PHP 5.2? I can't
> get it to work withPHP  5.2, which is very frustrating given that Zend is
> the driving force behind PHP and 5.2 is supposed to be the 'secure'
> production worth release of PHP 5.
>
>
>
> Cliff
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Feb  1 13:32:44 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:32:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend remote debugger with PHP5.2
In-Reply-To: <491198290702011008p8da02e6m7202f0825c1a1e18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1E79C7C.278%cliff@pinestream.com>

So far on WINXP on a MAC. Seems like only Zend Platform 3 beta supports
PHP5.2, and only with its own Zendcore version of PHP. Welcome to
proprietary open source.



On 2/1/07 1:08 PM, "Mark Withington" <mwithington at PLMresearch.com> wrote:

> Is this on your Mac or Windoz box?
> 
> On 2/1/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>> Is anyone using Zend Studio and the remote debugger with PHP 5.2? I can't get
>> it to work withPHP  5.2, which is very frustrating given that Zend is the
>> driving force behind PHP and 5.2 is supposed to be the 'secure' production
>> worth release of PHP 5.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Cliff
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> 
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com  <http://www.nyphpcon.com>
>> 
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> <http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php>
> 
> 


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From tom at supertom.com  Thu Feb  1 13:50:28 2007
From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:50:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend remote debugger with PHP5.2
In-Reply-To: <C1E79C7C.278%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <491198290702011008p8da02e6m7202f0825c1a1e18@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1E79C7C.278%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <117286890702011050h34671184u4f0c787068c89dc1@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/1/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  So far on WINXP on a MAC. Seems like only Zend Platform 3 beta supports
> PHP5.2, and only with its own Zendcore version of PHP. Welcome to
> proprietary open source.
>

Yeah, I'm still on 5.1.6 for this reason, although I haven't looked
into it lately....

If you're filing support tickets with them and they give you an ETA or
other good info, please share!

Thanks,

Tom
http://www.liphp.org


From mwithington at PLMresearch.com  Thu Feb  1 14:00:45 2007
From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:00:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend remote debugger with PHP5.2
In-Reply-To: <117286890702011050h34671184u4f0c787068c89dc1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290702011008p8da02e6m7202f0825c1a1e18@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1E79C7C.278%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<117286890702011050h34671184u4f0c787068c89dc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <491198290702011100g5230fde3h115d1af35b41a1be@mail.gmail.com>

I'm at Studio 5.1.0 on Win 2k...but then again I'm also listening to my
music on 8-tracks ;-)

On 2/1/07, Tom Melendez <tom at supertom.com> wrote:
>
> On 2/1/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> >
> >  So far on WINXP on a MAC. Seems like only Zend Platform 3 beta supports
> > PHP5.2, and only with its own Zendcore version of PHP. Welcome to
> > proprietary open source.
> >
>
> Yeah, I'm still on 5.1.6 for this reason, although I haven't looked
> into it lately....
>
> If you're filing support tickets with them and they give you an ETA or
> other good info, please share!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
> http://www.liphp.org
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
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From ps at sun-code.com  Thu Feb  1 14:29:48 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:29:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Daylight Savings Time Change
Message-ID: <006801c74637$595448f0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

I'll say sorry in advance if this was already discussed, but...
 
The govt changed daylight savings time so that DST starts 
on the second Sunday in March (March 11, 2007) instead 
of the first Sunday in April, and ends on the first Sunday in 
November (November 4) instead of the last Sunday of October.
 
Any conversation/perspectives on how this will work out with 
PHP and date functions?
 
Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code.com 
Web related services 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com
 
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Feb  1 15:52:42 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 15:52:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend remote debugger with PHP5.2
In-Reply-To: <117286890702011050h34671184u4f0c787068c89dc1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <491198290702011008p8da02e6m7202f0825c1a1e18@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1E79C7C.278%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<117286890702011050h34671184u4f0c787068c89dc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070201205242.M80764@pinestream.com>

On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:50:28 -0500, Tom Melendez wrote
> On 2/1/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> >
> >  So far on WINXP on a MAC. Seems like only Zend Platform 3 beta supports
> > PHP5.2, and only with its own Zendcore version of PHP. Welcome to
> > proprietary open source.
> >
> 
> Yeah, I'm still on 5.1.6 for this reason, although I haven't looked
> into it lately....
> 
> If you're filing support tickets with them and they give you an ETA 
> or other good info, please share!

Filed ticket, flamed their sales person, and the battle hasn't even begun. I
am pissed. Just spent $250 to upgrade because their web site said Studio 5.5
supports PHP5.2. WRONG. Wait till they get my credit card chargeback.


From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Thu Feb  1 15:59:16 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:59:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend remote debugger with PHP5.2
In-Reply-To: <20070201205242.M80764@pinestream.com>
References: <491198290702011008p8da02e6m7202f0825c1a1e18@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1E79C7C.278%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<117286890702011050h34671184u4f0c787068c89dc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070201205242.M80764@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <1170363557.5285.1.camel@proberts>

Id be angry too... I am a big proponent of Open Source... :/ No Zend
Studio for me, however the eclipse plugin is nice... 

I just upgraded to the latest snap this morning. 

On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 15:52 -0500, Cliff Hirsch wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:50:28 -0500, Tom Melendez wrote
> > On 2/1/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >  So far on WINXP on a MAC. Seems like only Zend Platform 3 beta supports
> > > PHP5.2, and only with its own Zendcore version of PHP. Welcome to
> > > proprietary open source.
> > >
> > 
> > Yeah, I'm still on 5.1.6 for this reason, although I haven't looked
> > into it lately....
> > 
> > If you're filing support tickets with them and they give you an ETA 
> > or other good info, please share!
> 
> Filed ticket, flamed their sales person, and the battle hasn't even begun. I
> am pissed. Just spent $250 to upgrade because their web site said Studio 5.5
> supports PHP5.2. WRONG. Wait till they get my credit card chargeback.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From marcin.szkudlarek at gmail.com  Fri Feb  2 05:01:40 2007
From: marcin.szkudlarek at gmail.com (Marcin Szkudlarek)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 10:01:40 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] gzip compressed sites
Message-ID: <d2969d250702020201j247ebe9i1908c8831a0a9e81@mail.gmail.com>

1. Is there a way to check in the browser if the page i'm currently
viewing was compressed?

2. Is there a way I can check out the size of the original web page
and the compressed one (which is actually send over the network) ?

Marcin


From cliff at pinestream.com  Fri Feb  2 07:46:22 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 07:46:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Studio PHP5.2 support
Message-ID: <C1E89CCE.2B7%cliff@pinestream.com>

Well...Zend has responded.

The Studio client supports PHP5.1, but remote debugging, which was Studio
Server and is now bundled into Zend Platform does not. In other words,
Studio DOES NOT support php5.2, unless you are so gifted that you write
bug-free code. Or can single-step in your gray matter.

Platform 3 beta supports PHP5.2 using Zendcore. The official release (no
release date provided) will support pre-existing PHP5.2 installations.
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From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Feb  2 08:12:05 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 08:12:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Studio PHP5.2 support
In-Reply-To: <C1E89CCE.2B7%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C1E89CCE.2B7%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702020512g7f973a8ct4bbe26497e0e2a39@mail.gmail.com>

i am still waiting for a version of platform that will run on the
Intel Mac Pro I tried installing the PPC version and it complained
about my processor.

Not to mention 3 beta is not out for os x yet.

-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From jellicle at gmail.com  Fri Feb  2 09:32:06 2007
From: jellicle at gmail.com (Michael Sims)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 09:32:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] gzip compressed sites
In-Reply-To: <d2969d250702020201j247ebe9i1908c8831a0a9e81@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d2969d250702020201j247ebe9i1908c8831a0a9e81@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200702020932.06735.jellicle@gmail.com>

On February 2, 2007, Marcin Szkudlarek wrote:

> 1. Is there a way to check in the browser if the page i'm currently
> viewing was compressed?

If you view the response headers of the page, you'll see something like:

Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Encoding: gzip
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Cache-Control: no-cache,no-store
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:28:05 GMT

The second line tells you (and the web browser) that the page is gzipped.

> 2. Is there a way I can check out the size of the original web page
> and the compressed one (which is actually send over the network) ?

If you install the Web Developer extension for Firefox, there's a selection 
called View Document Size.  Here's a sample from that output:

Documents (1 file)	3 kb (17 kb uncompressed)
Images (6 files)	1 kb
Objects (0 files)	
Scripts (1 file)	1 kb (18 kb uncompressed)
Style Sheets (9 files)	31 kb
Total	36 kb (67 kb uncompressed)

Pretty handy, yes?

Michael Sims



From bgerneglia at gmail.com  Fri Feb  2 10:15:49 2007
From: bgerneglia at gmail.com (Bill Gerneglia)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 10:15:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend remote debugger with PHP5.2
In-Reply-To: <001001c7462a$947058f0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
References: <001001c7462a$947058f0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
Message-ID: <1030d3970702020715p3847785br99f2ad2f71b7e97f@mail.gmail.com>

I could not get the remote debugger to work with PHP version 4.3.11 - i quit
out of frustration..

On 2/1/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  Is anyone using Zend Studio and the remote debugger with PHP 5.2? I can't
> get it to work withPHP  5.2, which is very frustrating given that Zend is
> the driving force behind PHP and 5.2 is supposed to be the 'secure'
> production worth release of PHP 5.
>
>
>
> Cliff
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
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From marcin.szkudlarek at gmail.com  Fri Feb  2 10:37:39 2007
From: marcin.szkudlarek at gmail.com (Marcin Szkudlarek)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 15:37:39 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] gzip compressed sites
In-Reply-To: <200702020932.06735.jellicle@gmail.com>
References: <d2969d250702020201j247ebe9i1908c8831a0a9e81@mail.gmail.com>
	<200702020932.06735.jellicle@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d2969d250702020737t531b6c77h88f669d29c3a435a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Michael, I'll check that out later.
Meanwhile I found a web page which seems to do pretty much the same:
http://www.port80software.com/products/httpzip/compresscheck

On 02/02/07, Michael Sims <jellicle at gmail.com> wrote:
> On February 2, 2007, Marcin Szkudlarek wrote:
>
> > 1. Is there a way to check in the browser if the page i'm currently
> > viewing was compressed?
>
> If you view the response headers of the page, you'll see something like:
>
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Encoding: gzip
> Transfer-Encoding: chunked
> Cache-Control: no-cache,no-store
> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:28:05 GMT
>
> The second line tells you (and the web browser) that the page is gzipped.
>
> > 2. Is there a way I can check out the size of the original web page
> > and the compressed one (which is actually send over the network) ?
>
> If you install the Web Developer extension for Firefox, there's a selection
> called View Document Size.  Here's a sample from that output:
>
> Documents (1 file)      3 kb (17 kb uncompressed)
> Images (6 files)        1 kb
> Objects (0 files)
> Scripts (1 file)        1 kb (18 kb uncompressed)
> Style Sheets (9 files)  31 kb
> Total   36 kb (67 kb uncompressed)
>
> Pretty handy, yes?
>
> Michael Sims
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Feb  2 11:06:48 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 11:06:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Daylight Savings Time Change
In-Reply-To: <006801c74637$595448f0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <006801c74637$595448f0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <b76252690702020806q13f58f6du4e3b6e829adad5c@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/1/07, Peter Sawczynec <ps at sun-code.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'll say sorry in advance if this was already discussed, but...
>
> The govt changed daylight savings time so that DST starts
> on the second Sunday in March (March 11, 2007) instead
> of the first Sunday in April, and ends on the first Sunday in
> November (November 4) instead of the last Sunday of October.
>
> Any conversation/perspectives on how this will work out with
> PHP and date functions?
>

My guess, and it's just a guess, is that as updated timezone data
packages are rolled out to servers, any times that were stored as
integer timestamps are going to be an hour off during those periods.

Times stored as strings shouldn't be affected.

FWIW, I'm hearing from the admins at work that this is going to cause
major havoc on the desktop side, especially with Outlook events. I
keep waiting for this story to break on CNN because it seems to be
catching everyone by surprise, but I guess it won't be on the radar
until March.


-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From tom at supertom.com  Fri Feb  2 11:12:58 2007
From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 11:12:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend remote debugger with PHP5.2
In-Reply-To: <1030d3970702020715p3847785br99f2ad2f71b7e97f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001001c7462a$947058f0$12a8a8c0@HirschLaptop>
	<1030d3970702020715p3847785br99f2ad2f71b7e97f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <117286890702020812r68d74d26q395f701d1c440e7d@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/2/07, Bill Gerneglia <bgerneglia at gmail.com> wrote:
> I could not get the remote debugger to work with PHP version 4.3.11 - i quit
> out of frustration..
>

Things to look at:
1. phpinfo - does it show up?  If not, extension isn't loaded
2. php.ini - do you have a zend configuration stanza?  Is your network
allowed, etc?
3. Do you have a firewall?  You have to allow inbound connections on
port 10000 (I believe) to your machine.
4. For 4.3.10, you needed Zend Optimizer 2.5.7 (had to look back in my
wiki for this!) - not sure about about 4.3.11

Tom
http://www.liphp.org


From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Fri Feb  2 17:52:42 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:52:42 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Test Message
Message-ID: <1170456763.5019.34.camel@proberts>

Sorry all, been having problems sending to the list, just trying to
resolve with a test message. 

Thanks, 
-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Sat Feb  3 00:26:06 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 05:26:06 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Framework
Message-ID: <1170480367.5019.46.camel@proberts>

Has anyone been working with the Zend Framework at all? 


-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Sat Feb  3 17:23:14 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 14:23:14 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Framework
In-Reply-To: <1170480367.5019.46.camel@proberts>
References: <1170480367.5019.46.camel@proberts>
Message-ID: <10908-59721@sneakemail.com>

Phillip B. Roberts philliproberts-at-developersshack.com |nyphp 
dev/internal group use| wrote:

> Has anyone been working with the Zend Framework at all?
>
Yes.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From jakob.buchgraber at googlemail.com  Sat Feb  3 17:38:01 2007
From: jakob.buchgraber at googlemail.com (Jakob Buchgraber)
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 23:38:01 +0100
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Framework
In-Reply-To: <10908-59721@sneakemail.com>
References: <1170480367.5019.46.camel@proberts> <10908-59721@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <45C50EC9.4090504@gmail.com>

Me too


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Sat Feb  3 17:24:41 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 14:24:41 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Studio PHP5.2 support
In-Reply-To: <C1E89CCE.2B7%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C1E89CCE.2B7%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <10654-25587@sneakemail.com>

Cliff Hirsch cliff-at-pinestream.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> unless you are so gifted that you write bug-free code. Or can 
> single-step in your gray matter.

Hahah.

Neither. But before there was a PHP debugger that worked, there were 
scripts, right? I wonder how we did that?


From mwithington at PLMresearch.com  Sat Feb  3 17:50:40 2007
From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington)
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 17:50:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Studio PHP5.2 support
In-Reply-To: <10654-25587@sneakemail.com>
References: <C1E89CCE.2B7%cliff@pinestream.com> <10654-25587@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <491198290702031450o5e751831x2029708c78616885@mail.gmail.com>

Answer:  A whole lot slower ;-)

On 2/3/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
> Cliff Hirsch cliff-at-pinestream.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
>
> > unless you are so gifted that you write bug-free code. Or can
> > single-step in your gray matter.
>
> Hahah.
>
> Neither. But before there was a PHP debugger that worked, there were
> scripts, right? I wonder how we did that?
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
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From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Sat Feb  3 20:56:06 2007
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 09:56:06 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] variable scope question
Message-ID: <45C53D36.3030108@qualityadvantages.com>

Hello everyone,

I have a question about variable scope that I probably should know the 
answer to but it is a puzzle at the moment.

I have a packaged script that I work on that has this problem but I can 
simplify the question with an example.

I have a scipt routine that collects a user IP address from  
$_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']. If I have $ip = $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']; 
defined in the script, no problem but if I put the definition in an 
include statement like "require_once" it has no value but if I put the 
definition in a function in the include file and call the function, it 
contains the user IP address. By the way, the mod I am doing is for 
tracking badguys activity on a client site so I can see what parts of 
the script they are trying to access. I am collecting a lot more than 
just the ip address but this is a simplified example.

In the case I am working on, the definitions are in a header file and 
the IP collector is at the top of all the pages of the script. I have 
other "hardcoded" values defined in the header file that work?

Any ideas on what my problem is? I have created a function in the header 
file as a work around but I am wondering why the simple definition does 
not get parsed or why some variables work and others do not?

If the answer is obvious and I just don't get it, I hope someone can 
enlighten me. Thanks in advance.

mikesz





From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Sun Feb  4 15:42:41 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 15:42:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Framework
In-Reply-To: <10908-59721@sneakemail.com>
References: <1170480367.5019.46.camel@proberts> <10908-59721@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <45C64541.1030901@beaffinitive.com>

inforequest wrote:
> Phillip B. Roberts philliproberts-at-developersshack.com |nyphp 
> dev/internal group use| wrote:
>
>> Has anyone been working with the Zend Framework at all?
>>
> Yes.
>
+1.  I read a couple of the ZF mailing lists too.  I think the framework 
is great... and things are coming together pretty quickly with it.  It 
will hit 1.0 in the spring and by then
will have a lot of great components.  It's pretty easy to use just parts 
of the framework too if you want to try some components but still want 
to use another framework for other parts like MVC or ORM patterns.


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Feb  4 16:09:15 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 13:09:15 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Framework
In-Reply-To: <45C64541.1030901@beaffinitive.com>
References: <1170480367.5019.46.camel@proberts> <10908-59721@sneakemail.com>
	<45C64541.1030901@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <17802-60449@sneakemail.com>

Rob Marscher rmarscher-at-beaffinitive.com |nyphp dev/internal group 
use| wrote:

> inforequest wrote:
>
>> Phillip B. Roberts philliproberts-at-developersshack.com |nyphp 
>> dev/internal group use| wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone been working with the Zend Framework at all?
>>>
>> Yes.
>>
> +1.  I read a couple of the ZF mailing lists too.  I think the 
> framework is great... and things are coming together pretty quickly 
> with it.  It will hit 1.0 in the spring and by then
> will have a lot of great components.  It's pretty easy to use just 
> parts of the framework too if you want to try some components but 
> still want to use another framework for other parts like MVC or ORM 
> patterns. 

I'm not a hard-core PHP programmer but I like the framework because it 
seems to be more of an extension to PHP than an all-or-nothing 
"development system". Maybe I have commitment issues, but each of the 
third-party frameworks seem to me to be "do it our way or don't use our 
framework" which I don't like.  Zend fw doesn't feel that way.

For basic web site needs (typical MVC stuff)  it's more than enough and 
a very powerful extension of PHP, without much headache 9for me, so 
far). Of course when you adopt someone's partially grown child, you will 
have to spend some quality time getting to know one another if you want 
to enjoy a good relationship.



From jwind at gmx.de  Sun Feb  4 19:34:18 2007
From: jwind at gmx.de (=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Wind?=)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:34:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] variable scope question
In-Reply-To: <45C53D36.3030108@qualityadvantages.com>
References: <45C53D36.3030108@qualityadvantages.com>
Message-ID: <8799459.post@talk.nabble.com>




mikesz at qualityadvantages.com wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have a question about variable scope that I probably should know the 
> answer to but it is a puzzle at the moment.
> 
> I have a packaged script that I work on that has this problem but I can 
> simplify the question with an example.
> 
> I have a scipt routine that collects a user IP address from  
> $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']. If I have $ip = $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']; 
> defined in the script, no problem but if I put the definition in an 
> include statement like "require_once" it has no value but if I put the 
> definition in a function in the include file and call the function, it 
> contains the user IP address. By the way, the mod I am doing is for 
> tracking badguys activity on a client site so I can see what parts of 
> the script they are trying to access. I am collecting a lot more than 
> just the ip address but this is a simplified example.
> 
> In the case I am working on, the definitions are in a header file and 
> the IP collector is at the top of all the pages of the script. I have 
> other "hardcoded" values defined in the header file that work?
> 
> Any ideas on what my problem is? I have created a function in the header 
> file as a work around but I am wondering why the simple definition does 
> not get parsed or why some variables work and others do not?
> 
> If the answer is obvious and I just don't get it, I hope someone can 
> enlighten me. Thanks in advance.
> 
> mikesz
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 
why don't just use $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'] everywhere in your script?
it's a "superglobal".
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/variable-scope-question-tf3168397.html#a8799459
Sent from the NYPHP-Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From tommyo at gmail.com  Sun Feb  4 20:08:10 2007
From: tommyo at gmail.com (Thomas O'Neill)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:08:10 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Da Bears In Lights!
Message-ID: <d0cb92620702041708r1fede7a7l259f81c4f1d17312@mail.gmail.com>

Check out chicago!  All lit up with Da Bears in the skyscrapers!

http://digg.com/football/Chicago_Lit_Up_for_Da_Bears



-- 
Tom O'Neill
tommyo at gmail.com


From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Sun Feb  4 22:12:37 2007
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 11:12:37 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] variable scope question
In-Reply-To: <8799459.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <45C53D36.3030108@qualityadvantages.com>
	<8799459.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <45C6A0A5.9030304@qualityadvantages.com>

J?rgen Wind wrote:

>
>mikesz at qualityadvantages.com wrote:
>  
>
>>Hello everyone,
>>
>>I have a question about variable scope that I probably should know the 
>>answer to but it is a puzzle at the moment.
>>
>>I have a packaged script that I work on that has this problem but I can 
>>simplify the question with an example.
>>
>>I have a scipt routine that collects a user IP address from  
>>$_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']. If I have $ip = $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']; 
>>defined in the script, no problem but if I put the definition in an 
>>include statement like "require_once" it has no value but if I put the 
>>definition in a function in the include file and call the function, it 
>>contains the user IP address. By the way, the mod I am doing is for 
>>tracking badguys activity on a client site so I can see what parts of 
>>the script they are trying to access. I am collecting a lot more than 
>>just the ip address but this is a simplified example.
>>
>>In the case I am working on, the definitions are in a header file and 
>>the IP collector is at the top of all the pages of the script. I have 
>>other "hardcoded" values defined in the header file that work?
>>
>>Any ideas on what my problem is? I have created a function in the header 
>>file as a work around but I am wondering why the simple definition does 
>>not get parsed or why some variables work and others do not?
>>
>>If the answer is obvious and I just don't get it, I hope someone can 
>>enlighten me. Thanks in advance.
>>
>>mikesz
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>>NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>>Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>why don't just use $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'] everywhere in your script?
>it's a "superglobal".
>  
>
thanks for the reply, that would not be too practical as it would need 
to be distributed over 50 pages (its a packaged app that I am doing some 
integration on) here is the code that would need to be included on each 
page:

$visitor_host = @getHostByAddr( $ip );
$ip                                = $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'];
$referer               = $_SERVER['HTTP_REFERER'];       // URL of 
calling page
$refer                = $_SERVER['HTTP_REFERER'];       // URL of 
calling page
$rhost                   = $_SERVER['REMOTE_HOST'];           // host 
name of visitor
$ruser                   = $_SERVER['REMOTE_USER'];        // Remote 
Username if available
$user                        = $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'];             
//current user
$user_agent             = $_SERVER['HTTP_USER_AGENT'];
$uri                             = $_SERVER['REQUEST_URI'];
$user                         = $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'];
$proxyIP                     = $_SERVER['HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR'];
$proxyhost                = $_SERVER['HTTP_X_FORWARDED_HOST'];
$proxyserver            = $_SERVER['HTTP_X_FORWARDED_SERVER'];
$request_method     = $_SERVER['REQUEST_METHOD'];
$server_protocol     = $_SERVER['SERVER_PROTOCOL'];
$url                          = $_SERVER['HTTP_HOST']. $_SERVER[PHP_SELF];

$sql  =  "INSERT INTO MyTracker VALUES('',now(), 
'$ip','$referer','$user_agent','$rhost','$ruser','$ruri','$request_method','$server_protocol','$proxyIP','$proxyserver','$proxyhost','$url', 
'$visitor_host');";

$results  =  mysql_query ( $sql);

as you can see, that would get pretty unwieldy in a short time, 
expecially if I needed to change something in this call...

regards, mikesz


From lists at zaunere.com  Sun Feb  4 22:21:17 2007
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:21:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Slides from Tuesday's meeting are now online
In-Reply-To: <20070125230128.1cyjdcztwggowcww@technest.org>
References: <20070125230128.1cyjdcztwggowcww@technest.org>
Message-ID: <023a01c748d4$b338cfe0$6d0aa8c0@MZ>


Thanks Chuck... the archives have been updated.

H


Chuck Hagenbuch wrote:
> Hi folks-
> 
> I've finally gotten a chance to put the slides from Tuesday's talk
> online (after making some changes to avoid assuming demos on
> localhost). They are located here:
> 
> http://www.horde.org/papers/nyphp-2007-01/
> 
> (http://www.horde.org/papers/ is the general Horde presentations list)
> 
> If NYPHP wants to have a copy instead of just a link, feel free to
> grab them from http://cvs.horde.org/hordeweb/papers/nyphp-2007-01 or
> http://cvs.horde.org/presentations/.
> 
> ALSO: I talked to a few people about the Property Tracker code (the
> real estate/houses demo). It currently needs a few tweaks because of
> changes to the RDO helpers that it was built on. I'll clean those up
> sometime soon and post a new version; I don't want to spam the list
> with that, but if you are interested in the updated code, please send
> me a private reply and I will make sure to send you an email when the
> fixed code is online.
> 
> Thanks for having me down from Boston,
> -chuck
> 
> --
> "we are plastered to the windshield of the bus that is time." - Chris
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Mon Feb  5 08:09:16 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 13:09:16 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Framework
In-Reply-To: <10908-59721@sneakemail.com>
References: <1170480367.5019.46.camel@proberts> <10908-59721@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <1170680957.5019.59.camel@proberts>

I am building my first application in ZFW, I had previously tried
working with Cake, Symphony and web.framework but found all of them
restrictive. I am loving the ZFW and have found that the source is
probably the best documentation. I will be excited to see 1.0. I will be
in Boston at the end of the month to see Matthew Weier O'Phinney, a ZFW
Developer speak about the framework. Should be interesting! 

I was mainly just trying to guage how many other people are using it, I
haven't found any great places to ask questions about ZFW yet, has
anyone else? 

On Sat, 2007-02-03 at 14:23 -0800, inforequest wrote:

> Phillip B. Roberts philliproberts-at-developersshack.com |nyphp 
> dev/internal group use| wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone been working with the Zend Framework at all?
> >
> Yes.
> 

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From kenneth at ylayali.net  Mon Feb  5 08:51:33 2007
From: kenneth at ylayali.net (Kenneth Dombrowski)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:51:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Framework
In-Reply-To: <1170680957.5019.59.camel@proberts>
References: <1170480367.5019.46.camel@proberts> <10908-59721@sneakemail.com>
	<1170680957.5019.59.camel@proberts>
Message-ID: <20070205135133.GQ10895@ylayali.net>

On 07-02-05 13:09 +0000, Phillip B. Roberts wrote:
> I am building my first application in ZFW, I had previously tried
> working with Cake, Symphony and web.framework but found all of them
> restrictive. I am loving the ZFW and have found that the source is
> probably the best documentation. I will be excited to see 1.0. I will be
> in Boston at the end of the month to see Matthew Weier O'Phinney, a ZFW
> Developer speak about the framework. Should be interesting! 

I've just begun working with it too, can you provide us with more info
about the O'Phinney talk? 

Thanks,
Kenneth



From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Mon Feb  5 09:19:18 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:19:18 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Framework
In-Reply-To: <20070205135133.GQ10895@ylayali.net>
References: <1170480367.5019.46.camel@proberts> <10908-59721@sneakemail.com>
	<1170680957.5019.59.camel@proberts>
	<20070205135133.GQ10895@ylayali.net>
Message-ID: <1170685159.5019.66.camel@proberts>

Certainly - It is part of the Boston PHP User Group events this month,
link to information regarding the event: 

http://www.bostonphp.org/component/option,com_gigcal/task,details/gigcal_gigs_id,22/

It is the Feb. 28th event, which I think was originally scheduled for
the 5th of October, according to my buddy who is a member in Boston it
was rescheduled for some reason. It looks like someone from Horde will
be presenting as well, with each framework they will be developing a
CRUD catalog app that will generate multiple formats (xhtml, xml etc.). 

Should be a good one. My buddy turned me onto the Boston PHP UG, which
is what prompted me to find one closer to me that had a decent
membership, which is how I found NYPHP :) (NYC = 3 hrs from me, Boston =
7-8hrs from me [depending on traffic on the GW Bridge]) 

On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 08:51 -0500, Kenneth Dombrowski wrote:

> On 07-02-05 13:09 +0000, Phillip B. Roberts wrote:
> > I am building my first application in ZFW, I had previously tried
> > working with Cake, Symphony and web.framework but found all of them
> > restrictive. I am loving the ZFW and have found that the source is
> > probably the best documentation. I will be excited to see 1.0. I will be
> > in Boston at the end of the month to see Matthew Weier O'Phinney, a ZFW
> > Developer speak about the framework. Should be interesting! 
> 
> I've just begun working with it too, can you provide us with more info
> about the O'Phinney talk? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Kenneth
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From nate at cakephp.org  Mon Feb  5 09:42:58 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:42:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Da Bears In Lights!
In-Reply-To: <20070205141359.8BB4910A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070205141359.8BB4910A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <76CDF50F-CDF0-4450-8711-CA389F7825E7@cakephp.org>

Don't let the Boston Police Department see that...

> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:08:10 -0600
> From: "Thomas O'Neill" <tommyo at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] Da Bears In Lights!
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<d0cb92620702041708r1fede7a7l259f81c4f1d17312 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Check out chicago!  All lit up with Da Bears in the skyscrapers!
>
> http://digg.com/football/Chicago_Lit_Up_for_Da_Bears
>
>
>
> -- 
> Tom O'Neill
> tommyo at gmail.com



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Mon Feb  5 14:45:32 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:45:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FirePHP :-)
Message-ID: <B0F13DF9-C220-4BAF-8C10-8A868C91A032@jonbaer.com>

For those of us in love w/ Firebug ...

http://www.firephp.org/

Visualize and control your PHP backend from Firefox!

FirePHP allows you to take a deeper look at all the work your PHP  
code does to generate that page you are currently looking at in your  
Firefox browser.

Just install the FirePHP Firefox extension, PHP PEAR package and add  
a few lines of code to your PHP application to get started. You will  
see a "FirePHP" tab in your Firebug extension to bring your PHP  
backend logic to your fingertips!

A great presentation on Firebug is here ( ~129MB) http:// 
us.dl1.yimg.com/download.yahoo.com/dl/ydn/yui/theater/hewitt-firebug.mp4

- Jon


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Mon Feb  5 15:02:10 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 15:02:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FirePHP :-)
In-Reply-To: <B0F13DF9-C220-4BAF-8C10-8A868C91A032@jonbaer.com>
References: <B0F13DF9-C220-4BAF-8C10-8A868C91A032@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690702051202hb5bb209mdc8ded5e9c55219@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/07, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
> For those of us in love w/ Firebug ...
>
> http://www.firephp.org/
>
> Visualize and control your PHP backend from Firefox!

That marketing tagline might be a bit too ambitious, as FirePHP is
really just a back-channel for per-request debugging information.

Nevertheless, it's something new and potentially *very* useful,
especially for situations where you use PHP to generate non-html
output (such as dynamic images).

Nice find, does anyone here know Christoph Dorn?

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From jwind at gmx.de  Mon Feb  5 15:10:28 2007
From: jwind at gmx.de (=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Wind?=)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:10:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FirePHP :-)
In-Reply-To: <B0F13DF9-C220-4BAF-8C10-8A868C91A032@jonbaer.com>
References: <B0F13DF9-C220-4BAF-8C10-8A868C91A032@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <8813907.post@talk.nabble.com>




Jon Baer-2 wrote:
> 
> For those of us in love w/ Firebug ...
> 
> http://www.firephp.org/
> 
> Visualize and control your PHP backend from Firefox!
> 
> FirePHP allows you to take a deeper look at all the work your PHP  
> code does to generate that page you are currently looking at in your  
> Firefox browser.
> 
> Just install the FirePHP Firefox extension, PHP PEAR package and add  
> a few lines of code to your PHP application to get started. You will  
> see a "FirePHP" tab in your Firebug extension to bring your PHP  
> backend logic to your fingertips!
> 
> A great presentation on Firebug is here ( ~129MB) http:// 
> us.dl1.yimg.com/download.yahoo.com/dl/ydn/yui/theater/hewitt-firebug.mp4
> 
> - Jon
> 
> 
> 
if only the download links would work with Firefox...
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/FirePHP-%3A-%29-tf3176430.html#a8813907
Sent from the NYPHP-Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Mon Feb  5 15:33:59 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 15:33:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FirePHP :-)
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702051202hb5bb209mdc8ded5e9c55219@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B0F13DF9-C220-4BAF-8C10-8A868C91A032@jonbaer.com>
	<b76252690702051202hb5bb209mdc8ded5e9c55219@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <803E510B-A82D-4D22-B552-5CB3D3B0904B@jonbaer.com>

Id think you'd be able to back-channel anything from within in the  
browser, while watching the demo I heard the extensions within the  
extension bit and check them both out (all open-source) ...

svn co http://fbug.googlecode.com/svn/trunk
svn co http://firephp.googlecode.com/svn/trunk

So you can really sneak in small debugging tools on your own.  One  
thing Id love to see is generated EXPLAIN output from MySQL traces  
for a page somehow.

- Jon

On Feb 5, 2007, at 3:02 PM, csnyder wrote:

> On 2/5/07, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
>> For those of us in love w/ Firebug ...
>>
>> http://www.firephp.org/
>>
>> Visualize and control your PHP backend from Firefox!
>
> That marketing tagline might be a bit too ambitious, as FirePHP is
> really just a back-channel for per-request debugging information.
>
> Nevertheless, it's something new and potentially *very* useful,
> especially for situations where you use PHP to generate non-html
> output (such as dynamic images).
>
> Nice find, does anyone here know Christoph Dorn?
>
> -- 
> Chris Snyder
> http://chxo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From corey at domanistudios.com  Mon Feb  5 15:44:08 2007
From: corey at domanistudios.com (Corey Szopinski)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 15:44:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FirePHP :-)
In-Reply-To: <803E510B-A82D-4D22-B552-5CB3D3B0904B@jonbaer.com>
References: <B0F13DF9-C220-4BAF-8C10-8A868C91A032@jonbaer.com>
	<b76252690702051202hb5bb209mdc8ded5e9c55219@mail.gmail.com>
	<803E510B-A82D-4D22-B552-5CB3D3B0904B@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <5044C5BB-217C-455A-ABE7-DB6B1323258A@domanistudios.com>

Charles is a great tool for watching traffic also.

We use it to keep track of Flash or Ajax talking to the backend PHP  
via xml, name/value, or amf formats.

http://www.xk72.com/charles/

-c



On Feb 5, 2007, at 3:33 PM, Jon Baer wrote:

> Id think you'd be able to back-channel anything from within in the  
> browser, while watching the demo I heard the extensions within the  
> extension bit and check them both out (all open-source) ...
>
> svn co http://fbug.googlecode.com/svn/trunk
> svn co http://firephp.googlecode.com/svn/trunk
>
> So you can really sneak in small debugging tools on your own.  One  
> thing Id love to see is generated EXPLAIN output from MySQL traces  
> for a page somehow.
>
> - Jon

Corey Szopinski
Director of Technology

DOMANI STUDIOS
corey at domanistudios.com
55 Washington St. Suite 822
Brooklyn, NY 11201
718-797-4470  x116




From rotsen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  5 15:52:25 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:52:25 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FirePHP :-)
In-Reply-To: <8813907.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <B0F13DF9-C220-4BAF-8C10-8A868C91A032@jonbaer.com>
	<8813907.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60702051252u3803814fo143b3eaac7878580@mail.gmail.com>

It worked for me using firefox  :-)

On 2/5/07, J?rgen Wind <jwind at gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Jon Baer-2 wrote:
> >
> > For those of us in love w/ Firebug ...
> >
> > http://www.firephp.org/
> >
> > Visualize and control your PHP backend from Firefox!
> >
> > FirePHP allows you to take a deeper look at all the work your PHP
> > code does to generate that page you are currently looking at in your
> > Firefox browser.
> >
> > Just install the FirePHP Firefox extension, PHP PEAR package and add
> > a few lines of code to your PHP application to get started. You will
> > see a "FirePHP" tab in your Firebug extension to bring your PHP
> > backend logic to your fingertips!
> >
> > A great presentation on Firebug is here ( ~129MB) http://
> > us.dl1.yimg.com/download.yahoo.com/dl/ydn/yui/theater/hewitt-firebug.mp4
> >
> > - Jon
> >
> >
> >
> if only the download links would work with Firefox...
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/FirePHP-%3A-%29-tf3176430.html#a8813907
> Sent from the NYPHP-Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From anoland at indigente.net  Tue Feb  6 18:39:47 2007
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:39:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I have a quick (and probably silly) question. Is there performance
difference between the following two snippets. Does it make a
difference if there are hundreds+ of lines?

<?php
$content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
$content .= "another line";
$content .= "yet another";
echo $content;
?>

vs.

<?php
echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
echo "another line";
echo "yet another";
?>


From ben at projectskyline.com  Tue Feb  6 18:47:58 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:47:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004801c74a49$3b57db30$6501a8c0@gamebox>

Well,

My guess (no facts here) would be the first is slower.

First the "'s need to be checked for $variables, it would be quicker to put 
'.
And then an operation of copying needs to be done. Allocation as well on the 
c side
for the new, larger variable.

Then the display.

The second snippet displays the lines without the additional operation of 
allocation/concatenation.

Who knows though..I'd like a more fact based explanation.

- Ben
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Noland" <anoland at indigente.net>
To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 6:39 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory


> Hi, I have a quick (and probably silly) question. Is there performance
> difference between the following two snippets. Does it make a
> difference if there are hundreds+ of lines?
>
> <?php
> $content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
> $content .= "another line";
> $content .= "yet another";
> echo $content;
> ?>
>
> vs.
>
> <?php
> echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
> echo "another line";
> echo "yet another";
> ?>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 



From ntang at communityconnect.com  Tue Feb  6 18:50:42 2007
From: ntang at communityconnect.com (Nicholas Tang)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:50:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <004801c74a49$3b57db30$6501a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <EE702CA684057843958BF6CE882E910105C2817E@cci019.hq.communityconnect.com>

I'd agree, but I'd also say:

1.) Test, test, test... It'll take 5 minutes to run a quick benchmark
and find out.

2.) My guess is that neither is going to have a significant performance
impact, and that it's probably not worth worrying about in the big
picture.  Look for low-hanging fruit first, if you're optimizing your
app.  Now, on the other hand, if the real-world example is concatenating
a million different lines of text before printing, that could add up...

Nicholas 

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline)
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 6:48 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory

Well,

My guess (no facts here) would be the first is slower.

First the "'s need to be checked for $variables, it would be quicker to
put '.
And then an operation of copying needs to be done. Allocation as well on
the c side for the new, larger variable.

Then the display.

The second snippet displays the lines without the additional operation
of allocation/concatenation.

Who knows though..I'd like a more fact based explanation.

- Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Noland" <anoland at indigente.net>
To: <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 6:39 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory


> Hi, I have a quick (and probably silly) question. Is there performance
> difference between the following two snippets. Does it make a
> difference if there are hundreds+ of lines?
>
> <?php
> $content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
> $content .= "another line";
> $content .= "yet another";
> echo $content;
> ?>
>
> vs.
>
> <?php
> echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
> echo "another line";
> echo "yet another";
> ?>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

!DSPAM:3343,45c913c833191619412130!




From ken at secdat.com  Tue Feb  6 19:35:21 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:35:21 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45C91EC9.2070102@secdat.com>

Adrian Noland wrote:
> Hi, I have a quick (and probably silly) question. Is there performance
> difference between the following two snippets. Does it make a
> difference if there are hundreds+ of lines?

I can offer a few rules of thumb from experience.

First, in any situation where there is disk or db access, you can assume 
that the disk access is far far more expensive than the in-memory 
operations like string assignment.  This difference is so staggering 
that all optimization must go into disk reads first.  No queries inside 
of loops, stuff like that.

Now, that being said, and assuming perfect optimization of disk reads, 
what about the snippets?  Well it would probably be nigh-on impossible 
to determine a difference in the snippets as written, but one telltale 
is that the first snippet is handling each string twice, first in the 
assignment, then in the output.  If PHP copies a string during string 
appends, then the first line is actually being handled 4 times!  This 
means we would reject it, because if you got in the habit of doing that, 
you may not notice if one day you start building strings out of much 
larger pieces, like file fragments, or big db text fields, and suddenly 
instead of 100 bytes its 100k bytes, and then wham, you do have a problem.


>
> <?php
> $content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
> $content .= "another line";
> $content .= "yet another";
> echo $content;
> ?>
>
> vs.
>
> <?php
> echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
> echo "another line";
> echo "yet another";
> ?>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From urb at e-government.com  Tue Feb  6 21:12:14 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:12:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>

I did a performance test on just this type of thing and there was no
discernable difference. Why not do the following which makes the
code much easier to follow and modify

$Content=<<<Content
this is the start of a bunch of lines.
another line,
yet another.
Content;

echo $Content;

It's called a "here document" structure and can include variables.

One note of caution. There can be no spaces at the end of either the
first or second "Content" and the last one must begin in column one.

Urb

><?php



>?>
>
>vs.
>
><?php
>echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>echo "another line";
>echo "yet another";
>?>
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>




From paul at devonianfarm.com  Tue Feb  6 22:01:45 2007
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul Houle)
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 22:01:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>

Urb LeJeune wrote:
>
> It's called a "here document" structure and can include variables.
>
> One note of caution. There can be no spaces at the end of either the
> first or second "Content" and the last one must begin in column one.
>
    That's one reason I don't like here variables.  People mash them up 
and I have to fix them.

    When applicable,  I really like

?>
Complicated HTML,  like maybe a <table></table>,  and use something like 
<? q($var) ?> to
insert a variable
<?php




From ken at secdat.com  Tue Feb  6 22:06:03 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 22:06:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>
	<45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>
Message-ID: <45C9421B.6070006@secdat.com>

Paul Houle wrote:
> Urb LeJeune wrote:
>>
>> It's called a "here document" structure and can include variables.
>>
>> One note of caution. There can be no spaces at the end of either the
>> first or second "Content" and the last one must begin in column one.
>>
>    That's one reason I don't like here variables.  People mash them up 
> and I have to fix them.
>
>    When applicable,  I really like
>
> ?>
> Complicated HTML,  like maybe a <table></table>,  and use something 
> like <? q($var) ?> to
> insert a variable
> <?php

Exactly.  Much easier to deal with something that is almost completely 
HTML, or almost completely PHP.

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From momophp at hotmail.com  Tue Feb  6 22:33:51 2007
From: momophp at hotmail.com (Mo Mo)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 11:33:51 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] How many PHPers use of PHP5 ?
Message-ID: <BAY7-F6FB5580F5FEE462C45DD4A79E0@phx.gbl>

At first I am  using PHP4 for my project,Because Many ISPs doesn't support 
PHP5 in China,Do you using PHP5 and what shall I do ?
Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
??????????????? MSN Hotmail?  http://www.hotmail.com  



From xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com  Tue Feb  6 22:39:03 2007
From: xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com (Nazmul Hassan)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 22:39:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] How many PHPers use of PHP5 ?
In-Reply-To: <BAY7-F6FB5580F5FEE462C45DD4A79E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY7-F6FB5580F5FEE462C45DD4A79E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <b05cec1c0702061939v610be4c4w1226f7bdfb394afe@mail.gmail.com>

many ISPs don't support PHP5? what? that makes no sense.
you mean, many hosting providers aren't compatible with PHP 5 is what you
mean to say.

PHP 5 is basically a grow on, and more secure working of PHP 4. nothing that
would cause you to learn php all over again.

On 2/6/07, Mo Mo <momophp at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> At first I am  using PHP4 for my project,Because Many ISPs doesn't support
> PHP5 in China,Do you using PHP5 and what shall I do ?
> Thanks.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> ??????????????? MSN Hotmail?  http://www.hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
(?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)
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From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Tue Feb  6 22:40:08 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 22:40:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] How many PHPers use of PHP5 ?
In-Reply-To: <BAY7-F6FB5580F5FEE462C45DD4A79E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY7-F6FB5580F5FEE462C45DD4A79E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1170819608.5062.11.camel@proberts>

How important is it that you use an ISP in China? Do you have the
ability to use an ISP outside of China? Or would that affect load
times/bandwidth too much? 

On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 11:33 +0800, Mo Mo wrote:

> At first I am  using PHP4 for my project,Because Many ISPs doesn't support 
> PHP5 in China,Do you using PHP5 and what shall I do ?
> Thanks.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> ??????????????? MSN Hotmail?  http://www.hotmail.com  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From anthony at adcl.biz  Tue Feb  6 22:42:08 2007
From: anthony at adcl.biz (Anthony Papillion)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 21:42:08 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] How many PHPers use of PHP5 ?
References: <BAY7-F6FB5580F5FEE462C45DD4A79E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <008901c74a69$f24a0ff0$6501a8c0@ISIS>

I think the answer to your question largely depends on the type of applications you're developing and where your customers want you to go. We've stuck with PHP 4 for now but we are ramping up all of our developers on PHP5 because that is really where the future lies. Look at where you are and where you intend to go. Then, evaluate if PHP4 will get you there. If not, migrate.

Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
(918) 926-0139


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Mo Mo 
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org 
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:33 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] How many PHPers use of PHP5 ?


At first I am  using PHP4 for my project,Because Many ISPs doesn't support 
PHP5 in China,Do you using PHP5 and what shall I do ?
Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
??????????????? MSN Hotmail?  http://www.hotmail.com  

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
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From ramons at gmx.net  Wed Feb  7 06:37:16 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:37:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <45C9B9EC.3080603@gmx.net>

Urb LeJeune wrote:
> I did a performance test on just this type of thing and there was no
> discernable difference. Why not do the following which makes the
> code much easier to follow and modify
> 
> $Content=<<<Content
> this is the start of a bunch of lines.
> another line,
> yet another.
> Content;
> 
> echo $Content;
> 
> It's called a "here document" structure and can include variables.
> 
> One note of caution. There can be no spaces at the end of either the
> first or second "Content" and the last one must begin in column one.
> 
> Urb
> 

And I guess you cannot use
Content;
as part of the document. Do I assume right that it doesn't have to be 
"Content" as keyword, but can be "gnurfzz345"? The <<< should be the 
identifier for the whole thing.

This is good to know and looks so uncodely. ;)
David


From ken at secdat.com  Wed Feb  7 08:17:30 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:17:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FirePHP :-)
In-Reply-To: <B0F13DF9-C220-4BAF-8C10-8A868C91A032@jonbaer.com>
References: <B0F13DF9-C220-4BAF-8C10-8A868C91A032@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <45C9D16A.7030103@secdat.com>

Jon Baer wrote:
> For those of us in love w/ Firebug ...
>
> http://www.firephp.org/
>
> Visualize and control your PHP backend from Firefox!

This looks like one of those things that is going to get really big over 
time.  Might be cool to have a presentation.

>
> FirePHP allows you to take a deeper look at all the work your PHP code 
> does to generate that page you are currently looking at in your 
> Firefox browser.
>
> Just install the FirePHP Firefox extension, PHP PEAR package and add a 
> few lines of code to your PHP application to get started. You will see 
> a "FirePHP" tab in your Firebug extension to bring your PHP backend 
> logic to your fingertips!
>
> A great presentation on Firebug is here ( ~129MB) 
> http://us.dl1.yimg.com/download.yahoo.com/dl/ydn/yui/theater/hewitt-firebug.mp4 
>
>
> - Jon
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From lists at genoverly.net  Wed Feb  7 08:53:46 2007
From: lists at genoverly.net (michael)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:52:46 -0501
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Security From The Inside
Message-ID: <20070207085246.524aaa3a@dt.genoverly.com>

PHP Security From The Inside
Federico Biancuzzi, 2007-02-05

	Stefan Esser is the founder of both the Hardened-PHP Project
	and the PHP Security Response Team (which he recently left).
	Federico Biancuzzi discussed with him how the PHP Security
	Response Team works, why he resigned from it, what features he
	plans to add to his own hardening patch, the interaction
	between Apache and PHP, the upcoming "Month of PHP bugs"
	initiative, and common mistakes in the design of well-known
	applications such as WordPress.

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/432



Federico Biancuzzi (http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/1777)

-- 

michael


(this address does not accept public email)



From emm at scriptdigital.com  Wed Feb  7 10:21:15 2007
From: emm at scriptdigital.com (=?UTF-8?Q? Emmanuel_M._D=C3=A9carie ?=)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 10:21:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Trapping Errors with simplexml for Not Well-Formed XML
In-Reply-To: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
Message-ID: <4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>

Hello there,

I posted the following on my blog and wanted to check with the crowd  
if I didn't miss anything obvious here.
<http://lettre13.com/2007/02/07/trapping-errors-with-simplexml-for- 
not-well-formed-xml/>

Cheers
-Emmanuel


I discovered the hard way that in PHP5 there are no obvious ways to  
detect if some XML is well-formed, especially if you want to deploy  
on Unix/Windows platform and don?t want to access the shell directly.

Adding to this problem, I discovered also that the DOM and simplexml  
extensions can?t use the PHP5 exception handling to trap the errors  
when the XML is not well-formed. Using simplexml or the DOM  
extensions against not well-formed XML, the errors generated by these  
extensions are not trapped and are displayed immediately.

It?s possible to load with the DOM or the Tidy extensions not well- 
formed XML, and then repair it on the fly. But what if you need to  
detect not well-formed XML and provide a message stating the error?

Fortunately, after some research, I found that you could use the  
libxml functions (PHP 5.1 and over) to test XML well formedness and  
trap XML errors. So, I wiped out this little function called  
get_xml_object (see here (1) for the inspiration) that allow me to  
trap errors when simplexml is used to parse XML. The function is  
quite simple, by default, you provide a path to a XML file. If you  
want to use a string, just add another argument after the first  
parameter (it can?t be anything, but here?s I chose ?string?  
for clarity sakes). You can also replace the simplexml extension by  
the DOM extensions if you prefer this extension to parse XML.

The function get_xml_object will return an array that contains two  
keys, errors and xml. In this example, $result=get_xml_object($s,  
"string"), $result is an array. If there are no errors, $result 
['errors'] will be set to null. If everything is ok, $result['xml']  
will contains a simplexml object that you can then manipulate with  
the simplexml extension.

$s = "tag>hello world</tag>";
// $s = "<tag>hello world</tag>";

function get_xml_object ($xml, $xmlFormat=?file?) {

   $xml_object = null;
   $result = array (?errors? => null, ?xml? => null);

   libxml_use_internal_errors (true);
   $xmlFormat == ?file?  ? $xml_object = simplexml_load_file ($xml)
                         : $xml_object = simplexml_load_string ($xml);

   if (!$xml_object) {
      $errors = libxml_get_errors();
      foreach ($errors as $error) {
          $error_msg = ?Error: line: ? . $error->line
                     . ?: column: ? . $error->column . ?: ?
                     . $error->message . ?n?;
      }
      libxml_clear_errors();
      $result[?errors?] = $error_msg;
   } else {
     $result[?xml?] = $xml_object;
   }
   return $result;
}

$result = get_xml_object ($s, ?string?);

if ($result[?errors?]) {
   var_dump ($result[?errors?]);
} else {
   var_dump ($result[?xml?]);
}

(1) <http://ca3.php.net/manual/en/function.libxml-use-internal- 
errors.php>

From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Feb  7 11:05:32 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 11:05:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>

At 6:39 PM -0500 2/6/07, Adrian Noland wrote:
>Hi, I have a quick (and probably silly) question. Is there performance
>difference between the following two snippets. Does it make a
>difference if there are hundreds+ of lines?
>
><?php
>$content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>$content .= "another line";
>$content .= "yet another";
>echo $content;
>?>
>
>vs.
>
><?php
>echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>echo "another line";
>echo "yet another";
>?>

No offense meant, but when I have a question like that, I test it and 
find out. Why ask the list for something you could test yourself?

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Wed Feb  7 11:20:26 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 11:20:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>

How would one test something like this?  Testing for performance is  
something I would like to start doing but I don't know where/how to  
start.

-Aaron

On Feb 7, 2007, at 11:05 AM, tedd wrote:

> No offense meant, but when I have a question like that, I test it  
> and find out. Why ask the list for something you could test yourself?
>
> tedd
>
> At 6:39 PM -0500 2/6/07, Adrian Noland wrote:
>> Hi, I have a quick (and probably silly) question. Is there  
>> performance
>> difference between the following two snippets. Does it make a
>> difference if there are hundreds+ of lines?
>>
>> <?php
>> $content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>> $content .= "another line";
>> $content .= "yet another";
>> echo $content;
>> ?>
>>
>> vs.
>>
>> <?php
>> echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>> echo "another line";
>> echo "yet another";
>> ?>
>>


From ben at projectskyline.com  Wed Feb  7 11:24:20 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 11:24:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com><p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <00a701c74ad4$6c2c4030$6501a8c0@gamebox>

Hello Aaron, 

A quick google search yielded:

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum88/2567.htm

Which has some good php performance testing examples.

Best of luck! google is your friend, heh.

- Ben
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Fischer" <agfische at email.smith.edu>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory


> How would one test something like this?  Testing for performance is  
> something I would like to start doing but I don't know where/how to  
> start.
> 
> -Aaron
> 
> On Feb 7, 2007, at 11:05 AM, tedd wrote:
> 
>> No offense meant, but when I have a question like that, I test it  
>> and find out. Why ask the list for something you could test yourself?
>>
>> tedd
>>
>> At 6:39 PM -0500 2/6/07, Adrian Noland wrote:
>>> Hi, I have a quick (and probably silly) question. Is there  
>>> performance
>>> difference between the following two snippets. Does it make a
>>> difference if there are hundreds+ of lines?
>>>
>>> <?php
>>> $content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>>> $content .= "another line";
>>> $content .= "yet another";
>>> echo $content;
>>> ?>
>>>
>>> vs.
>>>
>>> <?php
>>> echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>>> echo "another line";
>>> echo "yet another";
>>> ?>
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Wed Feb  7 11:26:42 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 11:26:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <004801c74a49$3b57db30$6501a8c0@gamebox>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<004801c74a49$3b57db30$6501a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <45C9FDC2.2010606@beaffinitive.com>

Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) wrote:
> First the "'s need to be checked for $variables, it would be quicker 
> to put '.
> And then an operation of copying needs to be done. Allocation as well 
> on the c side
> for the new, larger variable.
I've looked into this kind of thing before and the performance 
differences are negligible... even for the single-quote vs. double-quote 
issue.  I thought there was something about it in the php 
documentation... but I searched for it this morning and couldn't find it.

-Rob


From support at dailytechnology.net  Wed Feb  7 11:31:05 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 11:31:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <45C9FEC9.7090402@dailytechnology.net>

The easiest way (I would think) is to run them both in a loop. Run 
option 1 1000 times, and record the start time and end time, output the 
total time it took to run it. Do the same with option 2 and compare the 
results.

- Brian

Aaron Fischer wrote:
> How would one test something like this?  Testing for performance is 
> something I would like to start doing but I don't know where/how to start.
> 
> -Aaron
> 
> On Feb 7, 2007, at 11:05 AM, tedd wrote:
> 
>> No offense meant, but when I have a question like that, I test it and 
>> find out. Why ask the list for something you could test yourself?
>>
>> tedd
>>
>> At 6:39 PM -0500 2/6/07, Adrian Noland wrote:
>>> Hi, I have a quick (and probably silly) question. Is there performance
>>> difference between the following two snippets. Does it make a
>>> difference if there are hundreds+ of lines?
>>>
>>> <?php
>>> $content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>>> $content .= "another line";
>>> $content .= "yet another";
>>> echo $content;
>>> ?>
>>>
>>> vs.
>>>
>>> <?php
>>> echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>>> echo "another line";
>>> echo "yet another";
>>> ?>
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 


From drydell at optonline.net  Wed Feb  7 11:35:18 2007
From: drydell at optonline.net (drydell at optonline.net)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 16:35:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <00a701c74ad4$6c2c4030$6501a8c0@gamebox>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
	<00a701c74ad4$6c2c4030$6501a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <e7de93465a68.45c9ffc6@optonline.net>

> > Best of luck! google is your friend, heh.> >Unless you've owned their stock for the past week or so? ;) 
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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Feb  7 11:35:44 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 11:35:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>
	<45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690702070835k293c6ff7pc01ab9a976393620@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/6/07, Paul Houle <paul at devonianfarm.com> wrote:
> Urb LeJeune wrote:
> >
> > It's called a "here document" structure and can include variables.
> >
> > One note of caution. There can be no spaces at the end of either the
> > first or second "Content" and the last one must begin in column one.
> >
>     That's one reason I don't like here variables.  People mash them up
> and I have to fix them.

Amen to that. One auto-indent on that file and everything is toast.

> use something like
> <? q($var) ?> to
> insert a variable

Depending on what q() does (output or return?) it might be more
natural to use <?=q($var)?>. Usually in the context of templates I
like to see functions returning so that output is completely under my
control.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From shiflett at php.net  Wed Feb  7 11:37:09 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 11:37:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <45CA0035.60807@php.net>

Aaron Fischer wrote:
> How would one test something like this?

Use an external tool like ab (bundled with Apache).

Micro-optimizations never matter in the real world anyway. See Amdahl's Law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_Law

Hope that helps.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Wed Feb  7 11:42:59 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 11:42:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <45C9FEC9.7090402@dailytechnology.net>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
	<45C9FEC9.7090402@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <CB434688-6555-4B3B-A3C5-B31A677EAC7F@email.smith.edu>

Thanks Brian, that's a helpful example to get me going.

-Aaron

On Feb 7, 2007, at 11:31 AM, Brian Dailey wrote:

> The easiest way (I would think) is to run them both in a loop. Run  
> option 1 1000 times, and record the start time and end time, output  
> the total time it took to run it. Do the same with option 2 and  
> compare the results.
>
> - Brian
>
> Aaron Fischer wrote:
>> How would one test something like this?  Testing for performance  
>> is something I would like to start doing but I don't know where/ 
>> how to start.
>> -Aaron
>> On Feb 7, 2007, at 11:05 AM, tedd wrote:
>>> No offense meant, but when I have a question like that, I test it  
>>> and find out. Why ask the list for something you could test  
>>> yourself?
>>>
>>> tedd
>>>
>>> At 6:39 PM -0500 2/6/07, Adrian Noland wrote:
>>>> Hi, I have a quick (and probably silly) question. Is there  
>>>> performance
>>>> difference between the following two snippets. Does it make a
>>>> difference if there are hundreds+ of lines?
>>>>
>>>> <?php
>>>> $content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>>>> $content .= "another line";
>>>> $content .= "yet another";
>>>> echo $content;
>>>> ?>
>>>>
>>>> vs.
>>>>
>>>> <?php
>>>> echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
>>>> echo "another line";
>>>> echo "yet another";
>>>> ?>
>>>>



From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Feb  7 11:44:28 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 11:44:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240809c1efaf3c76b4@[192.168.1.102]>

At 11:20 AM -0500 2/7/07, Aaron Fischer wrote:
>How would one test something like this?  Testing for performance is 
>something I would like to start doing but I don't know where/how to 
>start.
>
>-Aaron

-Aaron:

Ahhh, now that's a different critter.

First, your question deals with time, so a timer is in order. I use this:

<?php
$starttime = microtime();
$startarray = explode(" ", $starttime);
$starttime = $startarray[1] + $startarray[0];
?>

Then, I place here what I want to test, such as a loop to test your 
first snippet:

<?php
$content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
$content .= "another line";
$content .= "yet another";

for ($i = 1; $i <= 1000; $i++)
    {
    echo $content;
    }
?>

Then I finish the timing with:

<?php
$endtime = microtime();
$endarray = explode(" ", $endtime);
$endtime = $endarray[1] + $endarray[0];
$totaltime = $endtime - $starttime;
$totaltime = round($totaltime,5);
echo "<br/><br/><br/>This test took $totaltime seconds.";
?>

That will tell me how much time your first snippets took to run 1000 
times. Now, do the same with the second one and find out for yourself 
if there is any difference between the two. I suspect if there is any 
difference, it will be in your second set of code because it calls 
echo() more and thus takes more time to execute. In addition, I also 
suspect that you will have to increase the iterations to something 
greater than 1000 to see any noticeable difference in either, but 
that's a guess.

Have fun testing.

Cheers,

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From anoland at indigente.net  Wed Feb  7 12:02:07 2007
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:02:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702070835k293c6ff7pc01ab9a976393620@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>
	<45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>
	<b76252690702070835k293c6ff7pc01ab9a976393620@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930702070902ve94a985w909f9e908eee5781@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/7/07, tedd <tedd at sperling.com> wrote:
> No offense meant, but when I have a question like that, I test it and
> find out. Why ask the list for something you could test yourself?
>
> tedd
>
> --
> -------
> http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
>

Naw, fair enough.

I got ran some profiles with PECL APD but I don't have access to
pprofp. More precisely, Gentoo wants to downgrade me to PHP 5.0.5.

Would someone mind running these profile files through pprofp and
posting the results? I'd appreciate it.

http://indigente.net/profile_echo.profile.txt
http://indigente.net/profile_concat.profile.txt

The source files are
http://indigente.net/profile_echo.php.txt
http://indigente.net/profile_concat.php.txt

and a zip file
http://indigente.net/profiles.zip

N.B. I used rand() in an attempt to "bloat" the results, in the case
that there is a negligible difference between echo and concat, rand()
should exaggerate the results one way or another. In actuality, there
should be some kind of function call.  Thats the theory anyway.


From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Feb  7 12:08:26 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:08:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <45CA0035.60807@php.net>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
	<45CA0035.60807@php.net>
Message-ID: <p0624080cc1efb6f04507@[192.168.1.102]>

At 11:37 AM -0500 2/7/07, Chris Shiflett wrote:
>Micro-optimizations never matter in the real world anyway. See Amdahl's Law:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_Law
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>Chris


Chris:

Yes, my wife observes that when she tells me to hurry up in taking 
out the trash -- no matter how fast I do it, it doesn't seem to 
improve my overall performance with the other stuff I'm supposed to 
do.

Cheers,

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Wed Feb  7 12:38:23 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 12:38:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <p06240809c1efaf3c76b4@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@[192.168.1.102]>	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
	<p06240809c1efaf3c76b4@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <45CA0E8F.7080802@beaffinitive.com>

OK... I got interested enough to do a test myself.  I ran it a few times 
with 100,000 loops of concatenating vs. echoing.  The average result was 
about this:
Concatenation took 0.13881587982178. Multiple echoes took 0.074604988098145.
Concat mem usage was 1760704. Multiple echo mem usage was 901224.
58 milliseconds faster to do multiple echoes and uses about 839Kb less 
memory.  I'm not sure how reliable get_memory_usage() is for 
benchmarking memory.

By the way, in PHP5, you can just do:
$starttime = microtime(true);

But here's the source for my test that works in PHP4 and PHP5.  You can 
change the iterations number and replace 'some text' with another string 
to try out different scenarios.
Later,
Rob

<?php
// mimic php5's microtime(true)
function microtime_float()
{
   list($usec, $sec) = explode(" ", microtime());
   return ((float)$usec + (float)$sec);
}

$iterations = 100000;

// because I don't really want to see the output
ob_start();

if (function_exists('memory_get_usage')) {
  $memstart = memory_get_usage();
}
$start = microtime_float();
for ($i = 0; $i < $iterations; $i++)
{
  $content .= 'some text';
}
echo $content;
$end = microtime_float();
if (function_exists('memory_get_usage')) {
  $memend = memory_get_usage();
}
$test1time = $end - $start;
if ($memstart && $memend) {
  $test1mem = $memend - $memstart;
}

if (function_exists('memory_get_usage')) {
  $memstart = memory_get_usage();
}
$start = microtime_float();
for ($i = 0; $i < $iterations; $i++)
{
  echo 'some text';
}
$end = microtime_float();
if (function_exists('memory_get_usage')) {
  $memend = memory_get_usage();
}
$test2time = $end - $start;
if ($memstart && $memend) {
  $test2mem = $memend - $memstart;
}

// discard the output
ob_end_clean();

echo "Concatenation took $test1time. Multiple echoes took $test2time.\n";
if (isset($test1mem) && isset($test2mem)) {
  echo "Concat mem usage was $test1mem. Multiple echo mem usage was 
$test2mem.\n";
} else {
  echo "Unable to determine memory usage. Memory limit is not enabled.\n";
}
?>


From anoland at indigente.net  Wed Feb  7 14:33:41 2007
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 14:33:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <45CA0E8F.7080802@beaffinitive.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@192.168.1.102>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
	<p06240809c1efaf3c76b4@192.168.1.102>
	<45CA0E8F.7080802@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930702071133q4e80e27do8d44cf977e1768ee@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/7/07, Rob Marscher <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com> wrote:
> OK... I got interested enough to do a test myself.  I ran it a few times
> with 100,000 loops of concatenating vs. echoing.  The average result was
> about this:
> Concatenation took 0.13881587982178. Multiple echoes took 0.074604988098145.
> Concat mem usage was 1760704. Multiple echo mem usage was 901224.
> 58 milliseconds faster to do multiple echoes and uses about 839Kb less
> memory.  I'm not sure how reliable get_memory_usage() is for
> benchmarking memory.
>
> By the way, in PHP5, you can just do:
> $starttime = microtime(true);
>
> But here's the source for my test that works in PHP4 and PHP5.  You can
> change the iterations number and replace 'some text' with another string
> to try out different scenarios.
> Later,
> Rob

The loop is optimizing the results. Here is what I got when I replaced
them with 115K direct strings.

Without profiling
Concatenation took 4.47135686874. Multiple echoes took 5.18587899208.
Concatenation took 4.42481684685. Multiple echoes took 5.15758609772.
Concatenation took 4.42998504639. Multiple echoes took 5.14059782028.

with profiling enabled:
Concatenation took 7.02670788765. Multiple echoes took 7.44358682632
http://indigente.net/profile_microtime.profile.txt (7MB file)
http://indigente.net/profile_microtime.php.txt (10MB)

Obviously, I don't have any 10MB PHP files and this isn't a real world
example, but it is somewhat enlightening. I'm interested in
everybody's thoughts on this.


From anoland at indigente.net  Wed Feb  7 14:43:55 2007
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 14:43:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930702071133q4e80e27do8d44cf977e1768ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@192.168.1.102>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
	<p06240809c1efaf3c76b4@192.168.1.102>
	<45CA0E8F.7080802@beaffinitive.com>
	<1d8a0e930702071133q4e80e27do8d44cf977e1768ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930702071143r27a7fe61vf1998dea6f850e74@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/7/07, Adrian Noland <anoland at indigente.net> wrote:
> The loop is optimizing the results. Here is what I got when I replaced
> them with 115K direct strings.
>
> Without profiling
> Concatenation took 4.47135686874. Multiple echoes took 5.18587899208.
> Concatenation took 4.42481684685. Multiple echoes took 5.15758609772.
> Concatenation took 4.42998504639. Multiple echoes took 5.14059782028.
>
> with profiling enabled:
> Concatenation took 7.02670788765. Multiple echoes took 7.44358682632
> http://indigente.net/profile_microtime.profile.txt (7MB file)
> http://indigente.net/profile_microtime.php.txt (10MB)
>
> Obviously, I don't have any 10MB PHP files and this isn't a real world
> example, but it is somewhat enlightening. I'm interested in
> everybody's thoughts on this.
>

Responding to my own post...
I realized that rand() may be exaggerating again, so I ran Rob's test
again with rand() added to the output and got these for comparison.
Concatenation took 1.42593598366. Multiple echoes took 1.53872704506
Concatenation took 1.75097298622. Multiple echoes took 1.98070502281
Concatenation took 1.66252112389. Multiple echoes took 1.82230710983

I guess the answer is going to be "It depends" on what you are doing.


From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Feb  7 16:08:04 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:08:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930702071143r27a7fe61vf1998dea6f850e74@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@192.168.1.102>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
	<p06240809c1efaf3c76b4@192.168.1.102>	<45CA0E8F.7080802@beaffinitive.com>
	<1d8a0e930702071133q4e80e27do8d44cf977e1768ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d8a0e930702071143r27a7fe61vf1998dea6f850e74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c1efefa883d1@[192.168.1.102]>

>At 2:43 PM -0500 2/7/07, Adrian Noland wrote:
>
>I guess the answer is going to be "It depends" on what you are doing.

I guess that the real answer is -- it really doesn't matter. It's one 
of those geek things that we get involved in that others roll their 
eyes about.

Cheers,

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From codebowl at gmail.com  Wed Feb  7 19:39:57 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:39:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Removing www.
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys, what would i need to do in order to make all of the www. be
removed from my urls?

If soemone goes to www.josephcrawford.com/ i want it to just go to
josephcrawford.com/

Thanks,
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From darian at criticode.com  Wed Feb  7 19:51:45 2007
From: darian at criticode.com (Darian Anthony Patrick)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 19:51:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Removing www.
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45CA7421.3010206@criticode.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Joseph,

If I understand your question correctly, the following should work:
- - Create an A record for josephcrawford.com. (in DNS) that points to the
same IP address to which www.josephcrawford.com. resolves
- - Define a virtual host for josephcrawford.com that is essentially the
same as www.josephcrawford.com's virtual host definition
- - Update relevant links accordingly

HTH,

Darian


Joseph Crawford wrote:
> Hey guys, what would i need to do in order to make all of the www. be
> removed from my urls?
> 
> If soemone goes to www.josephcrawford.com/
> <http://www.josephcrawford.com/> i want it to just go to
> josephcrawford.com/ <http://josephcrawford.com/>
> 
> Thanks,
> -- 
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com <mailto:codebowl at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

- --
Darian Anthony Patrick
Principal, Application Development
Criticode LLC
(215) 240-6566 Office
(866) 789-2992 Facsimile
Web:   http://criticode.com
Email: darian at criticode.com
JID:   darian at jabber.criticode.net
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From rotsen at gmail.com  Wed Feb  7 19:52:33 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:52:33 -0800
Subject: Fwd: [nycphp-talk] Removing www.
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60702071652t7dc308d2nb1a26849234d1e9b@mail.gmail.com>

Joe,

That is hapenning already. at least with firefox :-)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com>
Date: Feb 7, 2007 4:39 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Removing www.
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>

Hey guys, what would i need to do in order to make all of the www. be
removed from my urls?

If soemone goes to www.josephcrawford.com/ i want it to just go to
josephcrawford.com/

Thanks,
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
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From shiflett at php.net  Wed Feb  7 20:16:57 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 20:16:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Removing www.
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45CA7A09.3040608@php.net>

Joseph Crawford wrote:
> Hey guys, what would i need to do in order to make all of the
> www. be removed from my urls?

>From http://no-www.org/:

RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^www\.josephcrawford\.com$ [NC]
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://josephcrawford.com/$1 [R=301,L]

Hope that helps.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From codebowl at gmail.com  Wed Feb  7 22:46:12 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 22:46:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Removing www.
In-Reply-To: <45CA7A09.3040608@php.net>
References: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45CA7A09.3040608@php.net>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702071946laf1c382if04d3b61bf97b722@mail.gmail.com>

Chris,

Thanks that did the trick.

On 2/7/07, Chris Shiflett <shiflett at php.net> wrote:
> Joseph Crawford wrote:
> > Hey guys, what would i need to do in order to make all of the
> > www. be removed from my urls?
>
> >From http://no-www.org/:
>
> RewriteEngine On
> RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^www\.josephcrawford\.com$ [NC]
> RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://josephcrawford.com/$1 [R=301,L]
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Shiflett
> http://shiflett.org/
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Feb  7 20:53:58 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 17:53:58 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Removing www.
In-Reply-To: <45CA7A09.3040608@php.net>
References: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45CA7A09.3040608@php.net>
Message-ID: <24388-05207@sneakemail.com>

Chris Shiflett shiflett-at-php.net |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>Joseph Crawford wrote:
>  
>
>>Hey guys, what would i need to do in order to make all of the
>>www. be removed from my urls?
>>    
>>
>
>>From http://no-www.org/:
>
>RewriteEngine On
>RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^www\.josephcrawford\.com$ [NC]
>RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://josephcrawford.com/$1 [R=301,L]
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>Chris
>
>  
>
ummm..... be careful when taking code snippets and standards advice from 
a site that doesn't validate and is broken in IE7. Especially when it 
promotes a back link campaign IMHO.

However, the code looks correct if that is what you want to do. I would 
also make sure that the site is not spiderable via https: so that you 
don't get traffic bypassing your rewrite rule (or perhaps a port 443 
check to the rewrite rule).

-=john andrews

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From greg.rundlett at gmail.com  Thu Feb  8 00:21:22 2007
From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 00:21:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Removing www.
In-Reply-To: <24388-05207@sneakemail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>
	<45CA7A09.3040608@php.net> <24388-05207@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <5e2aaca40702072121m7209bc72xeb7ca3100289bdc@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/7/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> Chris Shiflett shiflett-at-php.net |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
>
> >Joseph Crawford wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hey guys, what would i need to do in order to make all of the
> >>www. be removed from my urls?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >>From http://no-www.org/:
> >
> >RewriteEngine On
> >RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^www\.josephcrawford\.com$ [NC]
> >RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://josephcrawford.com/$1 [R=301,L]
> >
> >Hope that helps.
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
> >
> ummm..... be careful when taking code snippets and standards advice from
> a site that doesn't validate and is broken in IE7. Especially when it
> promotes a back link campaign IMHO.
>
> However, the code looks correct if that is what you want to do. I would
> also make sure that the site is not spiderable via https: so that you
> don't get traffic bypassing your rewrite rule (or perhaps a port 443
> check to the rewrite rule).
>
> -=john andrews
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>

If you can edit the apache configuration, here is an extra measure to
ensure that your PHP scripts get the right 'answer' for
_SERVER['HOST_NAME']

create a virtual host container for josephcrawford.com, use the
ServerAlias directive to make the server respond to requests directed
to 'www'.  Tell Apache to use it's canonical ServerName when
constructing self-referential URLs.  Note this will not prevent people
from browsing the www site, so you still need the mod rewrite if you
want to catch those urls AND force them to be democratic (No Dub-ya).

ServerName josephcrawford.com
ServerAlias www.josephcrawford.com foo.josephcrawford.com mr.josephcrawford.com
UseCanonical true

See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#serveralias

If you want to ignore / drop the www requests all together, then of
course you don't need the server alias.

On the other hand however if you do care about catching www traffic,
but you want to force it over to the dub-ya-less domain, then the
first answer (setting up an A record in DNS) is key to resolving those
requests to your host.  Good DNS providers / Registrars make this
relatively simple to do.  Combine the A record with a single Virtual
host definition plus ServerAlias directives (as many as you want)

Hope that helps


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Feb  8 03:06:27 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 00:06:27 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Removing www.
In-Reply-To: <5e2aaca40702072121m7209bc72xeb7ca3100289bdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>	<45CA7A09.3040608@php.net>
	<24388-05207@sneakemail.com>
	<5e2aaca40702072121m7209bc72xeb7ca3100289bdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14350-72641@sneakemail.com>

Greg Rundlett greg.rundlett-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| 
wrote:

> On 2/7/07, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Chris Shiflett shiflett-at-php.net |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
>>
>> >Joseph Crawford wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>Hey guys, what would i need to do in order to make all of the
>> >>www. be removed from my urls?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>From http://no-www.org/:
>> >
>> >RewriteEngine On
>> >RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^www\.josephcrawford\.com$ [NC]
>> >RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://josephcrawford.com/$1 [R=301,L]
>> >
>> >Hope that helps.
>> >
>> >Chris
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ummm..... be careful when taking code snippets and standards advice from
>> a site that doesn't validate and is broken in IE7. Especially when it
>> promotes a back link campaign IMHO.
>>
>> However, the code looks correct if that is what you want to do. I would
>> also make sure that the site is not spiderable via https: so that you
>> don't get traffic bypassing your rewrite rule (or perhaps a port 443
>> check to the rewrite rule).
>>
>> -=john andrews
>>
>> -- 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>> Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web 
>> business information available. Do you know where your logs are right 
>> now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they 
>> were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews 
>> Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>
> If you can edit the apache configuration, here is an extra measure to
> ensure that your PHP scripts get the right 'answer' for
> _SERVER['HOST_NAME']
>
> create a virtual host container for josephcrawford.com, use the
> ServerAlias directive to make the server respond to requests directed
> to 'www'.  Tell Apache to use it's canonical ServerName when
> constructing self-referential URLs.  Note this will not prevent people
> from browsing the www site, so you still need the mod rewrite if you
> want to catch those urls AND force them to be democratic (No Dub-ya).
>
> ServerName josephcrawford.com
> ServerAlias www.josephcrawford.com foo.josephcrawford.com 
> mr.josephcrawford.com
> UseCanonical true
>
> See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#serveralias
>
> If you want to ignore / drop the www requests all together, then of
> course you don't need the server alias.
>
> On the other hand however if you do care about catching www traffic,
> but you want to force it over to the dub-ya-less domain, then the
> first answer (setting up an A record in DNS) is key to resolving those
> requests to your host.  Good DNS providers / Registrars make this
> relatively simple to do.  Combine the A record with a single Virtual
> host definition plus ServerAlias directives (as many as you want)
>
> Hope that helps






Greg I think there's a bit more to it, because most DNS / Hosting setups 
place the A record and aliases such that they create distinct copies of 
your site (per each alias). Search engines will index www. and non-www  
and any additional aliases as different sites, and if there is 
duplication will likely drop all but one copy. Due to the way search 
engines honor incoming links, you can end up with a site whose existence 
in search engines depends on the whim of external factors you can't control.

The rewrite rule above throws a 301 Permanent redirect response code, 
which the search engines use to help identify the primary web site that 
should be kept in the search index. If you care to maintain a stable 
presence in the search engines, you need to be sure you have a single 
web site URL.




From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Feb  8 06:49:46 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 06:49:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Removing www.
In-Reply-To: <24388-05207@sneakemail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702071639h3bc78dbaja94fcf278522cbe5@mail.gmail.com>	<45CA7A09.3040608@php.net>
	<24388-05207@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <45CB0E5A.6040603@gmx.net>

inforequest wrote:
> Chris Shiflett shiflett-at-php.net |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
> 
>> Joseph Crawford wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Hey guys, what would i need to do in order to make all of the
>>> www. be removed from my urls?
>>>   
>>
>>>> From http://no-www.org/:
>>

> ummm..... be careful when taking code snippets and standards advice from 
> a site that doesn't validate and is broken in IE7. Especially when it 
> promotes a back link campaign IMHO.
> 
> However, the code looks correct if that is what you want to do. I would 
> also make sure that the site is not spiderable via https: so that you 
> don't get traffic bypassing your rewrite rule (or perhaps a port 443 
> check to the rewrite rule).
> 
> -=john andrews
> 


This discussion is interesting. From my limited DNS and records 
knowledge, I used register.com way back when and was able to simply not 
put anything other than the static IP in. That means, http://mysite.com 
went to port 80, ftp://mysite.com to port 21. It also doesn't matter if 
one put the www in front of it. My experience is that even an 
http://fgudf.mysite.com will resolve fine, even when it doesn't point to 
anything in particular. Also http://gggg.dddd.ssss.mysite.com works, but 
http://abcdef.www.mysite.com doesn't, which is a bid odd.

So getting the www off from your site url is pretty easy. Simply point 
the main name to the server IP and call it done. I think though that 
will not stop people from putting the www in and get to your site anyway.

Besides that, your question was also interpreted to ask for replacing 
the www in any url within a script. Wouldn't there a simply string 
replace do the job?



From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Feb  8 11:29:56 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 11:29:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
Message-ID: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>

I have a 10MB file that needs to be uploaded through a form. Seems
simple enough. Just modify php.ini to allow larger files, or user
ini_set().

The problem is that when I select this file and try to upload it,
nothing get passed in the $_REQUEST array, so I can't figure out what
is going on here.

Basically, I have this:

if(isset($_POST['save'])){
//process form
echo 'form is submitted';
}

If I select a smaller file, it prints the message. If I select the
larger one, no luck.

Any ideas?

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From tom at supertom.com  Thu Feb  8 11:51:58 2007
From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 11:51:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Randal,

On 2/8/07, Randal Rust <randalrust at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a 10MB file that needs to be uploaded through a form. Seems
> simple enough. Just modify php.ini to allow larger files, or user
> ini_set().
Max post size, max upload size and max memory limit?

Have you turned on display_errors, or looked in the logs?

You should also be able to check the $_FILES array for the error element....

Tom
http://www.liphp.org


From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Feb  8 11:58:03 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 11:58:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45CB569B.8010701@gmx.net>

Randal Rust wrote:
> I have a 10MB file that needs to be uploaded through a form. Seems
> simple enough. Just modify php.ini to allow larger files, or user
> ini_set().
> 
> The problem is that when I select this file and try to upload it,
> nothing get passed in the $_REQUEST array, so I can't figure out what
> is going on here.
> 
> Basically, I have this:
> 
> if(isset($_POST['save'])){
> //process form
> echo 'form is submitted';
> }
> 
> If I select a smaller file, it prints the message. If I select the
> larger one, no luck.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 


Yes, what are the form limits for your web server? I know Apache has a 
setting that limits how much space is reserved for form data coming in 
from a client. I do not know what the default is, but it for sure is 
less than 10 MB. Keep in mind that that setting is for all form data, 
nut just a file.

HTH,

David


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Thu Feb  8 12:03:30 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:03:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45CB57E2.5090606@phpwerx.net>

Randal Rust wrote:
> I have a 10MB file that needs to be uploaded through a form. Seems
> simple enough. Just modify php.ini to allow larger files, or user
> ini_set().
> 
> The problem is that when I select this file and try to upload it,
> nothing get passed in the $_REQUEST array, so I can't figure out what
> is going on here.
> 
> Basically, I have this:
> 
> if(isset($_POST['save'])){
> //process form
> echo 'form is submitted';
> }
> 
> If I select a smaller file, it prints the message. If I select the
> larger one, no luck.
> 
> Any ideas?

There is also a limit in Apache

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#limitrequestbody

Dan



From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Feb  8 12:14:23 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:14:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
In-Reply-To: <117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>
	<117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50702080914g1bcdcea3w97a404c3858ef821@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/07, Tom Melendez <tom at supertom.com> wrote:

> Have you turned on display_errors, or looked in the logs?

Yes. There is nothing there.

> You should also be able to check the $_FILES array for the error element....

That's part of  the problem. When I upload this larger file, I don't
get the $_FILES array.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From patrick.fee at baesystems.com  Thu Feb  8 12:23:18 2007
From: patrick.fee at baesystems.com (Fee, Patrick J (US SSA))
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:23:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Open Source cell Phone usage tracker.....
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com><117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9caffe50702080914g1bcdcea3w97a404c3858ef821@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71053F7EC6@blums0007.na.baesystems.com>

Hello Gang,

I've been tasked with developing a basic db to track department cell
phone usage, plans, numbers, types of phones and software.  

This way corporate knows who has what, and if they are on the best plan
and with the latest software (like the a Blackberry 8100 with 4.1.03
software).

Does anyone know of an open source solution... perhaps something in
SourceForge?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Patrick J. Fee
IT Software Analysis Solutions Group Manager
Tel: (301) 231-1418
Cel: (240) 401-6820
Fax: (301) 231-2635
Patrick.Fee at BAESystems.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. 
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. 
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us."    
                         --- Marianne Williamson





From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Feb  8 12:30:14 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:30:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
In-Reply-To: <45CB57E2.5090606@phpwerx.net>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>
	<45CB57E2.5090606@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50702080930o3407776dy29cd982befde9e69@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:

> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#limitrequestbody

This sounds like the likely culprit. The thing is, my local server
(1.3) doesn't have this directive.

I have the client checking into what the setting is on their server.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From nate at cakephp.org  Thu Feb  8 12:31:21 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:31:21 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Removing www.
In-Reply-To: <20070208165430.47B6410A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070208165430.47B6410A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <C0BC9147-6258-4A4F-8270-21902F5CC9FE@cakephp.org>

Broken on IE7?  Is that like a joke or something?

> ummm..... be careful when taking code snippets and standards advice  
> from
> a site that doesn't validate and is broken in IE7. Especially when it
> promotes a back link campaign IMHO.




From matt at atopia.net  Thu Feb  8 13:22:12 2007
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 13:22:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
In-Reply-To: <728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71053F7EC6@blums0007.na.baesystems.com>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com><117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9caffe50702080914g1bcdcea3w97a404c3858ef821@mail.gmail.com>
	<728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71053F7EC6@blums0007.na.baesystems.com>
Message-ID: <20070208132056.C35617@saturn.atopia.net>

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based email portal 
software that I could install on my webserver.

I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a decent WAP email 
client and i couldn't find one.

A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of a decent 
PHP powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?

Thanks,

Matt


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Feb  8 13:26:20 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 10:26:20 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Removing www.
In-Reply-To: <C0BC9147-6258-4A4F-8270-21902F5CC9FE@cakephp.org>
References: <20070208165430.47B6410A806D@cakephp.org>
	<C0BC9147-6258-4A4F-8270-21902F5CC9FE@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <21856-47719@sneakemail.com>

Nate Abele nate-at-cakephp.org |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> Broken on IE7?  Is that like a joke or something?
>
>> ummm..... be careful when taking code snippets and standards advice  
>> from
>> a site that doesn't validate and is broken in IE7. Especially when it
>> promotes a back link campaign IMHO.
>
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Excellent!


From nhart at musicpf.org  Thu Feb  8 13:26:00 2007
From: nhart at musicpf.org (Nicholas Hart)
Date: Thu,  8 Feb 2007 13:26:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
In-Reply-To: <20070208132056.C35617@saturn.atopia.net>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com><117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9caffe50702080914g1bcdcea3w97a404c3858ef821@mail.gmail.com>
	<728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71053F7EC6@blums0007.na.baesystems.com>
	<20070208132056.C35617@saturn.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <20070208132600.513tkeu0cgcc8ckw@mail.mptf.org>

I highly recommend horde.  Check out their website at: http://www.horde.org

Regards,
Nick H.


> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based email portal
> software that I could install on my webserver.
>
> I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a decent WAP
> email client and i couldn't find one.
>
> A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of a decent PHP
> powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php






From matt at atopia.net  Thu Feb  8 13:50:13 2007
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 13:50:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
In-Reply-To: <20070208132600.513tkeu0cgcc8ckw@mail.mptf.org>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com><117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9caffe50702080914g1bcdcea3w97a404c3858ef821@mail.gmail.com>
	<728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71053F7EC6@blums0007.na.baesystems.com>
	<20070208132056.C35617@saturn.atopia.net>
	<20070208132600.513tkeu0cgcc8ckw@mail.mptf.org>
Message-ID: <20070208134946.W44806@saturn.atopia.net>

Nick,

Mimp looks very decent, but it requires horde to be installed.  This looks 
like a bit of a gigantic bundle for just a tiny application....

-Matt

On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Nicholas Hart wrote:

> I highly recommend horde.  Check out their website at: http://www.horde.org
>
> Regards,
> Nick H.
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based email portal
>> software that I could install on my webserver.
>> 
>> I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a decent WAP
>> email client and i couldn't find one.
>> 
>> A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of a decent PHP
>> powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Matt
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> 
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> 
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> !DSPAM:45cb6d29365615578519450!


From nhart at musicpf.org  Thu Feb  8 14:15:56 2007
From: nhart at musicpf.org (Nicholas Hart)
Date: Thu,  8 Feb 2007 14:15:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
In-Reply-To: <20070208134946.W44806@saturn.atopia.net>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com><117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9caffe50702080914g1bcdcea3w97a404c3858ef821@mail.gmail.com>
	<728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71053F7EC6@blums0007.na.baesystems.com>
	<20070208132056.C35617@saturn.atopia.net>
	<20070208132600.513tkeu0cgcc8ckw@mail.mptf.org>
	<20070208134946.W44806@saturn.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <20070208141556.v54r2kyqf4w8ws4w@mail.mptf.org>

Matt,

What specifically are you trying to accomplish with it?

Nick


> Nick,
>
> Mimp looks very decent, but it requires horde to be installed.  This
> looks like a bit of a gigantic bundle for just a tiny application....
>
> -Matt
>
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Nicholas Hart wrote:
>
>> I highly recommend horde.  Check out their website at: http://www.horde.org
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nick H.
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based email portal
>>> software that I could install on my webserver.
>>>
>>> I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a decent WAP
>>> email client and i couldn't find one.
>>>
>>> A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of a decent PHP
>>> powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Matt
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>>
>> !DSPAM:45cb6d29365615578519450!
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php






From rolan at omnistep.com  Thu Feb  8 14:41:49 2007
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 14:41:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
In-Reply-To: <20070208132056.C35617@saturn.atopia.net>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com><117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>	<a9caffe50702080914g1bcdcea3w97a404c3858ef821@mail.gmail.com>	<728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71053F7EC6@blums0007.na.baesystems.com>
	<20070208132056.C35617@saturn.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <45CB7CFD.3020400@omnistep.com>

Not answering your question directly but, gmail is quite usable over wap.

~Rolan

Matt Juszczak wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based email portal 
> software that I could install on my webserver.
>
> I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a decent WAP 
> email client and i couldn't find one.
>
> A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of a decent PHP 
> powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>
>


From matt at atopia.net  Thu Feb  8 15:24:27 2007
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 15:24:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
In-Reply-To: <20070208141556.v54r2kyqf4w8ws4w@mail.mptf.org>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com><117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9caffe50702080914g1bcdcea3w97a404c3858ef821@mail.gmail.com>
	<728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71053F7EC6@blums0007.na.baesystems.com>
	<20070208132056.C35617@saturn.atopia.net>
	<20070208132600.513tkeu0cgcc8ckw@mail.mptf.org>
	<20070208134946.W44806@saturn.atopia.net>
	<20070208141556.v54r2kyqf4w8ws4w@mail.mptf.org>
Message-ID: <20070208152410.A47898@saturn.atopia.net>

I am trying to install something that I can use my WAP browser to check 
imap/imaps, write, folders, etc.

On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Nicholas Hart wrote:

> Matt,
>
> What specifically are you trying to accomplish with it?
>
> Nick
>
>
>> Nick,
>> 
>> Mimp looks very decent, but it requires horde to be installed.  This
>> looks like a bit of a gigantic bundle for just a tiny application....
>> 
>> -Matt
>> 
>> On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Nicholas Hart wrote:
>> 
>>> I highly recommend horde.  Check out their website at: 
>>> http://www.horde.org
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Nick H.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based email portal
>>>> software that I could install on my webserver.
>>>> 
>>>> I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a decent WAP
>>>> email client and i couldn't find one.
>>>> 
>>>> A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of a decent PHP
>>>> powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Matt
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>> 
>>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>> 
>>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> 
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> 
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> 
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> 
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> !DSPAM:45cb78dc485571377085587!


From john at johnreynolds.net  Thu Feb  8 15:28:12 2007
From: john at johnreynolds.net (John Reynolds)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 15:28:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
In-Reply-To: <E1HFFrJ-0005cy-0Q@web1.strikeholdings.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.8.1363003653.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

This might be dopey, but the section on php.net about handling file uploads
mentions a hidden field you put in your HTML form to specify max upload
size. I think it's optional, but if you have it, and the max size is wrong,
or if it's in the wrong place (it needs to be before the input field), maybe
that's the culprit? I was just thinking it's client-side, since you're
getting no info from $_FILES. -- john r.

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: talk-request at lists.nyphp.org 
>>> [mailto:talk-request at lists.nyphp.org] 
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:27 PM
>>> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
>>> Subject: talk Digest, Vol 4, Issue 15
>>> 
>>> Send talk mailing list submissions to
>>> 	talk at lists.nyphp.org
>>> 
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> 	http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> 	talk-request at lists.nyphp.org
>>> 
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> 	talk-owner at lists.nyphp.org
>>> 
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>>    1. Re: Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file (Dan Cech)
>>>    2. Re: Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file 
>>> (Randal Rust)
>>>    3. Open Source cell Phone usage tracker.....
>>>       (Fee, Patrick J (US SSA))
>>>    4. Re: Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file 
>>> (Randal Rust)
>>>    5. Re: Removing www. (Nate Abele)
>>>    6. WAP Email Portal (Matt Juszczak)
>>>    7. Re: Re: Removing www. (inforequest)
>>>    8. Re: WAP Email Portal (Nicholas Hart)
>>>    9. Re: WAP Email Portal (Matt Juszczak)
>>>   10. Re: WAP Email Portal (Nicholas Hart)
>>>   11. Re: WAP Email Portal (Rolan Yang)
>>>   12. Re: WAP Email Portal (Matt Juszczak)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:03:30 -0500
>>> From: Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large
>>> 	file
>>> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>> Message-ID: <45CB57E2.5090606 at phpwerx.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>> 
>>> Randal Rust wrote:
>>> > I have a 10MB file that needs to be uploaded through a form. Seems
>>> > simple enough. Just modify php.ini to allow larger files, or user
>>> > ini_set().
>>> > 
>>> > The problem is that when I select this file and try to upload it,
>>> > nothing get passed in the $_REQUEST array, so I can't 
>>> figure out what
>>> > is going on here.
>>> > 
>>> > Basically, I have this:
>>> > 
>>> > if(isset($_POST['save'])){
>>> > //process form
>>> > echo 'form is submitted';
>>> > }
>>> > 
>>> > If I select a smaller file, it prints the message. If I select the
>>> > larger one, no luck.
>>> > 
>>> > Any ideas?
>>> 
>>> There is also a limit in Apache
>>> 
>>> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#limitrequestbody
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:14:23 -0500
>>> From: "Randal Rust" <randalrust at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large
>>> 	file
>>> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>> 	<a9caffe50702080914g1bcdcea3w97a404c3858ef821 at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>> 
>>> On 2/8/07, Tom Melendez <tom at supertom.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> > Have you turned on display_errors, or looked in the logs?
>>> 
>>> Yes. There is nothing there.
>>> 
>>> > You should also be able to check the $_FILES array for 
>>> the error element....
>>> 
>>> That's part of  the problem. When I upload this larger file, I don't
>>> get the $_FILES array.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Randal Rust
>>> R.Squared Communications
>>> www.r2communications.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:23:18 -0500
>>> From: "Fee, Patrick J \(US SSA\)" <patrick.fee at baesystems.com>
>>> Subject: [nycphp-talk] Open Source cell Phone usage tracker.....
>>> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>> 	
>>> <728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71053F7EC6 at blums0007.na.baesy
>>> stems.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>>> 
>>> Hello Gang,
>>> 
>>> I've been tasked with developing a basic db to track department cell
>>> phone usage, plans, numbers, types of phones and software.  
>>> 
>>> This way corporate knows who has what, and if they are on 
>>> the best plan
>>> and with the latest software (like the a Blackberry 8100 with 4.1.03
>>> software).
>>> 
>>> Does anyone know of an open source solution... perhaps something in
>>> SourceForge?
>>> 
>>> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Patrick J. Fee
>>> IT Software Analysis Solutions Group Manager
>>> Tel: (301) 231-1418
>>> Cel: (240) 401-6820
>>> Fax: (301) 231-2635
>>> Patrick.Fee at BAESystems.com
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
------------
>>> "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. 
>>> Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. 
>>> It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us."    
>>>                          --- Marianne Williamson
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:30:14 -0500
>>> From: "Randal Rust" <randalrust at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large
>>> 	file
>>> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>> 	<a9caffe50702080930o3407776dy29cd982befde9e69 at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>> 
>>> On 2/8/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#limitrequestbody
>>> 
>>> This sounds like the likely culprit. The thing is, my local server
>>> (1.3) doesn't have this directive.
>>> 
>>> I have the client checking into what the setting is on their server.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Randal Rust
>>> R.Squared Communications
>>> www.r2communications.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:31:21 -0500
>>> From: Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org>
>>> Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Removing www.
>>> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
>>> Message-ID: <C0BC9147-6258-4A4F-8270-21902F5CC9FE at cakephp.org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>> 
>>> Broken on IE7?  Is that like a joke or something?
>>> 
>>> > ummm..... be careful when taking code snippets and 
>>> standards advice  
>>> > from
>>> > a site that doesn't validate and is broken in IE7. 
>>> Especially when it
>>> > promotes a back link campaign IMHO.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 13:22:12 -0500 (EST)
>>> From: Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>
>>> Subject: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
>>> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>> Message-ID: <20070208132056.C35617 at saturn.atopia.net>
>>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based email portal 
>>> software that I could install on my webserver.
>>> 
>>> I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a 
>>> decent WAP email 
>>> client and i couldn't find one.
>>> 
>>> A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of a decent 
>>> PHP powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Matt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 10:26:20 -0800
>>> From: "inforequest" <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Re: Removing www.
>>> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
>>> Message-ID: <21856-47719 at sneakemail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>> 
>>> Nate Abele nate-at-cakephp.org |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
>>> 
>>> > Broken on IE7?  Is that like a joke or something?
>>> >
>>> >> ummm..... be careful when taking code snippets and 
>>> standards advice  
>>> >> from
>>> >> a site that doesn't validate and is broken in IE7. 
>>> Especially when it
>>> >> promotes a back link campaign IMHO.
>>> >
>>> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Excellent!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Thu,  8 Feb 2007 13:26:00 -0500
>>> From: Nicholas Hart <nhart at musicpf.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
>>> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
>>> Message-ID: <20070208132600.513tkeu0cgcc8ckw at mail.mptf.org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=ISO-8859-1;	DelSp="Yes";
>>> 	format="flowed"
>>> 
>>> I highly recommend horde.  Check out their website at: 
>>> http://www.horde.org
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Nick H.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based 
>>> email portal
>>> > software that I could install on my webserver.
>>> >
>>> > I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a 
>>> decent WAP
>>> > email client and i couldn't find one.
>>> >
>>> > A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of 
>>> a decent PHP
>>> > powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Matt
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> >
>>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> >
>>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 9
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 13:50:13 -0500 (EST)
>>> From: Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
>>> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>> Message-ID: <20070208134946.W44806 at saturn.atopia.net>
>>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>> 
>>> Nick,
>>> 
>>> Mimp looks very decent, but it requires horde to be 
>>> installed.  This looks 
>>> like a bit of a gigantic bundle for just a tiny application....
>>> 
>>> -Matt
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Nicholas Hart wrote:
>>> 
>>> > I highly recommend horde.  Check out their website at: 
>>> http://www.horde.org
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Nick H.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Hi all,
>>> >> 
>>> >> I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based 
>>> email portal
>>> >> software that I could install on my webserver.
>>> >> 
>>> >> I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a 
>>> decent WAP
>>> >> email client and i couldn't find one.
>>> >> 
>>> >> A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of 
>>> a decent PHP
>>> >> powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>>> >> 
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> 
>>> >> Matt
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> >> 
>>> >> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> >> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> >> 
>>> >> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> >
>>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> >
>>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > !DSPAM:45cb6d29365615578519450!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 10
>>> Date: Thu,  8 Feb 2007 14:15:56 -0500
>>> From: Nicholas Hart <nhart at musicpf.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
>>> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
>>> Message-ID: <20070208141556.v54r2kyqf4w8ws4w at mail.mptf.org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=ISO-8859-1;	DelSp="Yes";
>>> 	format="flowed"
>>> 
>>> Matt,
>>> 
>>> What specifically are you trying to accomplish with it?
>>> 
>>> Nick
>>> 
>>> 
>>> > Nick,
>>> >
>>> > Mimp looks very decent, but it requires horde to be 
>>> installed.  This
>>> > looks like a bit of a gigantic bundle for just a tiny 
>>> application....
>>> >
>>> > -Matt
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Nicholas Hart wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I highly recommend horde.  Check out their website at: 
>>> http://www.horde.org
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Nick H.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Hi all,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based 
>>> email portal
>>> >>> software that I could install on my webserver.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for 
>>> a decent WAP
>>> >>> email client and i couldn't find one.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> A better question would probably be: Does anyone know 
>>> of a decent PHP
>>> >>> powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Matt
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> >>>
>>> >>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> >>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> >>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> >>
>>> >> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> >> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> >>
>>> >> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> !DSPAM:45cb6d29365615578519450!
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> >
>>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> >
>>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 11
>>> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 14:41:49 -0500
>>> From: Rolan Yang <rolan at omnistep.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
>>> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>> Message-ID: <45CB7CFD.3020400 at omnistep.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>> 
>>> Not answering your question directly but, gmail is quite 
>>> usable over wap.
>>> 
>>> ~Rolan
>>> 
>>> Matt Juszczak wrote:
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based 
>>> email portal 
>>> > software that I could install on my webserver.
>>> >
>>> > I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a 
>>> decent WAP 
>>> > email client and i couldn't find one.
>>> >
>>> > A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of 
>>> a decent PHP 
>>> > powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 12
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 15:24:27 -0500 (EST)
>>> From: Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
>>> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>> Message-ID: <20070208152410.A47898 at saturn.atopia.net>
>>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>> 
>>> I am trying to install something that I can use my WAP 
>>> browser to check 
>>> imap/imaps, write, folders, etc.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Nicholas Hart wrote:
>>> 
>>> > Matt,
>>> >
>>> > What specifically are you trying to accomplish with it?
>>> >
>>> > Nick
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Nick,
>>> >> 
>>> >> Mimp looks very decent, but it requires horde to be 
>>> installed.  This
>>> >> looks like a bit of a gigantic bundle for just a tiny 
>>> application....
>>> >> 
>>> >> -Matt
>>> >> 
>>> >> On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Nicholas Hart wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >>> I highly recommend horde.  Check out their website at: 
>>> >>> http://www.horde.org
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Regards,
>>> >>> Nick H.
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>>> Hi all,
>>> >>>> 
>>> >>>> I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based 
>>> email portal
>>> >>>> software that I could install on my webserver.
>>> >>>> 
>>> >>>> I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for 
>>> a decent WAP
>>> >>>> email client and i couldn't find one.
>>> >>>> 
>>> >>>> A better question would probably be: Does anyone know 
>>> of a decent PHP
>>> >>>> powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>>> >>>> 
>>> >>>> Thanks,
>>> >>>> 
>>> >>>> Matt
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> >>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> >>>> 
>>> >>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> >>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> >>>> 
>>> >>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> >>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> >>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> >>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> >> 
>>> >> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> >> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> >> 
>>> >> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> >
>>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>> >
>>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > !DSPAM:45cb78dc485571377085587!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at lists.nyphp.org
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> 
>>> End of talk Digest, Vol 4, Issue 15
>>> ***********************************
>>> 
>>> 



From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Feb  8 15:51:37 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 15:51:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
In-Reply-To: <45CB57E2.5090606@phpwerx.net>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>
	<45CB57E2.5090606@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50702081251j2d6e5a17o7e42d77643b901ed@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:

> There is also a limit in Apache
>
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#limitrequestbody

Shouldn't this be explicitly defined in the httpd.conf file?

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Feb  8 16:02:41 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:02:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
In-Reply-To: <45cb8f2a.783b7da7.73c2.fffff994SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
References: <E1HFFrJ-0005cy-0Q@web1.strikeholdings.com>
	<45cb8f2a.783b7da7.73c2.fffff994SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50702081302i13b60c1cuea08350361106d5f@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/07, John Reynolds <john at johnreynolds.net> wrote:

> This might be dopey, but the section on php.net about handling file uploads
> mentions a hidden field you put in your HTML form to specify max upload
> size.

No, it's not dopey. I messed around with that too.

I am pretty sure it's the server. The request just doesn't get sent if
the size is too large.

The realilty is that people shouldn't be uploading 10MB files into
this system anyway.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Thu Feb  8 16:13:05 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 16:13:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50702080930o3407776dy29cd982befde9e69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>	<45CB57E2.5090606@phpwerx.net>
	<a9caffe50702080930o3407776dy29cd982befde9e69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45CB9261.8090103@phpwerx.net>

Randal Rust wrote:
> On 2/8/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:
> 
>> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#limitrequestbody
> 
> This sounds like the likely culprit. The thing is, my local server
> (1.3) doesn't have this directive.
> 
> I have the client checking into what the setting is on their server.

That directive is supported from Apache 1.3.2, I believe the default is
unlimited (0), but I know some distributions ship with it set in the
default config.

Other possible culprits are the php directive max_input_time, and the
Apache directive Timeout.

Dan


From paul at gubavision.com  Thu Feb  8 16:21:02 2007
From: paul at gubavision.com (Paul)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:21:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Cannot debug issue with uploading a large file
In-Reply-To: <45CB9261.8090103@phpwerx.net>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com>	<45CB57E2.5090606@phpwerx.net>
	<a9caffe50702080930o3407776dy29cd982befde9e69@mail.gmail.com>
	<45CB9261.8090103@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <549CEC6C-3731-4A08-A765-6F6C9D5F10E3@gubavision.com>

When I had this issue I found php.ini to be the culprit.

Paul
On Feb 8, 2007, at 4:13 PM, Dan Cech wrote:

> Randal Rust wrote:
>> On 2/8/07, Dan Cech <dcech at phpwerx.net> wrote:
>>
>>> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#limitrequestbody
>>
>> This sounds like the likely culprit. The thing is, my local server
>> (1.3) doesn't have this directive.
>>
>> I have the client checking into what the setting is on their server.
>
> That directive is supported from Apache 1.3.2, I believe the  
> default is
> unlimited (0), but I know some distributions ship with it set in the
> default config.
>
> Other possible culprits are the php directive max_input_time, and the
> Apache directive Timeout.
>
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From pyurt at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  8 19:41:13 2007
From: pyurt at yahoo.com (P Yurt)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:41:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
Message-ID: <507214.34834.qm@web52203.mail.yahoo.com>

I was looking for the same. I did find some WAP stuff on
Sourceforge but not
any PHP WAP email things.

I use gmail a bit but don't like the big fish reading my mail
especially
while I am mobile so they then would know what I am
communicating and where
I am doing it from...maybe I am paranoid but?  

Explore the Evolving Web 
www.2.0websites.com  
Paul Yurt, Publisher 
paul(@)2.0websites.com 

 


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of Rolan Yang
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:42 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal

Not answering your question directly but, gmail is quite usable
over wap.

~Rolan

Matt Juszczak wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering if anyone knew of a "decent" wap based email
portal 
> software that I could install on my webserver.
>
> I've designed a tiny one in WML, but I was looking for a
decent WAP 
> email client and i couldn't find one.
>
> A better question would probably be: Does anyone know of a
decent PHP 
> powered WAP-based imap/imaps solution?
>
>
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Thu Feb  8 20:08:09 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 20:08:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WAP Email Portal
In-Reply-To: <20070208152410.A47898@saturn.atopia.net>
References: <a9caffe50702080829k4d88ab23o66db46746342b367@mail.gmail.com><117286890702080851i3ebbc90fn44a475da99046625@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9caffe50702080914g1bcdcea3w97a404c3858ef821@mail.gmail.com>
	<728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71053F7EC6@blums0007.na.baesystems.com>
	<20070208132056.C35617@saturn.atopia.net>
	<20070208132600.513tkeu0cgcc8ckw@mail.mptf.org>
	<20070208134946.W44806@saturn.atopia.net>
	<20070208141556.v54r2kyqf4w8ws4w@mail.mptf.org>
	<20070208152410.A47898@saturn.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <2D938C98-E8E7-40E4-ADDC-0BECC7E35342@jonbaer.com>

Normally don't bother w/ a full blown "portal" per se ... but you can  
probably proxy it with getmail (http://pyropus.ca/software/getmail/)

This little app is pretty cool in that you can pipe off your mail to  
a PHP script (ie format it, grep it, etc)

Take a look @ the configuration page to get an idea ... http:// 
pyropus.ca/software/getmail/configuration.html

Only recommend it because it supports single and multi IMAP (+SSL)  
(and you wouldn't need to recompile PHP for IMAP support)

- Jon

On Feb 8, 2007, at 3:24 PM, Matt Juszczak wrote:

> I am trying to install something that I can use my WAP browser to  
> check imap/imaps, write, folders, etc.
>
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Nicholas Hart wrote:
>
>> Matt,
>>
>> What specifically are you trying to accomplish with it?
>>
>> Nick


From ken at secdat.com  Fri Feb  9 07:47:06 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 07:47:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Various Andromeda Announcements
Message-ID: <45CC6D4A.9050501@secdat.com>

SOURCEFORGE
-----------

The Andromeda project is now using Sourceforge.net to host our downloads 
and to provide news and mailing lists.  The site is at:

www.sourceforge.net/projects/andro


NEW DOMAIN: ANDROMED-PROJECT.ORG
--------------------------------

We have also obtained a new domain name to host the main project site, 
which is:

http://www.andromeda-project.org


BROWSER-BASED INSTALL
---------------------

We have a new browser-based install to replace the old command-line 
install.  Some early adopters have worked out a couple of kinks for us 
and it is beginning to look strong.

TUTORIALS PROJECT
-----------------

For the past two weeks we have been working on "one tutorial per day", 
until the entire feature set is covered.  We are on schedule with ten 
tutorials so far, more to come.
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From dcech at phpwerx.net  Fri Feb  9 09:35:57 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 09:35:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bounces when posting to Talk
Message-ID: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>

All,

Whenever I post I receive the bounce message below.  I can only assume
this is because of a bogus email address subscribed to the list.

Is anyone else receiving bounces when posting?

Dan

-------- Original Message --------
Date: 8 Feb 2007 09:10:51 -0800
From: <>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;

?From: postmaster at mail.hotmail.com
To: <dcech at phpwerx.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 09:10:50 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="9B095B5ADSN=_7CF8FE83A2854ABBA98ACD38820?WOM1.labinte"
X-DSNContext: 7ce717b1 - 1196 - 00000002 - 00000000
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
Return-Path: <>

This is a MIME-formatted message.
Portions of this message may be unreadable without a MIME-capable mail
program.

--9B095B5ADSN=_7CF8FE83A2854ABBA98ACD38820?WOM1.labinte
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unicode-1-1-utf-7

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

       math3006 at hotmail.com




--9B095B5ADSN=_7CF8FE83A2854ABBA98ACD38820?WOM1.labinte
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns;imc2-s4.hotmail.com
Received-From-MTA: dns;wim1-s4.hotmail.com
Arrival-Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 09:07:50 GMT

Final-Recipient: rfc822;math3006 at hotmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.5.0
Diagnostic-Code: smtp;550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable

--9B095B5ADSN=_7CF8FE83A2854ABBA98ACD38820?WOM1.labinte
Content-Type: message/rfc822

X-Message-Status: n:0
X-SID-PRA: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
X-Message-Info: txF49lGdW43Xj6BNJ4xZyXv19exhYzqNDT/WeWH59D8=
Received: from ne3.nyphp.com ([207.58.185.222]) by
bay0-mc4-f14.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444);
	 Thu, 8 Feb 2007 09:05:55 -0800
Received: (qmail 5594 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 12:03:33 -0500
Received: from localhost (HELO ne3.nyphp.com) (127.0.0.1)
  by localhost with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 12:03:33 -0500
Return-Path: <dcech at phpwerx.net>

<snip>


From lists at zaunere.com  Fri Feb  9 09:50:33 2007
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 09:50:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bounces when posting to Talk
In-Reply-To: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>
References: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <013101c74c59$a6817210$680aa8c0@MZ>



Dan Cech wrote:
> All,
> 
> Whenever I post I receive the bounce message below.  I can only assume
> this is because of a bogus email address subscribed to the list.
> 
> Is anyone else receiving bounces when posting?

Will let you know after I post this message :)

If folks are seeing bounces from a common set of email addresses, let me
know and I'll remove them.

H



From darian at criticode.com  Fri Feb  9 09:52:02 2007
From: darian at criticode.com (Darian Anthony Patrick)
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 09:52:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bounces when posting to Talk
In-Reply-To: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>
References: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <45CC8A92.3010207@criticode.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dan Cech wrote:
> All,
> 
> Whenever I post I receive the bounce message below.  I can only assume
> this is because of a bogus email address subscribed to the list.
> 
> Is anyone else receiving bounces when posting?

I received one after my last post.

- --
Darian Anthony Patrick
Principal, Application Development
Criticode LLC
(215) 240-6566 Office
(866) 789-2992 Facsimile
Web:   http://criticode.com
Email: darian at criticode.com
JID:   darian at jabber.criticode.net
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFzIqSKpzEXPWA4IcRAh8yAJ4/PeEyoJM9nucBLhufzJjQTRi98QCeIpBI
IAGWUKhjmUcbeowR3Zc0KJk=
=KrPi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From SHalter at ThorntonTomasetti.com  Fri Feb  9 13:33:15 2007
From: SHalter at ThorntonTomasetti.com (Halter, Shari)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:33:15 -0500 
Subject: [nycphp-talk] VERY user friendly php-compatible CMS
Message-ID: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAB@ny1post.thettgroup.com>

 
Hi,

Can anyone recommend a VERY user friendly CMS that could be integrated well
with a primarily php/html/mysql site?

I maintain an internal corporate web site that has several departmental
(marketing, accounting, HR, etc.) contributors and the need for archiving,
taxonomy, searching, targeted viewing/editing etc.  

The back end of Drupal seems like what we would need. We have been operating
within that for a few months, but the management is very unhappy with the
interface and text editors and won't even consider any capabilities beyond
their immediate interaction with it. What they really want is WYSIWYG, in
place, editing.  They are currently advocating Macromedia Contribute, simply
because of its ease of use; it is a cute little html editor, but I would
hardly call it a CMS. The reality is we will also need to serve single
stories out to different pages, have it be searchable, etc.

Any suggestions?  

I am not familiar with Joomla, but I wonder how it would compare at the
front end?

Thanks,
Shari

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
The information in this email and any attachments may contain
confidential information that is intended solely for the
attention and use of the named addressee(s).  This message or
any part thereof must not be disclosed, copied, distributed or
retained by any person without authorization from the addressee.
If you are not the intended addressee, please notify the sender
immediately, and delete this message. 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Fri Feb  9 13:53:59 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:53:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] VERY user friendly php-compatible CMS
In-Reply-To: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAB@ny1post.thettgroup.com>
References: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAB@ny1post.thettgroup.com>
Message-ID: <45CCC347.1030303@cyberxdesigns.com>

Halter, Shari wrote:
>
> Any suggestions?  
>
> I am not familiar with Joomla, but I wonder how it would compare at the
> front end?
>   

My group has been customizing and installing Joomla for a couple of 
years.  It offers inline editing using a wysiwig.  It has it quirks but 
works very well for our customers.  We usually write a small manual that 
summarizes the full Joomla manual and covers just the features the 
customer will be using.  And we customize the administrative interface 
to remove access to the nasty bits the users may not need.  Joomla does 
create some ugly URLS and the templating is nav driven, so these can be 
headaches also.  You can access the same piece of content through more 
then 1 URL even if that URL is not defined in the navigation.  This can 
be a problem for some and needs to be considered.  If you install 
Joomla, take some time to download and read the manual.  It is very 
helpful.  Ahh!!!  One more thing.  1 piece of content can only be 
categorized into one Section/Category.  This can be a problem if a piece 
of content should truly be in categorized in two places at once.   This 
can be handled creatively.

I would strongly recommend avoiding contribute.   It is like an evil 
pink Cool-Aide.  It scales very very poorly.   The template control 
system is awful.  If you want to make a change to a main navigational 
element through Contribute, it will download every page and make the 
change.  The process of downloading, updating and uploading hundreds or 
thousands of pages takes a long time and is failure prone.  Nothing in 
contribute is database driven, it is purely file driven.  It is nice for 
the first 10-25 pages of a site.  Beyond that and thing get very 
difficult to manage.

Just my $.02.

Hans K



From tacofighter at gmail.com  Fri Feb  9 14:14:09 2007
From: tacofighter at gmail.com (Aaron Deutsch)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:14:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] VERY user friendly php-compatible CMS
In-Reply-To: <45CCC347.1030303@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAB@ny1post.thettgroup.com>
	<45CCC347.1030303@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <f32de7f50702091114m225352f3xdfc5cb3271f3e062@mail.gmail.com>

I'm just starting with drupal 5.x    Did you add the fckeditor module to the
text editors?   (Allowing you MS Word style buttons)




On 2/9/07, Hans C. Kaspersetz <hans at cyberxdesigns.com> wrote:
>
> Halter, Shari wrote:
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> >
> > I am not familiar with Joomla, but I wonder how it would compare at the
> > front end?
> >
>
> My group has been customizing and installing Joomla for a couple of
> years.  It offers inline editing using a wysiwig.  It has it quirks but
> works very well for our customers.  We usually write a small manual that
> summarizes the full Joomla manual and covers just the features the
> customer will be using.  And we customize the administrative interface
> to remove access to the nasty bits the users may not need.  Joomla does
> create some ugly URLS and the templating is nav driven, so these can be
> headaches also.  You can access the same piece of content through more
> then 1 URL even if that URL is not defined in the navigation.  This can
> be a problem for some and needs to be considered.  If you install
> Joomla, take some time to download and read the manual.  It is very
> helpful.  Ahh!!!  One more thing.  1 piece of content can only be
> categorized into one Section/Category.  This can be a problem if a piece
> of content should truly be in categorized in two places at once.   This
> can be handled creatively.
>
> I would strongly recommend avoiding contribute.   It is like an evil
> pink Cool-Aide.  It scales very very poorly.   The template control
> system is awful.  If you want to make a change to a main navigational
> element through Contribute, it will download every page and make the
> change.  The process of downloading, updating and uploading hundreds or
> thousands of pages takes a long time and is failure prone.  Nothing in
> contribute is database driven, it is purely file driven.  It is nice for
> the first 10-25 pages of a site.  Beyond that and thing get very
> difficult to manage.
>
> Just my $.02.
>
> Hans K
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From SHalter at ThorntonTomasetti.com  Fri Feb  9 14:14:07 2007
From: SHalter at ThorntonTomasetti.com (Halter, Shari)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:14:07 -0500 
Subject: [nycphp-talk] VERY user friendly php-compatible CMS
Message-ID: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAC@ny1post.thettgroup.com>

I added tinyMCE and it was just getting to the actual content piece that
threw them.  They wanted to edit it "on the page".  I think there's a lack
of understanding about the back-end, or else a wishful desire for wizardry
that may not exist.
 
Oh, yes, and thank you for reminding me Hans, another snag:  they are
fanatical about URLs, to the point where I have to redirect everything into
a directory called "/home".
 



Shari L. Halter 
Web Programmer, Corporate Services 
Thornton Tomasetti 
51 Madison Avenue 
New York, NY  10010 
T 917.661.7800  F 917.661.7801   
D 917.661.7970   
SHalter at ThorntonTomasetti.com 


 

   _____  

From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of Aaron Deutsch
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 2:14 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] VERY user friendly php-compatible CMS


I'm just starting with drupal 5.x    Did you add the fckeditor module to the
text editors?   (Allowing you MS Word style buttons)





On 2/9/07, Hans C. Kaspersetz <hans at cyberxdesigns.com
<mailto:hans at cyberxdesigns.com> > wrote: 

Halter, Shari wrote:
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> I am not familiar with Joomla, but I wonder how it would compare at the
> front end?
>

My group has been customizing and installing Joomla for a couple of 
years.  It offers inline editing using a wysiwig.  It has it quirks but
works very well for our customers.  We usually write a small manual that
summarizes the full Joomla manual and covers just the features the 
customer will be using.  And we customize the administrative interface
to remove access to the nasty bits the users may not need.  Joomla does
create some ugly URLS and the templating is nav driven, so these can be 
headaches also.  You can access the same piece of content through more
then 1 URL even if that URL is not defined in the navigation.  This can
be a problem for some and needs to be considered.  If you install
Joomla, take some time to download and read the manual.  It is very
helpful.  Ahh!!!  One more thing.  1 piece of content can only be
categorized into one Section/Category.  This can be a problem if a piece
of content should truly be in categorized in two places at once.   This 
can be handled creatively.

I would strongly recommend avoiding contribute.   It is like an evil
pink Cool-Aide.  It scales very very poorly.   The template control
system is awful.  If you want to make a change to a main navigational 
element through Contribute, it will download every page and make the
change.  The process of downloading, updating and uploading hundreds or
thousands of pages takes a long time and is failure prone.  Nothing in 
contribute is database driven, it is purely file driven.  It is nice for
the first 10-25 pages of a site.  Beyond that and thing get very
difficult to manage.

Just my $.02.

Hans K

_______________________________________________ 
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
<http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk> 

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com <http://www.nyphpcon.com> 

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
<http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php> 




<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Fri Feb  9 14:31:10 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 11:31:10 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] VERY user friendly php-compatible CMS
In-Reply-To: <45CCC347.1030303@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAB@ny1post.thettgroup.com>
	<45CCC347.1030303@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <32042-61806@sneakemail.com>

Hans C. Kaspersetz hans-at-cyberxdesigns.com |nyphp dev/internal group 
use| wrote:

> Halter, Shari wrote:
>
>>
>> Any suggestions? 
>> I am not familiar with Joomla, but I wonder how it would compare at the
>> front end?
>>   
>
>
> My group has been customizing and installing Joomla for a couple of 
> years.  It offers inline editing using a wysiwig.  It has it quirks 
> but works very well for our customers.  We usually write a small 
> manual that summarizes the full Joomla manual and covers just the 
> features the customer will be using.  And we customize the 
> administrative interface to remove access to the nasty bits the users 
> may not need.  Joomla does create some ugly URLS and the templating is 
> nav driven, so these can be headaches also.  You can access the same 
> piece of content through more then 1 URL even if that URL is not 
> defined in the navigation.  This can be a problem for some and needs 
> to be considered.  If you install Joomla, take some time to download 
> and read the manual.  It is very helpful.  Ahh!!!  One more thing.  1 
> piece of content can only be categorized into one Section/Category.  
> This can be a problem if a piece of content should truly be in 
> categorized in two places at once.   This can be handled creatively.
>
> I would strongly recommend avoiding contribute.   It is like an evil 
> pink Cool-Aide.  It scales very very poorly.   The template control 
> system is awful.  If you want to make a change to a main navigational 
> element through Contribute, it will download every page and make the 
> change.  The process of downloading, updating and uploading hundreds 
> or thousands of pages takes a long time and is failure prone.  Nothing 
> in contribute is database driven, it is purely file driven.  It is 
> nice for the first 10-25 pages of a site.  Beyond that and thing get 
> very difficult to manage.
>
> Just my $.02.
>
> Hans K


+2 on Hans review of Contribute.

Skip Joomla and go to ModX 0.9.5


From paul at gubavision.com  Fri Feb  9 15:31:10 2007
From: paul at gubavision.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:31:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT Virtual Hosting
In-Reply-To: <32042-61806@sneakemail.com>
References: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAB@ny1post.thettgroup.com>
	<45CCC347.1030303@cyberxdesigns.com> <32042-61806@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <A7B5F0D0-197C-4EB0-96AA-D5660A0E30DA@gubavision.com>

Had an issue this morning where I was trying to configure the contact  
page for a joomla site I host to email me.  Spent about 2 hours  
trying to figure out why I wasn't receiving emails.  Seems that  
comcast had blocked all email coming from my domains because of  
spamming.    A shared hosting account another user had an open  
script.  Which made me think how long was I blocked?  What if I  
wasn't working on my site today?  How many other domains are blocking  
my email?  So now am thinking VPS any opinions?  Any other  
solutions.  Recommendations?  Cost is always a factor.

Thanks

Paul 


From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Sat Feb 10 10:52:29 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:52:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT Virtual Hosting
In-Reply-To: <A7B5F0D0-197C-4EB0-96AA-D5660A0E30DA@gubavision.com>
References: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAB@ny1post.thettgroup.com>
	<45CCC347.1030303@cyberxdesigns.com> <32042-61806@sneakemail.com>
	<A7B5F0D0-197C-4EB0-96AA-D5660A0E30DA@gubavision.com>
Message-ID: <1171122750.5089.2.camel@proberts>

Paul, 

I use VPS's religiously, not to advertise, but GoDaddy VPS's are great.
I have used some from other companies, but haven't been as happy or
impressed. I like the ability to have root access, but not having to
worry so much about the hardware or the cost of a colo'ed or leased
server. I outgrow VPS's a little quicker, but I make my money back on
them much quicker. 

If I am reading your email right though, your issue doesn't have so much
to do with your server, as it does, your blacklisted domains? 

pbr

On Fri, 2007-02-09 at 15:31 -0500, Paul wrote:

> Had an issue this morning where I was trying to configure the contact  
> page for a joomla site I host to email me.  Spent about 2 hours  
> trying to figure out why I wasn't receiving emails.  Seems that  
> comcast had blocked all email coming from my domains because of  
> spamming.    A shared hosting account another user had an open  
> script.  Which made me think how long was I blocked?  What if I  
> wasn't working on my site today?  How many other domains are blocking  
> my email?  So now am thinking VPS any opinions?  Any other  
> solutions.  Recommendations?  Cost is always a factor.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Paul 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Sat Feb 10 12:37:58 2007
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:37:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] VERY user friendly php-compatible CMS
In-Reply-To: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAC@ny1post.thettgroup.com>
References: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAC@ny1post.thettgroup.com>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0702100937o592f6e43r1782f767a5262994@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/9/07, Halter, Shari <SHalter at thorntontomasetti.com> wrote:
> Oh, yes, and thank you for reminding me Hans, another snag:  they are
> fanatical about URLs, to the point where I have to redirect everything into
> a directory called "/home".

In Drupal, there's a module called "Path" which will let you do all
kinds of things.  For example, you can turn
http://caseysoftware.com/node/360 into
http://caseysoftware.com/dotproject-mysql-conference-2007 pretty
easily.

If they want multiple pages to all appear with the same url, you have
bigger problems.  ;)

kc

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Feb 10 16:23:19 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 16:23:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Trapping Errors with simplexml for Not Well-Formed
	XML
In-Reply-To: <4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
Message-ID: <20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>

On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 10:21:15AM -0500, =?UTF-8?Q? Emmanuel_M._D=C3=A9carie ?= wrote:

> Adding to this problem, I discovered also that the DOM and simplexml  
> extensions can???t use the PHP5 exception handling to trap the errors  
> when the XML is not well-formed. Using simplexml or the DOM  
> extensions against not well-formed XML, the errors generated by these  
> extensions are not trapped and are displayed immediately.

$sxml = @simplexml_load_string($xml);
if ($sxml === false) {
    // do what you will about the problem.
}

OR

$php_errormsg = '';
if (!$dom = @DOMDocument::loadXML($xml)) {
    // $php_errormsg contains error info.
} elseif (!@$dom->schemaValidate('schema_file.xsd')) {
    // $php_errormsg contains error info.
}

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From ps at sun-code.com  Sat Feb 10 23:14:19 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 23:14:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Gipsy Kings
Message-ID: <004d01c74d93$20138570$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

 
Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code.com 
Web related services 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com
 
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From urb at e-government.com  Sun Feb 11 08:15:37 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 08:15:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>

It seem that any form on a web site attracts morons who capricious submit
to these forms. I'm not talking about just hitting the submit button but rather
a fully filled out form.

In some cases, such as a guest book, their action is misguided but
understandable. They want to advertise the sites selling little blue
pills and stock recommendations. However, is some cases they make
no sense at all such as submitting a bogus email address to a
newsletter subscription form.

I've done a few things, like disqualifying the submission of a guest book
entry containg "http://" that have been fairly effective. This doesn't
work for subscription type forms. These are especially annoying because
they eventually require the time to manually unsubscribe these entries.

Does anyone have any suggestions other then captcha.

Thanks

Urb 
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From xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com  Sun Feb 11 08:34:36 2007
From: xdarkshadow98x at gmail.com (Nazmul Hassan)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 08:34:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <b05cec1c0702110534q4525afd8l750e14c3552b6c8d@mail.gmail.com>

well you can always build on the word filters you had there......with the
http:// and what not. have the form check for urls and words.
and, you could implement a sort of email block, for those spamers that stick
to one email.

On 2/11/07, Urb LeJeune <urb at e-government.com> wrote:
>
>  It seem that any form on a web site attracts morons who capricious submit
> to these forms. I'm not talking about just hitting the submit button but
> rather
> a fully filled out form.
>
> In some cases, such as a guest book, their action is misguided but
> understandable. They want to advertise the sites selling little blue
> pills and stock recommendations. However, is some cases they make
> no sense at all such as submitting a bogus email address to a
> newsletter subscription form.
>
> I've done a few things, like disqualifying the submission of a guest book
> entry containg "http:// <http:///>" that have been fairly effective. This
> doesn't
> work for subscription type forms. These are especially annoying because
> they eventually require the time to manually unsubscribe these entries.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions other then captcha.
>
> Thanks
>
> Urb
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
(?`?._.?[ ' Nazmul Hassan ' ]?._.???)
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From lists at silmail.com  Sun Feb 11 08:35:22 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:05:22 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702110535u788a66afs4eafd74ddf01c6b7@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Does anyone have any suggestions other then captcha.
>
> I do think partial use of  email address validations using SMTP connect
would restrict a lot of these bogus mail subscriptions. you should find a
neat article here http://www.zend.com/zend/spotlight/ev12apr.php

-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
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From ps at sun-code.com  Sun Feb 11 10:07:26 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:07:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <6431a0f40702110535u788a66afs4eafd74ddf01c6b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

The use of the captcha technique has become a type of industry standard.

I have found customers to quickly recognize and endorse this technique. 
The Pro PHP Security guidebook offers an elegant deployment of this
solution. 
Plus, I thought, that email validation(s) by any technique is fraught
with 
delays, failures and spoofing, likely making it too unreliable to use at
this 
potentially important new customer juncture.
 
Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code.com 
Web related services 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Jiju Thomas Mathew
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 8:35 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms






Does anyone have any suggestions other then captcha.



I do think partial use of  email address validations using SMTP connect
would restrict a lot of these bogus mail subscriptions. you should find
a neat article here http://www.zend.com/zend/spotlight/ev12apr.php

-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org  <http://www.php-trivandrum.org> 




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From lists at genoverly.net  Sun Feb 11 11:10:17 2007
From: lists at genoverly.net (michael)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:10:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <6431a0f40702110535u788a66afs4eafd74ddf01c6b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <20070211111017.7439f976@dt.genoverly.com>

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:07:26 -0500
"Peter Sawczynec" <ps at sun-code.com> wrote:

> The use of the captcha technique has become a type of industry
> standard.
> 
> I have found customers to quickly recognize and endorse this
> technique. The Pro PHP Security guidebook offers an elegant
> deployment of this solution. 
> Plus, I thought, that email validation(s) by any technique is fraught
> with 
> delays, failures and spoofing, likely making it too unreliable to use
> at this 
> potentially important new customer juncture.
>  
> Warmest regards, 
>  
> Peter Sawczynec 
> Technology Dir.
> Sun-code.com 
> Web related services 
> 646.316.3678 
> ps at sun-code.com
>  
>  
>  

Peter has a point.  The increasing use of email servers implementing
grey-listing makes using 'SMTP connect' a bad idea.  The server may not
return what is expected -and- may block your IP as a potential spammer,
if you keep doing it and they are aggressive.

It is not bad to lookup the domain and see if there is an MX record.
That can catch some obvious noodling.  Collecting email bounces and
scripting unsubscribe should be a no-brainer.. and part of a complete
app. 

The best you can do is weigh your security needs and 'customer
experience' against your percieved threat model.. and act accordingly.
Keep in mind; in this constantly escalating war, they *will* win.
Regretably, planning for security against meanies is part of life now.
	a. what attacks are being done?
	b. what is to gain by the attack?
	c. what happens if they 'win'?
	d. do I really need this app.. really?
	e. should I call in somebody who knows what they are doing?
	...
	x. what security plan do I have in place?
	y. what security plan do I NEED in place?
	z. how do I get there?
While not even close to a complete list.. it is a start.

Your threat model appears to be light weight, albeit annoying.  You
make it so easy to fill out the form that a script kiddie enjoys doing
it.  You need to remove that joy so they will move on to other low
hanging fruit.

Captcha is currently popular and very effictive.  But, it must be
*part* of your security plan, not the silver bullet.  Captcha is not
fool proof; there are ways to crack it. If they figure out the
bitmapping of your font, introduce more fonts. It won't stop them, but
may help to slow them down.  In order to collect a large enough
bitmapping, they have to collect a bunch of them.  The firewall or
other rules sets can help to prevent repeated connections.  .. unless
they own a botnet with countless IP's.  

If you have a botnet attacking your guestbook then your threat model is
much different; and needs to be addressed differently.   Otherwise
captcha, combined with other measures, will suit your model.


p.s. to the OP: try not to hijack threads in the future.. and for
everyone else; I'll add a vote to stop top-posting. [grin]

-- 

michael


(this address does not accept public email)



From ramons at gmx.net  Sun Feb 11 11:59:01 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:59:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <20070211111017.7439f976@dt.genoverly.com>
References: <6431a0f40702110535u788a66afs4eafd74ddf01c6b7@mail.gmail.com>	<000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
	<20070211111017.7439f976@dt.genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <45CF4B55.1080207@gmx.net>

michael wrote:

> It is not bad to lookup the domain and see if there is an MX record.
> That can catch some obvious noodling.  Collecting email bounces and
> scripting unsubscribe should be a no-brainer.. and part of a complete
> app. 
> 

Good idea, but I recommend putting in some threshold. It happens that a 
legitimate mail server is bouncing messages for some reasons that are 
out of the powers of the subscriber. I do not know if there is a 
reliable entry in bounced messages, such as "mailbox full" or stuff like 
that. That would allow a more qualified handling.
I'd go with sth like bounces for a span of more than three days. Any 
mail server admin won't take that long to get the mail server going 
again and any other bounce reason not removed after three days (e.g. 
mailbox full) shows that the subscriber is a moron and doesn't deserve 
to be on the list.

David


From tedd at sperling.com  Sun Feb 11 12:44:52 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:44:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <p06240803c1f505e097bc@[192.168.1.102]>

At 10:07 AM -0500 2/11/07, Peter Sawczynec wrote:
>The use of the captcha technique has become a type of industry standard. 
>I have found customers to quickly recognize and endorse this technique. 
>The Pro PHP Security guidebook offers an elegant deployment of this solution.
>Plus, I thought, that email validation(s) by any technique is fraught with
>delays, failures and spoofing, likely making it too unreliable to use at this
>potentially important new customer juncture.
>
>Warmest regards,
>
>Peter Sawczynec

Peter:

While that is true, there are other captcha's to consider, like these:

http://xn--nvg.com/captcha

Cheers,

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From urb at e-government.com  Sun Feb 11 13:14:25 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 13:14:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c1f505e097bc@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
	<p06240803c1f505e097bc@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070211131328.02430528@e-government.com>


>While that is true, there are other captcha's to consider, like these:
>
>http://xn--nvg.com/captcha

         This is slick, however, I would prefer that the letters not be case
sensitive. I received two failures before I realized what was happening.

Urb




From rolan at omnistep.com  Sun Feb 11 15:44:46 2007
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:44:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c1f505e097bc@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
	<p06240803c1f505e097bc@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <45CF803E.6070903@omnistep.com>

Interesting, that URL fails to open in Opera browser. "invalid URL" error.

~Rolan

tedd wrote:
> At 10:07 AM -0500 2/11/07, Peter Sawczynec wrote:
>> The use of the captcha technique has become a type of industry 
>> standard. I have found customers to quickly recognize and endorse 
>> this technique. The Pro PHP Security guidebook offers an elegant 
>> deployment of this solution.
>> Plus, I thought, that email validation(s) by any technique is fraught 
>> with
>> delays, failures and spoofing, likely making it too unreliable to use 
>> at this
>> potentially important new customer juncture.
>>
>> Warmest regards,
>>
>> Peter Sawczynec
>
> Peter:
>
> While that is true, there are other captcha's to consider, like these:
>
> http://xn--nvg.com/captcha
>
> Cheers,
>
> tedd


From arzala at gmail.com  Sun Feb 11 22:57:24 2007
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:27:24 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <200702120927.24227.arzala@gmail.com>

On Sunday 11 February 2007 20:37, Peter Sawczynec wrote:
> The use of the captcha technique has become a type of industry standard.

"Industry standard" is very important thing to be considered. Basically one 
would not use non-industry standards too much. However certain changes are 
allowed. Certain captchas can be like small question-answers i.e ( 5 + 5 - 7 
= ?). These question should not be complex so that it will require lot of 
thinking or calculation at user end :). Just simple question like this are 
enough. You can create standard 100 questions like this and use them 
randomly. And then there are other capchas suggested by Tedd.

For e-mail validations etc. I recommend "check your mail box and click link 
mentioned in email" because even if online validation could work properly, it 
doesn't guarantee that the email address filled in by user really belongs to 
him/her no matter whether it is correct or not. However combination of both 
techniques is also good where 1st you will try to check whether input email 
address exists or not. If not then alert user from there and no need to send 
confirmation email. But if exists then send confirmation email.

Still sending only confirmation email is best technique but online validation 
is helpful specially where you need to check whether any given email address 
is real or not.

Anirudh Zala

(30% of Internet traffic 
is wasted by unnecessary 
tabs and spaces.)

>
> I have found customers to quickly recognize and endorse this technique.
> The Pro PHP Security guidebook offers an elegant deployment of this
> solution.
> Plus, I thought, that email validation(s) by any technique is fraught
> with
> delays, failures and spoofing, likely making it too unreliable to use at
> this
> potentially important new customer juncture.
>
> Warmest regards,
>
> Peter Sawczynec
> Technology Dir.
> Sun-code.com
> Web related services
> 646.316.3678
> ps at sun-code.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Jiju Thomas Mathew
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 8:35 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
>
>>
> Does anyone have any suggestions other then captcha.
>
> I do think partial use of  email address validations using SMTP connect
> would restrict a lot of these bogus mail subscriptions. you should find
> a neat article here http://www.zend.com/zend/spotlight/ev12apr.php

-- 


From tedd at sperling.com  Mon Feb 12 08:01:02 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 08:01:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45CF803E.6070903@omnistep.com>
References: <000f01c74dee$5d841180$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
	<p06240803c1f505e097bc@[192.168.1.102]> <45CF803E.6070903@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c1f6148488d4@[192.168.0.100]>

At 3:44 PM -0500 2/11/07, Rolan Yang wrote:
>Interesting, that URL fails to open in Opera browser. "invalid URL" error.
>
>~Rolan


There are differences in Browsers with respect to handling and 
displaying multilingual domains. Some older Opera's fail while Opera 
9 for Win and Safari for Mac work correctly.

If you can't upgrade, let me know and I'll move the demo to an 
"English" domain.

Cheers,

tedd

===

>
>tedd wrote:
>>At 10:07 AM -0500 2/11/07, Peter Sawczynec wrote:
>>>The use of the captcha technique has become a type of industry 
>>>standard. I have found customers to quickly recognize and endorse 
>>>this technique. The Pro PHP Security guidebook offers an elegant 
>>>deployment of this solution.
>>>Plus, I thought, that email validation(s) by any technique is fraught with
>>>delays, failures and spoofing, likely making it too unreliable to 
>>>use at this
>>>potentially important new customer juncture.
>>>
>>>Warmest regards,
>>>
>>>Peter Sawczynec
>>
>>Peter:
>>
>>While that is true, there are other captcha's to consider, like these:
>>
>>http://xn--nvg.com/captcha
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>tedd
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From smanes at magpie.com  Mon Feb 12 09:17:38 2007
From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:17:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <45D07702.2010206@magpie.com>

Urb LeJeune wrote:
> I've done a few things, like disqualifying the submission of a guest book
> entry containg "http:// <http:///>" that have been fairly effective. 
> This doesn't
> work for subscription type forms. These are especially annoying because
> they eventually require the time to manually unsubscribe these entries.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions other then captcha.

There's Akismet, which was developed to kill comment and trackback spam 
for blogs but which the developer claims is adaptable to other applications:

http://akismet.com/faq/

I have no idea how well it works.  Haven't tried it.





From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Mon Feb 12 09:49:05 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:49:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D07702.2010206@magpie.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D07702.2010206@magpie.com>
Message-ID: <1171291746.5089.8.camel@proberts>

I use it on my blogs and it works very well. 

On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 09:17 -0500, Steve Manes wrote:

> Urb LeJeune wrote:
> > I've done a few things, like disqualifying the submission of a guest book
> > entry containg "http:// <http:///>" that have been fairly effective. 
> > This doesn't
> > work for subscription type forms. These are especially annoying because
> > they eventually require the time to manually unsubscribe these entries.
> > 
> > Does anyone have any suggestions other then captcha.
> 
> There's Akismet, which was developed to kill comment and trackback spam 
> for blogs but which the developer claims is adaptable to other applications:
> 
> http://akismet.com/faq/
> 
> I have no idea how well it works.  Haven't tried it.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From agfische at email.smith.edu  Mon Feb 12 10:35:37 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:35:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Strange chars coming from forms
Message-ID: <EA4AC175-69C5-4BFA-8D9C-83CE5FD9E40C@email.smith.edu>

I notice some funny characters occasionally when some of my web forms  
are submitted.  Examples include stuff like:

Somebody submitted "word" and I get ?word?
Somebody submitted time and I get t! me

Not sure what would cause this?  The form submissions are mostly from  
within the U.S., so I don't think it's a foreign keyboard translation  
problem.

Any functions I can run my form fields though that would help with  
this problem?  Any idea what could be causing this problem?

Thanks,

-Aaron



From cmerlo at ncc.edu  Mon Feb 12 10:51:43 2007
From: cmerlo at ncc.edu (Christopher R. Merlo)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:51:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Strange chars coming from forms
In-Reply-To: <EA4AC175-69C5-4BFA-8D9C-83CE5FD9E40C@email.smith.edu>
References: <EA4AC175-69C5-4BFA-8D9C-83CE5FD9E40C@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <946586480702120751y67e09925p4850d92b5d7cdb4e@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/12/07, Aaron Fischer <agfische at email.smith.edu> wrote:
>
> I notice some funny characters occasionally when some of my web forms
> are submitted.  Examples include stuff like:
>
> Somebody submitted "word" and I get ?word?


This example in particular makes me think that maybe someone is copying and
pasting from, say, Word, with "smart" quotes.

Somebody submitted time and I get t! me


That seems like the kind of thing (and I'm spitballing here) you might get
from copying text from a PDF/PS document made with LaTeX, where the "ti"
form a digraph.  You might get the same thing from words like "if".

HTH.
-c
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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Mon Feb 12 11:08:39 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:08:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690702120808x3b9b51d6lcc666d133c8eae8@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/11/07, Urb LeJeune <urb at e-government.com> wrote:
>
>  It seem that any form on a web site attracts morons who capricious submit
>  to these forms. I'm not talking about just hitting the submit button but
> rather
>  a fully filled out form.

As some have mentioned, Akismet is a good solution to this, though
people have had problems with false positives, and nothing is more
annoying to a potential customer than having their carefully-crafted
comment blocked as spam.

I'm leaning toward tarpitting as a means of controlling comment spam,
as it seems to be one of the only good ways to control email spam. Too
many form submissions from one IP and suddenly service to that IP
slows to a crawl. Devil is in the details, of course, so if anyone
knows of any implementations of this, please let us know.

For verifying email addresses, checking for MX record is okay but
ineffective if spammer uses any of the millions of domains with valid
mail exchangers. Checking email address using SMTP will fail more
often than not, because these days no reputable mail service will
divulge the existence of a valid account. They respond to these
requests with "maybe the account exists, maybe not, just send the
message and we'll let you know later" messages.

The only way to prove that an email address is valid is to send a
sufficiently hard-to-guess token and have the user check her mail and
give it back to you.


-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From lists at silmail.com  Mon Feb 12 12:00:18 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:30:18 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702120808x3b9b51d6lcc666d133c8eae8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<b76252690702120808x3b9b51d6lcc666d133c8eae8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702120900m5efbe185l61a604fa8d9efd78@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

I have not yet experimented with this, but could not we make sure the form
was picked from our server, and a reasonable time is elapsed before the
submission comes through and that the form is displayed to the user either
using encoded javascript or by using a flash swf. The input elements should
be of random names..

I do agree that these are not industry standards.. even then it is our
website, and we have to pay for it.. then why not we initiate the Industry
standard ?

Regards
-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
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From rolan at omnistep.com  Mon Feb 12 12:07:52 2007
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:07:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>

Ok, here's a totally off the wall idea to help thwart the robots from 
even getting into the submission script. It is complex though:

1. You create a encrypted string based on a secret key combined with 
something like the current datetime, then split it in half.

2. Half of that string is pasted into your form as a hidden variable. 
The other half is hidden in an obfuscated javascript function which is 
called when you click on the submit button. For added "protection", the 
javascript function can even be one of those self-decrypting ones (they 
used to be common with those malicious browser-exploit worms).

3. When the user clicks "submit", your form script receives the the 
hidden value and the javascript decrypted value, pieces it together, 
decrypts it with the private key, and checks to make sure the date is 
valid. If the string fails to decrypt then we know it's a bot. Otherwise 
we have a little more assurance that it's a browser submitting the data.

You may be thinking, well, some bots are pretty smart and have a 
javascript engine built in. Ok, here's another layer of deception 
throwing css into the mix:

You do above steps 1 and 2 the same.
The first half of the encrypted string should be saved locally on the 
server or stored in a database (I'll explain why in a minute).
Your form page will then have a function that dynamically generates 
random css code like this:

<style type="text/css">
aerguaehrgaer {display:none;}
cvoazsdofddf  {display:inline;}
htergoergjarg  {display:none;}
joregpokerge  {display:none;}
g493t344kt4  {display:none;}
</style>

Then put a bunch of submit buttons at the bottom of your form:
<input type="submit" class="aerguaehrgaer" 
onSubmit="selfdecrypt('eg834nt9ejwegwe');">
<input type="submit" class="cvoazsdofddf" 
onSubmit="selfdecrypt('s8934t0w340t934t34q');">
<input type="submit" class="htergoergjarg" 
onSubmit="selfdecrypt('mr90238t340834t3');">
<input type="submit" class="joregpokerge" 
onSubmit="selfdecrypt('d83ng0erg34t0834');">
<input type="submit" class="g493t344kt4" 
onSubmit="selfdecrypt('j9340tgi340we0jerg');">

The spam robot won't know which submit button to push, but a human will 
only see one button because the css is hiding the rest.

Well, if I was a stubborn inconsiderate javascript interpreting spam 
bot, I would just submit the same form 5 (or  however many) times trying 
every submit button.
That is why when we receive the form submission,  we check for the first 
half of the encrypted string in our locally stored list. After a failed 
try, the string should be removed from the local list or database and 
any successive attempts will return as failed.

The method above provides a decent amount spam-bot deterrence while 
still presenting a userfriendly captcha-less form.

Good luck,
Rolan










From shiflett at php.net  Mon Feb 12 12:40:13 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:40:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <45D0A67D.2020802@php.net>

Rolan Yang wrote:
> The spam robot won't know which submit button to push, but a human
> will only see one button because the css is hiding the rest.

This is similar to a technique already being used, where fake form
fields are present, and they're hidden from the interface. Most robots
aren't clever enough to notice, so they'll provide information in the
fields, giving you a reason to drop the request.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Mon Feb 12 18:08:51 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:08:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/12/07, Rolan Yang <rolan at omnistep.com> wrote:
> Ok, here's a totally off the wall idea to help thwart the robots from
> even getting into the submission script. It is complex though:
>
> 1. You create a encrypted string based on a secret key combined with
> something like the current datetime, then split it in half.
> [etc]

While no doubt effective, that's a lot of work, and by no means
invulnerable. I'm pretty sure it could be defeated using Firefox + a
Greasemonkey script.

It could also be defeated using offshore labor, which we might see
more of in the next few years. How many comments-per-hour can be
submitted by a worker in China making $10/day? How many more if the
worker knows Javascript?

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From shiflett at php.net  Mon Feb 12 18:29:15 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:29:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>

Chris Snyder wrote:
> It could also be defeated using offshore labor, which we might
> see more of in the next few years. How many comments-per-hour
> can be submitted by a worker in China making $10/day? How many
> more if the worker knows Javascript?

Good point. There's also the "porn attack" that has been used for years:

1. Request the form with the CAPTCHA you want to solve.

2. On a high-traffic page, promise free porn (representative of anything
desired, although porn was the actual first use case) in exchange for
the solution to the CAPTCHA from Step 1.

3. Submit the form from Step 1, along with the CAPTCHA solution obtained
in Step 2.

There's also PWNtcha:

http://sam.zoy.org/pwntcha/

I hate CAPTCHAs anyway. :-)

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Mon Feb 12 18:50:50 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:50:50 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
Message-ID: <b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/12/07, Chris Shiflett <shiflett at php.net> wrote:
> There's also the "porn attack" that has been used for years:
>
> 1. Request the form with the CAPTCHA you want to solve.
>
> 2. On a high-traffic page, promise free porn (representative of anything
> desired, although porn was the actual first use case) in exchange for
> the solution to the CAPTCHA from Step 1.
>
> 3. Submit the form from Step 1, along with the CAPTCHA solution obtained
> in Step 2.

I hadn't considered this before, but if you think about the problem in
terms of volume-per-hour, the captcha approach becomes preferable
again. The answer to a good captcha can't be scripted, so there's a
built-in rate limit. Even if you hire humans to decipher them, the
answer has to be manually typed.

Captchas are vulnerable to the porn-in-the-middle attack, but you
would have to have some really hot porn in order to post large volumes
of spam across millions of sites. Interesting...

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From shiflett at php.net  Mon Feb 12 19:02:53 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:02:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D1002D.2040904@php.net>

Chris Snyder wrote:
> Captchas are vulnerable to the porn-in-the-middle attack, but
> you would have to have some really hot porn in order to post
> large volumes of spam across millions of sites.

You'd just need enough traffic to teach a tool like PWNtcha, and that's
only necessary for unique CAPTCHAs. Existing libraries are probably
already covered.

Employing a CAPTCHA raises the bar, but there are less annoying ways to
do that. Can you tell I'm not a fan? :-)

Before anyone notes my hypocrisy, my blog requires people to indicate my
first name in order to post a comment, and although I might adopt a
better approach, at least this approach is accessible.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From tedd at sperling.com  Tue Feb 13 12:05:45 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:05:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D1002D.2040904@php.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net>
Message-ID: <p06240803c1f79dab85ba@[192.168.1.102]>

At 7:02 PM -0500 2/12/07, Chris Shiflett wrote:
>Chris Snyder wrote:
>>  Captchas are vulnerable to the porn-in-the-middle attack, but
>>  you would have to have some really hot porn in order to post
>>  large volumes of spam across millions of sites.
>
>You'd just need enough traffic to teach a tool like PWNtcha, and that's
>only necessary for unique CAPTCHAs. Existing libraries are probably
>already covered.
>
>Employing a CAPTCHA raises the bar, but there are less annoying ways to
>do that. Can you tell I'm not a fan? :-)
>
>Before anyone notes my hypocrisy, my blog requires people to indicate my
>first name in order to post a comment, and although I might adopt a
>better approach, at least this approach is accessible.
>
>Chris

Chris:

That reminds me of a protection scheme I cam across that said "Please 
enter the name of this Blog" and I couldn't find it anywhere. Now, 
that was exclusive.

I dislike CAPTCHA's as well, but am trying to come up with some 
alternate solutions, such as:

http://xn--nvg.com/captcha

Granted, they are not prefect -- but they do offer more 
accessibility. The audio solution is currently being evaluated by a 
vision impaired group and I'm waiting approval. If I receive 
approval, then I plan to make the code available for free from my 
site.

I am interested in your opinion.

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From shiflett at php.net  Tue Feb 13 12:22:39 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:22:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c1f79dab85ba@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <p06240803c1f79dab85ba@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net>

Tedd Sperling wrote:
> I dislike CAPTCHA's as well, but am trying to come up with some
> alternate solutions, such as:
> 
> http://xn--nvg.com/captcha
> 
> Granted, they are not prefect -- but they do offer more
> accessibility. The audio solution is currently being evaluated
> by a vision impaired group and I'm waiting approval. If I receive
> approval, then I plan to make the code available for free from my
> site.
> 
> I am interested in your opinion.

I like your solution, primarily because you're trying to be accessible,
but I'm not sure how someone who needs to use the audio CAPTCHA can find
it. Can you explain what a screen reader would do with this?

<h2>Please click the accessibility icon.</h2>
<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" name="movie"
data="access.swf" style="width: 30px; height: 30px;">
<param name="movie" value="access.swf">
</object>

I'm no accessibility expert, but it is a topic that I'm very interested
in. In fact, maybe someone could give a talk on accessibility?

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Tue Feb 13 13:12:14 2007
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:12:14 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net>
	<p06240803c1f79dab85ba@[192.168.1.102]> <45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net>
Message-ID: <45D1FF7E.2060901@polymerdb.org>

Chris Shiflett wrote:
> Tedd Sperling wrote:
> 
>>The audio solution is currently being evaluated
>>by a vision impaired group and I'm waiting approval. If I receive
>>approval, then I plan to make the code available for free from my
>>site.
>>
>>I am interested in your opinion.

Couldn't the audio captcha be parsed by consumer-level voice recognition 
software?

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Tue Feb 13 13:37:26 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:37:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D1002D.2040904@php.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net>
Message-ID: <45D20566.2040400@phpwerx.net>

Chris Shiflett wrote:
> Before anyone notes my hypocrisy, my blog requires people to indicate my
> first name in order to post a comment, and although I might adopt a
> better approach, at least this approach is accessible.

A simple, extensible and accessible continuation of this approach might
be implemented as follows:

Create a table with 4 columns:

challenge_id
questions
answer_match
times_used

This table would contain a list of questions, along with a preg_match
pattern for acceptable answers, and a count of how many times the
question has been used.

Select one of the x (a number greater than the maximum new challenges
added at any one time) least-used questions from the table at random and
present it to the user along with a text box for their answer.  Store
the challenge_id in the session.

When the form is submitted, check the answer against the regex and allow
or deny access as required.

Optionally, you could store the number of failed attempts and eliminate
questions which yield too many failures.  This would automatically
remove questions that are either too difficult for the average user, or
are getting hammered by spammers.

In this way it would be trivial to add new or more difficult challenges,
and if someone is hammering on the form they will continually get new
questions from the pool.

I haven't needed to implement this myself, but it does seem like
question/answer based challenges are a good approach.  This is mostly
because they don't suffer from the class breaks inherent in most
image-based captcha systems (once you crack the captcha algorithm you
can solve any captcha using that system), assuming you take the time to
add some questions which are unique to the individual instance of the
system.  And of course, they are fully accessible.

Dan


From selyah1 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 13 17:18:04 2007
From: selyah1 at yahoo.com (selyah)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:18:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] seperating files
Message-ID: <95245.63106.qm@web30805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello PHP talk:
I a very new to PHP and need assistance with an issue.  I am creating a script to reads a list of files (mp3's) from a folder and places them into an array to be separated into different genres (rock, allternatives, hiphop, etc).  My issues how do I go about getting the files after they have being read, to be place into the genre per their description. For example :music/instrumental/rock/trackname.mp3. 
I found the readdir function which helped a great deal in placing them into the array, I just heed a function that does the second part.  Your help would be very appreciated.  Thank you
selyah
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From ben at projectskyline.com  Tue Feb 13 17:24:01 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:24:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] seperating files
References: <95245.63106.qm@web30805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002501c74fbd$a99cfe80$6501a8c0@gamebox>

Hello, 

So you are creating directories for each genre and want to move the file into that genre?

If not, you have to create the target directory, check out:
http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.mkdir.php

You can use http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.rename.php
to move the file from its current location, say "music/track.mp3" to
"music/instrumental/rock/track.mp3".

- Ben
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: selyah 
  To: talk at lists.nyphp.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:18 PM
  Subject: [nycphp-talk] seperating files


  Hello PHP talk:
  I a very new to PHP and need assistance with an issue.  I am creating a script to reads a list of files (mp3's) from a folder and places them into an array to be separated into different genres (rock, allternatives, hiphop, etc).  My issues how do I go about getting the files after they have being read, to be place into the genre per their description. For example :music/instrumental/rock
  /trackname.mp3. 
  I found the readdir function which helped a great deal in placing them into the array, I just heed a function that does the second part.  Your help would be very appreciated.  Thank you
  selyah


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From dirn at dirnonline.com  Tue Feb 13 18:25:37 2007
From: dirn at dirnonline.com (Andy Dirnberger)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:25:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] seperating files
In-Reply-To: <95245.63106.qm@web30805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <95245.63106.qm@web30805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <006901c74fc6$45837330$6301a8c0@dirnpc>

Check out: http://pear.php.net/package/MP3_ID
________________________________________
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of selyah
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:18 PM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: [nycphp-talk] seperating files

Hello PHP talk:
I a very new to PHP and need assistance with an issue.? I am creating a
script to reads a list of files (mp3's) from a folder and places them into
an array to be separated into different genres (rock, allternatives, hiphop,
etc).? My issues how do I go about getting the files after they have being
read, to be place into the genre per their description. For example
:music/instrumental/rock
/trackname.mp3. 
I found the readdir function which helped a great deal in placing them into
the array, I just heed a function that does the second part.? Your help
would be very appreciated.? Thank you
selyah



From selyah1 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 13 18:55:27 2007
From: selyah1 at yahoo.com (selyah)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:55:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] seperating files
In-Reply-To: <002501c74fbd$a99cfe80$6501a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <403327.68910.qm@web30802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks for your suggestion, I will try it out and let you know how it works

"Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline)" <ben at projectskyline.com> wrote:       Hello, 
  
 So you are creating directories for each genre and  want to move the file into that genre?
  
 If not, you have to create the target directory,  check out:
 http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.mkdir.php
  
 You can use http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.rename.php
 to move the file from its current location, say  "music/track.mp3" to
 "music/instrumental/rock/track.mp3".
  
 - Ben
    ----- Original Message ----- 
   From:    selyah 
   To: talk at lists.nyphp.org 
   Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:18    PM
   Subject: [nycphp-talk] seperating    files
   

Hello PHP talk:
I a very new to PHP and need assistance with    an issue.  I am creating a script to reads a list of files (mp3's) from a    folder and places them into an array to be separated into different genres    (rock, allternatives, hiphop, etc).  My issues how do I go about getting    the files after they have being read, to be place into the genre per their    description. For example :music/instrumental/rock   /trackname.mp3. 
I found the readdir function which    helped a great deal in placing them into the array, I just heed a function    that does the second part.  Your help would be very appreciated.     Thank you
selyah
      

---------------------------------
    
_______________________________________________
New York PHP    Community Talk Mailing    List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006    Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation    in New York  PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

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http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
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From selyah1 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 13 18:55:53 2007
From: selyah1 at yahoo.com (selyah)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:55:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] seperating files
In-Reply-To: <006901c74fc6$45837330$6301a8c0@dirnpc>
Message-ID: <941493.1083.qm@web30801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks for your suggestion, I will try it out and let you know how it works

Andy Dirnberger <dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote: Check out: http://pear.php.net/package/MP3_ID
________________________________________
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of selyah
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:18 PM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: [nycphp-talk] seperating files

Hello PHP talk:
I a very new to PHP and need assistance with an issue.  I am creating a
script to reads a list of files (mp3's) from a folder and places them into
an array to be separated into different genres (rock, allternatives, hiphop,
etc).  My issues how do I go about getting the files after they have being
read, to be place into the genre per their description. For example
:music/instrumental/rock
/trackname.mp3. 
I found the readdir function which helped a great deal in placing them into
the array, I just heed a function that does the second part.  Your help
would be very appreciated.  Thank you
selyah

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From rolan at omnistep.com  Tue Feb 13 21:33:41 2007
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:33:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net>
	<p06240803c1f79dab85ba@[192.168.1.102]> <45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net>
Message-ID: <45D27505.5060205@omnistep.com>

Chris Shiflett wrote:
>
> I like your solution, primarily because you're trying to be accessible,
> but I'm not sure how someone who needs to use the audio CAPTCHA can find
> it. Can you explain what a screen reader would do with this?
>
> <h2>Please click the accessibility icon.</h2>
> <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" name="movie"
> data="access.swf" style="width: 30px; height: 30px;">
> <param name="movie" value="access.swf">
> </object>
>
> I'm no accessibility expert, but it is a topic that I'm very interested
> in. In fact, maybe someone could give a talk on accessibility?
>
> Chris
>
>   
One site (I think it was joomlatemplates) had a visual captcha form 
which I was simply not able to decode even after multiple tries. They 
did have the audio option also, which I was the only way I could 
complete the registration.

One of the most embarrassing captcha schemes I had ever seen was on the 
American Airlines website. The script must have been broken because it 
was failing on every legitimate attempt. I let a friend of mine try a 
few times when he noticed that the words were repeating. As it turns 
out, there were only 13 static gif images used in the rotation, and the 
asp script would simply choose a random captcha filename to include in 
the page. Doh!!!

~Rolan


From support at dailytechnology.net  Wed Feb 14 10:19:09 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:19:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code
Message-ID: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>

A lot of the books and other material that I've been reading talk about
database abstraction - developing your application so that you can use
different database backends without significant (or maybe any) changes to
your code. Pear::DB seems to really do a good job with this. However...

In the past, I've always used MySQL or Oracle, but mostly MySQL. Each SQL
distribution has its own peculiar ways of doing some things, and I know that
using some of the MySQL functions makes the code far easier to write and
also optimizes the speed of the query.

So my question boils down to this: how does one balance writing code that
works regardless of the backend and still keep things optimized for speed
and clarity? Are there any generalized tips that any of you can share from
your experiences?
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From tboyden at supercoups.com  Wed Feb 14 11:10:16 2007
From: tboyden at supercoups.com (Timothy Boyden)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:10:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code
In-Reply-To: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A07D2ACA@greenmonster.supercoups.local>

>From my experience the answer is "it depends".
 
If you use the PHP ODBC functions, you'll pretty much be able to
communicate with any database that supports ODBC access without having
to change your code. However you will be restricted to the basic ODBC
functions and database specific optimizations and features will be
unavailable to you.
 
However another approach depending on how much time your willing to put
into it would be to setup your project in a modularized way such that
with a simple configuration change (either via a database or a flat
file) you can direct your application to call pre-defined database
functions based on the configuration setting. So for a MySQL database
you set the configuration to "MySQL" and when your app calls for a
database function it is directed to the specific PHP MySQL database
functions. Obviously this would require writing a lot more code as you'd
have to do this for each type of database you want to support, but if
done properly once you do it you can re-use it for any project you
require it for.
 
I haven't researched it myself, but I'm sure that there are probably
frameworks out there that take care of that functionality for you, but
for me most of them have a lot of features I don't need or have a steep
learning curve for the amount of time I'm willing to put into them.
YMMV.
 
I know my response is vague at best, but then again this is a fairly
common subject that is best answered by you doing a little research via
Google and testing out some of the available solutions to see what works
best for you.
 
-Tim

________________________________

From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Brian Dailey
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:19 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code


A lot of the books and other material that I've been reading talk about
database abstraction - developing your application so that you can use
different database backends without significant (or maybe any) changes
to your code. Pear::DB seems to really do a good job with this.
However...

In the past, I've always used MySQL or Oracle, but mostly MySQL. Each
SQL distribution has its own peculiar ways of doing some things, and I
know that using some of the MySQL functions makes the code far easier to
write and also optimizes the speed of the query. 

So my question boils down to this: how does one balance writing code
that works regardless of the backend and still keep things optimized for
speed and clarity? Are there any generalized tips that any of you can
share from your experiences? 

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From ben at projectskyline.com  Wed Feb 14 11:49:35 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:49:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
Message-ID: <004a01c75058$1bd2ea60$6501a8c0@gamebox>

Hello all, 

I know this is a questions that has been covered before, so I am hoping someone can point me to an URL or white paper.

I'm looking to build something similiar to shopzilla.com (w/out the comparision mechanism). An e-commerce site w/the ability for my client to update content, 
post new images and add items to the inventory.

I'm looking for a solution in php/mysql. 

Also, if anyone is interested in getting involved in this project I may need outside
expertise. This would be my firm's first ecommerce site. Please respond off list if 
interested.

Thanks, 

- Ben
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From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Wed Feb 14 11:59:30 2007
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:59:30 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code
In-Reply-To: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D33FF2.90400@polymerdb.org>

Brian Dailey wrote:
> So my question boils down to this: how does one balance writing code 
> that works regardless of the backend and still keep things optimized 
> for speed and clarity? Are there any generalized tips that any of you 
> can share from your experiences? 
Don't forget to ask how portable your code *needs* to be.  In the 
beginning I spent a lot of energy being concerned about this because I'd 
heard it was important, but later I realized that many of my projects 
are proprietary, not for general distribution, meaning that the chance 
of the database server changing is relatively small, and therefor 
justifying code that takes advantage of a particular db engine.  A 
couple of my projects have been released as Open Source, and wide 
adoption is a priority; therefore, for those projects, I'm willing to 
accept a slight decrease in performance in exchange for allowing the end 
user more flexibility in the choice of db.

- Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
Polymer (http://polymerdb.org)
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)



From ramons at gmx.net  Wed Feb 14 12:07:22 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:07:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code
In-Reply-To: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D341CA.2000305@gmx.net>

Brian Dailey wrote:
> A lot of the books and other material that I've been reading talk about 
> database abstraction - developing your application so that you can use 
> different database backends without significant (or maybe any) changes 
> to your code. Pear::DB seems to really do a good job with this. However...
> 
> In the past, I've always used MySQL or Oracle, but mostly MySQL. Each 
> SQL distribution has its own peculiar ways of doing some things, and I 
> know that using some of the MySQL functions makes the code far easier to 
> write and also optimizes the speed of the query.
> 
> So my question boils down to this: how does one balance writing code 
> that works regardless of the backend and still keep things optimized for 
> speed and clarity? Are there any generalized tips that any of you can 
> share from your experiences?
> 

I thought about doing that for one of my small projects, but then 
decided to make it blatantly ignorant to anything non-MySQL. My app 
doesn't talk to anything else other than its own tables and the expected 
  db traffic is easily handled with an off-the-shelf MySQL configuration.

The question to ask is if there is any circumstance where it is likely 
that any other db backend is used other than the one of choice?
It also depends on how complicated the db access is. Getting some simple 
inserts, updates, and selects to work for several db backends is 
probably much easier than the real difficult stuff.

David


From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Feb 14 12:55:09 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:55:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <p06240803c1f79dab85ba@[192.168.1.102]>
	<45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net>
Message-ID: <p06240809c1f8fa1f34ce@[192.168.1.102]>

At 12:22 PM -0500 2/13/07, Chris Shiflett wrote:
>Tedd Sperling wrote:
>>  I dislike CAPTCHA's as well, but am trying to come up with some
>>  alternate solutions, such as:
>>
>>  http://xn--nvg.com/captcha
>>
>>  Granted, they are not prefect -- but they do offer more
>>  accessibility. The audio solution is currently being evaluated
>>  by a vision impaired group and I'm waiting approval. If I receive
>>  approval, then I plan to make the code available for free from my
>>  site.
>>
>>  I am interested in your opinion.
>
>I like your solution, primarily because you're trying to be accessible,
>but I'm not sure how someone who needs to use the audio CAPTCHA can find
>it. Can you explain what a screen reader would do with this?
>
><h2>Please click the accessibility icon.</h2>
><object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" name="movie"
>data="access.swf" style="width: 30px; height: 30px;">
><param name="movie" value="access.swf">
></object>

Chris:

No, I can't explain what a screen reader would do with it. However, 
if someone could explain to me what a screen-reader/user combination 
expects, then I probably can write the code.

I'm just trying to understand. Sure, I can close my eyes and try it 
(like some of the accessibility movement have told me), but I don't 
have the hardware, software, and training to understand how blind 
users adapt to the net.

It seems that every time I come up with a CAPTCHA that is a bit more 
accessible, I have very vocal members of the accessibility movement 
telling me "Think about it!" without discussing what's wrong. It's as 
if CAPTCHA's are to be shot on site regardless. Maybe if we changed 
the name to something more politically correct... oh, never mind, 
I've gotten into trouble before by thinking that way.

In any event, if someone would take the time to explain what's 
needed, maybe I can help.

Cheers,

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Feb 14 13:02:43 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:02:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D20566.2040400@phpwerx.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <45D20566.2040400@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <p0624080bc1f8fdd01250@[192.168.1.102]>

At 1:37 PM -0500 2/13/07, Dan Cech wrote:
>Chris Shiflett wrote:
>>  Before anyone notes my hypocrisy, my blog requires people to indicate my
>>  first name in order to post a comment, and although I might adopt a
>  > better approach, at least this approach is accessible.
>
>I haven't needed to implement this myself, but it does seem like
>question/answer based challenges are a good approach.  This is mostly
>because they don't suffer from the class breaks inherent in most
>image-based captcha systems (once you crack the captcha algorithm you
>can solve any captcha using that system), assuming you take the time to
>add some questions which are unique to the individual instance of the
>system.  And of course, they are fully accessible.

Dan:

I've tried that scheme before, but it was shot down by the 
accessibility movement. No matter how simple the questions, it was 
problematic.

Eric Meyers once had "What's the color of an orange?" for access to 
his site, but then he took off all restrictions. I think it might 
have been too political, but I wouldn't expect him to comment either 
way.

I also developed a scheme that said something like "Pick the third 
letter" (TIMY), but then it didn't deal with the dyslectic very well.

CAPTCHA looks simple, but it's not.

Cheers,

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From anoland at indigente.net  Wed Feb 14 13:46:52 2007
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:46:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Random MySQL question
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I have an obscure MySQL question I hope someone can answer:

I have the following query:
select id, categories from dd_categories where id in (21, 20, 13, 3, 22, 31);

I want category 21 to show up first in the list.
It appears the default order is by id which puts #3 at the front.
I can't order by category to get what I want, because it is in the
middle of the alphabet.

Any help? Thanks.


From shiflett at php.net  Wed Feb 14 14:08:15 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:08:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <p06240809c1f8fa1f34ce@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <p06240803c1f79dab85ba@[192.168.1.102]>
	<45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net> <p06240809c1f8fa1f34ce@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <45D35E1F.1000508@php.net>

Tedd Sperling wrote:
> > Can you explain what a screen reader would do with this?
> >
> > <h2>Please click the accessibility icon.</h2>
> > <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" name="movie"
> > data="access.swf" style="width: 30px; height: 30px;">
> > <param name="movie" value="access.swf">
> > </object>
> 
> No, I can't explain what a screen reader would do with it. However,
> if someone could explain to me what a screen-reader/user combination
> expects, then I probably can write the code.

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to be facetious. I'm curious.

Many accessibility guidelines make a lot of sense to me when I'm looking
at the source. Simple things like labels give software a chance to
communicate important information:

<label for="email">Email</label> <input name="email"...

Visually, this association is easy, but it requires an extra step when
visual interpretation is not an option.

That's why it's not obvious to me how a user knows how to find the
accessibility icon in your example. That doesn't mean it's necessarily
broken; I just want to know for my own education.

> It seems that every time I come up with a CAPTCHA that is a bit more
> accessible, I have very vocal members of the accessibility movement
> telling me "Think about it!" without discussing what's wrong. It's
> as if CAPTCHA's are to be shot on site regardless. Maybe if we
> changed the name to something more politically correct.

It's the approach I'm not particularly fond of, not the name. The name's
clever enough. :-)

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From nyphp at n0p.net  Wed Feb 14 14:12:59 2007
From: nyphp at n0p.net (Flavio daCosta)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:12:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Random MySQL question
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D35F3B.4090900@n0p.net>

On 02/14/2007 01:46 PM, Adrian Noland wrote:
> I have the following query:
> select id, categories from dd_categories where id in (21, 20, 13, 3, 22,
> 31);
> 
> I want category 21 to show up first in the list.

SELECT
	id, categories
FROM
	dd_categories
WHERE
	id IN (21, 20, 13, 3, 22, 31)
ORDER BY
	FIELD(id, 21) DESC, id;


http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/string-functions.html




From shiflett at php.net  Wed Feb 14 14:19:34 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:19:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <p0624080bc1f8fdd01250@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net>
	<45D20566.2040400@phpwerx.net>
	<p0624080bc1f8fdd01250@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <45D360C6.7070805@php.net>

Tedd Sperling wrote:
> I've tried that scheme before, but it was shot down by the
> accessibility movement. No matter how simple the questions, it
> was problematic.

Asking users to enter my first name is no less accessible than asking
them to provide their own. What is this accessibility movement?

> I also developed a scheme that said something like "Pick the
> third letter" (TIMY), but then it didn't deal with the dyslectic
> very well.

That's understandable, but it doesn't really support the "no matter how
simple" claim.

> CAPTCHA looks simple, but it's not.

Tried to register a Yahoo account lately? They don't look so simple to
me. :-)

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Wed Feb 14 14:24:02 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:24:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D360C6.7070805@php.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <45D20566.2040400@phpwerx.net>
	<p0624080bc1f8fdd01250@[192.168.1.102]>  <45D360C6.7070805@php.net>
Message-ID: <1171481043.5089.56.camel@proberts>

I have come across sites where the CAPTCHA is so horridly impossible to
read that I get frustrated and move on. I have 20/20 eye vision, and no
other known handicapps except being a crazed php programmer :) 

On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 14:19 -0500, Chris Shiflett wrote:

> Tedd Sperling wrote:
> > I've tried that scheme before, but it was shot down by the
> > accessibility movement. No matter how simple the questions, it
> > was problematic.
> 
> Asking users to enter my first name is no less accessible than asking
> them to provide their own. What is this accessibility movement?
> 
> > I also developed a scheme that said something like "Pick the
> > third letter" (TIMY), but then it didn't deal with the dyslectic
> > very well.
> 
> That's understandable, but it doesn't really support the "no matter how
> simple" claim.
> 
> > CAPTCHA looks simple, but it's not.
> 
> Tried to register a Yahoo account lately? They don't look so simple to
> me. :-)
> 
> Chris
> 

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Feb 14 14:29:06 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:29:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D35E1F.1000508@php.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <p06240803c1f79dab85ba@[192.168.1.102]>
	<45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net> <p06240809c1f8fa1f34ce@[192.168.1.102]>
	<45D35E1F.1000508@php.net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c1f911ffcd53@[192.168.1.102]>

At 2:08 PM -0500 2/14/07, Chris Shiflett wrote:
>Tedd Sperling wrote:
>>  > Can you explain what a screen reader would do with this?
>>  >
>>  > <h2>Please click the accessibility icon.</h2>
>>  > <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" name="movie"
>>  > data="access.swf" style="width: 30px; height: 30px;">
>>  > <param name="movie" value="access.swf">
>>  > </object>
>>
>>  No, I can't explain what a screen reader would do with it. However,
>>  if someone could explain to me what a screen-reader/user combination
>>  expects, then I probably can write the code.
>
>Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to be facetious. I'm curious.

Just to be clear, I had to look up "facetious".  :-)

No, I realize that you, like me, are trying to understand what's going on.

>That's why it's not obvious to me how a user knows how to find the
>accessibility icon in your example. That doesn't mean it's necessarily
>broken; I just want to know for my own education.

Same here -- I've asked before, but received no answers.

If I my CAPTCHA reads "Please click the accessibility icon" -- how 
does a blind user find the icon and do it? Is my treatment of this 
too simplistic, wrong, misguided, or what?

I'm looking for some direction here.

Cheers,

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From ramons at gmx.net  Wed Feb 14 14:33:53 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:33:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Random MySQL question
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D36421.9030803@gmx.net>

Adrian Noland wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have an obscure MySQL question I hope someone can answer:
> 
> I have the following query:
> select id, categories from dd_categories where id in (21, 20, 13, 3, 22, 
> 31);
> 
> I want category 21 to show up first in the list.
> It appears the default order is by id which puts #3 at the front.
> I can't order by category to get what I want, because it is in the
> middle of the alphabet.
> 
> Any help? Thanks.

There are surely better ways, but I default to sorting the result set in 
code. Since you know what you get from your query by asking for 
something that you also provide, you can easily resort by ID the way you 
want.

David



From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Feb 14 14:35:23 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:35:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <1171481043.5089.56.camel@proberts>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <45D20566.2040400@phpwerx.net>
	<p0624080bc1f8fdd01250@[192.168.1.102]>  <45D360C6.7070805@php.net>
	<1171481043.5089.56.camel@proberts>
Message-ID: <p06240802c1f914c27319@[192.168.1.102]>

At 2:24 PM -0500 2/14/07, Phillip B. Roberts wrote:
>I have come across sites where the CAPTCHA is so horridly impossible 
>to read that I get frustrated and move on. I have 20/20 eye vision, 
>and no other known handicapps except being a crazed php programmer :)

Well, that should be enough reason to keep you out.  :-)

Cheers,

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Wed Feb 14 14:49:01 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:49:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c1f914c27319@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <45D20566.2040400@phpwerx.net>
	<p0624080bc1f8fdd01250@[192.168.1.102]>  <45D360C6.7070805@php.net>
	<1171481043.5089.56.camel@proberts>
	<p06240802c1f914c27319@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <1171482543.5089.58.camel@proberts>

True, very true :) 

On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 14:35 -0500, tedd wrote:

> At 2:24 PM -0500 2/14/07, Phillip B. Roberts wrote:
> >I have come across sites where the CAPTCHA is so horridly impossible 
> >to read that I get frustrated and move on. I have 20/20 eye vision, 
> >and no other known handicapps except being a crazed php programmer :)
> 
> Well, that should be enough reason to keep you out.  :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> tedd

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From ben at projectskyline.com  Wed Feb 14 15:26:33 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:26:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
References: <004a01c75058$1bd2ea60$6501a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <008501c75076$6b3fe120$6501a8c0@gamebox>

Hello Again, 

To be more specific, since this email has generated no responses, 
can anyone elaborate on experiances they have had w/X-Cart?

Reading about it online, it would appear as a pretty good solution.
Again, this is my firms first ecommerce site, so I'd rather not make
too many beginner mistakes.

- Ben
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) 
  To: NYPHP Talk 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:49 AM
  Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions


  Hello all, 

  I know this is a questions that has been covered before, so I am hoping someone can point me to an URL or white paper.

  I'm looking to build something similiar to shopzilla.com (w/out the comparision mechanism). An e-commerce site w/the ability for my client to update content, 
  post new images and add items to the inventory.

  I'm looking for a solution in php/mysql. 

  Also, if anyone is interested in getting involved in this project I may need outside
  expertise. This would be my firm's first ecommerce site. Please respond off list if 
  interested.

  Thanks, 

  - Ben


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

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  http://www.nyphpcon.com

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From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Sat Feb 10 10:52:29 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:52:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT Virtual Hosting
In-Reply-To: <A7B5F0D0-197C-4EB0-96AA-D5660A0E30DA@gubavision.com>
References: <AA081BBF5AEED7118ADF00065B3929D91190DAAB@ny1post.thettgroup.com>
	<45CCC347.1030303@cyberxdesigns.com> <32042-61806@sneakemail.com>
	<A7B5F0D0-197C-4EB0-96AA-D5660A0E30DA@gubavision.com>
Message-ID: <1171122750.5089.2.camel@proberts>

Paul, 

I use VPS's religiously, not to advertise, but GoDaddy VPS's are great.
I have used some from other companies, but haven't been as happy or
impressed. I like the ability to have root access, but not having to
worry so much about the hardware or the cost of a colo'ed or leased
server. I outgrow VPS's a little quicker, but I make my money back on
them much quicker. 

If I am reading your email right though, your issue doesn't have so much
to do with your server, as it does, your blacklisted domains? 

pbr

On Fri, 2007-02-09 at 15:31 -0500, Paul wrote:

> Had an issue this morning where I was trying to configure the contact  
> page for a joomla site I host to email me.  Spent about 2 hours  
> trying to figure out why I wasn't receiving emails.  Seems that  
> comcast had blocked all email coming from my domains because of  
> spamming.    A shared hosting account another user had an open  
> script.  Which made me think how long was I blocked?  What if I  
> wasn't working on my site today?  How many other domains are blocking  
> my email?  So now am thinking VPS any opinions?  Any other  
> solutions.  Recommendations?  Cost is always a factor.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Paul 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Mon Feb 12 09:49:05 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:49:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D07702.2010206@magpie.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D07702.2010206@magpie.com>
Message-ID: <1171291746.5089.8.camel@proberts>

I use it on my blogs and it works very well. 

On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 09:17 -0500, Steve Manes wrote:

> Urb LeJeune wrote:
> > I've done a few things, like disqualifying the submission of a guest book
> > entry containg "http:// <http:///>" that have been fairly effective. 
> > This doesn't
> > work for subscription type forms. These are especially annoying because
> > they eventually require the time to manually unsubscribe these entries.
> > 
> > Does anyone have any suggestions other then captcha.
> 
> There's Akismet, which was developed to kill comment and trackback spam 
> for blogs but which the developer claims is adaptable to other applications:
> 
> http://akismet.com/faq/
> 
> I have no idea how well it works.  Haven't tried it.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Wed Feb 14 15:37:43 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:37:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Random MySQL question
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <66B0D5A5-5F96-40AC-9D9D-A813B05C5D97@jonbaer.com>

Interesting question but this *would* seem to work ...

select id, categories from dd_categories where id in (21, 20, 13, 3,  
22, 31) order by id = 21 desc;

Anyone else test, confirm or answer why?

- Jon

On Feb 14, 2007, at 1:46 PM, Adrian Noland wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have an obscure MySQL question I hope someone can answer:
>
> I have the following query:
> select id, categories from dd_categories where id in (21, 20, 13,  
> 3, 22, 31);
>
> I want category 21 to show up first in the list.
> It appears the default order is by id which puts #3 at the front.
> I can't order by category to get what I want, because it is in the
> middle of the alphabet.
>
> Any help? Thanks.


From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Wed Feb 14 14:24:02 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:24:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D360C6.7070805@php.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <45D20566.2040400@phpwerx.net>
	<p0624080bc1f8fdd01250@[192.168.1.102]>  <45D360C6.7070805@php.net>
Message-ID: <1171481043.5089.56.camel@proberts>

I have come across sites where the CAPTCHA is so horridly impossible to
read that I get frustrated and move on. I have 20/20 eye vision, and no
other known handicapps except being a crazed php programmer :) 

On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 14:19 -0500, Chris Shiflett wrote:

> Tedd Sperling wrote:
> > I've tried that scheme before, but it was shot down by the
> > accessibility movement. No matter how simple the questions, it
> > was problematic.
> 
> Asking users to enter my first name is no less accessible than asking
> them to provide their own. What is this accessibility movement?
> 
> > I also developed a scheme that said something like "Pick the
> > third letter" (TIMY), but then it didn't deal with the dyslectic
> > very well.
> 
> That's understandable, but it doesn't really support the "no matter how
> simple" claim.
> 
> > CAPTCHA looks simple, but it's not.
> 
> Tried to register a Yahoo account lately? They don't look so simple to
> me. :-)
> 
> Chris
> 

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Wed Feb 14 14:49:01 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:49:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c1f914c27319@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<4DF87D29-4EC0-4BE6-83DB-54EC37E9A554@scriptdigital.com>
	<20070210212319.GA14082@panix.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070211075933.022e2bd8@e-government.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <45D20566.2040400@phpwerx.net>
	<p0624080bc1f8fdd01250@[192.168.1.102]>  <45D360C6.7070805@php.net>
	<1171481043.5089.56.camel@proberts>
	<p06240802c1f914c27319@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <1171482543.5089.58.camel@proberts>

True, very true :) 

On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 14:35 -0500, tedd wrote:

> At 2:24 PM -0500 2/14/07, Phillip B. Roberts wrote:
> >I have come across sites where the CAPTCHA is so horridly impossible 
> >to read that I get frustrated and move on. I have 20/20 eye vision, 
> >and no other known handicapps except being a crazed php programmer :)
> 
> Well, that should be enough reason to keep you out.  :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> tedd

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From rotsen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 14 15:38:12 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:38:12 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
Message-ID: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>

Guys,

I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.

any recommendations?

Thanks,

N?stor :-)
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From nyphp at n0p.net  Wed Feb 14 15:51:24 2007
From: nyphp at n0p.net (Flavio daCosta)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:51:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Random MySQL question
In-Reply-To: <66B0D5A5-5F96-40AC-9D9D-A813B05C5D97@jonbaer.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>
	<66B0D5A5-5F96-40AC-9D9D-A813B05C5D97@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <45D3764C.9020804@n0p.net>

On 02/14/2007 03:37 PM, Jon Baer wrote:
> Interesting question but this *would* seem to work ...
> 
> select id, categories from dd_categories where id in (21, 20, 13, 3, 22,
> 31) order by id = 21 desc;
> 
> Anyone else test, confirm or answer why?

id = 21 is evaluated to TRUE or FALSE and then sorted based on that.


From dorgan at optonline.net  Wed Feb 14 15:52:31 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:52:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D3768F.7070106@optonline.net>

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From ken at secdat.com  Wed Feb 14 16:14:19 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:14:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code
In-Reply-To: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D37BAB.7010209@secdat.com>

Brian Dailey wrote:
> A lot of the books and other material that I've been reading talk 
> about database abstraction - developing your application so that you 
> can use different database backends without significant (or maybe any) 
> changes to your code. Pear::DB seems to really do a good job with 
> this. However...

There are two levels of this.


At the first level, you to do basic SQL passthrough without worrying 
about whether to use pg_fetch_array() or mysql_fetch_array().


At the second level you need to hide the fact that some SQL variants 
want to say "SELECT * FIRST 10 FROM .... " while others insist on 
"SELECT * FROM... ORDER BY x limit 5".  The usual solution here is to 
create replacement functions that build your SELECT statements for you.




>
> In the past, I've always used MySQL or Oracle, but mostly MySQL. Each 
> SQL distribution has its own peculiar ways of doing some things, and I 
> know that using some of the MySQL functions makes the code far easier 
> to write and also optimizes the speed of the query.
>
> So my question boils down to this: how does one balance writing code 
> that works regardless of the backend and still keep things optimized 
> for speed and clarity? Are there any generalized tips that any of you 
> can share from your experiences?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Feb 14 16:48:27 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:48:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
Message-ID: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>

I asked before, but I?m still having trouble. I blew up the default OSX
Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6 because Zend
doesn?t support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can?t get the default OSX
Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn?t appear to support SSL,
although I could be wrong.

Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I looked
at the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for getting
PHP5.1.x running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution work? I?d try
Entropy again if I can restore Apache.

Other ideas...this shouldn?t be so difficult, but it?s starting to make
WindowsXP look better...

Cliff
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From ken at secdat.com  Wed Feb 14 16:54:58 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:54:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <45D38532.1070007@secdat.com>

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> I asked before, but I'm still having trouble. I blew up the default 
> OSX Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6 
> because Zend doesn't support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can't get 
> the default OSX Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn't 
> appear to support SSL, although I could be wrong.
>
> Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I 
> looked at the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for 
> getting PHP5.1.x running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution 
> work? I'd try Entropy again if I can restore Apache.

A good buddy of mine just figured this out, but he is not on the list.  
I'm going to forward the email to him and ask him to respond to you and 
also to join the list.

>
> Other ideas...this shouldn't be so difficult, but it's starting to 
> make WindowsXP look better...
>
> Cliff
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From tboyden at supercoups.com  Wed Feb 14 16:56:49 2007
From: tboyden at supercoups.com (Timothy Boyden)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:56:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A07D2B2A@greenmonster.supercoups.local>

You could do an Archive and Re-Install installation of your O/S, that
should restore the original configuration without affecting your user
data and installed applications...
 
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107120
 
-Tim

________________________________

From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Cliff Hirsch
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:48 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX


I asked before, but I'm still having trouble. I blew up the default OSX
Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6 because Zend
doesn't support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can't get the default
OSX Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn't appear to support
SSL, although I could be wrong.

Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I
looked at the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for
getting PHP5.1.x running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution
work? I'd try Entropy again if I can restore Apache.

Other ideas...this shouldn't be so difficult, but it's starting to make
WindowsXP look better...

Cliff 
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From mwithington at PLMresearch.com  Wed Feb 14 16:57:17 2007
From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:57:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <491198290702141357v15bb4ed3yabd32d1a1bb8a4a0@mail.gmail.com>

Did you check your "personal" httpd.conf?  Should be in the etc/httpd/users
folder.  There might be some hocus-pocus going on there

On 2/14/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  I asked before, but I'm still having trouble. I blew up the default OSX
> Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6 because Zend
> doesn't support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can't get the default OSX
> Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn't appear to support SSL,
> although I could be wrong.
>
> Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I looked
> at the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for getting
> PHP5.1.x running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution work? I'd
> try Entropy again if I can restore Apache.
>
> Other ideas...this shouldn't be so difficult, but it's starting to make
> WindowsXP look better...
>
> Cliff
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
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From ramons at gmx.net  Wed Feb 14 17:00:05 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:00:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D38665.5020109@gmx.net>

N?stor wrote:
> Guys,
> 
> I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.
> 
> any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> N?stor :-)
> 
>

I made good experiences with swish-e. Very easy to use after reading the 
documentation and it also searches PDFs, something that most search 
engines do not do...I mean the free ones.

David


From rotsen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 14 16:58:50 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:58:50 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <45D3768F.7070106@optonline.net>
References: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D3768F.7070106@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60702141358x5ca2bc0boa968f7be4fab62ff@mail.gmail.com>

Donald thanks for your recommendation but that is too expensive.

Sorry, I did not explained myself better.

I need a free search engine for our intranet(as within the company only),
preferable in perl, php or Java(as a last resource).

I was wondering what you guys recommend.

Thanks,

N?stor :-)

On 2/14/07, Donald J Organ IV <dorgan at optonline.net> wrote:
>
>  http://www.google.com/enterprise/gsa/
>
> N?stor wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.
>
> any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Onlinehttp://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHPhttp://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From philliproberts at developersshack.com  Wed Feb 14 16:59:28 2007
From: philliproberts at developersshack.com (Phillip B. Roberts)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:59:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <1171490370.7386.3.camel@proberts>

Cliff, 

I don't have a ton of experience with OSX, other than my wife runs OSX
10.3 on her Macintosh, however, when my *nix box was broken for awhile I
was running XAMPP on her Macintosh with out problem. 

Thanks, 
pbr


On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 16:48 -0500, Cliff Hirsch wrote:

> I asked before, but I?m still having trouble. I blew up the default
> OSX Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6
> because Zend doesn?t support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can?t get
> the default OSX Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn?t
> appear to support SSL, although I could be wrong.
> 
> Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I
> looked at the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for
> getting PHP5.1.x running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution
> work? I?d try Entropy again if I can restore Apache.
> 
> Other ideas...this shouldn?t be so difficult, but it?s starting to
> make WindowsXP look better...
> 
> Cliff 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

-- 
Phillip B. Roberts <philliproberts at developersshack.com>
Roberts Companies
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Feb 14 17:00:52 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:00:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <45D38532.1070007@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <C1F8F0C5.A3B%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 2/14/07 4:54 PM, "Kenneth Downs" <ken at secdat.com> wrote:

> Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>>  Apache/PHP on MAC OSX I asked before, but I?m still having trouble. I blew
>> up the default OSX Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to
>> 5.1.6 because Zend doesn?t support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can?t get
>> the default OSX Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn?t appear to
>> support SSL, although I could be wrong.
>>  
>> Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I looked at
>> the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for getting PHP5.1.x
>> running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution work? I?d try Entropy
>> again if I can restore Apache.
>>  
> 
> A good buddy of mine just figured this out, but he is not on the list. I'm
> going to forward the email to him and ask him to respond to you and also to
> join the list.
> 
>> 
Thanks! After reviewing Zend?s site, I?m not even sure if they support
remote debugging on an Intel-based MAC. Is anyone out there doing this?

Cliff
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Feb 14 17:02:49 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:02:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <491198290702141357v15bb4ed3yabd32d1a1bb8a4a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1F8F139.A3C%cliff@pinestream.com>

I checked that out. No problems there.

On 2/14/07 4:57 PM, "Mark Withington" <mwithington at PLMresearch.com> wrote:

> Did you check your "personal" httpd.conf?  Should be in the etc/httpd/users
> folder.  There might be some hocus-pocus going on there
> 
> On 2/14/07, Cliff Hirsch  <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>> I asked before, but I'm still having trouble. I blew up the default OSX
>> Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6 because Zend
>> doesn't support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can't get the default OSX
>> Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn't appear to support SSL,
>> although I could be wrong.
>> 
>> Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I looked at
>> the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for getting PHP5.1.x
>> running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution work? I'd try Entropy
>> again if I can restore Apache.
>> 
>> Other ideas...this shouldn't be so difficult, but it's starting to make
>> WindowsXP look better...

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From dorgan at optonline.net  Wed Feb 14 17:09:59 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:09:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60702141358x5ca2bc0boa968f7be4fab62ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D3768F.7070106@optonline.net>
	<a304e2d60702141358x5ca2bc0boa968f7be4fab62ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D388B7.2090106@optonline.net>

They make something a little cheaper called the google mini, dont know 
hwo much cheaper though.

N?stor wrote:
> Donald thanks for your recommendation but that is too expensive.
>
> Sorry, I did not explained myself better.
>
> I need a free search engine for our intranet(as within the company only),
> preferable in perl, php or Java(as a last resource).
>
> I was wondering what you guys recommend.
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
>
> On 2/14/07, *Donald J Organ IV* < dorgan at optonline.net 
> <mailto:dorgan at optonline.net>> wrote:
>
>     http://www.google.com/enterprise/gsa/
>
>     N?stor wrote:
>>     Guys,
>>
>>     I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.
>>
>>     any recommendations?
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>
>>     N?stor :-)
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>
>>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>       
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>     http://www.nyphpcon.com <http://www.nyphpcon.com>
>
>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>     <http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>   


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Feb 14 17:11:23 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:11:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <1171490370.7386.3.camel@proberts>
Message-ID: <C1F8F33B.A44%cliff@pinestream.com>

I got PHP 5.2 running again using Xampp. Think I?ll just stick with that and
wait for Zend supports OSX Intel remote debugging.

Any other debugging solutions out there?

On 2/14/07 4:59 PM, "Phillip B. Roberts"
<philliproberts at developersshack.com> wrote:

> Cliff, 
> 
> I don't have a ton of experience with OSX, other than my wife runs OSX 10.3 on
> her Macintosh, however, when my *nix box was broken for awhile I was running
> XAMPP on her Macintosh with out problem.
> 
> Thanks, 
> pbr
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 16:48 -0500, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>>  I asked before, but I?m still having trouble. I blew up the default OSX
>> Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6 because Zend
>> doesn?t support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can?t get the default OSX
>> Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn?t appear to support SSL,
>> although I could be wrong.
>>  
>>  Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I looked
>> at the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for getting
>> PHP5.1.x running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution work? I?d try
>> Entropy again if I can restore Apache.
>>  
>>  Other ideas...this shouldn?t be so difficult, but it?s starting to make
>> WindowsXP look better...

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From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Wed Feb 14 17:13:12 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:13:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <9C9A49F4-B4DE-48AD-9180-4107B6D88EFB@jonbaer.com>

On the Developer CD there should be a package file you can run which  
should get you back (this may be the same as http://www.apple.com/ 
downloads/macosx/unix_open_source/apache.html), Ive been using  
MacPorts more and more after trying every other alternative (MAMP  
included) and find it to be easier to maintain.

The key is just to make sure that your PATH is pointing to the  
correct apachectl (even the one in ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist)

- Jon

On Feb 14, 2007, at 4:48 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:

> I asked before, but I?m still having trouble. I blew up the default  
> OSX Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6  
> because Zend doesn?t support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can?t  
> get the default OSX Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it  
> doesn?t appear to support SSL, although I could be wrong.
>
> Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I  
> looked at the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas  
> for getting PHP5.1.x running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP  
> solution work? I?d try Entropy again if I can restore Apache.
>
> Other ideas...this shouldn?t be so difficult, but it?s starting to  
> make WindowsXP look better...
>
> Cliff
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From daniel at reflexionsdata.com  Wed Feb 14 17:13:36 2007
From: daniel at reflexionsdata.com (Daniel Leslie)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:13:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D38990.1000609@reflexionsdata.com>

Hi N?stor,

We've had success with variations of Lucene, the Java-based engine 
developed by the Apache folks.

In particular you may wish to explore PyLucene (Python) and 
Zend_search_lucene (PHP).

Regards,
Dan


N?stor wrote:

> Guys,
>
> I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.
>
> any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
>
-- 
Partner / Director of Business Development

r e f l e x i o n s   d a t a
business solutions for the web
http://www.reflexionsdata.com/

34 South Broadway, Suite 716
White Plains, NY 10601

914-946-3711 x200 (office)
914-439-1385 (cell)
914-206-3646 (fax)
Email: daniel at reflexionsdata.com
Skype: dan.leslie



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Wed Feb 14 17:14:47 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:14:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Random MySQL question
In-Reply-To: <45D3764C.9020804@n0p.net>
References: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>
	<66B0D5A5-5F96-40AC-9D9D-A813B05C5D97@jonbaer.com>
	<45D3764C.9020804@n0p.net>
Message-ID: <324A5799-C44D-4C48-A4EC-2ACFA028E99D@jonbaer.com>

Interesting how you can walk down the entire list to produce the  
order you need like that.

On Feb 14, 2007, at 3:51 PM, Flavio daCosta wrote:

> On 02/14/2007 03:37 PM, Jon Baer wrote:
>> Interesting question but this *would* seem to work ...
>>
>> select id, categories from dd_categories where id in (21, 20, 13,  
>> 3, 22,
>> 31) order by id = 21 desc;
>>
>> Anyone else test, confirm or answer why?
>
> id = 21 is evaluated to TRUE or FALSE and then sorted based on that.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Wed Feb 14 17:17:28 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:17:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <45D38A78.7040306@beaffinitive.com>

I have XAMPP for Mac OSX running.  Seems to be ok... although the 
current version for my Intel-Mac installed PHP 5.2... so that's not a 
help for you. 

I sort of prefer compiling from source because there's usually something 
missing that I need from these apache/php bundles and they tend put 
things in weird places.  I had an extremely hard time figuring out how 
to compile some of the standard libraries from source until I came 
across this doc: http://www.libgd.org/DOC_INSTALL_OSX - I has steps for 
libjpeg, libpng, freetype, zlib, and gd.

I haven't tried the remote debugger before.  Good luck!

-Rob


From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Wed Feb 14 17:21:34 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:21:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <222D493F-254D-4593-A734-5C958C0BECD7@jonbaer.com>

Depending on the size of the index you need to produce the  
ZendFrameworks has a port of Lucene in PHP5 ...

http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDOCDEV/20.+Zend_Search

The nice thing is that the file formats are fully compatible so you  
can use already available Lucene tools to build ...

java -jar LuceneIndexCreation.jar [-c] [-s] <document_dir> <index_dir>

Cool stuff.

- Jon

On Feb 14, 2007, at 3:38 PM, N?stor wrote:

> Guys,
>
> I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.
>
> any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Feb 14 17:27:28 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:27:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
In-Reply-To: <008501c75076$6b3fe120$6501a8c0@gamebox>
References: <004a01c75058$1bd2ea60$6501a8c0@gamebox>
	<008501c75076$6b3fe120$6501a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <45D38CD0.1040309@cyberxdesigns.com>

I will take a shot at this one.  My group has installed/customized 
X-Cart a handful of times for clients.  It is a very feature rich 
eCommerce solution.  Their support is pretty darn good and the software 
works well. 

The problem with X-Cart is it is a very feature rich piece of software 
and it uses Smarty templates.  X-Cart like Joomla, can be overkill in 
many cases.  The sheer volume of features and configuration can make 
things unmanageable.  The use of Smarty templates can make customizing 
X-Cart time consuming.  There are many many layers that have to be 
sifted through to fully apply a custom look and feel.

Those draw backs aside, we still deploy X-Cart as our first choice in 
PHP shopping carts.  As well, we use Joomla all the time.  Maybe we are 
gluttons for punishment, but both seem to serve us well.

I know some very smart developers outside my group who also use X-Cart 
for some very good looking sites.  Here is a very simple example of an 
X-Cart installation.  http://www.imaginativelearningtools.com

Good luck and make sure you estimate an appropriate amount of time for 
the project.  Learning any new software platform is very time consuming.

Hans

Hans C. Kaspersetz
Cyber X Designs

http://www.cyberxdesigns.com



Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) wrote:
> Hello Again,
>  
> To be more specific, since this email has generated no responses,
> can anyone elaborate on experiances they have had w/X-Cart?
>  
> Reading about it online, it would appear as a pretty good solution.
> Again, this is my firms first ecommerce site, so I'd rather not make
> too many beginner mistakes.
>  
> - Ben
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) <mailto:ben at projectskyline.com>
>     *To:* NYPHP Talk <mailto:talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:49 AM
>     *Subject:* [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
>
>     Hello all,
>      
>     I know this is a questions that has been covered before, so I am
>     hoping someone can point me to an URL or white paper.
>      
>     I'm looking to build something similiar to shopzilla.com (w/out
>     the comparision mechanism). An e-commerce site w/the ability for
>     my client to update content,
>     post new images and add items to the inventory.
>      
>     I'm looking for a solution in php/mysql.
>      
>     Also, if anyone is interested in getting involved in this project
>     I may need outside
>     expertise. This would be my firm's first ecommerce site. Please
>     respond off list if
>     interested.
>      
>     Thanks,
>      
>     - Ben
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Wed Feb 14 17:33:25 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:33:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <45D388B7.2090106@optonline.net>
References: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D3768F.7070106@optonline.net>
	<a304e2d60702141358x5ca2bc0boa968f7be4fab62ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D388B7.2090106@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <B744FE74-3EA5-4EAB-B811-B95496DEB189@jonbaer.com>

It really depends on how many documents you are looking to index +  
how much content you want in memory for fast retrieval ... what makes  
the GSA stand out is clearly the PageRank algorithm used.

- Jon

On Feb 14, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Donald J Organ IV wrote:

> They make something a little cheaper called the google mini, dont  
> know hwo much cheaper though.
>
> N?stor wrote:
>> Donald thanks for your recommendation but that is too expensive.
>>
>> Sorry, I did not explained myself better.
>>
>> I need a free search engine for our intranet(as within the company  
>> only),
>> preferable in perl, php or Java(as a last resource).
>>
>> I was wondering what you guys recommend.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> N?stor :-)
>>
>> On 2/14/07, *Donald J Organ IV* < dorgan at optonline.net  
>> <mailto:dorgan at optonline.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     http://www.google.com/enterprise/gsa/
>>
>>     N?stor wrote:
>>>     Guys,
>>>
>>>     I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.
>>>
>>>     any recommendations?
>>>
>>>     Thanks,
>>>
>>>     N?stor :-)
>>>      
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> ----
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>>
>>>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>     http://www.nyphpcon.com <http://www.nyphpcon.com>
>>
>>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>     <http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From ben at projectskyline.com  Wed Feb 14 18:02:28 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:02:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
References: <004a01c75058$1bd2ea60$6501a8c0@gamebox><008501c75076$6b3fe120$6501a8c0@gamebox>
	<45D38CD0.1040309@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <033c01c7508c$336e7930$6501a8c0@gamebox>

Hello Hans,

Thanks so much. I have limited experiance w/Joomla, and have recently
been implementing smarty templates in my new applications.

I really like the templates.

Thanks for the example site.

I have adjusted my quote to provide *enough* time to learn this new tool.

Thanks for your response!

BTW and a bit off this topc:
I had sent out an email a few months back detailing my struggle between
the 'do it fast and ship it out' mentality I had found myself in VS my 
previous job
which was design/engineer, implement, test, ...

Everyone on the list had given great advice. One of the best comments was 
that
in order to be successful as a consultant, I would have to make the jump to 
a fulltime
consultant, not just moonlighting.

A shortwhile after I made the jump and now have a small company doing 
application
design (WE ARE NOT A WEBDESIGN FIRM heh).

Thanks to everyone on the list for their feedback!

- Ben

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hans C. Kaspersetz" <hans at cyberxdesigns.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions


>I will take a shot at this one.  My group has installed/customized X-Cart a 
>handful of times for clients.  It is a very feature rich eCommerce 
>solution.  Their support is pretty darn good and the software works well.
> The problem with X-Cart is it is a very feature rich piece of software and 
> it uses Smarty templates.  X-Cart like Joomla, can be overkill in many 
> cases.  The sheer volume of features and configuration can make things 
> unmanageable.  The use of Smarty templates can make customizing X-Cart 
> time consuming.  There are many many layers that have to be sifted through 
> to fully apply a custom look and feel.
>
> Those draw backs aside, we still deploy X-Cart as our first choice in PHP 
> shopping carts.  As well, we use Joomla all the time.  Maybe we are 
> gluttons for punishment, but both seem to serve us well.
>
> I know some very smart developers outside my group who also use X-Cart for 
> some very good looking sites.  Here is a very simple example of an X-Cart 
> installation.  http://www.imaginativelearningtools.com
>
> Good luck and make sure you estimate an appropriate amount of time for the 
> project.  Learning any new software platform is very time consuming.
>
> Hans
>
> Hans C. Kaspersetz
> Cyber X Designs
>
> http://www.cyberxdesigns.com
>
>
>
> Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) wrote:
>> Hello Again,
>>  To be more specific, since this email has generated no responses,
>> can anyone elaborate on experiances they have had w/X-Cart?
>>  Reading about it online, it would appear as a pretty good solution.
>> Again, this is my firms first ecommerce site, so I'd rather not make
>> too many beginner mistakes.
>>  - Ben
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     *From:* Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) <mailto:ben at projectskyline.com>
>>     *To:* NYPHP Talk <mailto:talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:49 AM
>>     *Subject:* [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
>>
>>     Hello all,
>>      I know this is a questions that has been covered before, so I am
>>     hoping someone can point me to an URL or white paper.
>>      I'm looking to build something similiar to shopzilla.com (w/out
>>     the comparision mechanism). An e-commerce site w/the ability for
>>     my client to update content,
>>     post new images and add items to the inventory.
>>      I'm looking for a solution in php/mysql.
>>      Also, if anyone is interested in getting involved in this project
>>     I may need outside
>>     expertise. This would be my firm's first ecommerce site. Please
>>     respond off list if
>>     interested.
>>      Thanks,
>>      - Ben
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 



From rotsen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 14 18:16:27 2007
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:16:27 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <45D38990.1000609@reflexionsdata.com>
References: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D38990.1000609@reflexionsdata.com>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60702141516t7e1e3edbh725ab8c57dc64bd4@mail.gmail.com>

I just download several search engines from freshmeat.net and I will look
into it to
see which one fits us better internally.  The only java base search engine
that I
downloaded is Lucene, but I need to install tomcat, the rest of them are php
or
perl based.

Thanks for your replies,

N?stor

On 2/14/07, Daniel Leslie <daniel at reflexionsdata.com> wrote:
>
> Hi N?stor,
>
> We've had success with variations of Lucene, the Java-based engine
> developed by the Apache folks.
>
> In particular you may wish to explore PyLucene (Python) and
> Zend_search_lucene (PHP).
>
> Regards,
> Dan
>
>
> N?stor wrote:
>
> > Guys,
> >
> > I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.
> >
> > any recommendations?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > N?stor :-)
> >
> --
> Partner / Director of Business Development
>
> r e f l e x i o n s   d a t a
> business solutions for the web
> http://www.reflexionsdata.com/
>
> 34 South Broadway, Suite 716
> White Plains, NY 10601
>
> 914-946-3711 x200 (office)
> 914-439-1385 (cell)
> 914-206-3646 (fax)
> Email: daniel at reflexionsdata.com
> Skype: dan.leslie
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Feb 14 18:50:18 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:50:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <9C9A49F4-B4DE-48AD-9180-4107B6D88EFB@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <C1F90A6A.A5B%cliff@pinestream.com>

The key is just to make sure that your PATH is pointing to the correct
apachectl (even the one in ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist)
> 
> - Jon
> 
I don?t see that file. Where is it?
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Feb 14 18:55:24 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:55:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <45D38A78.7040306@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <C1F90B9C.A5D%cliff@pinestream.com>

XAMPP is working. And I'm looking for another IDE. Goodbye Zend. I've been
faithful, but time to move on... Perhaps Komodo?

Compiling from scratch seems to be a tedious, albeit worthwhile exorcise.
There are lots of tutorials on the web, but perhaps it would make a good
phundamentals.

This entire issue begs the question of what to deploy for production. The
latest release with the latest security updates? A stable, known, and tested
old release? I'm beginning to understand why so many sites still run PHP
4.x.

Cliff

On 2/14/07 5:17 PM, "Rob Marscher" <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com> wrote:

> I have XAMPP for Mac OSX running.  Seems to be ok... although the
> current version for my Intel-Mac installed PHP 5.2... so that's not a
> help for you. 
> 
> I sort of prefer compiling from source because there's usually something
> missing that I need from these apache/php bundles and they tend put
> things in weird places.  I had an extremely hard time figuring out how
> to compile some of the standard libraries from source until I came
> across this doc: http://www.libgd.org/DOC_INSTALL_OSX - I has steps for
> libjpeg, libpng, freetype, zlib, and gd.
> 
> I haven't tried the remote debugger before.  Good luck!




From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Wed Feb 14 19:44:30 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:44:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F90A6A.A5B%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C1F90A6A.A5B%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <1315FF94-2180-4DF2-ABE1-C3863CD199BA@jonbaer.com>

You would create it on your own ...

mkdir ~/.MacOSX; nano ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist

This is what my file looks like, YMMV ...

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http:// 
www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
         <key>RUBY</key>
         <string>/opt/local/bin/ruby</string>
         <key>CVS_RSH</key>
         <string>ssh</string>
         <key>SSH_AUTH_SOCK</key>
         <string>/tmp/501/SSHKeychain.socket</string>
         <key>PATH</key>
         <string>/bin:/opt/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/ 
bin:/Applications/MAMP/Library/bin/</string>
</dict>
</plist>

I found this out after noticing a few GUI-based apps would not run if  
the executable wasn't available, more info is here ... http:// 
developer.apple.com/qa/qa2001/qa1067.html

I still have no idea if this is based on say Cocoa apps which need to  
run CLI-based apps (I ran into this when TextMate would not run svn  
or a few commands).

- Jon

On Feb 14, 2007, at 6:50 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:

> The key is just to make sure that your PATH is pointing to the  
> correct apachectl (even the one in ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist)
>>
>> - Jon
>>
> I don?t see that file. Where is it?
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Wed Feb 14 19:58:26 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:58:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Debugging PHP w/ Firebug
Message-ID: <0B94037C-A426-421E-8FB6-D0B2172C1776@jonbaer.com>

Article detailing nice simple tips on how to embed Javascript code  
for dumping info to the console ...

http://ajax.phpmagazine.net/2007/02/how_to_use_firebug_to_debug_ph.html
http://www.appelsiini.net/~tuupola/312/debugging-php-with-firebug

- Jon


From corey at bmfenterprises.com  Wed Feb 14 20:00:06 2007
From: corey at bmfenterprises.com (Corey Fogarty)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:00:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <200702142211.RAA20959@mail.bmfenterprises.com>
Message-ID: <C1F91AC7.45017%corey@bmfenterprises.com>


This is a pretty good system from the O?Reilly PHP Cookbook, page 514
Program: Site Search.

Corey

Corey Fogarty
BMF Enterprises
www.bmfenterprises.com
908.995.4711



> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:00:05 -0500
> From: David Krings <ramons at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Message-ID: <45D38665.5020109 at gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> N?stor wrote:
>> > Guys,
>> > 
>> > I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.
>> > 
>> > any recommendations?
>> > 
>> > Thanks,
>> > 
>> > N?stor :-)
>> > 
>> >
> 
> I made good experiences with swish-e. Very easy to use after reading the
> documentation and it also searches PDFs, something that most search
> engines do not do...I mean the free ones.
> 
> David


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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Feb 14 20:00:55 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:00:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <45D35E1F.1000508@php.net>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <p06240803c1f79dab85ba@192.168.1.102>
	<45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net> <p06240809c1f8fa1f34ce@192.168.1.102>
	<45D35E1F.1000508@php.net>
Message-ID: <b76252690702141700n55988d7el5dddbb3231e6c38a@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/14/07, Chris Shiflett <shiflett at php.net> wrote:
> Tedd Sperling wrote:
> > > Can you explain what a screen reader would do with this?
> > >
> > > <h2>Please click the accessibility icon.</h2>
> > > <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" name="movie"
> > > data="access.swf" style="width: 30px; height: 30px;">
> > > <param name="movie" value="access.swf">
> > > </object>
> >
> > No, I can't explain what a screen reader would do with it. However,
> > if someone could explain to me what a screen-reader/user combination
> > expects, then I probably can write the code.
>
> Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to be facetious. I'm curious.

I'll take a stab at this. A screen reader wouldn't do squat with it,
because it's including a Flash movie and (correct me if I'm wrong) the
screen reader only has access to the text it is given by the browser
from the DOM.

So it's going to say something like "Page has twenty links. Heading
level two. Please click the accessibility icon." And that's it, unless
the Flash movie dynamically modifies the text of the page.

Now, the movie might try to play sounds to explain itself to a
visually impaired user. But unless the entire form is rendered in the
Flash movie, its going to conflict or be out of sequence with the
reader reading the rest of the page.

The movie could dynamically insert a line of text into the form: "Type
ctrl-a to play a short sound. You must type the word you hear into the
field marked i underscore am underscore human in order to submit this
form."

Firefox once again comes to your rescue, because there is a nifty
extension called "Fangs" that emulates the very expensive JAWS screen
reader. It doesn't speak the text, but it renders it in a window the
way it will be spoken, so you can get some idea of how your pages
"look" to people who can't see them.

Are you coding this for clients who are, or actually know, blind
people? I'm pretty sure we (collective we) have no chance of ever
getting this stuff right until we can watch someone actually trying to
use web applications via JAWS.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From nyphp at n0p.net  Wed Feb 14 20:58:11 2007
From: nyphp at n0p.net (Flavio daCosta)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:58:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Random MySQL question
In-Reply-To: <324A5799-C44D-4C48-A4EC-2ACFA028E99D@jonbaer.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>	<66B0D5A5-5F96-40AC-9D9D-A813B05C5D97@jonbaer.com>	<45D3764C.9020804@n0p.net>
	<324A5799-C44D-4C48-A4EC-2ACFA028E99D@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <45D3BE33.9060604@n0p.net>

On 02/14/2007 05:14 PM, Jon Baer wrote:
> Interesting how you can walk down the entire list to produce the order
> you need like that.

Yes, and to elaborate a bit more from my earlier post, you could put the
series in the FIELD() and then sort strictly from that.


SELECT
	id, categories
FROM
	dd_categories
WHERE
	id IN (21, 20, 13, 3, 22, 31)
ORDER BY
	FIELD(id, 21, 20, 13, 3, 22, 31);




From dlmerryweather at gmail.com  Wed Feb 14 21:46:20 2007
From: dlmerryweather at gmail.com (David Merryweather)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:46:20 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <793b2bec0702141846h29fa31cu63deff553e3c391c@mail.gmail.com>

I would suggest using MAMP (http://www.mamp.info/en/index.php)

I'm not impressed with Apple's job on their Apache implementation.
MAMP is elegant, efficient and easy to use and implement.

The whole thing loads to a folder, start and stop MySQL and Apache
with a gui utility and it runs fast.  It also has a lot of the tools
like PHPMyAdmin installed and ready to run

-David

On 2/14/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  I asked before, but I'm still having trouble. I blew up the default OSX
> Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6 because Zend
> doesn't support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can't get the default OSX
> Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn't appear to support SSL,
> although I could be wrong.
>
>  Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I looked
> at the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for getting
> PHP5.1.x running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution work? I'd try
> Entropy again if I can restore Apache.
>
>  Other ideas...this shouldn't be so difficult, but it's starting to make
> WindowsXP look better...
>
>  Cliff
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
David Merryweather
Vice President of Information Technologies
Creative Education Institute, Inc.


From mwithington at PLMresearch.com  Wed Feb 14 21:59:45 2007
From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:59:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <793b2bec0702141846h29fa31cu63deff553e3c391c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<793b2bec0702141846h29fa31cu63deff553e3c391c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <491198290702141859k77ed5b38nf76949bcb2085d1@mail.gmail.com>

I agree, MAMP is nice although I did have trouble getting the Zend IDE to
work with it.  Could be a problem with Zend on MacOSX - at the time they
didn't have the Mac binary (as I recall)

On 2/14/07, David Merryweather <dlmerryweather at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I would suggest using MAMP (http://www.mamp.info/en/index.php)
>
> I'm not impressed with Apple's job on their Apache implementation.
> MAMP is elegant, efficient and easy to use and implement.
>
> The whole thing loads to a folder, start and stop MySQL and Apache
> with a gui utility and it runs fast.  It also has a lot of the tools
> like PHPMyAdmin installed and ready to run
>
> -David
>
> On 2/14/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> >
> >  I asked before, but I'm still having trouble. I blew up the default OSX
> > Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6 because Zend
> > doesn't support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can't get the default
> OSX
> > Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn't appear to support
> SSL,
> > although I could be wrong.
> >
> >  Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I
> looked
> > at the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for getting
> > PHP5.1.x running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution work? I'd
> try
> > Entropy again if I can restore Apache.
> >
> >  Other ideas...this shouldn't be so difficult, but it's starting to make
> > WindowsXP look better...
> >
> >  Cliff
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
> --
> David Merryweather
> Vice President of Information Technologies
> Creative Education Institute, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Feb 14 22:06:48 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:06:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <491198290702141859k77ed5b38nf76949bcb2085d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<793b2bec0702141846h29fa31cu63deff553e3c391c@mail.gmail.com>
	<491198290702141859k77ed5b38nf76949bcb2085d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070215030648.M50602@pinestream.com>

But does MAMP support SSL? Not when I tried it. I got Xampp working, although
some extensions appear a bit flakey. But so far, everything works -- SSL,
curl, mhash, mcrypt...GD as soon as I get my fonts worked out...

Has anyone tried Komodo for the MAC?

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:59:45 -0500, Mark Withington wrote
> I agree, MAMP is nice although I did have trouble getting the Zend 
> IDE to work with it.  Could be a problem with Zend on MacOSX - at 
> the time they didn't have the Mac binary (as I recall)
> 
> On 2/14/07, David Merryweather <dlmerryweather at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I would suggest using MAMP (http://www.mamp.info/en/index.php)
> >
> > I'm not impressed with Apple's job on their Apache implementation.
> > MAMP is elegant, efficient and easy to use and implement.
> >
> > The whole thing loads to a folder, start and stop MySQL and Apache
> > with a gui utility and it runs fast.  It also has a lot of the tools
> > like PHPMyAdmin installed and ready to run



From dlmerryweather at gmail.com  Wed Feb 14 23:20:45 2007
From: dlmerryweather at gmail.com (David Merryweather)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:20:45 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <491198290702141859k77ed5b38nf76949bcb2085d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<793b2bec0702141846h29fa31cu63deff553e3c391c@mail.gmail.com>
	<491198290702141859k77ed5b38nf76949bcb2085d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <793b2bec0702142020m4553ac1bt4a61f17c21d4b9d9@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't tried the Zend IDE with the current MAMP.  I do know that it
has built in support for the Zend Optimizer.

On 2/14/07, Mark Withington <mwithington at plmresearch.com> wrote:
> I agree, MAMP is nice although I did have trouble getting the Zend IDE to
> work with it.  Could be a problem with Zend on MacOSX - at the time they
> didn't have the Mac binary (as I recall)
>
>
>  On 2/14/07, David Merryweather <dlmerryweather at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would suggest using MAMP
> (http://www.mamp.info/en/index.php)
> >
> > I'm not impressed with Apple's job on their Apache implementation.
> > MAMP is elegant, efficient and easy to use and implement.
> >
> > The whole thing loads to a folder, start and stop MySQL and Apache
> > with a gui utility and it runs fast.  It also has a lot of the tools
> > like PHPMyAdmin installed and ready to run
> >
> > -David
> >
> > On 2/14/07, Cliff Hirsch < cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >  I asked before, but I'm still having trouble. I blew up the default OSX
> > > Apache after trying to switch from Entropy PHP 5.2 to 5.1.6 because Zend
> > > doesn't support 5.2 for remote debugging. Now I can't get the default
> OSX
> > > Apache to run. I have MAMP running, but it doesn't appear to support
> SSL,
> > > although I could be wrong.
> > >
> > >  Does anyone have suggestions for restoring my default OSX Apache? I
> looked
> > > at the httpd.conf file and it looks fine. Any other ideas for getting
> > > PHP5.1.x running on OSX? Does the experimental XAMPP solution work? I'd
> try
> > > Entropy again if I can restore Apache.
> > >
> > >  Other ideas...this shouldn't be so difficult, but it's starting to make
> > > WindowsXP look better...
> > >
> > >  Cliff
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Merryweather
> > Vice President of Information Technologies
> > Creative Education Institute, Inc.
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Mark
>
> --------------------------
> Mark L. Withington
> PLMresearch
> PO Box 1354
> Plymouth, MA  02362
> o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
> f: 508-746-4973
> v: 508-746-2383
> m: 508-801-0181
> Skype: 508-570-2285
>  http://www.PLMresearch.com
> AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
> mwithington at plmresearch.com
> Public Key:
> http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
> Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
David Merryweather
Vice President of Information Technologies
Creative Education Institute, Inc.


From dlmerryweather at gmail.com  Wed Feb 14 23:28:44 2007
From: dlmerryweather at gmail.com (David Merryweather)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:28:44 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <20070215030648.M50602@pinestream.com>
References: <C1F8EDDB.A31%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<793b2bec0702141846h29fa31cu63deff553e3c391c@mail.gmail.com>
	<491198290702141859k77ed5b38nf76949bcb2085d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070215030648.M50602@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <793b2bec0702142028x22e1c079pe880855361c261fb@mail.gmail.com>

MAMP does support SSL by default (OpenSSL).

On 2/14/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> But does MAMP support SSL? Not when I tried it. I got Xampp working, although
> some extensions appear a bit flakey. But so far, everything works -- SSL,
> curl, mhash, mcrypt...GD as soon as I get my fonts worked out...
>
> Has anyone tried Komodo for the MAC?
>
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:59:45 -0500, Mark Withington wrote
> > I agree, MAMP is nice although I did have trouble getting the Zend
> > IDE to work with it.  Could be a problem with Zend on MacOSX - at
> > the time they didn't have the Mac binary (as I recall)
> >
> > On 2/14/07, David Merryweather <dlmerryweather at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I would suggest using MAMP (http://www.mamp.info/en/index.php)
> > >
> > > I'm not impressed with Apple's job on their Apache implementation.
> > > MAMP is elegant, efficient and easy to use and implement.
> > >
> > > The whole thing loads to a folder, start and stop MySQL and Apache
> > > with a gui utility and it runs fast.  It also has a lot of the tools
> > > like PHPMyAdmin installed and ready to run
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
David Merryweather
Vice President of Information Technologies
Creative Education Institute, Inc.


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 15 08:14:35 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:14:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F90B9C.A5D%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <45D38A78.7040306@beaffinitive.com>
	<C1F90B9C.A5D%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702150514n7408512ex3a72723f55b241e@mail.gmail.com>

Cliff,

be sure to read this :)
http://www.josephcrawford.com/2006/08/24/review-php-ides/
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Feb 15 08:45:12 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:45:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702150514n7408512ex3a72723f55b241e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1F9CE18.AB6%cliff@pinestream.com>

Great review. Sounds like I should stick with Zend/XP/Parallels/Mactel for
now. Then move to Eclipse or a try mactel version of Zend.


On 2/15/07 8:14 AM, "Joseph Crawford" <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Cliff,
> 
> be sure to read this :)
> http://www.josephcrawford.com/2006/08/24/review-php-ides/




From tedd at sperling.com  Thu Feb 15 09:11:11 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:11:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] capricious submission of forms
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702141700n55988d7el5dddbb3231e6c38a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070207034128.8735874186@net-pollen.com>
	<45D09EE8.50404@omnistep.com>
	<b76252690702121508o7faac1eaj65a5f8a9721ff230@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D0F84B.9010906@php.net>
	<b76252690702121550g15412ed7ud4b622428ddc1db4@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D1002D.2040904@php.net> <p06240803c1f79dab85ba@192.168.1.102>
	<45D1F3DF.9080901@php.net> <p06240809c1f8fa1f34ce@192.168.1.102>
	<45D35E1F.1000508@php.net>
	<b76252690702141700n55988d7el5dddbb3231e6c38a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c1fa19d97e96@[192.168.1.102]>

>Are you coding this for clients who are, or actually know, blind
>people? I'm pretty sure we (collective we) have no chance of ever
>getting this stuff right until we can watch someone actually trying to
>use web applications via JAWS.

Chris:

I'm just doing it for grins between clients.

I have contacted some blinds users and expect some help from them shortly.

Thanks for your input and time.

Cheers,

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Thu Feb 15 11:14:45 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:14:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code
In-Reply-To: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070215161445.GA16092@panix.com>

Hi Brian:

On Wed, Feb 14, 2007 at 10:19:09AM -0500, Brian Dailey wrote:

> different database backends without significant (or maybe any) changes to
> your code. Pear::DB seems to really do a good job with this. However...

The new PEAR MDB2 package does an even better job.  Deals with building 
schemas nicely too.


> In the past, I've always used MySQL or Oracle, but mostly MySQL. Each SQL
> distribution has its own peculiar ways of doing some things, and I know that
> using some of the MySQL functions makes the code far easier to write and
> also optimizes the speed of the query.

In general, good SQL is good SQL, no matter what the platform is.

The question you need to face is how important performance is vs how 
important portability is.  The answer depends on what you're doing.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 15 11:22:27 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:22:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F9CE18.AB6%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <8d9a42800702150514n7408512ex3a72723f55b241e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1F9CE18.AB6%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702150822g6716e611nad07044c00bb048b@mail.gmail.com>

Be sure to read the comments, the only reason Eclipse did not work for
me is because it does not handle SMB mounted drives well so it was
really slow.  With a local file system it was fine.
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Feb 15 11:28:43 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:28:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code
In-Reply-To: <20070215161445.GA16092@panix.com>
References: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070215161445.GA16092@panix.com>
Message-ID: <45D48A3B.9070301@gmx.net>

Daniel Convissor wrote:
  > In general, good SQL is good SQL, no matter what the platform is.

True, but not every platform delivers the same results when sending it 
good SQL.

David


From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Feb 15 11:42:24 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:42:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702150822g6716e611nad07044c00bb048b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1F9F7A0.ADA%cliff@pinestream.com>

Does it support remote debugging like Zend. Debugging the current page, next
page, or next form submission from the browser in "real-time" is so useful.

On 2/15/07 11:22 AM, "Joseph Crawford" <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Be sure to read the comments, the only reason Eclipse did not work for
> me is because it does not handle SMB mounted drives well so it was
> really slow.  With a local file system it was fine.




From jv_nyphp at duikerbok.com  Thu Feb 15 11:44:53 2007
From: jv_nyphp at duikerbok.com (Jose Villegas)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:44:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
In-Reply-To: <033c01c7508c$336e7930$6501a8c0@gamebox>
References: <004a01c75058$1bd2ea60$6501a8c0@gamebox><008501c75076$6b3fe120$6501a8c0@gamebox>
	<45D38CD0.1040309@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<033c01c7508c$336e7930$6501a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <F9815BBE-16D6-40B3-AFB3-D614578BCC7F@duikerbok.com>

Hey Ben,

I would also take a look at LiteCommerce, which is based on XCart:
http://www.litecommerce.com/

I've installed it a couple of times and it was relatively easy to  
customize. The most important feature over OsCommerce/Zencart is that  
it can keep track of inventory on product options. Skinning it is  
very time consuming, but I think this is normal for most ecommerce  
systems. It uses FLEXY instead of Smarty and you have a choice of  
what components to buy.

Jose




On Feb 14, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Ben Sgro ((ProjectSkyline)) wrote:

> Hello Hans,
>
> Thanks so much. I have limited experiance w/Joomla, and have recently
> been implementing smarty templates in my new applications.
>
> I really like the templates.
>
> Thanks for the example site.
>
> I have adjusted my quote to provide *enough* time to learn this new  
> tool.
>
> Thanks for your response!
>
> BTW and a bit off this topc:
> I had sent out an email a few months back detailing my struggle  
> between
> the 'do it fast and ship it out' mentality I had found myself in VS  
> my previous job
> which was design/engineer, implement, test, ...
>
> Everyone on the list had given great advice. One of the best  
> comments was that
> in order to be successful as a consultant, I would have to make the  
> jump to a fulltime
> consultant, not just moonlighting.
>
> A shortwhile after I made the jump and now have a small company  
> doing application
> design (WE ARE NOT A WEBDESIGN FIRM heh).
>
> Thanks to everyone on the list for their feedback!
>
> - Ben
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans C. Kaspersetz"  
> <hans at cyberxdesigns.com>
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 5:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
>
>
>> I will take a shot at this one.  My group has installed/customized  
>> X-Cart a handful of times for clients.  It is a very feature rich  
>> eCommerce solution.  Their support is pretty darn good and the  
>> software works well.
>> The problem with X-Cart is it is a very feature rich piece of  
>> software and it uses Smarty templates.  X-Cart like Joomla, can be  
>> overkill in many cases.  The sheer volume of features and  
>> configuration can make things unmanageable.  The use of Smarty  
>> templates can make customizing X-Cart time consuming.  There are  
>> many many layers that have to be sifted through to fully apply a  
>> custom look and feel.
>>
>> Those draw backs aside, we still deploy X-Cart as our first choice  
>> in PHP shopping carts.  As well, we use Joomla all the time.   
>> Maybe we are gluttons for punishment, but both seem to serve us well.
>>
>> I know some very smart developers outside my group who also use X- 
>> Cart for some very good looking sites.  Here is a very simple  
>> example of an X-Cart installation.  http:// 
>> www.imaginativelearningtools.com
>>
>> Good luck and make sure you estimate an appropriate amount of time  
>> for the project.  Learning any new software platform is very time  
>> consuming.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> Hans C. Kaspersetz
>> Cyber X Designs
>>
>> http://www.cyberxdesigns.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) wrote:
>>> Hello Again,
>>>  To be more specific, since this email has generated no responses,
>>> can anyone elaborate on experiances they have had w/X-Cart?
>>>  Reading about it online, it would appear as a pretty good solution.
>>> Again, this is my firms first ecommerce site, so I'd rather not make
>>> too many beginner mistakes.
>>>  - Ben
>>>
>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>     *From:* Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline)  
>>> <mailto:ben at projectskyline.com>
>>>     *To:* NYPHP Talk <mailto:talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:49 AM
>>>     *Subject:* [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
>>>
>>>     Hello all,
>>>      I know this is a questions that has been covered before, so  
>>> I am
>>>     hoping someone can point me to an URL or white paper.
>>>      I'm looking to build something similiar to shopzilla.com (w/out
>>>     the comparision mechanism). An e-commerce site w/the ability for
>>>     my client to update content,
>>>     post new images and add items to the inventory.
>>>      I'm looking for a solution in php/mysql.
>>>      Also, if anyone is interested in getting involved in this  
>>> project
>>>     I may need outside
>>>     expertise. This would be my firm's first ecommerce site. Please
>>>     respond off list if
>>>     interested.
>>>      Thanks,
>>>      - Ben
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> ----
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Thu Feb 15 11:57:13 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:57:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX (+IDEs)
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702150514n7408512ex3a72723f55b241e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45D38A78.7040306@beaffinitive.com>
	<C1F90B9C.A5D%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<8d9a42800702150514n7408512ex3a72723f55b241e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44A7AAFC-D903-4B77-8A27-321F32883869@jonbaer.com>

Just FYI ...

There are 2 IDE "events" coming up for those interested ...

http://www.phparch.com/shop_product.php?itemid=150
Preview of Komodo IDE 4.0

http://www.nyphp.org/content/calendar/view_entry.php?id=105
Eclipse PHP Project and Zend Platform 3.0

- Jon

On Feb 15, 2007, at 8:14 AM, Joseph Crawford wrote:

> Cliff,
>
> be sure to read this :)
> http://www.josephcrawford.com/2006/08/24/review-php-ides/
> -- 
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From lists at silmail.com  Thu Feb 15 12:34:45 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:04:45 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code
In-Reply-To: <45D48A3B.9070301@gmx.net>
References: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070215161445.GA16092@panix.com> <45D48A3B.9070301@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702150934t3eb3fafchc406d233f506f917@mail.gmail.com>

>   > In general, good SQL is good SQL, no matter what the platform is.
>
> True, but not every platform delivers the same results when sending it
> good SQL.
>
>
David
Can you explain.. I got only exposure with MySQL..

-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
-------------- next part --------------
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From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 15 13:18:16 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:18:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Apache/PHP on MAC OSX
In-Reply-To: <C1F9F7A0.ADA%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <8d9a42800702150822g6716e611nad07044c00bb048b@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1F9F7A0.ADA%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702151018l61b31d13xbd0acae25c152fcd@mail.gmail.com>

Cliff,

I believe there is a plugin for eclipse that will allow it to take
advantage of Zend Platform so yes you could do the debugging.
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com


From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Feb 15 13:24:04 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:24:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
In-Reply-To: <F9815BBE-16D6-40B3-AFB3-D614578BCC7F@duikerbok.com>
Message-ID: <C1FA0F74.AEB%cliff@pinestream.com>

I am also using litecommerce, only because it has one particular feaure I
could not find in any other cart. I'm going through the skinning process now
-- again, (2nd time, after having it done once outsourcing).

Skinning does seem to be a royal pain. Not very stimulating...time
consuming...redundant, etc.

Issues to be aware of:
1. It is "97%" open-source. The core is encoded using ioncube.
2. Ioncube conflicts with Zend Debugger
3. It performs a license check.

Cliff


On 2/15/07 11:44 AM, "Jose Villegas" <jv_nyphp at duikerbok.com> wrote:

> Hey Ben,
> 
> I would also take a look at LiteCommerce, which is based on XCart:
> http://www.litecommerce.com/
> 
> I've installed it a couple of times and it was relatively easy to
> customize. The most important feature over OsCommerce/Zencart is that
> it can keep track of inventory on product options. Skinning it is
> very time consuming, but I think this is normal for most ecommerce
> systems. It uses FLEXY instead of Smarty and you have a choice of
> what components to buy.
> 
> Jose




From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Thu Feb 15 14:07:47 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:07:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
References: <C1FA0F74.AEB%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c75134$955567a0$07d6f4a7@ced>

Cliff,

What feature is it that you only foun in lite?

-Ed
Edward JS Prevost II
       -President-
www.CovenantEDesign.com
Consult at CovenantEDesign.com
518.331.5061
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions


> I am also using litecommerce, only because it has one particular feaure I
> could not find in any other cart. I'm going through the skinning process
now
> -- again, (2nd time, after having it done once outsourcing).
>
> Skinning does seem to be a royal pain. Not very stimulating...time
> consuming...redundant, etc.
>
> Issues to be aware of:
> 1. It is "97%" open-source. The core is encoded using ioncube.
> 2. Ioncube conflicts with Zend Debugger
> 3. It performs a license check.
>
> Cliff
>
>
> On 2/15/07 11:44 AM, "Jose Villegas" <jv_nyphp at duikerbok.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Ben,
> >
> > I would also take a look at LiteCommerce, which is based on XCart:
> > http://www.litecommerce.com/
> >
> > I've installed it a couple of times and it was relatively easy to
> > customize. The most important feature over OsCommerce/Zencart is that
> > it can keep track of inventory on product options. Skinning it is
> > very time consuming, but I think this is normal for most ecommerce
> > systems. It uses FLEXY instead of Smarty and you have a choice of
> > what components to buy.
> >
> > Jose
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>




From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Feb 15 14:47:02 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:47:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code
In-Reply-To: <6431a0f40702150934t3eb3fafchc406d233f506f917@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>	<20070215161445.GA16092@panix.com>
	<45D48A3B.9070301@gmx.net>
	<6431a0f40702150934t3eb3fafchc406d233f506f917@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D4B8B6.6010202@gmx.net>

Jiju Thomas Mathew wrote:
> 
>       > In general, good SQL is good SQL, no matter what the platform is.
> 
>     True, but not every platform delivers the same results when sending it
>     good SQL.
> 
> 
> David
> Can you explain.. I got only exposure with MySQL..
> 
> -- 
> Jiju Thomas Mathew
> http://www.php-trivandrum.org

 From my experience, MSSQL and MySQL potentially give you different 
results for the same SQL query. Or one gives you an empty set whereas 
the other throws an error. It comes down to what the interpretation of 
the required result is based on the perfectly fine SQL query. Whereas 
MySQL tends to be more to the SQL standard, MSSQL knows more SQL and 
SQLish dialects so that you can do more with less.

My point was that it doesn't come down to just good SQL.


From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Feb 15 15:52:50 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:52:50 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
In-Reply-To: <002a01c75134$955567a0$07d6f4a7@ced>
Message-ID: <C1FA3252.B0D%cliff@pinestream.com>

I need a "digital soft goods" feature. Lots of carts support software
downloads, but I need the ability to issue unique "PIN #s" for things like
phone cards, gift cards, etc. These aren't randomly generated (although they
could be), but are actually uniquely "picked" from inventory.

The litecommerce egoods module implements this feature really well.
Surprisingly Xcart doesn't, although the company will "develop" it for you
for a fee. (they probably have it in stock!). I got quotes both ways, and it
was cheaper to take the stock litecommerce, although I'd rather have 100%
open source code and Smarty templates, not Flexy. I may just have it
developed and flip to X-cart in the future. Or a full custom cart for
complete control.

I'm sure some oscommerce module has this, along with other carts. I looked
around and saw some half-baked versions, but couldn't find a good example
anywhere else. And oscommerce scares me. Didn't find a Zencart equivalent
either.

Btw, "reskinning" litecommerce now. Major tedium -- feels like a complete
waste of time, although I would guess its the same for most any
off-the-shelf cart.

On 2/15/07 2:07 PM, "CED" <Consult at CovenantEDesign.com> wrote:

> Cliff,
> 
> What feature is it that you only foun in lite?
> 
> -Ed
> Edward JS Prevost II
>        -President-
> www.CovenantEDesign.com
> Consult at CovenantEDesign.com
> 518.331.5061
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
> 
> 
>> I am also using litecommerce, only because it has one particular feaure I
>> could not find in any other cart. I'm going through the skinning process
> now
>> -- again, (2nd time, after having it done once outsourcing).
>> 
>> Skinning does seem to be a royal pain. Not very stimulating...time
>> consuming...redundant, etc.
>> 
>> Issues to be aware of:
>> 1. It is "97%" open-source. The core is encoded using ioncube.
>> 2. Ioncube conflicts with Zend Debugger
>> 3. It performs a license check.
>> 
>> Cliff
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/15/07 11:44 AM, "Jose Villegas" <jv_nyphp at duikerbok.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey Ben,
>>> 
>>> I would also take a look at LiteCommerce, which is based on XCart:
>>> http://www.litecommerce.com/
>>> 
>>> I've installed it a couple of times and it was relatively easy to
>>> customize. The most important feature over OsCommerce/Zencart is that
>>> it can keep track of inventory on product options. Skinning it is
>>> very time consuming, but I think this is normal for most ecommerce
>>> systems. It uses FLEXY instead of Smarty and you have a choice of
>>> what components to buy.
>>> 
>>> Jose




From ben at projectskyline.com  Thu Feb 15 16:52:46 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 16:52:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
References: <C1FA3252.B0D%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <00ef01c7514b$a0a36b90$6501a8c0@gamebox>

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I'm not even sure if I'll get the project, since my bid was prolly a little 
high and we dont
have much experiance in e-commerce.

However, its good to get my mind thinking about this stuff, incase we do 
something
in the future.

thanks again!

- Ben

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions


>I need a "digital soft goods" feature. Lots of carts support software
> downloads, but I need the ability to issue unique "PIN #s" for things like
> phone cards, gift cards, etc. These aren't randomly generated (although 
> they
> could be), but are actually uniquely "picked" from inventory.
>
> The litecommerce egoods module implements this feature really well.
> Surprisingly Xcart doesn't, although the company will "develop" it for you
> for a fee. (they probably have it in stock!). I got quotes both ways, and 
> it
> was cheaper to take the stock litecommerce, although I'd rather have 100%
> open source code and Smarty templates, not Flexy. I may just have it
> developed and flip to X-cart in the future. Or a full custom cart for
> complete control.
>
> I'm sure some oscommerce module has this, along with other carts. I looked
> around and saw some half-baked versions, but couldn't find a good example
> anywhere else. And oscommerce scares me. Didn't find a Zencart equivalent
> either.
>
> Btw, "reskinning" litecommerce now. Major tedium -- feels like a complete
> waste of time, although I would guess its the same for most any
> off-the-shelf cart.
>
> On 2/15/07 2:07 PM, "CED" <Consult at CovenantEDesign.com> wrote:
>
>> Cliff,
>>
>> What feature is it that you only foun in lite?
>>
>> -Ed
>> Edward JS Prevost II
>>        -President-
>> www.CovenantEDesign.com
>> Consult at CovenantEDesign.com
>> 518.331.5061
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
>> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
>>
>>
>>> I am also using litecommerce, only because it has one particular feaure 
>>> I
>>> could not find in any other cart. I'm going through the skinning process
>> now
>>> -- again, (2nd time, after having it done once outsourcing).
>>>
>>> Skinning does seem to be a royal pain. Not very stimulating...time
>>> consuming...redundant, etc.
>>>
>>> Issues to be aware of:
>>> 1. It is "97%" open-source. The core is encoded using ioncube.
>>> 2. Ioncube conflicts with Zend Debugger
>>> 3. It performs a license check.
>>>
>>> Cliff
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/15/07 11:44 AM, "Jose Villegas" <jv_nyphp at duikerbok.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Ben,
>>>>
>>>> I would also take a look at LiteCommerce, which is based on XCart:
>>>> http://www.litecommerce.com/
>>>>
>>>> I've installed it a couple of times and it was relatively easy to
>>>> customize. The most important feature over OsCommerce/Zencart is that
>>>> it can keep track of inventory on product options. Skinning it is
>>>> very time consuming, but I think this is normal for most ecommerce
>>>> systems. It uses FLEXY instead of Smarty and you have a choice of
>>>> what components to buy.
>>>>
>>>> Jose
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 



From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Feb 15 17:36:27 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:36:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best practice for escaping data
Message-ID: <a9caffe50702151436t6b73db79v25fdfa0841e7ec8c@mail.gmail.com>

I have custom-built CMS that I use on a lot of my website. Before I
commit any data to the database, I run each piece through specific
functions that contain a regular expression that accurately validates
the data.

checkPhoneNumber()
checkFaxNumber()
checkCurrency()
checkEmail()

You get the picture.

In all of the environments that I have worked in before,
magic_quoetes_gpc is set to 'On.' But in a new one we are working
with, it is off. No big deal, really, but I am running into a problem
with my function that validates fields that contain mixed data --
essentially text fields. The function is this:

	function validateMixed($value){
		$value=trim($value);
		$value=ini_get('magic_quotes_gpc') ? stripslashes($value) : $value;
		$pass=preg_match('/^[a-zA-Z0-9-<>_&,:@?=$#;&!\/\(\)\'\"\.\?\s+]+$/', $value);
		return $pass;
		}	

In order to work in this new environment, I just added addslashes() to
all of the data, but now it won't pass the validateMixed() function
because of the backslashes.

I guess what I'd really like to know is if this is the best way to do
this with these mixed fields.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From shiflett at php.net  Thu Feb 15 19:30:12 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:30:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best practice for escaping data
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50702151436t6b73db79v25fdfa0841e7ec8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50702151436t6b73db79v25fdfa0841e7ec8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D4FB14.6080207@php.net>

Randal Rust wrote:
> In order to work in this new environment, I just added
> addslashes() to all of the data, but now it won't pass the
> validateMixed() function because of the backslashes.

That sounds as bad as enabling magic quotes. There's a function on the
NYPHP web site called fix_magic_quotes() that you can use to repair data
that has been mangled:

http://nyphp.org/phundamentals/storingretrieving.php

As an aside, your filtering looks very lenient. What is the purpose of
that particular function?

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Feb 15 19:51:20 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:51:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best practice for escaping data
In-Reply-To: <45D4FB14.6080207@php.net>
References: <a9caffe50702151436t6b73db79v25fdfa0841e7ec8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D4FB14.6080207@php.net>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50702151651l6aee647cs40a9113e236a3ec8@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/15/07, Chris Shiflett <shiflett at php.net> wrote:

> http://nyphp.org/phundamentals/storingretrieving.php

Thanks for the link, Chris. I have been looking over your PHP security
book, the PHP Cookbook and Programming PHP tonight to try to refresh
myself on this topic. This article will help immensely.

> As an aside, your filtering looks very lenient. What is the purpose of
> that particular function?

That function basically is supposed to only allow the characters that
are included in the regex. The more and more I look at it, the more
and more I realize that it's just been bad from the start.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From shiflett at php.net  Thu Feb 15 19:57:03 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:57:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best practice for escaping data
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50702151651l6aee647cs40a9113e236a3ec8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50702151436t6b73db79v25fdfa0841e7ec8c@mail.gmail.com>	<45D4FB14.6080207@php.net>
	<a9caffe50702151651l6aee647cs40a9113e236a3ec8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D5015F.304@php.net>

Randal Rust wrote:
> That function basically is supposed to only allow the
> characters that are included in the regex. The more and
> more I look at it, the more and more I realize that it's
> just been bad from the start.

I'm wondering if you use it for completely free-form data, where you
don't have any particular rules that you can enforce. You mentioned
other functions for specific types of input.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Feb 15 20:04:47 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:04:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best practice for escaping data
In-Reply-To: <45D5015F.304@php.net>
References: <a9caffe50702151436t6b73db79v25fdfa0841e7ec8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D4FB14.6080207@php.net>
	<a9caffe50702151651l6aee647cs40a9113e236a3ec8@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D5015F.304@php.net>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50702151704t4bda22f7ve5e644448cc65936@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/15/07, Chris Shiflett <shiflett at php.net> wrote:

> I'm wondering if you use it for completely free-form data, where you
> don't have any particular rules that you can enforce.

Yes, that's what I use it for. Particular fields that I pass through
it are headline, subheadline, description -- basic fields for a news
article.

> You mentioned other functions for specific types of input.

Here is an example:

	function validateNumeric($value){
		$value=trim($value);
		$pass=preg_match('/^[0-9]+$/', $value);
		return $pass;
		}

And this one, which uses some things I picked up from your book:

	function validateAlpha($value){
		$value=trim($value);
		if(empty($value)){
			$pass=false;
			}
		elseif(!empty($value)){
			//$pass=preg_match('/^[a-zA-Z-]+$/', $value);
			$pass=ctype_alpha($value);
			}
		return $pass;
		}

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From shiflett at php.net  Thu Feb 15 20:34:14 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:34:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best practice for escaping data
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50702151704t4bda22f7ve5e644448cc65936@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50702151436t6b73db79v25fdfa0841e7ec8c@mail.gmail.com>	<45D4FB14.6080207@php.net>	<a9caffe50702151651l6aee647cs40a9113e236a3ec8@mail.gmail.com>	<45D5015F.304@php.net>
	<a9caffe50702151704t4bda22f7ve5e644448cc65936@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45D50A16.3090409@php.net>

Randal Rust wrote:
> Yes, that's what I use it for. Particular fields that I pass
> through it are headline, subheadline, description

All those characters might be in a headline? If so, carry on. If not, it
would be worth finding out (using historical data or something) how you
can restrict your criteria a bit more.

> function validateNumeric($value)
> {
>     $value = trim($value);
>     $pass = preg_match('/^[0-9]+$/', $value);
>     return $pass;
> }

I was going to say you might consider using ctype_digit(), but I guess
your use of "+" is a nice extra check. :-)

If 0 is not a valid value, you could always use ctype_digit() combined
with a simple conditional to ensure the value is > 0.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Feb 15 21:08:20 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 21:08:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best practice for escaping data
In-Reply-To: <45D50A16.3090409@php.net>
References: <a9caffe50702151436t6b73db79v25fdfa0841e7ec8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D4FB14.6080207@php.net>
	<a9caffe50702151651l6aee647cs40a9113e236a3ec8@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D5015F.304@php.net>
	<a9caffe50702151704t4bda22f7ve5e644448cc65936@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D50A16.3090409@php.net>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50702151808w48cb46a6sc664bf51802c9bf0@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/15/07, Chris Shiflett <shiflett at php.net> wrote:

> All those characters might be in a headline? If so, carry on.

Probably not, but people never cease to amaze me.

> it would be worth finding out (using historical data or something) how you
> can restrict your criteria a bit more.

So rather than use the one function for validating headline,
subheadline, etc. you are saying to create specific functions for
validating each of the fields?

The correct process would be to:

1. Run fix_magic_quotes() to ensure that all of the backslashes are
removed (if magic_quotes_gpc is on)
2. Run each piece of data through the appropriate function for validation
3. Re-insert the slashes using the database specific function

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From anoland at indigente.net  Thu Feb 15 23:01:16 2007
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:01:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Random MySQL question
In-Reply-To: <45D3BE33.9060604@n0p.net>
References: <1d8a0e930702141046u30e2951bl7fd9f0fcd935674d@mail.gmail.com>
	<66B0D5A5-5F96-40AC-9D9D-A813B05C5D97@jonbaer.com>
	<45D3764C.9020804@n0p.net>
	<324A5799-C44D-4C48-A4EC-2ACFA028E99D@jonbaer.com>
	<45D3BE33.9060604@n0p.net>
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930702152001n8302b86gadd653182fd10818@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks. This is precisely what I needed.

On 2/14/07, Flavio daCosta <nyphp at n0p.net> wrote:
> On 02/14/2007 05:14 PM, Jon Baer wrote:
> > Interesting how you can walk down the entire list to produce the order
> > you need like that.
>
> Yes, and to elaborate a bit more from my earlier post, you could put the
> series in the FIELD() and then sort strictly from that.
>
>
> SELECT
> 	id, categories
> FROM
> 	dd_categories
> WHERE
> 	id IN (21, 20, 13, 3, 22, 31)
> ORDER BY
> 	FIELD(id, 21, 20, 13, 3, 22, 31);
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Fri Feb 16 10:08:02 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:08:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OpenID PHP lib
Message-ID: <6012E76B-F0A4-490D-AC01-30914C145B4C@jonbaer.com>

Small question but has this worked well for anyone?

http://www.openidenabled.com/openid/libraries/php

Im trying to research about it but not sure what "Supports i-names"  
means (as in what an i-name is).

Anyone?

Thanks.

- Jon


From nhart at musicpf.org  Fri Feb 16 10:58:07 2007
From: nhart at musicpf.org (Nicholas Hart)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:58:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Report Writer?
In-Reply-To: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>
References: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <20070216105807.4c6egvv2iscskc0k@192.168.1.6>

Hi,

I am looking for a web-based report writer.  I am imagining something  
fairly simple that can save report titles, field headings, complex SQL  
and optionally print to HTML or PDF.  Any thoughts welcome.  Thanks!

Regards,
Nicholas Hart
<nhart at musicpf.org>







From dorgan at optonline.net  Fri Feb 16 11:15:04 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:15:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Report Writer?
In-Reply-To: <20070216105807.4c6egvv2iscskc0k@192.168.1.6>
References: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>
	<20070216105807.4c6egvv2iscskc0k@192.168.1.6>
Message-ID: <45D5D888.1070001@optonline.net>

Let me know if you find anything on your own, i've look and never really 
found anything.

Nicholas Hart wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a web-based report writer.  I am imagining something 
> fairly simple that can save report titles, field headings, complex SQL 
> and optionally print to HTML or PDF.  Any thoughts welcome.  Thanks!
>
> Regards,
> Nicholas Hart
> <nhart at musicpf.org>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From ben at projectskyline.com  Fri Feb 16 11:24:40 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:24:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Report Writer?
References: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net><20070216105807.4c6egvv2iscskc0k@192.168.1.6>
	<45D5D888.1070001@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <007801c751e6$f5943fd0$6501a8c0@gamebox>

Hello, 

You might try looking here: http://tinyurl.com/2uwawu

In particular, I found this class for html report generation from
SQL queries...not exactly what you asked for, but may help.

http://www.phpclasses.org/browse/package/1785.html

- Ben
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donald J Organ IV" <dorgan at optonline.net>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP Report Writer?


> Let me know if you find anything on your own, i've look and never really 
> found anything.
> 
> Nicholas Hart wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am looking for a web-based report writer.  I am imagining something 
>> fairly simple that can save report titles, field headings, complex SQL 
>> and optionally print to HTML or PDF.  Any thoughts welcome.  Thanks!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nicholas Hart
>> <nhart at musicpf.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From ken at secdat.com  Fri Feb 16 11:26:12 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:26:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Report Writer?
In-Reply-To: <45D5D888.1070001@optonline.net>
References: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>	<20070216105807.4c6egvv2iscskc0k@192.168.1.6>
	<45D5D888.1070001@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <45D5DB24.5000602@secdat.com>

Donald J Organ IV wrote:
> Let me know if you find anything on your own, i've look and never 
> really found anything.

Look deeper in that Andromeda you downloaded :)

>
> Nicholas Hart wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am looking for a web-based report writer.  I am imagining something 
>> fairly simple that can save report titles, field headings, complex 
>> SQL and optionally print to HTML or PDF.  Any thoughts welcome.  Thanks!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nicholas Hart
>> <nhart at musicpf.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From ken at secdat.com  Fri Feb 16 11:29:39 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:29:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Report Writer?
In-Reply-To: <20070216105807.4c6egvv2iscskc0k@192.168.1.6>
References: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>
	<20070216105807.4c6egvv2iscskc0k@192.168.1.6>
Message-ID: <45D5DBF3.5020005@secdat.com>

Nicholas Hart wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a web-based report writer.  I am imagining something 
> fairly simple that can save report titles, field headings, complex SQL 
> and optionally print to HTML or PDF.  Any thoughts welcome.  Thanks!

Andromeda contains a report writer.  However, the world has changed so 
much in the last 5 years that only one of my clients even knows what a 
report writer is! 

Therefore, it does not have the maturity things get when the've been 
beat up by the merciless masses.

But, there is some strong basic code for generating either HTML or PDF 
versions of things, grouping, totals, etc.  It assumes that it is 
reporting from an Andromeda database, but if you don't want to swallow 
the pill you can just take out the classes and tie off the references.



>
> Regards,
> Nicholas Hart
> <nhart at musicpf.org>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From dorgan at optonline.net  Fri Feb 16 11:42:17 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:42:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Report Writer?
In-Reply-To: <45D5DB24.5000602@secdat.com>
References: <45CC86CD.4000701@phpwerx.net>
	<20070216105807.4c6egvv2iscskc0k@192.168.1.6>
	<45D5D888.1070001@optonline.net> <45D5DB24.5000602@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <45D5DEE9.2050003@optonline.net>

I know that andromedia can do that

Kenneth Downs wrote:
> Donald J Organ IV wrote:
>> Let me know if you find anything on your own, i've look and never 
>> really found anything.
>
> Look deeper in that Andromeda you downloaded :)
>
>>
>> Nicholas Hart wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am looking for a web-based report writer.  I am imagining 
>>> something fairly simple that can save report titles, field headings, 
>>> complex SQL and optionally print to HTML or PDF.  Any thoughts 
>>> welcome.  Thanks!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nicholas Hart
>>> <nhart at musicpf.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>   


From patrick.fee at baesystems.com  Fri Feb 16 12:34:15 2007
From: patrick.fee at baesystems.com (Fee, Patrick J (US SSA))
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:34:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
References: <C1FA3252.B0D%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<00ef01c7514b$a0a36b90$6501a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71054DB284@blums0007.na.baesystems.com>

While we are on the topic of 'carts, I wanted to chime in.
I thought I could share a good experience with all of you.

A couple of years ago I need to put together a cart, but the customer
(a folk signing duo) wanted to do something without spending a lot of
money... and then expand later.

If you find yourself with zero time, or perhaps very little money, or
even hosting somewhere where SSL and a secure connection is not an
option, might I suggest Americart.

I was able to easily set up a catalog area that looked like the rest of
their site very easily, allow for different shipping and group rates and
specials.  And all the actual ordering and reception of the credit card
info happened on the Americart site for a flat fee.  Credit card info
could be done in real time (which they did later), or the info could be
stored securely and their office person could get it and run it through
the credit card machine in the office.

If this would ever help anyone, I'd be happy to get more detailed.  I
just thought someone might have to add a cart to an existing site on
spec, or with a miniscule budget, and this might help as a
platform/application independent interim solution.

Have a great day

Patrick J. Fee
IT Software Analysis Solutions Group Manager
Tel: (301) 231-1418
Cel: (240) 401-6820
Fax: (301) 231-2635
Patrick.Fee at BAESystems.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. 
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. 
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us."    
                         --- Marianne Williamson

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline)
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:53 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I'm not even sure if I'll get the project, since my bid was prolly a
little 
high and we dont
have much experiance in e-commerce.

However, its good to get my mind thinking about this stuff, incase we do

something
in the future.

thanks again!

- Ben

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions

>I need a "digital soft goods" feature. Lots of carts support software
> downloads, but I need the ability to issue unique "PIN #s" for things
like
> phone cards, gift cards, etc. These aren't randomly generated
(although 
> they
> could be), but are actually uniquely "picked" from inventory.
>
> The litecommerce egoods module implements this feature really well.
> Surprisingly Xcart doesn't, although the company will "develop" it for
you
> for a fee. (they probably have it in stock!). I got quotes both ways,
and 
> it
> was cheaper to take the stock litecommerce, although I'd rather have
100%
> open source code and Smarty templates, not Flexy. I may just have it
> developed and flip to X-cart in the future. Or a full custom cart for
> complete control.
>
> I'm sure some oscommerce module has this, along with other carts. I
looked
> around and saw some half-baked versions, but couldn't find a good
example
> anywhere else. And oscommerce scares me. Didn't find a Zencart
equivalent
> either.
>
> Btw, "reskinning" litecommerce now. Major tedium -- feels like a
complete
> waste of time, although I would guess its the same for most any
> off-the-shelf cart.
>
> On 2/15/07 2:07 PM, "CED" <Consult at CovenantEDesign.com> wrote:
>
>> Cliff,
>>
>> What feature is it that you only foun in lite?
>>
>> -Ed
>> Edward JS Prevost II
>>        -President-
>> www.CovenantEDesign.com
>> Consult at CovenantEDesign.com
>> 518.331.5061
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cliff Hirsch" <cliff at pinestream.com>
>> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/SQL ECommerce Solutions
>>
>>
>>> I am also using litecommerce, only because it has one particular
feaure 
>>> I
>>> could not find in any other cart. I'm going through the skinning
process
>> now
>>> -- again, (2nd time, after having it done once outsourcing).
>>>
>>> Skinning does seem to be a royal pain. Not very stimulating...time
>>> consuming...redundant, etc.
>>>
>>> Issues to be aware of:
>>> 1. It is "97%" open-source. The core is encoded using ioncube.
>>> 2. Ioncube conflicts with Zend Debugger
>>> 3. It performs a license check.
>>>
>>> Cliff
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/15/07 11:44 AM, "Jose Villegas" <jv_nyphp at duikerbok.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Ben,
>>>>
>>>> I would also take a look at LiteCommerce, which is based on XCart:
>>>> http://www.litecommerce.com/
>>>>
>>>> I've installed it a couple of times and it was relatively easy to
>>>> customize. The most important feature over OsCommerce/Zencart is
that
>>>> it can keep track of inventory on product options. Skinning it is
>>>> very time consuming, but I think this is normal for most ecommerce
>>>> systems. It uses FLEXY instead of Smarty and you have a choice of
>>>> what components to buy.
>>>>
>>>> Jose
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From abracadabra13 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 16 14:53:25 2007
From: abracadabra13 at gmail.com (AbraCadab Ra)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:53:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c1efefa883d1@192.168.1.102>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@192.168.1.102>
	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>
	<p06240809c1efaf3c76b4@192.168.1.102>
	<45CA0E8F.7080802@beaffinitive.com>
	<1d8a0e930702071133q4e80e27do8d44cf977e1768ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d8a0e930702071143r27a7fe61vf1998dea6f850e74@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240801c1efefa883d1@192.168.1.102>
Message-ID: <316533590702161153m24a76841xf9e4a181806f9fd2@mail.gmail.com>

I had the same question which i asked Rasmus after his talk at
NYPHPCON mid last year. His answer was that no. It does not made a
difference or at least it does not make enough of a difference to
bother with.

Cheers,
Yusuf.

On 2/7/07, tedd <tedd at sperling.com> wrote:
> >At 2:43 PM -0500 2/7/07, Adrian Noland wrote:
> >
> >I guess the answer is going to be "It depends" on what you are doing.
>
> I guess that the real answer is -- it really doesn't matter. It's one
> of those geek things that we get involved in that others roll their
> eyes about.
>
> Cheers,
>
> tedd
> --
> -------
> http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From shiflett at php.net  Fri Feb 16 15:04:18 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:04:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OpenID PHP lib
In-Reply-To: <6012E76B-F0A4-490D-AC01-30914C145B4C@jonbaer.com>
References: <6012E76B-F0A4-490D-AC01-30914C145B4C@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <45D60E42.90700@php.net>

Jon Baer wrote:
> Small question but has this worked well for anyone?
> 
> http://www.openidenabled.com/openid/libraries/php

I've been trying to compose a detailed email about this, but the short
answer is no, and I (coincidentally) was just looking at this last night.

I dug through the JanRain code quite a bit, and it's a bit bloated and
sloppy, but I think that's just a side-effect of the library having been
ported to a number of different languages, and clearly PHP wasn't the
original.

You might also be interested in Wez's much simpler code:

http://netevil.org/node.php?nid=949

Unless you're in an environment where you can apply his patch, you can
only implement the dumb mode (or do all of that big number math in PHP,
which seems wasteful and error-prone). I was hoping the JanRain library
would just work, since Wez's patch won't be an option for most people
until the next public release of PHP.

In other words, I feel your pain. Hope to have more to say soon - just
need to find time to play. :-)

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Fri Feb 16 19:20:20 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:20:20 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <316533590702161153m24a76841xf9e4a181806f9fd2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240806c1efa8c3f27d@192.168.1.102>	<0EC88047-A840-4C49-944A-389ECC2E3CC9@email.smith.edu>	<p06240809c1efaf3c76b4@192.168.1.102>	<45CA0E8F.7080802@beaffinitive.com>	<1d8a0e930702071133q4e80e27do8d44cf977e1768ee@mail.gmail.com>	<1d8a0e930702071143r27a7fe61vf1998dea6f850e74@mail.gmail.com>	<p06240801c1efefa883d1@192.168.1.102>
	<316533590702161153m24a76841xf9e4a181806f9fd2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7040-87607@sneakemail.com>

AbraCadab Ra abracadabra13-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| 
wrote:

> I had the same question which i asked Rasmus after his talk at
> NYPHPCON mid last year. His answer was that no. It does not made a
> difference or at least it does not make enough of a difference to
> bother with.
>
> Cheers,
> Yusuf.
>
> On 2/7/07, tedd <tedd at sperling.com> wrote:
>
>> >At 2:43 PM -0500 2/7/07, Adrian Noland wrote:
>> >
>> >I guess the answer is going to be "It depends" on what you are doing.
>>
>> I guess that the real answer is -- it really doesn't matter. It's one
>> of those geek things that we get involved in that others roll their
>> eyes about.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> tedd
>> -- 
>> ------- 
>
>

No there's an example of top-posting worthy of praise for it's didactic 
value.

-=john andrews



From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Feb 17 10:17:31 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:17:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070217151731.GA25869@panix.com>

On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 06:39:47PM -0500, Adrian Noland wrote:
> $content = "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
> $content .= "another line";
> $content .= "yet another";
> echo $content;

If you're just echoing somehting out there is no point in wasting 
resources/time/etc putting it in a variable.


> echo "this is the start of a bunch of lines";
> echo "another line";
> echo "yet another";

Everyone here is ignoring the fact that you can concatenate output:

   echo 'this is the start of a bunch of lines'
        . 'another line'
        . 'yet another';

Or use the here doc mentioned before:

   echo <<<THE_END
this is the start of a bunch of lines
another line
yet another
THE_END;

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From lists at silmail.com  Sat Feb 17 12:34:56 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 23:04:56 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <20070217151731.GA25869@panix.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070217151731.GA25869@panix.com>
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702170934k7080d745u67b3e24f20649f98@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
>    echo <<<THE_END
> this is the start of a bunch of lines
> another line
> yet another
> THE_END;



or even jump out of code and then in
?>
this is the start of a bunch of lines
another line
yet another
<?


-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
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From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sun Feb 18 11:07:57 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:07:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best practice for escaping data
In-Reply-To: <45D50A16.3090409@php.net>
References: <a9caffe50702151436t6b73db79v25fdfa0841e7ec8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D4FB14.6080207@php.net>
	<a9caffe50702151651l6aee647cs40a9113e236a3ec8@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D5015F.304@php.net>
	<a9caffe50702151704t4bda22f7ve5e644448cc65936@mail.gmail.com>
	<45D50A16.3090409@php.net>
Message-ID: <20070218160756.GA25223@panix.com>

On Thu, Feb 15, 2007 at 08:34:14PM -0500, Chris Shiflett wrote:

> I was going to say you might consider using ctype_digit(), but I guess
> your use of "+" is a nice extra check. :-)

I remember the ctype* functions not working properly when I tried them at 
some point, though I can't recall what the issue was exactly.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From nate at cakephp.org  Sun Feb 18 12:09:53 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:09:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: talk Digest, Vol 4, Issue 37
In-Reply-To: <20070218165711.E8EA110A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070218165711.E8EA110A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <22C04A08-6F2E-4DAE-8F0A-901BB930BBE7@cakephp.org>

Yeah, I just ran into this recently.  The ctype functions are part of  
an extension that doesn't seem to be installed by default on some  
Linux builds.

> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:07:57 -0500
> From: Daniel Convissor <danielc at analysisandsolutions.com>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Best practice for escaping data
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2007 at 08:34:14PM -0500, Chris Shiflett wrote:
>
>> I was going to say you might consider using ctype_digit(), but I  
>> guess
>> your use of "+" is a nice extra check. :-)
>
> I remember the ctype* functions not working properly when I tried  
> them at
> some point, though I can't recall what the issue was exactly.
>
> --Dan



From lists at silmail.com  Sun Feb 18 12:54:31 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:24:31 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] yui or yui-ext php framework
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702180954r7ac1ae26g5fd010c0e02f3f0e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Anybody out there know about such a thing....

Regards
-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
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From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Sun Feb 18 13:21:04 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:21:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] yui or yui-ext php framework
In-Reply-To: <6431a0f40702180954r7ac1ae26g5fd010c0e02f3f0e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6431a0f40702180954r7ac1ae26g5fd010c0e02f3f0e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F1A1BFA4-D4D5-495D-B66D-35C28A864AA9@jonbaer.com>

It's a conspiracy @ Yahoo! to reproduce identical Java Swing code in  
PHP5 using only the YUI libraries ;-)

http://www.yui-ext.com/deploy/yui-ext/docs/

I think @ this point any web developer is either learning 90% of 1  
single framework (YUI, jQuery, Prototype) or ~25% of all of them.

- Jon

On Feb 18, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Jiju Thomas Mathew wrote:

> Hi
>
> Anybody out there know about such a thing....
>
> Regards
> -- 
> Jiju Thomas Mathew
> http://www.php-trivandrum.org
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From lists at silmail.com  Sun Feb 18 13:25:45 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:55:45 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] yui or yui-ext php framework
In-Reply-To: <F1A1BFA4-D4D5-495D-B66D-35C28A864AA9@jonbaer.com>
References: <6431a0f40702180954r7ac1ae26g5fd010c0e02f3f0e@mail.gmail.com>
	<F1A1BFA4-D4D5-495D-B66D-35C28A864AA9@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702181025l6c57349dqfe9c725e8cafd5f7@mail.gmail.com>

>
> It's a conspiracy @ Yahoo! to reproduce identical Java Swing code in PHP5
> using only the YUI libraries ;-)
>
> http://www.yui-ext.com/deploy/yui-ext/docs/
>
> I think @ this point any web developer is either learning 90% of 1 single
> framework (YUI, jQuery, Prototype) or ~25% of all of them.
>

Sorry if I misled you, I meant, to ask, whether any one know about a php
framework which supports yui or yui-ext, ie; use the user interface in yui,
with functionality in php. Never meant about reverse engineering or
conspiracy..


-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
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From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Sun Feb 18 13:42:15 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:42:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] yui or yui-ext php framework
In-Reply-To: <6431a0f40702181025l6c57349dqfe9c725e8cafd5f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6431a0f40702180954r7ac1ae26g5fd010c0e02f3f0e@mail.gmail.com>
	<F1A1BFA4-D4D5-495D-B66D-35C28A864AA9@jonbaer.com>
	<6431a0f40702181025l6c57349dqfe9c725e8cafd5f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0A2CF8AF-E815-472F-A743-EA668DC4D140@jonbaer.com>

Well I think the trend in any of the PHP frameworks is to let you  
pick and choose which JavaScript UI library you want to use (and not  
forcefully decide for you & proxy it out w/ your own helpers) ... ie

<?php echo $javascript->link('yui/ext/Widget') ?>

The thing about the YUI classes is that when they are full blown  
widgets it leads to having to reproduce (not DRY) alot of that  
customization code in PHP again when you are probably only going to  
use little of it.  With that in mind CakePHP is very flexible like  
that but does not have a library built in to reproduce the YUI  
widgets but think it would not be hard to create a helper to do (so  
in a nutshell it "supports" all the JS libs).

(+ the conspiracy was just a bad joke ;-)

- Jon

On Feb 18, 2007, at 1:25 PM, Jiju Thomas Mathew wrote:

> It's a conspiracy @ Yahoo! to reproduce identical Java Swing code  
> in PHP5 using only the YUI libraries ;-)
>
> http://www.yui-ext.com/deploy/yui-ext/docs/
>
> I think @ this point any web developer is either learning 90% of 1  
> single framework (YUI, jQuery, Prototype) or ~25% of all of them.
>
> Sorry if I misled you, I meant, to ask, whether any one know about  
> a php framework which supports yui or yui-ext, ie; use the user  
> interface in yui, with functionality in php. Never meant about  
> reverse engineering or conspiracy..
>
>
> -- 
> Jiju Thomas Mathew
> http://www.php-trivandrum.org
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

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From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Feb 19 16:38:25 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:38:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Shopping cart -- revisited...again...
Message-ID: <20070219213825.M43720@pinestream.com>

Like many on here, the whole shopping cart thing is a mess to me.

So...I just installed litecommerce, which was fairly painless. And changing
the templates, which use Flexy, was fairly easy. But deciphering the PHP code
is a nightmare. Who ever said OOP is easy? It just seems to obfuscate the
meaning of things. Something as simple as tracking down the origin of
order.details.error, which is in a template, becomes maddening.

I?m on the verge of trying another cart, mainly because the ioncube-encoded
files conflict with Zend Remote debugging. And without this, trying to trace
the code using live interactions seems impossible. I?m sure this happens to
everyone, but what seems like a simple feature list grows and grows... But the
primary special requirements I have are the following:

Single sign-on ? means all authentication goes through the primary site. So
far, I have hacked this by duplicating user info in the main site and the
shopping cart user profiles. Not optimal, but functional. 
Custom payment processor ? just a call to a function on the main site. Again,
nothing mind-shattering 
Modified checkout to simply include shipping address fields ? again, no biggie 
egoods pin #s support (the reason I choose litecommerce ? they offer a module
that does this well) 
Meaningful error messages ? meaning modern validation used on my main site.

None of these are overly complex. The challenging part is understanding
someone else?s code and mindset. The devil is in the details... I have also
discovered that integrating a shopping cart with anything other than simple
static functions from a primary site can lead to all sorts of config
conflicts, from phpini on upwards. Dated PHP4 code...can you say e-warning...

So...a general call for help and recommendations.

I am thinking of getting X-Cart because at least it is fully open source. But
it?s developed by the same people, so the code may be equally confusing.
OSCommerce and its derivatives are out ? too many bad stories. Any other
ideas? Is it too much to ask for a great, easy to modify cart? The cost of the
cart is trivial compared to the cost of the custom code, time, maintenance,
aggravation, etc.

Happy holiday,
Cliff


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Feb 19 19:52:08 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:52:08 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Shopping cart -- revisited...again...
In-Reply-To: <20070219213825.M43720@pinestream.com>
References: <20070219213825.M43720@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <14560-81167@sneakemail.com>

Cliff Hirsch cliff-at-pinestream.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>Like many on here, the whole shopping cart thing is a mess to me.
>
>So...I just installed litecommerce, which was fairly painless. And changing
>the templates, which use Flexy, was fairly easy. But deciphering the PHP code
>is a nightmare. Who ever said OOP is easy? It just seems to obfuscate the
>meaning of things. Something as simple as tracking down the origin of
>order.details.error, which is in a template, becomes maddening.
>
>I?m on the verge of trying another cart, mainly because the ioncube-encoded
>files conflict with Zend Remote debugging. And without this, trying to trace
>the code using live interactions seems impossible. I?m sure this happens to
>everyone, but what seems like a simple feature list grows and grows... But the
>primary special requirements I have are the following:
>
>Single sign-on ? means all authentication goes through the primary site. So
>far, I have hacked this by duplicating user info in the main site and the
>shopping cart user profiles. Not optimal, but functional. 
>Custom payment processor ? just a call to a function on the main site. Again,
>nothing mind-shattering 
>Modified checkout to simply include shipping address fields ? again, no biggie 
>egoods pin #s support (the reason I choose litecommerce ? they offer a module
>that does this well) 
>Meaningful error messages ? meaning modern validation used on my main site.
>
>None of these are overly complex. The challenging part is understanding
>someone else?s code and mindset. The devil is in the details... I have also
>discovered that integrating a shopping cart with anything other than simple
>static functions from a primary site can lead to all sorts of config
>conflicts, from phpini on upwards. Dated PHP4 code...can you say e-warning...
>
>So...a general call for help and recommendations.
>
>I am thinking of getting X-Cart because at least it is fully open source. But
>it?s developed by the same people, so the code may be equally confusing.
>OSCommerce and its derivatives are out ? too many bad stories. Any other
>ideas? Is it too much to ask for a great, easy to modify cart? The cost of the
>cart is trivial compared to the cost of the custom code, time, maintenance,
>aggravation, etc.
>
>Happy holiday,
>Cliff
>
I think as far as shopping carts are concerned, we are in the era of 
charge by the hour programming. That is where the money is.

I also think it's time to redo the ecommerce platform. We have moved far 
beyong where we were when OSCommerce was built, and far beyond skinning 
(Zen cart). We don't need a new model for a shopping cart based *web 
site*, but a new model for ecommerce functions we can integrate into our 
modern web sites. To me that is *not* Shopify et al., because they 
charge too much without assuming much if any of the risk in a 
transaction. A few percentage points might seem like little at first, 
but if it is cream off the top and doesn't reduce liability, it's waste 
and waste needs to be eliminated. I think it is foolish to take on a 
recurring cost for design (eventhough that is a sweet deal for them).

Right now every successful store I see is hand coded from scratch, and 
severely platform dependent. I don't see a lot, but I've seen a dozen or 
so in 6 months.






From paul at devonianfarm.com  Mon Feb 19 20:13:08 2007
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul Houle)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:13:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best practice for escaping data
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50702151808w48cb46a6sc664bf51802c9bf0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50702151436t6b73db79v25fdfa0841e7ec8c@mail.gmail.com>	<45D4FB14.6080207@php.net>	<a9caffe50702151651l6aee647cs40a9113e236a3ec8@mail.gmail.com>	<45D5015F.304@php.net>	<a9caffe50702151704t4bda22f7ve5e644448cc65936@mail.gmail.com>	<45D50A16.3090409@php.net>
	<a9caffe50702151808w48cb46a6sc664bf51802c9bf0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45DA4B24.9030805@devonianfarm.com>

Randal Rust wrote:
>
> The correct process would be to:
>
> 1. Run fix_magic_quotes() to ensure that all of the backslashes are
> removed (if magic_quotes_gpc is on)
> 2. Run each piece of data through the appropriate function for validation
> 3. Re-insert the slashes using the database specific function
>
    A lot depends on the database you use.  If you use mysql,  you can 
write something like

update x set y='5' where z='50';

where y and z are integer columns of x.

    Postgresql,  MS SQL and many other databases won't accept that.  If 
you're writing your own SQL,  you'll need to quote strings and validate 
numbers.

    Many people claim it's a 'best practice' to use a database API that 
supports place holders...  For instance,  in ADODB,  you can write

$db->Execute("
    Update x set
         y=?
    where
        z=?
",array($y,$z));

    This seems to get good results with MySQL and MS SQL,  but doesn't 
work with access if the fields are numeric.

    Using placeholders is certainly better than not quoting,  but my 
experience is that placeholders + changing code = defects.  Imagine you
write something like

$db->Execute("
    Update x set
       a=?,
       ...24 columns ..
       z=?
    where
       aa=?
       AND ab=?
       AND ac=?
",array($a,$b,$c,$d,...$ac));

    Once you're writing them by the hundreds,  you'll find that it's 
tiresome and error-prone to write your own UPDATE and INSERT 
statements...  Lately I've been using a homebrew active record class 
that lets me write code like

$table=$ar_db->get("characters");
$row=$table->new_record();
$row->firstname="Genma";
$row->lastname="Saotome";
$row->age=45;
$row->insert();

    If I'm using auto-increment columns, with mysql,  I can pick up the 
id  with

$last_insert_id=$row->id;

    In this approach,  strings get quoted and numbers get validated --

$row->age="Forty-Five";

    causes an exception to be thrown.  The real advantage that comes out 
of the active record is that you can build your update/inserts in an 
additive way

$row=$table->new_record();
assign_columns_from_form_elements($row);
assign_complicated_multipart_key($row);
assign_timestamp($row);
$row->insert();

------------

    All that said,  it's a good thing to validate your data;  MySQL, for 
instance,  doesn't throw an error when it gets a bad date,  but it 
stores '0000-00-00',  which probably isn't the behavior you want.  If 
you want your application to behave predictably,  it's good to keep bad 
data out.


   




From paul at devonianfarm.com  Mon Feb 19 20:22:46 2007
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul Houle)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:22:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702070835k293c6ff7pc01ab9a976393620@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>	<45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>
	<b76252690702070835k293c6ff7pc01ab9a976393620@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45DA4D66.5080006@devonianfarm.com>

csnyder wrote:
> Depending on what q() does (output or return?) it might be more
> natural to use <?=q($var)?>. Usually in the context of templates I
> like to see functions returning so that output is completely under my
> control.
    Some PHP installations support the short tags <? ?> and <?= ?> and 
others don't.  If you want to write code that runs everywhere,  you have 
to use <?php ... ?>

    My q() function is (more-or-less) a shorthand for 
echo(htmlspecialchars()),  with special handling for empty values.  It's 
probably an over-aggressive grab of namespace,  but it makes it easy to 
develop a company-wide habit of writing code that resists XSS attacks.  
(The 'prototyping' of PHP?)

    Here's a fun fact about <?php that I figured out recently:  I always 
used to write include files like

<?php

...define some functions...
...define some classes...
...set a few global variables ...

?>[EOF]

    where [EOF] is the end of the file.

    The trouble was that from time to time,  people using certain 
editors would cause spaces and carriage returns to appear after the ?>.  
This had the obnoxious effect of opening the output stream and making it 
possible to send http headers,  set cookies and do other important things.

    One day I discovered that I didn't need the "?>"...  I could just write

<?php

... PHP code...
[EOF]

    And it works just fine.  It scared the people at the office,  but 
they were glad to be rid of a nagging problem.


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Mon Feb 19 23:07:28 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 23:07:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <45DA4D66.5080006@devonianfarm.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>	<45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>	<b76252690702070835k293c6ff7pc01ab9a976393620@mail.gmail.com>
	<45DA4D66.5080006@devonianfarm.com>
Message-ID: <45DA7400.7060703@beaffinitive.com>

>    One day I discovered that I didn't need the "?>"...  I could just 
> write
>
> <?php
>
> ... PHP code...
> [EOF]
This technique is part of the coding standard for the Zend Framework.  
Seems like a good standard to follow: 
<http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/PHP+Coding+Standard+%28draft%29#PHPCodingStandard%28draft%29-PHPFileFormatting>



From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Mon Feb 19 23:24:29 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 23:24:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>	<45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>	<b76252690702070835k293c6ff7pc01ab9a976393620@mail.gmail.com><45DA4D66.5080006@devonianfarm.com>
	<45DA7400.7060703@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <000801c754a7$03e465c0$07d6f4a7@ced>

Why do you say that the end of file tag is a good standard?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Marscher" <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory


> >    One day I discovered that I didn't need the "?>"...  I could just
> > write
> >
> > <?php
> >
> > ... PHP code...
> > [EOF]
> This technique is part of the coding standard for the Zend Framework.
> Seems like a good standard to follow:
>
<http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/PHP+Coding+Standard+%28draft%2
9#PHPCodingStandard%28draft%29-PHPFileFormatting>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>




From dorgan at optonline.net  Tue Feb 20 09:41:18 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:41:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
Message-ID: <45DB088E.5030708@optonline.net>

I think everyone should check this out and install it what  a great idea 
these guys have

http://www.fon.com


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Tue Feb 20 10:08:18 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:08:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <45DB088E.5030708@optonline.net>
References: <45DB088E.5030708@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <45DB0EE2.6080300@phpwerx.net>

Donald J Organ IV wrote:
> I think everyone should check this out and install it what  a great idea
> these guys have
> 
> http://www.fon.com

1. How is this php related?

2. How about a little information rather than just a link and some
generic text?

Dan


From dorgan at optonline.net  Tue Feb 20 10:30:54 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:30:54 -0500
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <45DB0EE2.6080300@phpwerx.net>
References: <45DB088E.5030708@optonline.net> <45DB0EE2.6080300@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <45DB142E.20104@optonline.net>

I am sorry I mean to include OT in the subject.

Dan Cech wrote:
> Donald J Organ IV wrote:
>   
>> I think everyone should check this out and install it what  a great idea
>> these guys have
>>
>> http://www.fon.com
>>     
>
> 1. How is this php related?
>
> 2. How about a little information rather than just a link and some
> generic text?
>
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>   


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Tue Feb 20 11:13:39 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:13:39 -0500
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <45DB142E.20104@optonline.net>
References: <45DB088E.5030708@optonline.net> <45DB0EE2.6080300@phpwerx.net>
	<45DB142E.20104@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <45DB1E33.2040809@cyberxdesigns.com>

Great it is OT.  But what does this have to do with PHP and how about a 
little description?

Donald J Organ IV wrote:
> I am sorry I mean to include OT in the subject.
>


From dorgan at optonline.net  Tue Feb 20 11:24:53 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:24:53 -0500
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <45DB1E33.2040809@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45DB088E.5030708@optonline.net> <45DB0EE2.6080300@phpwerx.net>
	<45DB142E.20104@optonline.net> <45DB1E33.2040809@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <45DB20D5.6030209@optonline.net>

It doesnt have anything to do with PHP....

But what it does allow for is for setting up public ally accessible 
wi-fi that you can share with other FON members, if you have a FON 
access point setup you can get free wi-fi access from any other FON 
access point anywhere in the world.

The access point allows you to specify a specific portion on your 
bandwidth that can be used for the public wi-fi, and sets up a 
completely different wi-fi network that does not have acces to other 
wired computers on the network, this can be disabled by default.

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
> Great it is OT.  But what does this have to do with PHP and how about 
> a little description?
>
> Donald J Organ IV wrote:
>> I am sorry I mean to include OT in the subject.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Tue Feb 20 11:48:49 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:48:49 -0500
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <45DB20D5.6030209@optonline.net>
References: <45DB088E.5030708@optonline.net> <45DB0EE2.6080300@phpwerx.net>
	<45DB142E.20104@optonline.net> <45DB1E33.2040809@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<45DB20D5.6030209@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <411B1E61-9355-426D-9FC7-1555BC4E8CE6@email.smith.edu>

So when you are working on a PHP project and you are away from your  
office or home, you can still be productive (for free).   =)


On Feb 20, 2007, at 11:24 AM, Donald J Organ IV wrote:

> But what it does allow for is for setting up public ally accessible  
> wi-fi that you can share with other FON members, if you have a FON  
> access point setup you can get free wi-fi access from any other FON  
> access point anywhere in the world.
>

> Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>> Great it is OT.  But what does this have to do with PHP and how  
>> about a little description?
>>
>> Donald J Organ IV wrote:
>>> I am sorry I mean to include OT in the subject.
>>>



From dorgan at optonline.net  Tue Feb 20 11:59:26 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:59:26 -0500
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <411B1E61-9355-426D-9FC7-1555BC4E8CE6@email.smith.edu>
References: <45DB088E.5030708@optonline.net> <45DB0EE2.6080300@phpwerx.net>
	<45DB142E.20104@optonline.net> <45DB1E33.2040809@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<45DB20D5.6030209@optonline.net>
	<411B1E61-9355-426D-9FC7-1555BC4E8CE6@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <45DB28EE.5040104@optonline.net>

Yes exactly....lol


Aaron Fischer wrote:
> So when you are working on a PHP project and you are away from your 
> office or home, you can still be productive (for free).   =)
>
>
> On Feb 20, 2007, at 11:24 AM, Donald J Organ IV wrote:
>
>> But what it does allow for is for setting up public ally accessible 
>> wi-fi that you can share with other FON members, if you have a FON 
>> access point setup you can get free wi-fi access from any other FON 
>> access point anywhere in the world.
>>
>
>> Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>>> Great it is OT.  But what does this have to do with PHP and how 
>>> about a little description?
>>>
>>> Donald J Organ IV wrote:
>>>> I am sorry I mean to include OT in the subject.
>>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From nate at cakephp.org  Tue Feb 20 12:07:22 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:07:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: talk Digest, Vol 4, Issue 39
In-Reply-To: <20070220162334.A953910A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070220162334.A953910A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <3CCC27FA-1C7F-4453-A17E-1896D3932625@cakephp.org>

The days of the one-size-fits-all shopping cart are dead.  What's  
needed is a toolkit which provides developers with the basic  
functionality required to implement a cart, i.e. payment processing  
libraries, interfaces to shipping APIs, customer authentication and  
order persistence.  If done right, a solution like this could allow  
developers to get up and running faster than would be possible with  
an entirely custom solution *or* a canned solution.  Not to mention  
it would be much more extensible and maintainable over the long-term.

- Nate

> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:52:08 -0800
> From: "inforequest" <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Shopping cart -- revisited...again...
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
>
> Cliff Hirsch cliff-at-pinestream.com |nyphp dev/internal group use|  
> wrote:
>
>> Like many on here, the whole shopping cart thing is a mess to me.
>>
>> So...I just installed litecommerce, which was fairly painless. And  
>> changing
>> the templates, which use Flexy, was fairly easy. But deciphering  
>> the PHP code
>> is a nightmare. Who ever said OOP is easy? It just seems to  
>> obfuscate the
>> meaning of things. Something as simple as tracking down the origin of
>> order.details.error, which is in a template, becomes maddening.
>>
>> .....................
>>
>> I am thinking of getting X-Cart because at least it is fully open  
>> source. But
>> it?s developed by the same people, so the code may be equally  
>> confusing.
>> OSCommerce and its derivatives are out ? too many bad stories. Any  
>> other
>> ideas? Is it too much to ask for a great, easy to modify cart? The  
>> cost of the
>> cart is trivial compared to the cost of the custom code, time,  
>> maintenance,
>> aggravation, etc.
>>
>> Happy holiday,
>> Cliff
>>
> I think as far as shopping carts are concerned, we are in the era of
> charge by the hour programming. That is where the money is.
>
> I also think it's time to redo the ecommerce platform. We have  
> moved far
> beyong where we were when OSCommerce was built, and far beyond  
> skinning
> (Zen cart). We don't need a new model for a shopping cart based *web
> site*, but a new model for ecommerce functions we can integrate  
> into our
> modern web sites. To me that is *not* Shopify et al., because they
> charge too much without assuming much if any of the risk in a
> transaction. A few percentage points might seem like little at first,
> but if it is cream off the top and doesn't reduce liability, it's  
> waste
> and waste needs to be eliminated. I think it is foolish to take on a
> recurring cost for design (eventhough that is a sweet deal for them).
>
> Right now every successful store I see is hand coded from scratch, and
> severely platform dependent. I don't see a lot, but I've seen a  
> dozen or
> so in 6 months.



From tedd at sperling.com  Tue Feb 20 12:51:46 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:51:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <45DA4D66.5080006@devonianfarm.com>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>
	<45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>
	<b76252690702070835k293c6ff7pc01ab9a976393620@mail.gmail.com>
	<45DA4D66.5080006@devonianfarm.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c200e43b4e27@[192.168.1.102]>

At 8:22 PM -0500 2/19/07, Paul Houle wrote:
>    Here's a fun fact about <?php that I figured out recently:  I 
>always used to write include files like
>
><?php
>
>...define some functions...
>...define some classes...
>...set a few global variables ...
>
>?>[EOF]
>
>    where [EOF] is the end of the file.
>
>    The trouble was that from time to time,  people using certain 
>editors would cause spaces and carriage returns to appear after the 
>?>.  This had the obnoxious effect of opening the output stream and 
>making it possible to send http headers,  set cookies and do other 
>important things.
>
>    One day I discovered that I didn't need the "?>"...  I could just write
>
><?php
>
>... PHP code...
>[EOF]
>
>    And it works just fine.  It scared the people at the office,  but 
>they were glad to be rid of a nagging problem.

That has always bothered me. I like symmetrical stuff. I start stuff, 
I finish stuff.

<start></start>
{
}
()

But, the idea that one purposely leaves something hanging, is


tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Tue Feb 20 13:04:59 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:04:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] testing a theory
In-Reply-To: <p06240805c200e43b4e27@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <1d8a0e930702061539l19a3652oe665d1a155069e9a@mail.gmail.com>	<7.0.1.0.0.20070206210534.0239a0c8@e-government.com>	<45C94119.2080909@devonianfarm.com>	<b76252690702070835k293c6ff7pc01ab9a976393620@mail.gmail.com>	<45DA4D66.5080006@devonianfarm.com>
	<p06240805c200e43b4e27@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <45DB384B.8040105@phpwerx.net>

tedd wrote:
> At 8:22 PM -0500 2/19/07, Paul Houle wrote:
>>    Here's a fun fact about <?php that I figured out recently:  I
>> always used to write include files like
>>
>> <?php
>>
>> ...define some functions...
>> ...define some classes...
>> ...set a few global variables ...
>>
>> ?>[EOF]
>>
>>    where [EOF] is the end of the file.
>>
>>    The trouble was that from time to time,  people using certain
>> editors would cause spaces and carriage returns to appear after the
>> ?>.  This had the obnoxious effect of opening the output stream and
>> making it possible to send http headers,  set cookies and do other
>> important things.
>>
>>    One day I discovered that I didn't need the "?>"...  I could just
>> write
>>
>> <?php
>>
>> ... PHP code...
>> [EOF]
>>
>>    And it works just fine.  It scared the people at the office,  but
>> they were glad to be rid of a nagging problem.
> 
> That has always bothered me. I like symmetrical stuff. I start stuff, I
> finish stuff.
> 
> <start></start>
> {
> }
> ()
> 
> But, the idea that one purposely leaves something hanging, is
> 
> 
> tedd

Of course, and that is why I have standardized on a practice of ending
include files with the following:

// end of script

followed by a single linefeed (I use linux-style newlines in all php
files, and enforce the same in SVN.

Dan


From ajai at bitblit.net  Tue Feb 20 13:54:51 2007
From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:54:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <45DB28EE.5040104@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0702201348130.19406-100000@bitblit.net>


Ive been a FON member (and node) for over several months now. They had a 
special offer on the WiFi router for awhile (something like $15 for the 
TINY router). It was totally plug-n-play - you can use it with zero setup.

By default, it creates a private (WEP) network and a separate public 
network. You can choose whether to offer free access to other FON members 
(Linus mode: thereby giving you free acess on other members' nodes) or you 
can run on "Bill" mode and make a few $).

I actually found the coverage was better than with my Netgear wireless 
bridge so I ripped out the Netgear completely.


-- 
Aj. (ajai at bitblit.net)



From dorgan at optonline.net  Tue Feb 20 14:46:13 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:46:13 -0500
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0702201348130.19406-100000@bitblit.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0702201348130.19406-100000@bitblit.net>
Message-ID: <45DB5005.2050907@optonline.net>

Sounds interesting, I just used the firmware they provide, and installed 
it on my linksys wrt45g router.

Ajai Khattri wrote:
> Ive been a FON member (and node) for over several months now. They had a 
> special offer on the WiFi router for awhile (something like $15 for the 
> TINY router). It was totally plug-n-play - you can use it with zero setup.
>
> By default, it creates a private (WEP) network and a separate public 
> network. You can choose whether to offer free access to other FON members 
> (Linus mode: thereby giving you free acess on other members' nodes) or you 
> can run on "Bill" mode and make a few $).
>
> I actually found the coverage was better than with my Netgear wireless 
> bridge so I ripped out the Netgear completely.
>
>
>   


From ajai at bitblit.net  Tue Feb 20 15:31:16 2007
From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:31:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <45DB5005.2050907@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0702201531020.19406-100000@bitblit.net>

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, Donald J Organ IV wrote:

> Sounds interesting, I just used the firmware they provide, and installed 
> it on my linksys wrt45g router.

So its Linux-based?


-- 
Aj. (ajai at bitblit.net)



From dorgan at optonline.net  Tue Feb 20 15:45:09 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:45:09 -0500
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0702201531020.19406-100000@bitblit.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0702201531020.19406-100000@bitblit.net>
Message-ID: <45DB5DD5.5030503@optonline.net>

Yes it uses openwrt.

Ajai Khattri wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, Donald J Organ IV wrote:
>
>   
>> Sounds interesting, I just used the firmware they provide, and installed 
>> it on my linksys wrt45g router.
>>     
>
> So its Linux-based?
>
>
>   


From codebowl at gmail.com  Tue Feb 20 16:30:44 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:30:44 -0500
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <45DB5DD5.5030503@optonline.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0702201531020.19406-100000@bitblit.net>
	<45DB5DD5.5030503@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702201330y7f07237dn969bd30fdf2bc2d9@mail.gmail.com>

this will be nice when there are more access points in my area lol there are
2 right now, is there a list of how many are in the USA?

access points will only help in remote area's like mine if you are in your
car and find it and stop to use it.  I am in a residential area and the
signal i am sure does not transmit that far.  I am not sure i would want to
attract people to sitting in their cars outside of my house ;)
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From dorgan at optonline.net  Tue Feb 20 16:44:22 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:44:22 -0500
Subject: OT: Re: [nycphp-talk] Fon Project
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702201330y7f07237dn969bd30fdf2bc2d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0702201531020.19406-100000@bitblit.net>
	<45DB5DD5.5030503@optonline.net>
	<8d9a42800702201330y7f07237dn969bd30fdf2bc2d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45DB6BB6.5020506@optonline.net>

There are also two in my area, well 3 come tonight once i finish setting 
mine up.

Joseph Crawford wrote:
> this will be nice when there are more access points in my area lol 
> there are 2 right now, is there a list of how many are in the USA?
>
> access points will only help in remote area's like mine if you are in 
> your car and find it and stop to use it.  I am in a residential area 
> and the signal i am sure does not transmit that far.  I am not sure i 
> would want to attract people to sitting in their cars outside of my 
> house ;)
> -- 
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/ <http://www.josephcrawford.com/>
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com <mailto:codebowl at gmail.com>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>   


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Tue Feb 20 18:59:24 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:59:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs
Message-ID: <b76252690702201559m7e7a0085h9dfa37436a650961@mail.gmail.com>

So apparently we're in for a treat in March (as if daylight savings
time wasn't enough) as Stefan Esser will be publicizing a laundry list
of active vulnerabilities in PHP, one or more for each day of the
month.
http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/432/

Here's somebody who had been working with the core developers to try
to get these things fixed, but has been frustrated to the point of
resorting to a "Month of Bugs" style publicity stunt. If what he says
is true, about overflows and other bugs being ignored, that's a pretty
major breakdown in quality control.

I don't know C, and I would have no idea what to look for in doing an
audit of PHP (the language) itself. But it seems (from Ilia's comments
anyway) that such an audit is long overdue.

So now I have to wonder, do IBM and Yahoo deploy stock PHP binaries?
Or do they carry out their own internal audits to discover and patch
the sloppier parts of the codebase?

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From ben at projectskyline.com  Tue Feb 20 19:04:43 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:04:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs
References: <b76252690702201559m7e7a0085h9dfa37436a650961@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00e101c7554b$e4083600$6501a8c0@gamebox>

That's pretty interesting suff. This can only be good for the long term 
health of PHP,
but we might seem some haxors attempting to exploit these 0days..better stay 
patched!

I started off a c-coder, ... for anyone who's intrested in php internals (c 
code)
the book 'Extending and Embedding PHP' is a great one.

- Ben
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "csnyder" <chsnyder at gmail.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:59 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs


> So apparently we're in for a treat in March (as if daylight savings
> time wasn't enough) as Stefan Esser will be publicizing a laundry list
> of active vulnerabilities in PHP, one or more for each day of the
> month.
> http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/432/
>
> Here's somebody who had been working with the core developers to try
> to get these things fixed, but has been frustrated to the point of
> resorting to a "Month of Bugs" style publicity stunt. If what he says
> is true, about overflows and other bugs being ignored, that's a pretty
> major breakdown in quality control.
>
> I don't know C, and I would have no idea what to look for in doing an
> audit of PHP (the language) itself. But it seems (from Ilia's comments
> anyway) that such an audit is long overdue.
>
> So now I have to wonder, do IBM and Yahoo deploy stock PHP binaries?
> Or do they carry out their own internal audits to discover and patch
> the sloppier parts of the codebase?
>
> -- 
> Chris Snyder
> http://chxo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 



From lists at genoverly.net  Tue Feb 20 19:05:28 2007
From: lists at genoverly.net (michael)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:05:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702201559m7e7a0085h9dfa37436a650961@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b76252690702201559m7e7a0085h9dfa37436a650961@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070220190528.2224ad15@dt.genoverly.com>

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:59:24 -0500
csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:

> So apparently we're in for a treat in March (as if daylight savings
> time wasn't enough) as Stefan Esser will be publicizing a laundry list
> of active vulnerabilities in PHP, one or more for each day of the
> month.
> http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/432/
> 
> Here's somebody who had been working with the core developers to try
> to get these things fixed, but has been frustrated to the point of
> resorting to a "Month of Bugs" style publicity stunt. If what he says
> is true, about overflows and other bugs being ignored, that's a pretty
> major breakdown in quality control.
> 
> I don't know C, and I would have no idea what to look for in doing an
> audit of PHP (the language) itself. But it seems (from Ilia's comments
> anyway) that such an audit is long overdue.
> 
> So now I have to wonder, do IBM and Yahoo deploy stock PHP binaries?
> Or do they carry out their own internal audits to discover and patch
> the sloppier parts of the codebase?
> 
> -- 
> Chris Snyder
> http://chxo.com/

Thanks for the heads up, Chris.

It may be a good idea to have a look at his Suhosin patch.. before the
March Madness.  

http://www.hardened-php.net/

-- 

michael


(this address does not accept public email)



From robynover at gmail.com  Tue Feb 20 19:33:01 2007
From: robynover at gmail.com (Robyn Overstreet)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:33:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4
Message-ID: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure where to start with this one, because I'm so stumped. I'm
working on an application which uses many different class files (a
database class, an abstract object class, and several classes that
inherit from it, etc) and it's running really, really slowly. I've
timed many parts of the code, but still can't isolate the hangups. It
doesn't seem to be the database queries themselves. I thought it might
be the amount of processing it takes to include all the external class
files. I tried using PEAR Cache_Lite, but there seemed to be no
significant speed increase. One strange thing I notice is that the
script appears to continue processing after all elements on the page
are correctly displayed.

Any ideas or strategies for optimization/debugging?

Thanks-
Robyn


From lists at silmail.com  Tue Feb 20 21:54:20 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:24:20 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4
In-Reply-To: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702201854r7d1ea895n7af93120af286cc4@mail.gmail.com>

>
> significant speed increase. One strange thing I notice is that the
> script appears to continue processing after all elements on the page
> are correctly displayed.
>
>
Are you sure that you are not having any media objects (image, swf etc),
which are linked with the wrong path, and the server cannot find that, or
not using any embed tags in the output, which does not have corresponding
plugin on the viewing browser.

Just a long thought..

-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
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From ben at projectskyline.com  Tue Feb 20 22:21:18 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:21:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4
References: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>
	<6431a0f40702201854r7d1ea895n7af93120af286cc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <017201c75567$5a238c20$6501a8c0@gamebox>

You could use something like 'tamperdata' to see how long each object (as mentioned) below is taking to load.

If its something OOP/Code related, maybe a PHP Profiler would help..

Wish I could offer some assitance w/the profiler, but never had time to get one running.

- Ben
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jiju Thomas Mathew 
  To: NYPHP Talk 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4





    significant speed increase. One strange thing I notice is that the
    script appears to continue processing after all elements on the page 
    are correctly displayed.



  Are you sure that you are not having any media objects (image, swf etc), which are linked with the wrong path, and the server cannot find that, or not using any embed tags in the output, which does not have corresponding plugin on the viewing browser. 

  Just a long thought.. 

  -- 
  Jiju Thomas Mathew
  http://www.php-trivandrum.org



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From enolists at gmail.com  Tue Feb 20 22:46:29 2007
From: enolists at gmail.com (Mark Armendariz)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:46:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4
In-Reply-To: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c7556a$e29023e0$6400a8c0@enobrev>

How is the script continually processing?  Do you mean that the page still
seems to be loading in a browser or the server processes are still going?

If it's continually loading in the browser, Jiju is on.  I ran into this
quite a bit with a faulty mod-rewrite which was actually loading a copy of
the site for every image, css and javascript file call.  Even when I fixed
that it ended up 
doing the same for any 404's.  That was an Enormous hit on the server (large
project with quite a few heavy oo classes).

If it's on the server and you're using apache, my first suggestion is to run
php in cgi mode if at all possible.  Switching from mod to cgi made it
easier to tell 'who' was hogging everything, since php runs separately (can
monitor the php executable to see when it stops)

Also, look into xdebug's automated profiling, which is incredibly helpful -
think firebug for your server.  Use KCacheGrind (linux only) or
WinCacheGrind (Win32) to process xdebug's logs.  That'll tell you Exactly
where all the time is going - which functions, which classes, etc.

Mark Armendariz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org 
> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Robyn Overstreet
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:33 PM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4
> 
> I'm not sure where to start with this one, because I'm so 
> stumped. I'm working on an application which uses many 
> different class files (a database class, an abstract object 
> class, and several classes that inherit from it, etc) and 
> it's running really, really slowly. I've timed many parts of 
> the code, but still can't isolate the hangups. It doesn't 
> seem to be the database queries themselves. I thought it 
> might be the amount of processing it takes to include all the 
> external class files. I tried using PEAR Cache_Lite, but 
> there seemed to be no significant speed increase. One strange 
> thing I notice is that the script appears to continue 
> processing after all elements on the page are correctly displayed.
> 
> Any ideas or strategies for optimization/debugging?
> 
> Thanks-
> Robyn
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 



From robynover at gmail.com  Wed Feb 21 12:02:26 2007
From: robynover at gmail.com (Robyn Overstreet)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 12:02:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4
In-Reply-To: <000c01c7556a$e29023e0$6400a8c0@enobrev>
References: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>
	<000c01c7556a$e29023e0$6400a8c0@enobrev>
Message-ID: <dc1507df0702210902j2c7a962ckf950e52ef197933f@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the responses ...

On 2/20/07, Mark Armendariz <enolists at gmail.com> wrote:
> How is the script continually processing?  Do you mean that the page still
> seems to be loading in a browser or the server processes are still going?

It's the first thing. The page loads but the browser appears to still
be loading -- the progress bar is active -- though it does eventually
stop.

The only images or media elements on the page are very small icons and
background gradients which seem to load fine.

>
> If it's continually loading in the browser, Jiju is on.  I ran into this
> quite a bit with a faulty mod-rewrite which was actually loading a copy of
> the site for every image, css and javascript file call.  Even when I fixed
> that it ended up
> doing the same for any 404's.  That was an Enormous hit on the server (large
> project with quite a few heavy oo classes).
>
> If it's on the server and you're using apache, my first suggestion is to run
> php in cgi mode if at all possible.  Switching from mod to cgi made it
> easier to tell 'who' was hogging everything, since php runs separately (can
> monitor the php executable to see when it stops)
>
> Also, look into xdebug's automated profiling, which is incredibly helpful -
> think firebug for your server.  Use KCacheGrind (linux only) or
> WinCacheGrind (Win32) to process xdebug's logs.  That'll tell you Exactly
> where all the time is going - which functions, which classes, etc.

I'm having a hard time gettting xdebug installed. Any other ideas for profiling?

Thanks again
Robyn


>
> Mark Armendariz
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
> > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Robyn Overstreet
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:33 PM
> > To: NYPHP Talk
> > Subject: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4
> >
> > I'm not sure where to start with this one, because I'm so
> > stumped. I'm working on an application which uses many
> > different class files (a database class, an abstract object
> > class, and several classes that inherit from it, etc) and
> > it's running really, really slowly. I've timed many parts of
> > the code, but still can't isolate the hangups. It doesn't
> > seem to be the database queries themselves. I thought it
> > might be the amount of processing it takes to include all the
> > external class files. I tried using PEAR Cache_Lite, but
> > there seemed to be no significant speed increase. One strange
> > thing I notice is that the script appears to continue
> > processing after all elements on the page are correctly displayed.
> >
> > Any ideas or strategies for optimization/debugging?
> >
> > Thanks-
> > Robyn
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Wed Feb 21 12:16:02 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 12:16:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4
In-Reply-To: <dc1507df0702210902j2c7a962ckf950e52ef197933f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>	<000c01c7556a$e29023e0$6400a8c0@enobrev>
	<dc1507df0702210902j2c7a962ckf950e52ef197933f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45DC7E52.1020707@beaffinitive.com>

> It's the first thing. The page loads but the browser appears to still
> be loading -- the progress bar is active -- though it does eventually
> stop.
>
> The only images or media elements on the page are very small icons and
> background gradients which seem to load fine. 

Does it happen in all browsers?  Do you have any image tags with empty 
src=""?  I think Firefox loads the page again as the image in that case, 
if I remember right.



From nate at cakephp.org  Wed Feb 21 12:46:13 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 12:46:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs (michael)
In-Reply-To: <20070221165651.C7B3610A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070221165651.C7B3610A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <02682ED1-A612-4626-9DE7-EE36D9BE52A2@cakephp.org>

Despite the claims, I'm not so sure that most of these security  
issues couldn't be mitigated with a proper server configuration and a  
well-designed application.  While I'm sure there are vulnerabilities  
that exist in a *stock* installation of PHP (especially in older  
versions where things like register_globals and allow_url_fopen were  
enabled by default... wait... is allow_url_fopen *still* enabled by  
default??), there's a lot you can do to in terms of configuration to  
minimize your application's target profile.

Also, I seem to remember Chris Shiflett having some clarifying  
comments on Stefan and his Sohusin project, so perhaps he could weigh  
in here (hint, hint ;-).

> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:05:28 -0500
> From: michael <lists at genoverly.net>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:59:24 -0500
> csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So apparently we're in for a treat in March (as if daylight savings
>> time wasn't enough) as Stefan Esser will be publicizing a laundry  
>> list
>> of active vulnerabilities in PHP, one or more for each day of the
>> month.
>> http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/432/
>>
>> Here's somebody who had been working with the core developers to try
>> to get these things fixed, but has been frustrated to the point of
>> resorting to a "Month of Bugs" style publicity stunt. If what he says
>> is true, about overflows and other bugs being ignored, that's a  
>> pretty
>> major breakdown in quality control.
>>
>> I don't know C, and I would have no idea what to look for in doing an
>> audit of PHP (the language) itself. But it seems (from Ilia's  
>> comments
>> anyway) that such an audit is long overdue.
>>
>> So now I have to wonder, do IBM and Yahoo deploy stock PHP binaries?
>> Or do they carry out their own internal audits to discover and patch
>> the sloppier parts of the codebase?
>>
>> -- 
>> Chris Snyder
>> http://chxo.com/
>
> Thanks for the heads up, Chris.
>
> It may be a good idea to have a look at his Suhosin patch.. before the
> March Madness.
>
> http://www.hardened-php.net/
>
> -- 
>
> michael



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Wed Feb 21 13:16:13 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:16:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4
In-Reply-To: <dc1507df0702210902j2c7a962ckf950e52ef197933f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>
	<000c01c7556a$e29023e0$6400a8c0@enobrev>
	<dc1507df0702210902j2c7a962ckf950e52ef197933f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <099F7D9C-7DF4-419D-A685-96F71D4345B0@jonbaer.com>

Ive personally seen the issue a few times w/ the following:

* persistent connections (using pconnect() anywhere?)
* using any bleeding-edge extensions like ImageMagick? - using  
anything w/ PECL?
* apache/php rebuild configuration (some research pointed to apache  
sapi problems, so recompiled + they went away)

- Jon

On Feb 21, 2007, at 12:02 PM, Robyn Overstreet wrote:

> Thanks for the responses ...
>
> On 2/20/07, Mark Armendariz <enolists at gmail.com> wrote:
>> How is the script continually processing?  Do you mean that the  
>> page still
>> seems to be loading in a browser or the server processes are still  
>> going?
>
> It's the first thing. The page loads but the browser appears to still
> be loading -- the progress bar is active -- though it does eventually
> stop.


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Feb 21 15:15:04 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:15:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs (michael)
In-Reply-To: <02682ED1-A612-4626-9DE7-EE36D9BE52A2@cakephp.org>
References: <20070221165651.C7B3610A806D@cakephp.org>
	<02682ED1-A612-4626-9DE7-EE36D9BE52A2@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <b76252690702211215u5436e1c5ib8dfffd93fd9704b@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/21/07, Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org> wrote:
> Despite the claims, I'm not so sure that most of these security
> issues couldn't be mitigated with a proper server configuration and a
> well-designed application.  While I'm sure there are vulnerabilities
> that exist in a *stock* installation of PHP (especially in older
> versions where things like register_globals and allow_url_fopen were
> enabled by default... wait... is allow_url_fopen *still* enabled by
> default??), there's a lot you can do to in terms of configuration to
> minimize your application's target profile.
>
> Also, I seem to remember Chris Shiflett having some clarifying
> comments on Stefan and his Sohusin project, so perhaps he could weigh
> in here (hint, hint ;-).

Hi Nate, top posting as usual I see.

So for the sake of argument, let's say there there's a buffer overflow
vulnerability in getimagesize(), that could be exploited by a
carefully crafted jpeg. It doesn't matter at that point how careful
you were when you wrote your app. As soon as an attacker (er, script
kiddie) uploads a poison jpeg, she owns your server.

These are the kinds of bugs Esser is talking about, not the XSS or SQL
injection attacks that are typically the fault of an application
developer.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Wed Feb 21 16:05:31 2007
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:05:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs (michael)
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702211215u5436e1c5ib8dfffd93fd9704b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070221165651.C7B3610A806D@cakephp.org>
	<02682ED1-A612-4626-9DE7-EE36D9BE52A2@cakephp.org>
	<b76252690702211215u5436e1c5ib8dfffd93fd9704b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0702211305t442526afi4647fd0653e2235d@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/21/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> These are the kinds of bugs Esser is talking about, not the XSS or SQL
> injection attacks that are typically the fault of an application
> developer.

Had a similar discussion on the DCPHP list yesterday...

Personally, I think the whole thing is going to be good for those of
us who can update our systems and/or tweak our code.

Unfortunately, a non-trivial number of people are on shared systems
with companies who won't do anything OR they don't have the technical
understanding/expertise to do much.  All that's going to happen for
them is their forum which has been running for years will be pwned.

kc

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Wed Feb 21 17:45:37 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:45:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702201559m7e7a0085h9dfa37436a650961@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b76252690702201559m7e7a0085h9dfa37436a650961@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070221224537.GA20498@panix.com>

Hey Chris:

On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 06:59:24PM -0500, csnyder wrote:
> 
> Here's somebody who had been working with the core developers to try
> to get these things fixed,

I'm not sure if "working with" is the right phrase.  He seemingly finds it 
difficult to work with anyone.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Wed Feb 21 17:50:50 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:50:50 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speed problems in OO PHP4
In-Reply-To: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc1507df0702201633j1664ef7cv16624b6eb24b8541@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070221225050.GB20498@panix.com>

Hi Robyn:

On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 07:33:01PM -0500, Robyn Overstreet wrote:
> 
> Any ideas or strategies for optimization/debugging?

You need to profile your code to find out where the big issues are.  Some 
tools for profiling include Zend's IDE/debugger, xdebug, PHPUnit (or just 
echoing time stamps in key places :)).

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Feb 21 19:14:50 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:14:50 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs
In-Reply-To: <20070221224537.GA20498@panix.com>
References: <b76252690702201559m7e7a0085h9dfa37436a650961@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070221224537.GA20498@panix.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690702211614wacbabdes5dae92d3b0d5e9bc@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/21/07, Daniel Convissor <danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote:

> > Here's somebody who had been working with the core developers to try
> > to get these things fixed,
>
> I'm not sure if "working with" is the right phrase.  He seemingly finds it
> difficult to work with anyone.
>
> --Dan

Ahh, now see that's what I was wondering...


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Feb 21 19:44:05 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:44:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702211614wacbabdes5dae92d3b0d5e9bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b76252690702201559m7e7a0085h9dfa37436a650961@mail.gmail.com>	<20070221224537.GA20498@panix.com>
	<b76252690702211614wacbabdes5dae92d3b0d5e9bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45DCE755.9090508@cyberxdesigns.com>

I read through the interview.  It was eye opening.  Is there any 
expectation we are going to get patches for these bugs in a timely 
fashion?  Doesn't seem like it.  Kind of frustrating to sit here and 
just wait. Do the Suhosin PHP patches cover all the bugs that are going 
to be released?  Doesn't seem like it.  If I am wrong, and I very well 
could be, please chime in and correct me.

So the question is, what is the community's response to this issue?  Are 
we as powerless as it seems?  I am still wondering what my next steps 
are going to be? I know I am responsible for a couple of handfuls of 
servers, and I would like to know which way to go. The other question, 
is this any different then any other day that a list of bugs is released? 

I wish I had some answers, but I don't.  Maybe some constructive 
conversation on  solutions rather then the personalities involved might 
be helpful.  If no one has any answers, tell me to bugger off.

Hans K

Cyber X Designs is a New Jersey web development company.
http://www.cyberxdesigns.com


From nate at cakephp.org  Wed Feb 21 20:56:13 2007
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:56:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs (michael)
In-Reply-To: <20070222004247.A5F0710A806D@cakephp.org>
References: <20070222004247.A5F0710A806D@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <71A2DE5E-A331-4645-9ECC-2F2639AB6428@cakephp.org>

> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:15:04 -0500
> From: csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Re: Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs (michael)
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>
> On 2/21/07, Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org> wrote:
>> Despite the claims, I'm not so sure that most of these security
>> issues couldn't be mitigated with a proper server configuration and a
>> well-designed application.  While I'm sure there are vulnerabilities
>> that exist in a *stock* installation of PHP (especially in older
>> versions where things like register_globals and allow_url_fopen were
>> enabled by default... wait... is allow_url_fopen *still* enabled by
>> default??), there's a lot you can do to in terms of configuration to
>> minimize your application's target profile.
>>
>> Also, I seem to remember Chris Shiflett having some clarifying
>> comments on Stefan and his Sohusin project, so perhaps he could weigh
>> in here (hint, hint ;-).
>
> Hi Nate, top posting as usual I see.

My bad.  I read the list in digest form, so it's out of habit from  
the way in which I typically respond to email.  I'll consider myself  
warned. :-P

> So for the sake of argument, let's say there there's a buffer overflow
> vulnerability in getimagesize(), that could be exploited by a
> carefully crafted jpeg. It doesn't matter at that point how careful
> you were when you wrote your app. As soon as an attacker (er, script
> kiddie) uploads a poison jpeg, she owns your server.
>
> These are the kinds of bugs Esser is talking about, not the XSS or SQL
> injection attacks that are typically the fault of an application
> developer.

Chris, I didn't say *all* of the security issues Stefan raises  
weren't legitimate, I said *most*.  Looking over the article, Stefan  
mentions things like register_globals and magic_quotes_gpc, both of  
which, I'm sure you'll agree are poor excuses for proper implementation.

Obviously, we have yet to see the actual list of flaws disclosed, so  
until then, we're pretty much all in the same boat.

- Nate


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Feb 21 15:43:01 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:43:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Dual session operation question
Message-ID: <C2021905.CA2%cliff@pinestream.com>

I think I know the answer to this, unfortunately, but I?ll throw it out to
the group.

Is there any way to work with two session IDs and session handlers in one
script?

My main site uses one session ID and the standard session functions. My
commercial shopping cart uses a different session id and a custom mysql
session handler. To carry login state between the two modules, I need access
to both sessions. Or I need to merge the two session mechanisms into one.
Neither approach sounds very enticing.

My previous developer used curl to perform a login ?loopback? to the
shopping cart. Seems wasteful to me. Plus this assumes each script uses
identical encryption schemes. His solution was to disable password
encryption!

Any thoughts?

Cliff
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From shiflett at php.net  Wed Feb 21 22:12:49 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:12:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs (michael)
In-Reply-To: <02682ED1-A612-4626-9DE7-EE36D9BE52A2@cakephp.org>
References: <20070221165651.C7B3610A806D@cakephp.org>
	<02682ED1-A612-4626-9DE7-EE36D9BE52A2@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <45DD0A31.6070009@php.net>

Nate Abele wrote:
> I seem to remember Chris Shiflett having some clarifying comments
> on Stefan and his Sohusin project

I ignore Stefan, so I'm not sure how much clarification I can offer. I
don't want to support his dishonest attempts to paint himself as a
victim or give him the attention he seeks.

The core PHP developers have a long history of responding rapidly to
security vulnerabilities in PHP, so I know my own mistakes pose the
greatest threat to the security of my web sites.

I'm not afraid of disclosed vulnerabilities; I'm afraid of the
undisclosed ones.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Wed Feb 21 22:28:09 2007
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:28:09 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs (michael)
In-Reply-To: <45DD0A31.6070009@php.net>
References: <20070221165651.C7B3610A806D@cakephp.org>	<02682ED1-A612-4626-9DE7-EE36D9BE52A2@cakephp.org>
	<45DD0A31.6070009@php.net>
Message-ID: <45DD0DC8.3050506@qualityadvantages.com>

Chris Shiflett wrote:

>I'm not afraid of disclosed vulnerabilities; I'm afraid of the
>undisclosed ones.
>
>Chris
>
Well put. I would add and the badguys who exploit them.

regards, mikesz


From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Wed Feb 21 22:30:35 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:30:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs (michael)
References: <20070221165651.C7B3610A806D@cakephp.org><02682ED1-A612-4626-9DE7-EE36D9BE52A2@cakephp.org>
	<45DD0A31.6070009@php.net>
Message-ID: <018201c75631$d10795f0$07d6f4a7@ced>

I'd have to echo Chris' position. I don't find incredible weight to most of
the complaints, and am certain that the first and foremost point of security
failure just-so-happens to be typing this e-mail right now. I don't doubt
that there is probably some personal offense and/or political motives
involved. My two cents, deposit it or not.

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Shiflett" <shiflett at php.net>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Re: Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs (michael)


> Nate Abele wrote:
> > I seem to remember Chris Shiflett having some clarifying comments
> > on Stefan and his Sohusin project
>
> I ignore Stefan, so I'm not sure how much clarification I can offer. I
> don't want to support his dishonest attempts to paint himself as a
> victim or give him the attention he seeks.
>
> The core PHP developers have a long history of responding rapidly to
> security vulnerabilities in PHP, so I know my own mistakes pose the
> greatest threat to the security of my web sites.
>
> I'm not afraid of disclosed vulnerabilities; I'm afraid of the
> undisclosed ones.
>
> Chris
>
> -- 
> Chris Shiflett
> http://shiflett.org/
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>




From lists at zaunere.com  Wed Feb 21 22:49:39 2007
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:49:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs (michael)
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702211215u5436e1c5ib8dfffd93fd9704b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070221165651.C7B3610A806D@cakephp.org><02682ED1-A612-4626-9DE7-EE36D9BE52A2@cakephp.org>
	<b76252690702211215u5436e1c5ib8dfffd93fd9704b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003201c75634$7bbb2960$6a0aa8c0@MobileZ>


csnyder wrote on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:15 PM:
> On 2/21/07, Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org> wrote:
> > Despite the claims, I'm not so sure that most of these security
> > issues couldn't be mitigated with a proper server configuration and
> > a well-designed application.  While I'm sure there are
> > vulnerabilities that exist in a *stock* installation of PHP
> > (especially in older versions where things like register_globals
> > and allow_url_fopen were enabled by default... wait... is
> > allow_url_fopen *still* enabled by default??), there's a lot you
> > can do to in terms of configuration to minimize your application's
> > target profile. 
> > 
> > Also, I seem to remember Chris Shiflett having some clarifying
> > comments on Stefan and his Sohusin project, so perhaps he could
> > weigh in here (hint, hint ;-).
> 
> Hi Nate, top posting as usual I see.
> 
> So for the sake of argument, let's say there there's a buffer overflow
> vulnerability in getimagesize(), that could be exploited by a
> carefully crafted jpeg. It doesn't matter at that point how careful
> you were when you wrote your app. As soon as an attacker (er, script
> kiddie) uploads a poison jpeg, she owns your server.

So... is this a bug in PHP or GD?  :)

> These are the kinds of bugs Esser is talking about, not the XSS or SQL
> injection attacks that are typically the fault of an application
> developer.

But yes, I agree - it's talking about these types of buffer overflows and
classic C security problems that I think made us all pay attention to this
announcement.

The classic PHP quagmire, of course, is that there's a fine line between a
problem in PHP/ZE core, and a problem in a linked library.  There are likely
problems on both sides of the fence.

If Esser comes out with legitimate critical bugs on the PHP/ZE side, then
it's going to have a long term consequence.  Otherwise, it'll be disregarded
as hype.

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
    www.nyphp.org  /  www.nyphp.com




From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 00:22:36 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 00:22:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com>

Guys i am trying to consume the Google maps API and when i pass it an
address in Montreal QC i get the follwoing error

*Warning*: SimpleXMLElement::__construct() [
function.SimpleXMLElement---construct<http://codebowl.homeip.net/eremaps/function.SimpleXMLElement---construct>]:
Entity: line 1: parser error : Input is not proper UTF-8, indicate encoding
! Bytes: 0xE9 0x61 0x6C 0x2C in *
/Applications/MAMP/htdocs/eremaps/import.php* on line *41

*the issue is that Google is returning this in the XML response

<LocalityName>Montr?al</LocalityName>

I am guessing it is throwing something off with the SimpleXML object?  How
can i make it handle this?

Thanks,
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Feb 22 06:34:09 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 06:34:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45DD7FB1.4080709@gmx.net>

Joseph Crawford wrote:
> Guys i am trying to consume the Google maps API and when i pass it an 
> address in Montreal QC i get the follwoing error
> 
> *Warning*: SimpleXMLElement::__construct() [ 
> function.SimpleXMLElement---construct 
> <http://codebowl.homeip.net/eremaps/function.SimpleXMLElement---construct>]: 
> Entity: line 1: parser error : Input is not proper UTF-8, indicate 
> encoding ! Bytes: 0xE9 0x61 0x6C 0x2C in 
> */Applications/MAMP/htdocs/eremaps/import.php* on line *41
> 
> *the issue is that Google is returning this in the XML response
> 
> <LocalityName>Montr?al</LocalityName>
> 
> I am guessing it is throwing something off with the SimpleXML object?  
> How can i make it handle this?

My guess is that it chokes on the accented character. It expects it as 
UTF-8 (it complained about it notbeing proper), so who knows what an ? 
ends up to be.
I recommend trying an address that does not produce any accented 
characters or Umlaute or whatever else. That way you can test if your 
code is generally OK and isolate the problem to some incompatible 
character encoding.


David


From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Thu Feb 22 09:07:27 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:07:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
References: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006801c7568a$c8fd2f60$07d6f4a7@ced>

What is wrong with <LocalityName>Montr?al</LocalityName> ? It looks properly formatted.

I believe that error is from the doc not being declared correctly in the header. If that's the case, edit the reponse and insert a header like:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
And make sure it's at line 1

HTH,

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joseph Crawford 
  To: NYPHP Talk 
  Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 12:22 AM
  Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?


  Guys i am trying to consume the Google maps API and when i pass it an address in Montreal QC i get the follwoing error

  Warning: SimpleXMLElement::__construct() [ function.SimpleXMLElement---construct]: Entity: line 1: parser error : Input is not proper UTF-8, indicate encoding ! Bytes: 0xE9 0x61 0x6C 0x2C in /Applications/MAMP/htdocs/eremaps/import.php on line 41

  the issue is that Google is returning this in the XML response

  <LocalityName>Montr?al</LocalityName> 

  I am guessing it is throwing something off with the SimpleXML object?  How can i make it handle this?

  Thanks,
  -- 
  Joseph Crawford Jr.
  Zend Certified Engineer
  Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
  http://www.codebowl.com/
  Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
  1-802-671-2021
  codebowl at gmail.com 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
  http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

  NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
  http://www.nyphpcon.com

  Show Your Participation in New York PHP
  http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
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From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 09:23:16 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:23:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
In-Reply-To: <006801c7568a$c8fd2f60$07d6f4a7@ced>
References: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<006801c7568a$c8fd2f60$07d6f4a7@ced>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702220623t12fbaa0p2e0e89a1140baaa5@mail.gmail.com>

ZIt is choking on the e charachter i figured that out but how to stop it
from choking is the problem.

After checking this is the first line of the XML returned by Google

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>


-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 09:30:22 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:30:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702220623t12fbaa0p2e0e89a1140baaa5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<006801c7568a$c8fd2f60$07d6f4a7@ced>
	<8d9a42800702220623t12fbaa0p2e0e89a1140baaa5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702220630o433e4990rcb56053d7b33514d@mail.gmail.com>

Here is the full XML response

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<kml xmlns="http://earth.google.com/kml/2.0">
  <Response>
    <name>8400 2e Avenue, Montreal, , H1Z4M6</name>
    <Status>
      <code>200</code>
      <request>geocode</request>
    </Status>
    <Placemark>
      <address>8400 2E AV, Montr?al, QC, Canada</address>
      <AddressDetails Accuracy="8"
xmlns="urn:oasis:names:tc:ciq:xsdschema:xAL:2.0">
        <Country>
          <CountryNameCode>CA</CountryNameCode>
          <AdministrativeArea>
            <AdministrativeAreaName>QC</AdministrativeAreaName>
            <Locality>
              <LocalityName>Montr?al</LocalityName>
              <Thoroughfare>
                <ThoroughfareName>8400 2E AV</ThoroughfareName>
              </Thoroughfare>
            </Locality>
          </AdministrativeArea>
        </Country>
      </AddressDetails>
      <Point>
        <coordinates>-73.616558,45.562612,0</coordinates>
      </Point>
    </Placemark>
  </Response>
</kml>



On 2/22/07, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ZIt is choking on the e charachter i figured that out but how to stop it
> from choking is the problem.
>
> After checking this is the first line of the XML returned by Google
>
> <?xml version="
> 1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>
>
> --
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com
>



-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 09:38:08 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:38:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702220623t12fbaa0p2e0e89a1140baaa5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<006801c7568a$c8fd2f60$07d6f4a7@ced>
	<8d9a42800702220623t12fbaa0p2e0e89a1140baaa5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690702220638g145931c3veb1bf1b0c6945ed8@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/22/07, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> ZIt is choking on the e charachter i figured that out but how to stop it
> from choking is the problem.
>
> After checking this is the first line of the XML returned by Google
> <?xml version="
> 1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>

So make sure the text you send is encoded as utf-8. You're probably
sending ISO-8869-1 right now. The iconv functions will help.

It's a good idea these days to use unicode everywhere (forms,
database, output) so you don't have to think about it. Sometimes you
get text from other services, though, and that's when it needs to be
re-encoded.

Anyone who needs an introduction to character encoding in general, and
unicode in particular, should peep Carlos Hoyos presentaion from last
year:
http://www.nyphp.org/content/presentations/smallworld/April2006-nyphp-Presentation.ppt

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 09:39:25 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:39:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702220638g145931c3veb1bf1b0c6945ed8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<006801c7568a$c8fd2f60$07d6f4a7@ced>
	<8d9a42800702220623t12fbaa0p2e0e89a1140baaa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690702220638g145931c3veb1bf1b0c6945ed8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690702220639q3fe00291i13367b5b916c54f8@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/22/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> sending ISO-8869-1 right now. The iconv functions will help.

Sorry, that should be ISO-8859-1. Still early here.


From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Thu Feb 22 09:51:24 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:51:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
References: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com><006801c7568a$c8fd2f60$07d6f4a7@ced>
	<8d9a42800702220623t12fbaa0p2e0e89a1140baaa5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004901c75690$ece72880$07d6f4a7@ced>

What "e" Character? 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joseph Crawford 
  To: NYPHP Talk 
  Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?


  ZIt is choking on the e charachter i figured that out but how to stop it from choking is the problem.

  After checking this is the first line of the XML returned by Google

<?xml version="
1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
  -- 
  Joseph Crawford Jr.
  Zend Certified Engineer
  Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
  http://www.codebowl.com/
  Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
  1-802-671-2021
  codebowl at gmail.com 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
  http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

  NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
  http://www.nyphpcon.com

  Show Your Participation in New York PHP
  http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
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From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Thu Feb 22 09:57:43 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:57:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
References: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com><006801c7568a$c8fd2f60$07d6f4a7@ced><8d9a42800702220623t12fbaa0p2e0e89a1140baaa5@mail.gmail.com><b76252690702220638g145931c3veb1bf1b0c6945ed8@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690702220639q3fe00291i13367b5b916c54f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007f01c75691$cecdf800$07d6f4a7@ced>

If it's the e in Montreal, just do what Chris suggests and iconv:

iconv("ISO-8859-1", "UTF-8", $googleXMLResponse);

OR

iconv("UTF-8", "ISO-8859-1", $myGoogleAPIRequest);



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "csnyder" <chsnyder at gmail.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?


> On 2/22/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> > sending ISO-8869-1 right now. The iconv functions will help.
> 
> Sorry, that should be ISO-8859-1. Still early here.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 



From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 10:05:20 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:05:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
In-Reply-To: <007f01c75691$cecdf800$07d6f4a7@ced>
References: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<006801c7568a$c8fd2f60$07d6f4a7@ced>
	<8d9a42800702220623t12fbaa0p2e0e89a1140baaa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690702220638g145931c3veb1bf1b0c6945ed8@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690702220639q3fe00291i13367b5b916c54f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<007f01c75691$cecdf800$07d6f4a7@ced>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702220705m2f05374kcb099c757326a812@mail.gmail.com>

THnks guys,

I actually just found this solution on a forum ;)  I will be reading the
article that you provided chris, thanks again.
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From dcech at phpwerx.net  Thu Feb 22 10:58:38 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:58:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Dual session operation question
In-Reply-To: <C2021905.CA2%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C2021905.CA2%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <45DDBDAE.6000007@phpwerx.net>

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> I think I know the answer to this, unfortunately, but I?ll throw it out to
> the group.
> 
> Is there any way to work with two session IDs and session handlers in one
> script?
> 
> My main site uses one session ID and the standard session functions. My
> commercial shopping cart uses a different session id and a custom mysql
> session handler. To carry login state between the two modules, I need access
> to both sessions. Or I need to merge the two session mechanisms into one.
> Neither approach sounds very enticing.
> 
> My previous developer used curl to perform a login ?loopback? to the
> shopping cart. Seems wasteful to me. Plus this assumes each script uses
> identical encryption schemes. His solution was to disable password
> encryption!
> 
> Any thoughts?

The simplest way would probably be something like:


session_name('SESS1');
session_start();

...

session_write_close();

...

session_name('SESS2');
session_start();

...

session_write_close();


I guess you could manipulate the session files directly if you felt like
reimplementing the session read/write code in php.

Dan


From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 14:37:35 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:37:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Google Maps Assistance
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702221137l38d3dbecsffa93de2eca775f7@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys & Gals,

I am working on a Google Maps project and we have a lot of different area's
to map.  I know that you can use a marker manager to limit how many markers
are shown at certain zooms however I am
writing here to ask for suggestions on the best way to limit them or group
them.  Would i group them by state? or by a block of longitude/latitude?
How are you guys doing this stuff.

You can see the app here
http://codebowl.dontexist.net/eremaps/  Dont mind it is slow the map seems
to be 2.9 MB when fully loaded which is another reason i wish to limit the
markers :)

I bought a book on this topic but it will not be here until tomorrow and i
would like to make whatever progress i can today.

Thanks,
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From ben at projectskyline.com  Thu Feb 22 15:04:00 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:04:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Google Maps Assistance
References: <8d9a42800702221137l38d3dbecsffa93de2eca775f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002401c756bc$97cbba60$6a01a8c0@gamebox>

Joseph, 

Your link didnt work for me, until I changed 8001 to 80.
http://codebowl.homeip.net:8001/eremaps/

http://codebowl.homeip.net/eremaps/
- Ben
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joseph Crawford 
  To: NYPHP Talk 
  Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:37 PM
  Subject: [nycphp-talk] Google Maps Assistance


  Hey Guys & Gals,

  I am working on a Google Maps project and we have a lot of different area's to map.  I know that you can use a marker manager to limit how many markers are shown at certain zooms however I am 
  writing here to ask for suggestions on the best way to limit them or group them.  Would i group them by state? or by a block of longitude/latitude?  How are you guys doing this stuff.

  You can see the app here
  http://codebowl.dontexist.net/eremaps/  Dont mind it is slow the map seems to be 2.9 MB when fully loaded which is another reason i wish to limit the markers :)

  I bought a book on this topic but it will not be here until tomorrow and i would like to make whatever progress i can today.

  Thanks,
  -- 
  Joseph Crawford Jr.
  Zend Certified Engineer
  Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 
  http://www.codebowl.com/
  Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
  1-802-671-2021
  codebowl at gmail.com 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
  http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

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  http://www.nyphpcon.com

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From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 15:08:08 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:08:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Google Maps Assistance
In-Reply-To: <002401c756bc$97cbba60$6a01a8c0@gamebox>
References: <8d9a42800702221137l38d3dbecsffa93de2eca775f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<002401c756bc$97cbba60$6a01a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702221208t7ed2e671s995d9a24052a4a99@mail.gmail.com>

oh right, sorry i have the other one setup to redirect to 8001 whoops,
please use http://codebowl.homeip.net/eremaps/



-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Thu Feb 22 15:34:26 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:34:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Google Maps Assistance
References: <8d9a42800702221137l38d3dbecsffa93de2eca775f7@mail.gmail.com><002401c756bc$97cbba60$6a01a8c0@gamebox>
	<8d9a42800702221208t7ed2e671s995d9a24052a4a99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006401c756c0$d86ed440$07d6f4a7@ced>

I wouldn't use google maps for what you're trying to do on that page. I'd do somethign similar to this:

http://reformedpresbytery.org/contacts.html

And have the links call the Google API. it just seems like you need to manage the markers, or does the API allow you to change the markers size?



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joseph Crawford 
  To: NYPHP Talk 
  Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 3:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Google Maps Assistance


  oh right, sorry i have the other one setup to redirect to 8001 whoops, please use http://codebowl.homeip.net/eremaps/



  -- 
  Joseph Crawford Jr.
  Zend Certified Engineer
  Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
  http://www.codebowl.com/
  Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
  1-802-671-2021 
  codebowl at gmail.com 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
  http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

  NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
  http://www.nyphpcon.com

  Show Your Participation in New York PHP
  http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
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From codebowl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 15:50:13 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:50:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Google Maps Assistance
In-Reply-To: <006401c756c0$d86ed440$07d6f4a7@ced>
References: <8d9a42800702221137l38d3dbecsffa93de2eca775f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<002401c756bc$97cbba60$6a01a8c0@gamebox>
	<8d9a42800702221208t7ed2e671s995d9a24052a4a99@mail.gmail.com>
	<006401c756c0$d86ed440$07d6f4a7@ced>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702221250r71084b47iaf127dfa1dc4523f@mail.gmail.com>

What we are trying to do is map out where the conference attendees are
located, however with that many markers it looks a bit cluttered.  I know
google maps allows you to use marker managers to show only a few at a
particular zoom level and more as you zoom in, i am just not sure how to
split it up and determine what to show on the farthest zoom :)
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From ben at projectskyline.com  Thu Feb 22 18:35:40 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:35:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] SourceGuardian 7 Sale and Questions
Message-ID: <00a101c756da$29e96790$6a01a8c0@gamebox>

Hello All, 

I just recieved an email w/a promotion/sale for the SourceGuardian Encoder.

I'd been looking into this for a bit and wanted to know if anyone could provide feedback on it. I have a lot of code I'd like to keep under wraps
when distributing applications to shared hosts..and even releases some parts of code 'open' and others 'closed'.

I'm looking for comments regarding setup on linux boxes (the encoded files), running the GUI under windows..as that is my setup.
Also, for shared hosting and such..how is the setup..does it work well w/no php.ini edits..as I believe you load the module at run time..?

Anyways...any feedback is helpful...

http://www.sourceguardian.com/purchase/index.php

- Ben
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From dcech at phpwerx.net  Thu Feb 22 19:01:11 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:01:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] SourceGuardian 7 Sale and Questions
In-Reply-To: <00a101c756da$29e96790$6a01a8c0@gamebox>
References: <00a101c756da$29e96790$6a01a8c0@gamebox>
Message-ID: <45DE2EC7.5020805@phpwerx.net>

Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) wrote:
> Hello All, 
> 
> I just recieved an email w/a promotion/sale for the SourceGuardian Encoder.
> 
> I'd been looking into this for a bit and wanted to know if anyone could provide feedback on it. I have a lot of code I'd like to keep under wraps
> when distributing applications to shared hosts..and even releases some parts of code 'open' and others 'closed'.
> 
> I'm looking for comments regarding setup on linux boxes (the encoded files), running the GUI under windows..as that is my setup.
> Also, for shared hosting and such..how is the setup..does it work well w/no php.ini edits..as I believe you load the module at run time..?
> 
> Anyways...any feedback is helpful...
> 
> http://www.sourceguardian.com/purchase/index.php

I haven't used source guardian, but reading their documentation it seems
quite similar to the Ioncube Loader, which we have had great success with.

If you're considering runtime loading I did notice that their example on
this page:

http://sourceguardian.com/products/php_encoder.htm

shows the encoded file content being passed to the sg_load function as a
string.  To my thinking this seems like it might be somewhat slow and
memory intensive for files of any size, as the complete encoded string
must be loaded into memory before it is passed to the extension.

All in all, I'd very carefully weigh the pros and cons between SG and
IONCube before committing to either.

I can't comment on Zend Guard, which seems to be the other big player in
this market, except to say that their pricing structure makes for a
tough comparison to ioncube and SG.

Dan


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Feb 22 23:39:06 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:39:06 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Google Maps Assistance
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702221250r71084b47iaf127dfa1dc4523f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702221137l38d3dbecsffa93de2eca775f7@mail.gmail.com>	<002401c756bc$97cbba60$6a01a8c0@gamebox>	<8d9a42800702221208t7ed2e671s995d9a24052a4a99@mail.gmail.com>	<006401c756c0$d86ed440$07d6f4a7@ced>
	<8d9a42800702221250r71084b47iaf127dfa1dc4523f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11366-03254@sneakemail.com>

Joseph Crawford codebowl-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> What we are trying to do is map out where the conference attendees are 
> located, however with that many markers it looks a bit cluttered.  I 
> know google maps allows you to use marker managers to show only a few 
> at a particular zoom level and more as you zoom in, i am just not sure 
> how to split it up and determine what to show on the farthest zoom :)
> -- 
> Joseph Crawford Jr.
> Zend Certified Engineer
> Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.codebowl.com/
> Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/ <http://www.josephcrawford.com/>
> 1-802-671-2021
> codebowl at gmail.com <mailto:codebowl at gmail.com>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Joe,

Sounds like you want to look at clustering.

Take a look at http://www.acme.com/javascript/#Clusterer and demo at 
http://www.acme.com/jef/hotsprings/


Hope that's helpful

-=john andrews



From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Feb 23 00:30:08 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 00:30:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Google Maps Assistance
In-Reply-To: <11366-03254@sneakemail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702221137l38d3dbecsffa93de2eca775f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<002401c756bc$97cbba60$6a01a8c0@gamebox>
	<8d9a42800702221208t7ed2e671s995d9a24052a4a99@mail.gmail.com>
	<006401c756c0$d86ed440$07d6f4a7@ced>
	<8d9a42800702221250r71084b47iaf127dfa1dc4523f@mail.gmail.com>
	<11366-03254@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702222130y794f441co6dbcd67999bc8186@mail.gmail.com>

John,

Thanks that is EXACTLY what I was looking for, i will attempt to integrate
that tomorrow ;)

Thanks Again,
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From arzala at gmail.com  Fri Feb 23 00:40:08 2007
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:10:08 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Encoding help?
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702220638g145931c3veb1bf1b0c6945ed8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702212122l3723b9d2wb8a478b45c8ee3d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8d9a42800702220623t12fbaa0p2e0e89a1140baaa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690702220638g145931c3veb1bf1b0c6945ed8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200702231110.08817.arzala@gmail.com>

On Thursday 22 February 2007 20:08, csnyder wrote:
> On 2/22/07, Joseph Crawford <codebowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ZIt is choking on the e charachter i figured that out but how to stop it
> > from choking is the problem.
> >
> > After checking this is the first line of the XML returned by Google
> > <?xml version="
> > 1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>
> So make sure the text you send is encoded as utf-8. You're probably
> sending ISO-8869-1 right now. The iconv functions will help.
>
> It's a good idea these days to use unicode everywhere (forms,
> database, output) so you don't have to think about it. Sometimes you
> get text from other services, though, and that's when it needs to be
> re-encoded.
>
> Anyone who needs an introduction to character encoding in general, and
> unicode in particular, should peep Carlos Hoyos presentaion from last
> year:
> http://www.nyphp.org/content/presentations/smallworld/April2006-nyphp-Prese
>ntation.ppt

Indeed good presentation. Whoever wants to make their application truly i18n 
i.e what you input at client side is processed by PHP in same way is stored 
at database level in same way (particularly MySQL) is what can be searched as 
it is and again is displayed back in browser as it is, should use UTF-8 at 
all levels and stages from database to script to browser.

Anirudh Zala

(30% of Internet traffic 
is wasted by unnecessary 
tabs and spaces.)


From codebowl at gmail.com  Fri Feb 23 00:49:56 2007
From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 00:49:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Google Maps Assistance
In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800702222130y794f441co6dbcd67999bc8186@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d9a42800702221137l38d3dbecsffa93de2eca775f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<002401c756bc$97cbba60$6a01a8c0@gamebox>
	<8d9a42800702221208t7ed2e671s995d9a24052a4a99@mail.gmail.com>
	<006401c756c0$d86ed440$07d6f4a7@ced>
	<8d9a42800702221250r71084b47iaf127dfa1dc4523f@mail.gmail.com>
	<11366-03254@sneakemail.com>
	<8d9a42800702222130y794f441co6dbcd67999bc8186@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d9a42800702222149t7e2c6dfbt9ad877c111dc114c@mail.gmail.com>

John,

That worked perfect and was easy to implement.  Thanks for the tip
-- 
Joseph Crawford Jr.
Zend Certified Engineer
Codebowl Solutions, Inc.
http://www.codebowl.com/
Blog: http://www.josephcrawford.com/
1-802-671-2021
codebowl at gmail.com
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From selyah1 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 23 11:28:07 2007
From: selyah1 at yahoo.com (selyah)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:28:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] time sheet
Message-ID: <79968.76639.qm@web30802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello:
I am developing a report scheduler that will includes as headings, Project Name, Date, Time Start, Time End, Description, and Total Hours.   This is the issue, I need to have the hours column to be a result of the subtraction of time start and time end.  Does PHP support math capabilities and is there a function that does this?
thanks in advance for you help

Ian
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From rick at napalmriot.com  Fri Feb 23 14:16:55 2007
From: rick at napalmriot.com (Rick Olson)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:16:55 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45DF3DA7.4000300@napalmriot.com>

Among the other ideas in this thread, you might also check out 
sphinxsearch (http://www.sphinxsearch.com).  I started (but have not 
finished...yet) a series on using and implementing it on my blog 
(http://blog.sensual.jp).

It has some nice perks, one of which being the ability to index straight 
out of MySQL (or postgresql), or from an XML format.

regards,

Rick
http://www.sensual.jp


N?stor wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.
>
> any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> N?stor :-)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From irfanbaig78 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 23 14:23:35 2007
From: irfanbaig78 at gmail.com (irfan baig)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 14:23:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing Database Agnostic Code
In-Reply-To: <20070215161445.GA16092@panix.com>
References: <c7c53eda0702140719y7e3a805du691c352294622b08@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070215161445.GA16092@panix.com>
Message-ID: <5a06fef90702231123jdb5d90cqbfa7b5e6afbcd9bd@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/15/07, Daniel Convissor <danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote:
>
> > In the past, I've always used MySQL or Oracle, but mostly MySQL. Each
> SQL
> > distribution has its own peculiar ways of doing some things, and I know
> that
> > using some of the MySQL functions makes the code far easier to write and
> > also optimizes the speed of the query.
>
> In general, good SQL is good SQL, no matter what the platform is.
>
> The question you need to face is how important performance is vs how
> important portability is.  The answer depends on what you're doing.
>
> --Dan
>

I think a truly kickass abstraction lib would identify these dbms-specific
optimal (or weak) points for each of its supported dbmses and add methods to
its API to deal with them as appropriate for the selected one. That way,
developers only have to keep in mind the abstraction lib's API, instead of
peculiarities of each dbms.

-- 
Best,
Irfan Baig
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From spangia at redcent.net  Fri Feb 23 14:52:13 2007
From: spangia at redcent.net (Sean Pangia)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 14:52:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] php web search engine
In-Reply-To: <45DF3DA7.4000300@napalmriot.com>
References: <a304e2d60702141238v742002b7qc5ce14b27eb9792a@mail.gmail.com>
	<45DF3DA7.4000300@napalmriot.com>
Message-ID: <45DF45ED.5080105@redcent.net>

anyone have any experience with PhpDig?

http://www.phpdig.net/




Rick Olson wrote:

> Among the other ideas in this thread, you might also check out 
> sphinxsearch (http://www.sphinxsearch.com).  I started (but have not 
> finished...yet) a series on using and implementing it on my blog 
> (http://blog.sensual.jp).
> 
> It has some nice perks, one of which being the ability to index straight 
> out of MySQL (or postgresql), or from an XML format.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Rick
> http://www.sensual.jp
> 
> 
> N?stor wrote:
> 
>> Guys,
>>
>> I need to install a php search engine in our intranet.
>>
>> any recommendations?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> N?stor :-)
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 

-- 

   _______________________________________
   Sean Pangia

   Red Cent
   54 West 21st Street, #607
   NYC 10010

   212.255.3800 ext. 201
   www.redcent.net


From ramons at gmx.net  Fri Feb 23 15:22:36 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:22:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] time sheet
In-Reply-To: <79968.76639.qm@web30802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <79968.76639.qm@web30802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45DF4D0C.5080307@gmx.net>

selyah wrote:
> Hello:
> I am developing a report scheduler that will includes as headings, 
> Project Name, Date, Time Start, Time End, Description, and Total 
> Hours.   This is the issue, I need to have the hours column to be a 
> result of the subtraction of time start and time end.  Does PHP support 
> math capabilities and is there a function that does this?
> thanks in advance for you help
> 
> Ian
> 

You can convert the time to a unix time stamp and then use simple math 
operations to do the calculations, then convert the result back.

David


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Feb 24 14:25:57 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 14:25:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Upcoming Month of PHP Bugs
In-Reply-To: <45DCE755.9090508@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <b76252690702201559m7e7a0085h9dfa37436a650961@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070221224537.GA20498@panix.com>
	<b76252690702211614wacbabdes5dae92d3b0d5e9bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<45DCE755.9090508@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <20070224192557.GA5818@panix.com>

Sir Hans:

On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 07:44:05PM -0500, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
> 
> So the question is, what is the community's response to this issue?

Check out the discussions on the internals at lists.php.net mailing list.  
There was a thread that started on January 11 entitled "Comments on PHP 
security".

Unfortunately, there's no really good mailing list archive that I know of 
where one can nicely pull up the entire thread.  MARC doesn't have all the 
emails.  news.php.net doesn't do threading.

This link, which uses the ID of the initial email in the thread, is as 
close as you're going to get to something usable: 
http://news.php.net/php.internals/start/27357

To get the whole thread, just keep paging via next for more messages with 
that subject, don't be disuaded by other subjects getting mixed in the 
list.  The final message in the thread was on Jan 18 by Andi.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From support at dailytechnology.net  Sat Feb 24 20:13:44 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 20:13:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
Message-ID: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>

Hey guys, my google-fu is failing me today so I thought I would turn to 
the brilliant minds of the NYPHP.

What I'd like to do is be able to execute a php script in the background 
that does NOT impact the load time of the page itself. Something that 
runs in the background and doesn't tie up the web server. Does that make 
sense? Do any of you have any idea how one would accomplish this?

Thanks!
- Brian


From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Sat Feb 24 20:44:26 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 20:44:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
References: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <003901c7587e$7b9563a0$07d6f4a7@ced>

exec(), or AJAX.

But I think you need to give us some more info.

Edward JS Prevost II
Me at EdwardPrevost.info
www.EdwardPrevost.info
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Dailey" <support at dailytechnology.net>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 8:13 PM
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...


> Hey guys, my google-fu is failing me today so I thought I would turn to 
> the brilliant minds of the NYPHP.
> 
> What I'd like to do is be able to execute a php script in the background 
> that does NOT impact the load time of the page itself. Something that 
> runs in the background and doesn't tie up the web server. Does that make 
> sense? Do any of you have any idea how one would accomplish this?
> 
> Thanks!
> - Brian
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 



From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Sat Feb 24 20:45:23 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 20:45:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
In-Reply-To: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>
References: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <45E0EA33.4000209@cyberxdesigns.com>

Brian Dailey wrote:
> Hey guys, my google-fu is failing me today so I thought I would turn 
> to the brilliant minds of the NYPHP.
>
> What I'd like to do is be able to execute a php script in the 
> background that does NOT impact the load time of the page itself. 
> Something that runs in the background and doesn't tie up the web 
> server. Does that make sense? Do any of you have any idea how one 
> would accomplish this?
>
Fork off a php process and let it run separately.  I think Synder, Hans 
Z and Hendry were doing this for a app a couple of years ago with some 
success.  When the forked process is done it calls the original script 
and reports.  But you have to be conscious of garbage processes.

http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.pcntl-fork.php
http://us3.php.net/pcntl
http://www.electrictoolbox.com/article/php/process-forking/

Hans K
New Jersey Web Design
http://www.cyberxdesigns.com


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Sat Feb 24 21:03:43 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 21:03:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
In-Reply-To: <45E0EA33.4000209@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>
	<45E0EA33.4000209@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <45E0EE7F.307@cyberxdesigns.com>


> Fork off a php process and let it run separately.  I think Synder, 
> Hans Z and Hendry were doing this for a app a couple of years ago with 
> some success.  When the forked process is done it calls the original 
> script and reports.  But you have to be conscious of garbage processes.
>
> http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.pcntl-fork.php
> http://us3.php.net/pcntl
> http://www.electrictoolbox.com/article/php/process-forking/
>
>
I should add to my comment that you will need to call a CLI php script 
using exec to control your forked processes as you shouldn't fork from a 
web server script.  So I guess I jumped the gun.  Maybe just exec'ing 
another script will be enough.

Hans K
NJ Web Development
http://www.cyberxdesigns.com


From support at dailytechnology.net  Sat Feb 24 21:12:16 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 21:12:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
In-Reply-To: <45E0EA33.4000209@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>
	<45E0EA33.4000209@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <45E0F080.90300@dailytechnology.net>

 From the last link: "Note that you should never attempt to use these 
process control forking functions when using a webserver; you should 
only fork applications when using the PHP command line client."

I guess that kind of answers my question. exec() might actually be the 
only solution, I'm not sure - it just seems somewhat untidy. I would 
have to log any failures as I go along, I guess.

As an explanation of what I'm doing...

I have a cache. If an item in the cache is more than a week old, I want 
to re-fetch the item. I could schedule a job to check for all week-old 
objects and re-fetch them, but I think it would be more efficient to 
only run the re-fetch if someone loads the cached item and it's more 
than a week old (it's ok if web user gets the old item on that 
occurance). I don't want to make the user wait for fetching the cached 
item. I'd like to hand it off to another script that fetches it in the 
background, and doesn't tie up the user with the operation.

I hope that clarifies what I'm trying to do. Perhaps exec() is my only 
option.

- Brian

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
> Brian Dailey wrote:
>> Hey guys, my google-fu is failing me today so I thought I would turn 
>> to the brilliant minds of the NYPHP.
>>
>> What I'd like to do is be able to execute a php script in the 
>> background that does NOT impact the load time of the page itself. 
>> Something that runs in the background and doesn't tie up the web 
>> server. Does that make sense? Do any of you have any idea how one 
>> would accomplish this?
>>
> Fork off a php process and let it run separately.  I think Synder, Hans 
> Z and Hendry were doing this for a app a couple of years ago with some 
> success.  When the forked process is done it calls the original script 
> and reports.  But you have to be conscious of garbage processes.
> 
> http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.pcntl-fork.php
> http://us3.php.net/pcntl
> http://www.electrictoolbox.com/article/php/process-forking/
> 
> Hans K
> New Jersey Web Design
> http://www.cyberxdesigns.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 


From rolan at omnistep.com  Sat Feb 24 22:06:26 2007
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:06:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
In-Reply-To: <003901c7587e$7b9563a0$07d6f4a7@ced>
References: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>
	<003901c7587e$7b9563a0$07d6f4a7@ced>
Message-ID: <45E0FD32.5030208@omnistep.com>

I did something similar a while back where if a user submitted a stock 
symbol it would fetch the quotes from yahoo within their search range, 
but also launch a background process which would fetch daily quotes for 
the entire history of that particular stock. In the php script, I had 
something like:

`./backgroundgetquote.php $symbol > /dev/null &`;

which would fetch and cache the data for all future requests.

The downside to this was that there was nothing in place to stop 1000's 
of unique hits from running the cpu load through the roof.

~Rolan


CED wrote:
> exec(), or AJAX.
>
> But I think you need to give us some more info.
>
> Edward JS Prevost II
> Me at EdwardPrevost.info
> www.EdwardPrevost.info
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brian Dailey" <support at dailytechnology.net>
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 8:13 PM
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
>
>
>   
>> Hey guys, my google-fu is failing me today so I thought I would turn to 
>> the brilliant minds of the NYPHP.
>>
>> What I'd like to do is be able to execute a php script in the background 
>> that does NOT impact the load time of the page itself. Something that 
>> runs in the background and doesn't tie up the web server. Does that make 
>> sense? Do any of you have any idea how one would accomplish this?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> - Brian
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>>
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>   


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Sat Feb 24 22:09:36 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 19:09:36 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
In-Reply-To: <45E0F080.90300@dailytechnology.net>
References: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>	<45E0EA33.4000209@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<45E0F080.90300@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <32053-38033@sneakemail.com>

Brian Dailey support-at-dailytechnology.net |nyphp dev/internal group 
use| wrote:

> From the last link: "Note that you should never attempt to use these 
> process control forking functions when using a webserver; you should 
> only fork applications when using the PHP command line client."
>
> I guess that kind of answers my question. exec() might actually be the 
> only solution, I'm not sure - it just seems somewhat untidy. I would 
> have to log any failures as I go along, I guess.
>
> As an explanation of what I'm doing...
>
> I have a cache. If an item in the cache is more than a week old, I 
> want to re-fetch the item. I could schedule a job to check for all 
> week-old objects and re-fetch them, but I think it would be more 
> efficient to only run the re-fetch if someone loads the cached item 
> and it's more than a week old (it's ok if web user gets the old item 
> on that occurance). I don't want to make the user wait for fetching 
> the cached item. I'd like to hand it off to another script that 
> fetches it in the background, and doesn't tie up the user with the 
> operation.
>
> I hope that clarifies what I'm trying to do. Perhaps exec() is my only 
> option.
>
> - Brian


It sounds like a "dumb cache" or "lazy cache" I've done this many times, 
many different ways.

One way is have a front controller either displays an existing  file or 
dispatches to a dynamic view script, based on date check. The dynamic 
script replaces the "dumb cache" file version. Sort of typical cache 
behavior.

Another way is to store "expired" token in the database, and have the 
view controller tick it when a page request comes in and the file is 
noted to be out of date. A CRON-based script regenerates the out of date 
files based ona query of the expired bits. If the regeneration is fast 
enough,  I like to use a 404 controller to do the regeneration 
automagically on page request.

In your case you've specified that your user is allowed to see an out of 
date file, and it sounds like your regeneration takes a while, so I'd 
use the database (or a flat file if you don't already maintain a db 
connection.. the cron'd script can be thorough with cleanup tasks 
because it really does hav all day to get the job done).

Hope that's helpful.

-=john andrews
Competitive Webmaster blogging at www.johnon.com







From support at dailytechnology.net  Sat Feb 24 22:27:57 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:27:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
In-Reply-To: <32053-38033@sneakemail.com>
References: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>	<45E0EA33.4000209@cyberxdesigns.com>	<45E0F080.90300@dailytechnology.net>
	<32053-38033@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <45E1023D.1090508@dailytechnology.net>

That's actually a really good suggestion. Instead of just scheduling a 
job that updates all caches that are X number of days old I can just 
update the ones that have been requested in the past day.

I appreciate all of the input!

- Brian

inforequest wrote:
> Brian Dailey support-at-dailytechnology.net |nyphp dev/internal group 
> use| wrote:
> 
>> From the last link: "Note that you should never attempt to use these 
>> process control forking functions when using a webserver; you should 
>> only fork applications when using the PHP command line client."
>>
>> I guess that kind of answers my question. exec() might actually be the 
>> only solution, I'm not sure - it just seems somewhat untidy. I would 
>> have to log any failures as I go along, I guess.
>>
>> As an explanation of what I'm doing...
>>
>> I have a cache. If an item in the cache is more than a week old, I 
>> want to re-fetch the item. I could schedule a job to check for all 
>> week-old objects and re-fetch them, but I think it would be more 
>> efficient to only run the re-fetch if someone loads the cached item 
>> and it's more than a week old (it's ok if web user gets the old item 
>> on that occurance). I don't want to make the user wait for fetching 
>> the cached item. I'd like to hand it off to another script that 
>> fetches it in the background, and doesn't tie up the user with the 
>> operation.
>>
>> I hope that clarifies what I'm trying to do. Perhaps exec() is my only 
>> option.
>>
>> - Brian
> 
> 
> It sounds like a "dumb cache" or "lazy cache" I've done this many times, 
> many different ways.
> 
> One way is have a front controller either displays an existing  file or 
> dispatches to a dynamic view script, based on date check. The dynamic 
> script replaces the "dumb cache" file version. Sort of typical cache 
> behavior.
> 
> Another way is to store "expired" token in the database, and have the 
> view controller tick it when a page request comes in and the file is 
> noted to be out of date. A CRON-based script regenerates the out of date 
> files based ona query of the expired bits. If the regeneration is fast 
> enough,  I like to use a 404 controller to do the regeneration 
> automagically on page request.
> 
> In your case you've specified that your user is allowed to see an out of 
> date file, and it sounds like your regeneration takes a while, so I'd 
> use the database (or a flat file if you don't already maintain a db 
> connection.. the cron'd script can be thorough with cleanup tasks 
> because it really does hav all day to get the job done).
> 
> Hope that's helpful.
> 
> -=john andrews
> Competitive Webmaster blogging at www.johnon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 


From paul at devonianfarm.com  Sun Feb 25 13:56:56 2007
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul Houle)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:56:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
In-Reply-To: <45E0F080.90300@dailytechnology.net>
References: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>	<45E0EA33.4000209@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<45E0F080.90300@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <45E1DBF8.1040107@devonianfarm.com>

Brian Dailey wrote:
> From the last link: "Note that you should never attempt to use these 
> process control forking functions when using a webserver; you should 
> only fork applications when using the PHP command line client."
    Another strategy is to write a long-running service task in a cron job.

    For instance,  imagine that you've got a web application that sends 
bulk e-mail,  say groups in the 1000-10,000 people range.

    It would be pretty crazy to have a single PHP script hanging there,  
running a foreach() loop to send 10,000 messages.  All kinds of bad 
things can happen -- for instance,  the sender thinks that the app is 
busted,  reloads,  reloads,  and reloads again,  so everybody ends up 
getting 4 messages.

    A good answer in this case is to write a cron job/scheduled task 
that wakes up every five minutes,  sends a few mails,  and then dies.  
The background job is controlled by a work queue,  which could be a 
table in the database.   A system like this can send e-mail messages,  
gather information,  or do computations in an orderly way -- it's easy 
to put in job controls of various sorts.


From agfische at email.smith.edu  Sun Feb 25 15:47:45 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:47:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best way to copy array by value
Message-ID: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>

I need to copy an array by value, not by reference.  Is there a best  
way to do this?  Right now I found serialize/unserialize which seems  
to do the trick.

Python has a function called deepcopy:
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-copy.html

For Java, it appears you can use a handmade function or serialize/ 
unserialize:
http://java.sun.com/developer/JDCTechTips/2001/tt0410.html

PHP seems to be similar to Java, in that you can write a function  
yourself or use serialize/unserialize.  I haven't found a function  
like deepcopy.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

-Aaron



From chris at theyellowbox.com  Sun Feb 25 16:47:59 2007
From: chris at theyellowbox.com (Chris Merlo)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 16:47:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best way to copy array by value
In-Reply-To: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>
References: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <946586480702251347q54123f8xd8d614b59b0858eb@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/25/07, Aaron Fischer <agfische at email.smith.edu> wrote:
>
> I need to copy an array by value, not by reference.  Is there a best
> way to do this?
>

That depends on what the array contains.  If it contains primitives
(numbers, chars, or booleans), you can just write a loop.  If it contains
objects, just a loop still uses the = operator, which performs a deep copy
at the array level, but a shallow copy at the element/object level.  I teach
my (Java) students that they should have a deep copy method written in
classes they write (by overriding Object.clone), and then they can call that
in the loop.  But I'm not sure if there's an analogue to that method in PHP.

So, if you're copying an array of objects of a class you wrote, write in a
clone method.  If it's objects of a provided class, maybe the docs (or
others here) can shed some light on a clone-like method.  And if it's
primitives, just go for it.

BTW, just so you know, I haven't tested any of this.  This is just based on
my observation that PHP 5 is a whole lot like Java.  YMMV.
-c
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From ken at secdat.com  Sun Feb 25 17:06:41 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:06:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Term: Definition-Oriented Programming
Message-ID: <45E20871.4060707@secdat.com>

In discussing Andromeda and other frameworks here and elsewhere, I often 
run into difficulties because Andromeda does not follow the assumptions 
of MVC frameworks, and does not use ORM, along with many other differences.

After working on this for 2.5 years, I'm fairly confident that the 
Andromeda approach is unique and deserves  a term to describe it.  I 
have settled on the term "Definition Oriented Programming" and have 
written up a summary of this approach here:

http://www.andromeda-project.org/?gp_page=p_dop

Comments always welcome.

-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com / www.andromeda-project.org
Office: 631-689-7200   Cell: 631-379-0010

::Think you may have a problem with programming? Ask yourself this 
::question: do you worry about how to throw away a garbage can?



From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sun Feb 25 17:39:50 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:39:50 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best way to copy array by value
In-Reply-To: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>
References: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <20070225223950.GA3440@panix.com>

Aaron:

On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 03:47:45PM -0500, Aaron Fischer wrote:
> I need to copy an array by value, not by reference.  Is there a best  
> way to do this?  Right now I found serialize/unserialize which seems  
> to do the trick.

What ARE you talking about?  Copying by value is the default behavior in 
PHP.


INPUT:
$a1 = array('a', 'b');
$a2 = $a1;
$a1[0] = 'changed';
print_r($a1);
print_r($a2);


OUTPUT:
Array
(
    [0] => changed
    [1] => b
)
Array
(
    [0] => a
    [1] => b
)


--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Feb 25 18:43:48 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:43:48 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best way to copy array by value
In-Reply-To: <20070225223950.GA3440@panix.com>
References: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>
	<20070225223950.GA3440@panix.com>
Message-ID: <29013-52235@sneakemail.com>

Daniel Convissor danielc-at-analysisandsolutions.com |nyphp dev/internal 
group use| wrote:

>Aaron:
>
>On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 03:47:45PM -0500, Aaron Fischer wrote:
>  
>
>>I need to copy an array by value, not by reference.  Is there a best  
>>way to do this?  Right now I found serialize/unserialize which seems  
>>to do the trick.
>>    
>>
>
>What ARE you talking about?  Copying by value is the default behavior in 
>PHP.
>
>
>INPUT:
>$a1 = array('a', 'b');
>$a2 = $a1;
>$a1[0] = 'changed';
>print_r($a1);
>print_r($a2);
>
>
>OUTPUT:
>Array
>(
>    [0] => changed
>    [1] => b
>)
>Array
>(
>    [0] => a
>    [1] => b
>)
>
>
>--Dan
>
>  
>
That Dan's just a straight shooter with management written all over him ;-)




From shiflett at php.net  Sun Feb 25 22:41:51 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:41:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best way to copy array by value
In-Reply-To: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>
References: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <45E256FF.4060202@php.net>

Aaron Fischer wrote:
> I need to copy an array by value, not by reference.

PHP copies on demand, so as soon as you change one, it does what you'd
expect.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From lists at silmail.com  Mon Feb 26 08:13:58 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:43:58 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP and running background tasks...
In-Reply-To: <45E1DBF8.1040107@devonianfarm.com>
References: <45E0E2C8.1080909@dailytechnology.net>
	<45E0EA33.4000209@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<45E0F080.90300@dailytechnology.net>
	<45E1DBF8.1040107@devonianfarm.com>
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702260513w4a21f740v164fb42ac60067ae@mail.gmail.com>

>
>     A good answer in this case is to write a cron job/scheduled task
> that wakes up every five minutes,  sends a few mails,  and then dies.
> The background job is controlled by a work queue,  which could be a
> table in the database.   A system like this can send e-mail messages,
> gather information,  or do computations in an orderly way -- it's easy
> to put in job controls of various sorts.
>

Hey this is a great idea..

Last time when I had to do something like this; I will explain the
situation...

In one of our distributed applications, we have local installations at the
client branch offices, with local MySQL and front end application, which
communicates with a LAMP server, to update changes in the sql db, by
uploading a set of standard SQL queries.  Here I wanted the server just to
verify the uploaded file, and tell the client that everything is okay if the
the md5 sum of the file passes.. and once this is over, this uploaded file
is placed into a folder, and a service listed with the xinetd, is initmated
using the fsock open.. and sending a predefined command. There the xinetd
service would just close the connection, and continue with processing the
uploaded file.. the queue method is somewhat as explained above, the only
difference is that I used the xinetd process to listen on a specified port
on the 127.x.x.x spectrum.


-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
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From rothmail at comcast.net  Mon Feb 26 09:07:39 2007
From: rothmail at comcast.net (David A. Roth)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:07:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] /etc/php.ini changes aren't picked up immediately?
Message-ID: <023136dd3e73e213e2f8718e1de289ea@comcast.net>

The system:
CentOS 4.4 x86_64
Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.9-42.0.8.ELsmp #1 SMP Tue Jan 30 
12:18:01 EST 2007 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
PHP 4.3.9 (cgi) (built: Feb 21 2007 06:31:24)

I noticed changes I made to the /etc/php.ini didn't take effect 
immediately. Calling it a night, I turned off the system, and when I 
brought it back up this morning the changes were there. Is this normal 
behavior? I mean, there is no php process to start and stop process. 
Should rebooting a system after making changes to the /etc/php.ini be 
considered normal?

I was changing the settings on these two in the /etc/php.ini to make 
Joomla happy.
Magic Quotes GPC:
Display Errors:

The only other thing different on this system is I installed webmin 
which I noticed has a PHP configuration menu. I don't know if there is 
a possible conflict there or not.

Thanks,

David Roth
rothmail at comcast.net





From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Mon Feb 26 09:13:01 2007
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:13:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] /etc/php.ini changes aren't picked up immediately?
In-Reply-To: <023136dd3e73e213e2f8718e1de289ea@comcast.net>
References: <023136dd3e73e213e2f8718e1de289ea@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.9.1363003658.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

At 09:07 AM 2/26/2007, David A. Roth wrote:
>The system:
>CentOS 4.4 x86_64
>Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.9-42.0.8.ELsmp #1 SMP Tue Jan 30 
>12:18:01 EST 2007 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>PHP 4.3.9 (cgi) (built: Feb 21 2007 06:31:24)
>
>I noticed changes I made to the /etc/php.ini didn't take effect 
>immediately. Calling it a night, I turned off the system, and when I 
>brought it back up this morning the changes were there. Is this 
>normal behavior? I mean, there is no php process to start and stop 
>process. Should rebooting a system after making changes to the 
>/etc/php.ini be considered normal?

Your webserver needs to be restarted in order for changes to PHP.INI 
to take affect.

Ken 



From tim at tmcode.com  Mon Feb 26 09:13:14 2007
From: tim at tmcode.com (Tim McEwen)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:13:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] /etc/php.ini changes aren't picked up immediately?
In-Reply-To: <023136dd3e73e213e2f8718e1de289ea@comcast.net>
References: <023136dd3e73e213e2f8718e1de289ea@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <02C6B137-4470-45B3-8AC2-E42807E0D03E@tmcode.com>

Sounds like you are using PHP as an Apache module in which case the  
ini file won't take affect until you restart apache.

Try using:

apachectl graceful


-Tim

On Feb 26, 2007, at 9:07 AM, David A.Roth wrote:

> The system:
> CentOS 4.4 x86_64
> Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.9-42.0.8.ELsmp #1 SMP Tue Jan 30  
> 12:18:01 EST 2007 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
> PHP 4.3.9 (cgi) (built: Feb 21 2007 06:31:24)
>
> I noticed changes I made to the /etc/php.ini didn't take effect  
> immediately. Calling it a night, I turned off the system, and when  
> I brought it back up this morning the changes were there. Is this  
> normal behavior? I mean, there is no php process to start and stop  
> process. Should rebooting a system after making changes to the /etc/ 
> php.ini be considered normal?
>
> I was changing the settings on these two in the /etc/php.ini to  
> make Joomla happy.
> Magic Quotes GPC:
> Display Errors:
>
> The only other thing different on this system is I installed webmin  
> which I noticed has a PHP configuration menu. I don't know if there  
> is a possible conflict there or not.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Roth
> rothmail at comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Feb 26 09:17:59 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:17:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] /etc/php.ini changes aren't picked up
 immediately?
In-Reply-To: <023136dd3e73e213e2f8718e1de289ea@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C2085647.ECC%cliff@pinestream.com>

Yes, you have to restart Apache for changes in php.ini to take effect.

On 2/26/07 9:07 AM, "David A. Roth" <rothmail at comcast.net> wrote:

> The system:
> CentOS 4.4 x86_64
> Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.9-42.0.8.ELsmp #1 SMP Tue Jan 30
> 12:18:01 EST 2007 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
> PHP 4.3.9 (cgi) (built: Feb 21 2007 06:31:24)
> 
> I noticed changes I made to the /etc/php.ini didn't take effect
> immediately. Calling it a night, I turned off the system, and when I
> brought it back up this morning the changes were there. Is this normal
> behavior? I mean, there is no php process to start and stop process.
> Should rebooting a system after making changes to the /etc/php.ini be
> considered normal?
> 
> I was changing the settings on these two in the /etc/php.ini to make
> Joomla happy.
> Magic Quotes GPC:
> Display Errors:
> 
> The only other thing different on this system is I installed webmin
> which I noticed has a PHP configuration menu. I don't know if there is
> a possible conflict there or not.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David Roth
> rothmail at comcast.net




From r.mariotti at fdcx.net  Mon Feb 26 09:19:30 2007
From: r.mariotti at fdcx.net (R. Mariotti)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:19:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone Use PHP to access Bynari Insight LDAP Server?
Message-ID: <45E2EC72.8010807@fdcx.net>

Fellow phpers;

Our shop uses the above referenced LDAP server for email authentication
and I've been asked to use the same for our overall user authentication.

As I delve into this task, seeing that the docs are rather sparse, I was
wondering if anyone of you had ever accessed this product before?

Perhaps ever, can someone reference some example php code to access even
an ldap database for authentication?

Thanks in advance,

bobmct



From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Feb 26 09:26:30 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:26:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
Message-ID: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>

I?m seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript
is turned off. In fact, I?m looking at purchasing a slick shopping cart that
seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback is a show stopper.

Whatever happened to building a robust PHP application and only then
layering on the client-side enhancements? To me this lack of progressive
fall-back is just laziness, arrogance, or the victim of the usual time
pressures. This isn?t an opinionated group ? right?! So I curious to here
what others think. 

Are there any data sources that measure what browsers people are using today
and what percentage of people turn JS off or don?t have it?

Cliff
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From agfische at email.smith.edu  Mon Feb 26 09:28:40 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:28:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best way to copy array by value
In-Reply-To: <20070225223950.GA3440@panix.com>
References: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>
	<20070225223950.GA3440@panix.com>
Message-ID: <042B51F9-A3C8-4460-9D24-8869B994ADC9@email.smith.edu>

Indeed it does.  Sorry!  I was led to believe (by my cs professor)  
that the default behavior when copying an array is that the copied  
array is not a new instance but is tied by pointers to the old array,  
so changes to one would change both of them.  Other people in the  
class are using python and java, and apparently that is the case for  
them as they need to use separate functions to make sure the copy  
created is not tied to the old array.

Down near the bottom of the php.net page on arrays, right before the  
user comments:
You should be aware that array assignment always involves value  
copying. It also means that the internal array pointer used by current 
() and similar functions is reset. You need to use the reference  
operator to copy an array by reference.
http://us2.php.net/manual/en/language.types.array.php

-Aaron

On Feb 25, 2007, at 5:39 PM, Daniel Convissor wrote:

> Aaron:
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 03:47:45PM -0500, Aaron Fischer wrote:
>> I need to copy an array by value, not by reference.  Is there a best
>> way to do this?  Right now I found serialize/unserialize which seems
>> to do the trick.
>
> What ARE you talking about?  Copying by value is the default  
> behavior in
> PHP.
>



From ken at secdat.com  Mon Feb 26 09:41:36 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:41:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <45E2F1A0.4010601@secdat.com>

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if 
> JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick 
> shopping cart that seems great, but I think the lack of progressive 
> fallback is a show stopper.
>
> Whatever happened to building a robust PHP application and only then 
> layering on the client-side enhancements? To me this lack of 
> progressive fall-back is just laziness, arrogance, or the victim of 
> the usual time pressures. This isn't an opinionated group --- right?! 
> So I curious to here what others think.

It's probably just market trends.  Fewer and fewer people have 
Javascript turned off (or so it is perceived), and so they are less and 
less of a constituency.  At some point a person says, why am I bothering 
with this for? Or, how far back to I have to remain compatible? Then a 
lot of people say that, and suddenly Javascript is required.


>
> Are there any data sources that measure what browsers people are using 
> today and what percentage of people turn JS off or don't have it?
>
> Cliff
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com / www.andromeda-project.org
Office: 631-689-7200   Cell: 631-379-0010

::Think you may have a problem with programming? Ask yourself this 
::question: do you worry about how to throw away a garbage can?

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From tboyden at supercoups.com  Mon Feb 26 09:43:35 2007
From: tboyden at supercoups.com (Timothy Boyden)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:43:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone Use PHP to access Bynari Insight LDAP Server?
In-Reply-To: <45E2EC72.8010807@fdcx.net>
References: <45E2EC72.8010807@fdcx.net>
Message-ID: <C12F0900C695FF47AEE0A7C2C75760A07D2EA7@greenmonster.supercoups.local>

I've never used that particular product, but I have queried Windows
Active Directory which is also LDAP based. I got my start with the
documentation here: http://us3.php.net/manual/en/ref.ldap.php and by
reading the referenced links.

-Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of R. Mariotti
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:20 AM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone Use PHP to access Bynari Insight LDAP
Server?

Fellow phpers;

Our shop uses the above referenced LDAP server for email authentication
and I've been asked to use the same for our overall user authentication.

As I delve into this task, seeing that the docs are rather sparse, I was
wondering if anyone of you had ever accessed this product before?

Perhaps ever, can someone reference some example php code to access even
an ldap database for authentication?

Thanks in advance,

bobmct

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From apg88zx at gmail.com  Mon Feb 26 09:46:06 2007
From: apg88zx at gmail.com (Alvaro P.)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:46:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone Use PHP to access Bynari Insight LDAP Server?
In-Reply-To: <45E2EC72.8010807@fdcx.net>
References: <45E2EC72.8010807@fdcx.net>
Message-ID: <45E2F2AE.4040002@gmail.com>

Here is a good script for LDAP authentication in PHP..
http://bjcpgd.cias.rit.edu/index.php/2007/01/16/php-rit-ldap-authentication-function/

The specific data for your users is probably different, but if all you 
want to see is if their username and password are valid, this will work.

Alvaro

R. Mariotti wrote:
> Fellow phpers;
>
> Our shop uses the above referenced LDAP server for email authentication
> and I've been asked to use the same for our overall user authentication.
>
> As I delve into this task, seeing that the docs are rather sparse, I was
> wondering if anyone of you had ever accessed this product before?
>
> Perhaps ever, can someone reference some example php code to access even
> an ldap database for authentication?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> bobmct
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



From randalrust at gmail.com  Mon Feb 26 09:57:25 2007
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:57:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone Use PHP to access Bynari Insight LDAP Server?
In-Reply-To: <45E2EC72.8010807@fdcx.net>
References: <45E2EC72.8010807@fdcx.net>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50702260657j44588334u88a4b2acc185afe5@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/26/07, R. Mariotti <r.mariotti at fdcx.net> wrote:

> Perhaps ever, can someone reference some example php code to access even
> an ldap database for authentication?

I have been working with an LDAP system myself, but I have not made it
to the authentication part yet.

I personally have found it extremely frustrating to work with. Not
necessarily because of LDAP, but in how the client actually uses LDAP.

Anyway, I thought I would pass on some resources that I have found useful:

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/sysadmin/2006/11/09/demystifying-ldap-data.html
http://www.directory-info.com/LDAP/LDAPErrorCodes.html
http://www.bind9.net/ldap-tools
http://www.zytrax.com/books/ldap/
http://ldap.akbkhome.com/index.php
http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/16191.html

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From rothmail at comcast.net  Mon Feb 26 09:58:03 2007
From: rothmail at comcast.net (David A. Roth)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:58:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: talk Digest, Vol 4, Issue 51
Message-ID: <8669939a71e2f4b2cba8316193856342@comcast.net>

> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:13:01 -0500
> From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] /etc/php.ini changes aren't picked up
> 	immediately?
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Message-ID: <mailman.386.1172499183.16182.talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 09:07 AM 2/26/2007, David A. Roth wrote:
>> The system:
>> CentOS 4.4 x86_64
>> Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.9-42.0.8.ELsmp #1 SMP Tue Jan 30
>> 12:18:01 EST 2007 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>> PHP 4.3.9 (cgi) (built: Feb 21 2007 06:31:24)
>>
>> I noticed changes I made to the /etc/php.ini didn't take effect
>> immediately. Calling it a night, I turned off the system, and when I
>> brought it back up this morning the changes were there. Is this
>> normal behavior? I mean, there is no php process to start and stop
>> process. Should rebooting a system after making changes to the
>> /etc/php.ini be considered normal?
>
> Your webserver needs to be restarted in order for changes to PHP.INI
> to take affect.
>
> Ken
>
Thanks for the posting. Does this only apply to the /etc/php.ini? What 
about if you copy the /etc/php.ini file locally and edit it, like users 
do on web hosting services where they aren't root so they can't restart 
Apache?

Thanks,

David Roth
rothmail at comcast.net



From mwithington at PLMresearch.com  Mon Feb 26 10:08:19 2007
From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:08:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <45E2F1A0.4010601@secdat.com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com> <45E2F1A0.4010601@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <491198290702260708t50ae2df7nd3d93fe5f3af16a1@mail.gmail.com>

I agree.  With absolutely no data to back this up, I bet any "serious"
web user has JavaScript on and probably [relatively] up-to-date on
their browser version.  So, like the proverbial Willy Sutton reply,
[Why do you rob banks, Willy?] "Cause that's where the money is"

Why do we write code with no progressive fall-back? "Cause that's
where the money is"

On 2/26/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>
>  Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>  I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript
> is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick shopping cart that
> seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback is a show stopper.
>
>  Whatever happened to building a robust PHP application and only then
> layering on the client-side enhancements? To me this lack of progressive
> fall-back is just laziness, arrogance, or the victim of the usual time
> pressures. This isn't an opinionated group ? right?! So I curious to here
> what others think.
>
>  It's probably just market trends.  Fewer and fewer people have Javascript
> turned off (or so it is perceived), and so they are less and less of a
> constituency.  At some point a person says, why am I bothering with this
> for? Or, how far back to I have to remain compatible? Then a lot of people
> say that, and suddenly Javascript is required.
>
>
>
>
>  Are there any data sources that measure what browsers people are using
> today and what percentage of people turn JS off or don't have it?
>
>  Cliff ________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>  --
> Kenneth Downs
> Secure Data Software, Inc.
> www.secdat.com / www.andromeda-project.org
> Office: 631-689-7200 Cell: 631-379-0010
>
> ::Think you may have a problem with programming? Ask yourself this
> ::question: do you worry about how to throw away a garbage can?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
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Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php

From support at dailytechnology.net  Mon Feb 26 10:14:04 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:14:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <45E2F1A0.4010601@secdat.com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com> <45E2F1A0.4010601@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <45E2F93C.5060501@dailytechnology.net>

I have a split opinion on this.

I've set up a lot of applications where javascript really was required 
for some things that I wanted to do. Sometimes it really just isn't an 
option. However, I think it's good practice to at least *warn* the user 
that javascript is required. This is really true for applications 
developed for a niche - a small group of users that you have some 
measure of control over.

On the other hand, for applications developed for the public in general, 
I try to make it was friendly as possible for those who choose to 
disable Javascript (the only people that seem to do this these days are 
Firefox users who are trying to avoid annoying ads).

I myself haven't seen any statistics on Javascript usage - all I've 
heard has been anecdotal. I'd be curious to see some stats as well.


- Brian

Kenneth Downs wrote:
> Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>> I?m seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if 
>> JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I?m looking at purchasing a slick 
>> shopping cart that seems great, but I think the lack of progressive 
>> fallback is a show stopper.
>>
>> Whatever happened to building a robust PHP application and only then 
>> layering on the client-side enhancements? To me this lack of 
>> progressive fall-back is just laziness, arrogance, or the victim of 
>> the usual time pressures. This isn?t an opinionated group ? right?! So 
>> I curious to here what others think.
> 
> It's probably just market trends.  Fewer and fewer people have 
> Javascript turned off (or so it is perceived), and so they are less and 
> less of a constituency.  At some point a person says, why am I bothering 
> with this for? Or, how far back to I have to remain compatible? Then a 
> lot of people say that, and suddenly Javascript is required.
> 
> 
>>
>> Are there any data sources that measure what browsers people are using 
>> today and what percentage of people turn JS off or don?t have it?
>>
>> Cliff
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kenneth Downs
> Secure Data Software, Inc.
> www.secdat.com / www.andromeda-project.org
> Office: 631-689-7200   Cell: 631-379-0010
> 
> ::Think you may have a problem with programming? Ask yourself this 
> ::question: do you worry about how to throw away a garbage can?
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From support at dailytechnology.net  Mon Feb 26 10:16:59 2007
From: support at dailytechnology.net (Brian Dailey)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:16:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best way to copy array by value
In-Reply-To: <042B51F9-A3C8-4460-9D24-8869B994ADC9@email.smith.edu>
References: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>	<20070225223950.GA3440@panix.com>
	<042B51F9-A3C8-4460-9D24-8869B994ADC9@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <45E2F9EB.6050603@dailytechnology.net>

If your professor was referring to PHP, it's possible he could have been 
referring to objects, not arrays. Objects are copied by reference, so if 
you do this:

$Item = new Item;
$Item2 = $Item;
$Item2->setProductId('12');
print $Item->getProductId();

Your output will be '12'. If you want to copy an object in PHP 5 you'll 
need to use 'clone.'

Aaron Fischer wrote:
> Indeed it does.  Sorry!  I was led to believe (by my cs professor) that 
> the default behavior when copying an array is that the copied array is 
> not a new instance but is tied by pointers to the old array, so changes 
> to one would change both of them.  Other people in the class are using 
> python and java, and apparently that is the case for them as they need 
> to use separate functions to make sure the copy created is not tied to 
> the old array.
> 
> Down near the bottom of the php.net page on arrays, right before the 
> user comments:
> You should be aware that array assignment always involves value copying. 
> It also means that the internal array pointer used by current() and 
> similar functions is reset. You need to use the reference operator to 
> copy an array by reference.
> http://us2.php.net/manual/en/language.types.array.php
> 
> -Aaron
> 
> On Feb 25, 2007, at 5:39 PM, Daniel Convissor wrote:
> 
>> Aaron:
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 03:47:45PM -0500, Aaron Fischer wrote:
>>> I need to copy an array by value, not by reference.  Is there a best
>>> way to do this?  Right now I found serialize/unserialize which seems
>>> to do the trick.
>>
>> What ARE you talking about?  Copying by value is the default behavior in
>> PHP.
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 


From dirn at dirnonline.com  Mon Feb 26 10:24:10 2007
From: dirn at dirnonline.com (Andy Dirnberger)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:24:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no
	progressive	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <491198290702260708t50ae2df7nd3d93fe5f3af16a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com> <45E2F1A0.4010601@secdat.com>
	<491198290702260708t50ae2df7nd3d93fe5f3af16a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c759ba$2bbcefa0$8336cee0$@com>

I usually use http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp as a rough guide.  It shows 94% JavaScript on, 6% off for January 2007.

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Mark Withington
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 10:08 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

I agree.  With absolutely no data to back this up, I bet any "serious"
web user has JavaScript on and probably [relatively] up-to-date on their browser version.  So, like the proverbial Willy Sutton reply, [Why do you rob banks, Willy?] "Cause that's where the money is"

Why do we write code with no progressive fall-back? "Cause that's where the money is"

On 2/26/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>
>  Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>  I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if 
> JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick 
> shopping cart that seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback is a show stopper.
>
>  Whatever happened to building a robust PHP application and only then 
> layering on the client-side enhancements? To me this lack of 
> progressive fall-back is just laziness, arrogance, or the victim of 
> the usual time pressures. This isn't an opinionated group ? right?! So 
> I curious to here what others think.
>
>  It's probably just market trends.  Fewer and fewer people have 
> Javascript turned off (or so it is perceived), and so they are less 
> and less of a constituency.  At some point a person says, why am I 
> bothering with this for? Or, how far back to I have to remain 
> compatible? Then a lot of people say that, and suddenly Javascript is required.
>
>
>
>
>  Are there any data sources that measure what browsers people are 
> using today and what percentage of people turn JS off or don't have it?
>
>  Cliff ________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>  --
> Kenneth Downs
> Secure Data Software, Inc.
> www.secdat.com / www.andromeda-project.org
> Office: 631-689-7200 Cell: 631-379-0010
>
> ::Think you may have a problem with programming? Ask yourself this
> ::question: do you worry about how to throw away a garbage can?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


--
Mark

--------------------------
Mark L. Withington
PLMresearch
PO Box 1354
Plymouth, MA  02362
o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704
f: 508-746-4973
v: 508-746-2383
m: 508-801-0181
Skype: 508-570-2285
http://www.PLMresearch.com
AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch
mwithington at plmresearch.com
Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc
Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php



From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Mon Feb 26 10:30:14 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:30:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: talk Digest, Vol 4, Issue 51
In-Reply-To: <8669939a71e2f4b2cba8316193856342@comcast.net>
References: <8669939a71e2f4b2cba8316193856342@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAF0B0CC-A391-4EFC-9313-48638B88CF5E@beaffinitive.com>

>> Thanks for the posting. Does this only apply to the /etc/php.ini?  
>> What about if you copy the /etc/php.ini file locally and edit it,  
>> like users do on web hosting services where they aren't root so  
>> they can't restart Apache?

If users on shared hosting services have access to some type of  
personal php.ini, then php isn't being loaded into apache as a module  
but is instead being run as a cgi via suPHP or something similar.

I see in your original post:
> PHP 4.3.9 (cgi)

Do you have more info on how apache is serving php pages?  Maybe  
search your httpd.conf file (and any included files) for php...

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From agfische at email.smith.edu  Mon Feb 26 10:30:31 2007
From: agfische at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:30:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best way to copy array by value
In-Reply-To: <45E2F9EB.6050603@dailytechnology.net>
References: <8B1E222F-CE43-48B1-BB34-C3F8241E27D6@email.smith.edu>	<20070225223950.GA3440@panix.com>
	<042B51F9-A3C8-4460-9D24-8869B994ADC9@email.smith.edu>
	<45E2F9EB.6050603@dailytechnology.net>
Message-ID: <CF42FA95-520B-4554-A4A6-89D2209CDA2D@email.smith.edu>

I think he was making an assumption about PHP based on how other  
languages work.  Everyone in the class is using Python or Java.  He  
is letting me use PHP, which hasn't been done before in this class.

Thanks for the tip on objects, I'll keep that in mind.

-Aaron

On Feb 26, 2007, at 10:16 AM, Brian Dailey wrote:

> If your professor was referring to PHP, it's possible he could have  
> been referring to objects, not arrays. Objects are copied by  
> reference, so if you do this:
>
> $Item = new Item;
> $Item2 = $Item;
> $Item2->setProductId('12');
> print $Item->getProductId();
>
> Your output will be '12'. If you want to copy an object in PHP 5  
> you'll need to use 'clone.'
>
> Aaron Fischer wrote:
>> Indeed it does.  Sorry!  I was led to believe (by my cs professor)  
>> that the default behavior when copying an array is that the copied  
>> array is not a new instance but is tied by pointers to the old  
>> array, so changes to one would change both of them.


From r.mariotti at fdcx.net  Mon Feb 26 10:33:31 2007
From: r.mariotti at fdcx.net (R. Mariotti)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:33:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Anyone Use PHP to access Bynari Insight
In-Reply-To: <200702261505.l1QF5qPA023203@post.ntplx.net>
References: <200702261505.l1QF5qPA023203@post.ntplx.net>
Message-ID: <45E2FDCB.8010209@fdcx.net>

>    7. RE: Anyone Use PHP to access Bynari Insight LDAP Server?
>       (Timothy Boyden)
>    8. Re: Anyone Use PHP to access Bynari Insight LDAP Server?
>       (Alvaro P.)
>    9. Re: Anyone Use PHP to access Bynari Insight LDAP Server?
>       (Randal Rust)

Thanks a million gents...

The references are MUCH appreciated....

Bob


From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Feb 26 11:18:46 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:18:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <002b01c759ba$2bbcefa0$8336cee0$@com>
Message-ID: <C2087296.EFA%cliff@pinestream.com>

I just found those figures too. Doesn't say who that 6% is. Seems small, but
6% of a billion is a big #. A bit scary if you have a broad target audience.

On 2/26/07 10:24 AM, "Andy Dirnberger" <dirn at dirnonline.com> wrote:

> I usually use http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp as a rough
> guide.  It shows 94% JavaScript on, 6% off for January 2007.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
> Behalf Of Mark Withington
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 10:08 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
> fall-back
> 
> I agree.  With absolutely no data to back this up, I bet any "serious"
> web user has JavaScript on and probably [relatively] up-to-date on their
> browser version.  So, like the proverbial Willy Sutton reply, [Why do you rob
> banks, Willy?] "Cause that's where the money is"
> 
> Why do we write code with no progressive fall-back? "Cause that's where the
> money is"
> 
> On 2/26/07, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>>  I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if
>> JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick
>> shopping cart that seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback
>> is a show stopper.
>> 
>>  Whatever happened to building a robust PHP application and only then
>> layering on the client-side enhancements? To me this lack of
>> progressive fall-back is just laziness, arrogance, or the victim of
>> the usual time pressures. This isn't an opinionated group ? right?! So
>> I curious to here what others think.
>> 
>>  It's probably just market trends.  Fewer and fewer people have
>> Javascript turned off (or so it is perceived), and so they are less
>> and less of a constituency.  At some point a person says, why am I
>> bothering with this for? Or, how far back to I have to remain
>> compatible? Then a lot of people say that, and suddenly Javascript is
>> required.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Are there any data sources that measure what browsers people are
>> using today and what percentage of people turn JS off or don't have it?
>> 
>>  Cliff ________________________________
>> 




From vtbludgeon at gmail.com  Mon Feb 26 11:35:02 2007
From: vtbludgeon at gmail.com (David Mintz)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:35:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] detecting Ajax calls
Message-ID: <721f1cc50702260835o17696892p1f1ad4992be45ff5@mail.gmail.com>

I am wondering what you guys are doing to detect whether your PHP script is
being called via AJAX or --- "regular."

I know Prototype sends a custom headers e.g.
[X-Prototype-Version] => 1.5.0 [X-Requested-With] => XMLHttpRequest

-- 
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

En Nueva York el tr?nsito de la belleza a la desolaci?n sucede siempre
expeditivamente, como si el principio universal de m?xima eficiencia hubiera
aconsejado la supresi?n de gradaciones intermedias.

  -- Antonio Mu?oz Molina, Ventanas de Manhattan
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From vtbludgeon at gmail.com  Mon Feb 26 11:45:12 2007
From: vtbludgeon at gmail.com (David Mintz)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:45:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] detecting Ajax calls
Message-ID: <721f1cc50702260845h2d2539e7kb958e048aabe42f4@mail.gmail.com>

I am wondering what you guys are doing to detect whether your PHP
script is being called via AJAX or --- "regular?" (Do we have a
retronym for that in this brave new Web 2.0 world?).

I know Prototype sends a custom headers, e.g.

        [X-Prototype-Version] => 1.5.0
        [X-Requested-With] => XMLHttpRequest

so looking for those is obviously one way.

I found a discussion somewhere where someone simply suggested adding
something like isAjax=1 as a GET parameter in your Ajax call's URL.
Seems to work.

Thanks.

-- 
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

En Nueva York el tr?nsito de la belleza a la desolaci?n sucede siempre
expeditivamente, como si el principio universal de m?xima eficiencia
hubiera aconsejado la supresi?n de gradaciones intermedias.

  -- Antonio Mu?oz Molina, Ventanas de Manhattan


From vtbludgeon at gmail.com  Mon Feb 26 11:46:04 2007
From: vtbludgeon at gmail.com (David Mintz)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:46:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: detecting Ajax calls
In-Reply-To: <721f1cc50702260835o17696892p1f1ad4992be45ff5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <721f1cc50702260835o17696892p1f1ad4992be45ff5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <721f1cc50702260846p4b3e48ddua206cbdfd1c7ef71@mail.gmail.com>

Damn it. Sorry for repeating myself -- the fingers slipped.

On 2/26/07, David Mintz <vtbludgeon at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am wondering what you guys are doing to detect whether your PHP script is
> being called via AJAX or --- "regular."

-- 
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Mon Feb 26 11:47:25 2007
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:47:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] detecting Ajax calls
In-Reply-To: <721f1cc50702260835o17696892p1f1ad4992be45ff5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <721f1cc50702260835o17696892p1f1ad4992be45ff5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C8ED5881-4E91-4F58-8C0E-99A0C207C808@beaffinitive.com>

>> I am wondering what you guys are doing to detect whether your PHP  
>> script is being called via AJAX or --- "regular."
>>
>> I know Prototype sends a custom headers e.g.
>> [X-Prototype-Version] => 1.5.0 [X-Requested-With] => XMLHttpRequest

I've been checking for
$_SERVER['HTTP_X_REQUESTED_WITH'] == 'XMLHttpRequest'

jQuery seems to send it as well.
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From ken at secdat.com  Mon Feb 26 11:50:52 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:50:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] detecting Ajax calls
In-Reply-To: <721f1cc50702260845h2d2539e7kb958e048aabe42f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <721f1cc50702260845h2d2539e7kb958e048aabe42f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45E30FEC.6040105@secdat.com>

David Mintz wrote:
> I am wondering what you guys are doing to detect whether your PHP
> script is being called via AJAX or --- "regular?" (Do we have a
> retronym for that in this brave new Web 2.0 world?).

FWIW, we're using a variant of the isAjax, passing different values to 
tell the framework to handle it in different ways.

For instance, one kind of AJAX call is a direct update of a single 
column in a single row of a table, with no response necessary, so this 
gets its own type of parameter.  The universal dispatcher catches it and 
processes it directly and exits w/o sending anything back.




-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com / www.andromeda-project.org
Office: 631-689-7200   Cell: 631-379-0010

::Think you may have a problem with programming? Ask yourself this 
::question: do you worry about how to throw away a garbage can?



From urb at e-government.com  Mon Feb 26 12:26:19 2007
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:26:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no
	progressive	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <002b01c759ba$2bbcefa0$8336cee0$@com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com> <45E2F1A0.4010601@secdat.com>
	<491198290702260708t50ae2df7nd3d93fe5f3af16a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<002b01c759ba$2bbcefa0$8336cee0$@com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070226122441.01225330@e-government.com>


>I usually use http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp 
>as a rough guide.  It shows 94% JavaScript on, 6% off for January 2007.

         Be a little careful generalizing this number as applied to 
shopping cards.
In many cases, JaveScript is off for people coming from behind corporate
firewalls and these are highly qualified purchasers.

Urb

Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
E-Government.com
800-204-9545




From lists at genoverly.net  Mon Feb 26 12:28:27 2007
From: lists at genoverly.net (michael)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:28:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <491198290702260708t50ae2df7nd3d93fe5f3af16a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com> <45E2F1A0.4010601@secdat.com>
	<491198290702260708t50ae2df7nd3d93fe5f3af16a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070226122827.6d37db70@dt.genoverly.com>

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:08:19 -0500
"Mark Withington" <mwithington at PLMresearch.com> wrote:

> I agree.  With absolutely no data to back this up, I bet any "serious"
> web user has JavaScript on and probably [relatively] up-to-date on
> their browser version. 

On the contrary.. "serious" web users have it turned off.  

Just because a lot of the other lemmings put on glittery outfits and
hurl themselves off the edge of the cliff, it doesn't mean we should
write into mailing lists and declare that everyone should.

java and her little dog 'script' are just as evil as flash.

-- 

michael


(this address does not accept public email)



From lists at silmail.com  Mon Feb 26 12:56:24 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:26:24 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <20070226122827.6d37db70@dt.genoverly.com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com> <45E2F1A0.4010601@secdat.com>
	<491198290702260708t50ae2df7nd3d93fe5f3af16a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070226122827.6d37db70@dt.genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702260956v4830c43eu4169891dbcfbe60c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

If we are writing howtos and documentations, we can avoid javascript, but
when doing coding for an earning, we need buyers, where the real money is..

Just tell me now a days how many of you will create a webpage which will
look like a standard howto documentation? With just  Hx, b, p, dl, ul tags
and text only ? UGH.. I dont even remember doing that at least once..
JavaScript and the enhancements it provides is good in certain occassions,
when validating a form on the client side, actually this is to help a
genuine visitor, to make sure that he does not submit the page, and our
serverside validation kicks him to say that a particular field he typed is
not in the exact syntax which we expected to be..

I been a PHP/XUL programmer for the past 3+ years.. and now cannot even
think of a weeny bit of a page or application without JavaScript.


-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
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From ps at sun-code.com  Mon Feb 26 13:08:11 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:08:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no
	progressivefall-back
In-Reply-To: <20070226122827.6d37db70@dt.genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <005b01c759d1$19e82670$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

Me, I tend to strongly push customers towards the latest common
standards that the general population at large is likely using and try
to avoid time-consuming infinitely backwards compatible constructions --
as I've done that type of development and because one ends up developing
to usage statistics that are likely already a year or more old, that by
the time your product hits actual consumer usage, there are no more or
far less consumers still meeting the old standard you just developed to
for nothing. 

An easy progressive fallback for those users with JavaScript turned off
would be a nice web page with an 800-number to use and a printable form
to order by regular mail (yikes!). 

I would posit that this is best to be a strict dollars and sense
business decision -- is it worth the time, money and permanent extra
complexity? -- not a matter of whether the programmatic ability is
there. If the customer has genuine concerns about handicapped users on
their site with very special browser needs, okay different story.  

If w3schools is showing 6% JavaScript turned off -- that may be biased
towards professional developers using streamlined browsers to visit
their site. Additionally, I would agree: How could one be and aggressive
contemporary developer and surf and develop with JavaScript turned off.
I don't see it. Personally, I'd rather sell, develop and use a totally
Flash-enabled site than get slogged with a task of building a site with
no JavaScript.

In all my gabbing with regular folk about what they do to block popups:
they use built in popup blockers, buy commercial software, live with
what their ISP provides -- I have never personally spoken to anyone who
actually reached into the browser settings and turned off JavaScript. 

Seriously, I think we present to the customer that in a toss up of the
type: Option A) do we spend more time on infinite backwards
compatibility or Option B) spend more time on security updates and
security re-tooling. I choose Option B. And would sell that hard to the
customer too.

Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code.com 
Web related services 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com













From ken at secdat.com  Mon Feb 26 13:13:45 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:13:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with
	no	progressivefall-back
In-Reply-To: <005b01c759d1$19e82670$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <005b01c759d1$19e82670$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <45E32359.9030300@secdat.com>

Peter Sawczynec wrote:
> An easy progressive fallback for those users with JavaScript turned off
> would be a nice web page with an 800-number to use and a printable form
> to order by regular mail (yikes!). 
>
>
>   

LOL!

>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>   


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com / www.andromeda-project.org
Office: 631-689-7200   Cell: 631-379-0010

::Think you may have a problem with programming? Ask yourself this 
::question: do you worry about how to throw away a garbage can?



From ps at sun-code.com  Mon Feb 26 13:24:56 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:24:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with
	noprogressivefall-back
In-Reply-To: <005b01c759d1$19e82670$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <005c01c759d3$70a2afb0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

And further to this type of topic. Remember, years ago when Wired
Magazine re-built their website to 
completely degrade gracefully for any browser using infinitely complex
CSS and valid XHTML. 
They got nuthin' for that. And, I mean, nuthin'. 

On the other hand: google maps, yahoo flickr, nickelodeon, cnn, youtube,
(the list is endless) 
of site projects that pushed the envelope and pulled the consumer along
for the ride...

...all mega hits.

Looking ahead, taking chances, leading the customer and the consumer.
That is where it is at.


Peter





-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Peter Sawczynec
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 1:08 PM
To: 'NYPHP Talk'
Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with
noprogressivefall-back


Me, I tend to strongly push customers towards the latest common
standards that the general population at large is likely using and try
to avoid time-consuming infinitely backwards compatible constructions --
as I've done that type of development and because one ends up developing
to usage statistics that are likely already a year or more old, that by
the time your product hits actual consumer usage, there are no more or
far less consumers still meeting the old standard you just developed to
for nothing. 

An easy progressive fallback for those users with JavaScript turned off
would be a nice web page with an 800-number to use and a printable form
to order by regular mail (yikes!). 

I would posit that this is best to be a strict dollars and sense
business decision -- is it worth the time, money and permanent extra
complexity? -- not a matter of whether the programmatic ability is
there. If the customer has genuine concerns about handicapped users on
their site with very special browser needs, okay different story.  

If w3schools is showing 6% JavaScript turned off -- that may be biased
towards professional developers using streamlined browsers to visit
their site. Additionally, I would agree: How could one be and aggressive
contemporary developer and surf and develop with JavaScript turned off.
I don't see it. Personally, I'd rather sell, develop and use a totally
Flash-enabled site than get slogged with a task of building a site with
no JavaScript.

In all my gabbing with regular folk about what they do to block popups:
they use built in popup blockers, buy commercial software, live with
what their ISP provides -- I have never personally spoken to anyone who
actually reached into the browser settings and turned off JavaScript. 

Seriously, I think we present to the customer that in a toss up of the
type: Option A) do we spend more time on infinite backwards
compatibility or Option B) spend more time on security updates and
security re-tooling. I choose Option B. And would sell that hard to the
customer too.

Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code.com 
Web related services 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com











_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From tedd at sperling.com  Mon Feb 26 13:30:31 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:30:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <p0624080ac208c4a76535@[192.168.1.102]>

At 9:26 AM -0500 2/26/07, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if 
>JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick 
>shopping cart that seems great, but I think the lack of progressive 
>fallback is a show stopper.
>
>Whatever happened to building a robust PHP application and only then 
>layering on the client-side enhancements? To me this lack of 
>progressive fall-back is just laziness, arrogance, or the victim of 
>the usual time pressures. This isn't an opinionated group - right?! 
>So I curious to here what others think.
>
>Are there any data sources that measure what browsers people are 
>using today and what percentage of people turn JS off or don't have 
>it?
>
>Cliff

Cliff:

I don't like the term "fall-back" because it infers that this is 
something we should consider adding instead of it being the first 
thing we should do with enhancement being added later.

Currently, programming an application for the net is like drawing a 
path through a mine field for people with drastically different size 
feet. Some will make it and others won't -- regardless of what you 
do. But, your job is to guide as many through as possible.

I very much like the concept of progressive enhancement and I believe 
that much of what we can do can have a basic foundation to accomplish 
the same thing without the fluff.

The problem I see, which is not popular with the progressive 
enhancement movement, is that the sometimes the fluff is the 
application. There are reasons why we as developers (well, most of 
us) left the "command line" interface and went GUI -- and those 
reasons include ease of use for the end-user.

I think the real question here -- is what is the purpose of the 
service we're providing?

If the purpose is to provide information, then no doubt, we should 
provide the basic foundation first and then add fluff.

On the other hand, realize that Adobe is not producing Photoshop for 
the blind. So like-applications should be exempt for blind access 
considerations. But, blind people do shop on-line and thus things 
like shopping carts should be made basic with progressive 
enhancements.

However, part of the decision that sighted people use to make their 
purchases is visual. So, in this case providing fluff is really part 
of the essentials.

So, the decision to provide basic access and progressive enhancement 
is really based upon what service you're providing.

On top of those considerations, we still have to deal with the 
real-world differences between browsers. I've found myself several 
times providing a basic foundation and having even that fail between 
browsers, let alone trying to develop accommodative progressive 
enhancements across different platforms well. It's far more 
complicated than a simple "choice" to provide basic access, 
progressive enhancement, or both.

To me, it's doing the best I can with the time and money I have. As 
to how to do it better, I leave that to smarter minds than mine.

Cheers,

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From rolan at omnistep.com  Mon Feb 26 13:37:11 2007
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:37:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no
	progressivefall-back
In-Reply-To: <45E32359.9030300@secdat.com>
References: <005b01c759d1$19e82670$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
	<45E32359.9030300@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <45E328D7.1080000@omnistep.com>

Also, I would recommend a phone number with plenty of digits 1, 2, and 
3.  For THOSE types of people, the "8-0-0" is difficult to call because 
the rotary dial takes a long time to return all the way back from the 
zero's.

~Rolan

Kenneth Downs wrote:
> Peter Sawczynec wrote:
>> An easy progressive fallback for those users with JavaScript turned off
>> would be a nice web page with an 800-number to use and a printable form
>> to order by regular mail (yikes!).
>>
>>   
>
> LOL!
>


From ps at sun-code.com  Mon Feb 26 13:50:17 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:50:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with
	noprogressivefall-back
In-Reply-To: <45E328D7.1080000@omnistep.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c759d6$fb464bb0$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

Oh, to recall vintage days with a rueful smile, when maximum lean and
mean internet surfing demanded using HTTP HEAD commands from the command
prompt. 

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Rolan Yang
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 1:37 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with
noprogressivefall-back


Also, I would recommend a phone number with plenty of digits 1, 2, and 
3.  For THOSE types of people, the "8-0-0" is difficult to call because 
the rotary dial takes a long time to return all the way back from the 
zero's.

~Rolan

Kenneth Downs wrote:
> Peter Sawczynec wrote:
>> An easy progressive fallback for those users with JavaScript turned
off
>> would be a nice web page with an 800-number to use and a printable
form
>> to order by regular mail (yikes!).
>>
>>   
>
> LOL!
>
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From robynover at gmail.com  Mon Feb 26 15:45:37 2007
From: robynover at gmail.com (Robyn Overstreet)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:45:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] punctuation in From: header
Message-ID: <dc1507df0702261245q240ed9dds692dc850b42b5836@mail.gmail.com>

There was a thread about this a while back, and I'm trying to find out
some more information. Sending email (with PEAR) fails when there is
punctuation in the header. For example, in the application I'm working
on, the name in the From field may need to be "A. Beeccee Assoc.,
Inc." yet strings with periods, commas, etc cause sending to fail.

Using double quotes in PHP doesn't seem to make a difference, but
quoting in the string itself *does* work for sending punctuation.
However, the quotation marks show up in the From name field, which I'd
like to avoid if possible.

Lots of googling and trial and error, and I can't seem to figure out
how to escape punctuation ...

R


From kenneth at ylayali.net  Mon Feb 26 16:16:58 2007
From: kenneth at ylayali.net (Kenneth Dombrowski)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:16:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] punctuation in From: header
In-Reply-To: <dc1507df0702261245q240ed9dds692dc850b42b5836@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc1507df0702261245q240ed9dds692dc850b42b5836@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070226211658.GC5106@ylayali.net>

Hi Robyn, 

On 07-02-26 15:45 -0500, Robyn Overstreet wrote:
> 
> Using double quotes in PHP doesn't seem to make a difference, but
> quoting in the string itself *does* work for sending punctuation.
> However, the quotation marks show up in the From name field, which I'd
> like to avoid if possible.
> 

I'm pretty sure the quotes are required by the rfc (ex. from rfc2822): 

A.1.2. Different types of mailboxes

   This message includes multiple addresses in the destination fields
   and also uses several different forms of addresses.

        ----
        From: "Joe Q. Public" <john.q.public at example.com>
        To: Mary Smith <mary at x.test>, jdoe at example.org, Who? <one at y.test>
        Cc: <boss at nil.test>, "Giant; \"Big\" Box" <sysservices at example.net>
        Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:52:37 +0200
        Message-ID: <5678.21-Nov-1997 at example.com>

        Hi everyone.
        ----

   Note that the display names for Joe Q. Public and Giant; "Big" Box
   needed to be enclosed in double-quotes because the former contains
   the period and the latter contains both semicolon and double-quote
   characters (the double-quote characters appearing as quoted-pair
   construct).  Conversely, the display name for Who? could appear
   without them because the question mark is legal in an atom.  Notice
   also that jdoe at example.org and boss at nil.test have no display names
   associated with them at all, and jdoe at example.org uses the simpler
   address form without the angle brackets.




From robynover at gmail.com  Mon Feb 26 16:21:05 2007
From: robynover at gmail.com (Robyn Overstreet)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:21:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] punctuation in From: header
In-Reply-To: <20070226211658.GC5106@ylayali.net>
References: <dc1507df0702261245q240ed9dds692dc850b42b5836@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070226211658.GC5106@ylayali.net>
Message-ID: <dc1507df0702261321s250d7a56qdbc1e201dabb873c@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you. You're right. Quotes are required. And they do show up in
some mail programs (like gmail when you view the message page as
opposed to the list of messages) but generally they don't  show up.

Robyn

On 2/26/07, Kenneth Dombrowski <kenneth at ylayali.net> wrote:
> Hi Robyn,
>
> On 07-02-26 15:45 -0500, Robyn Overstreet wrote:
> >
> > Using double quotes in PHP doesn't seem to make a difference, but
> > quoting in the string itself *does* work for sending punctuation.
> > However, the quotation marks show up in the From name field, which I'd
> > like to avoid if possible.
> >
>
> I'm pretty sure the quotes are required by the rfc (ex. from rfc2822):
>
> A.1.2. Different types of mailboxes
>
>    This message includes multiple addresses in the destination fields
>    and also uses several different forms of addresses.
>
>         ----
>         From: "Joe Q. Public" <john.q.public at example.com>
>         To: Mary Smith <mary at x.test>, jdoe at example.org, Who? <one at y.test>
>         Cc: <boss at nil.test>, "Giant; \"Big\" Box" <sysservices at example.net>
>         Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:52:37 +0200
>         Message-ID: <5678.21-Nov-1997 at example.com>
>
>         Hi everyone.
>         ----
>
>    Note that the display names for Joe Q. Public and Giant; "Big" Box
>    needed to be enclosed in double-quotes because the former contains
>    the period and the latter contains both semicolon and double-quote
>    characters (the double-quote characters appearing as quoted-pair
>    construct).  Conversely, the display name for Who? could appear
>    without them because the question mark is legal in an atom.  Notice
>    also that jdoe at example.org and boss at nil.test have no display names
>    associated with them at all, and jdoe at example.org uses the simpler
>    address form without the angle brackets.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Feb 26 17:12:12 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:12:12 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <28914-59225@sneakemail.com>

Cliff Hirsch cliff-at-pinestream.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

> I?m seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if 
> JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I?m looking at purchasing a slick 
> shopping cart that seems great, but I think the lack of progressive 
> fallback is a show stopper.
>
> Whatever happened to building a robust PHP application and only then 
> layering on the client-side enhancements? To me this lack of 
> progressive fall-back is just laziness, arrogance, or the victim of 
> the usual time pressures. This isn?t an opinionated group ? right?! So 
> I curious to here what others think.
>
> Are there any data sources that measure what browsers people are using 
> today and what percentage of people turn JS off or don?t have it?
>
> Cliff

Every time my CSS-based competitive web stuff gets compared to other 
offerings, my first response is to show the client what happens with js 
turned off. EVERY SINGLE TIME SO FAR that has been all I needed to do to 
make my case.

A web app that stupid is a showstopper once exposed. I say leave let 
them keep making pretty designs that don't work. It's where I live.


-=john andrews
SEO & competitive webmaster blogging at www.johnon.com





From chsnyder at gmail.com  Mon Feb 26 18:28:17 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:28:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690702261528j46c8bb50i44d26c7fd41cab84@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/26/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript
> is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick shopping cart that
> seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback is a show stopper.

I'm a big fan of the "unobtrusive" approach, where you build
interfaces in Plain Old HTML + CSS and then use wicked DOM mojo to
convert them into rich applications on the client. If Javascript isn't
available, everything still works but with a lot more clicking.

As an example, to add an inline audio player on a page, I'll send this
to the browser:

<a href="/path/to/some.mp3" class="audioplayer">Click here to play the audio</a>

A window.onload event calls a javascript method that gets all <a>
elements with class="audioplayer", and replaces them with a
flash-based audio player, using the href attribute as the source of
the audio.

Without javascript and flash, you get a dumb link. With those evil
twins, you get a rich multimedia experience. As a bonus, the dumb link
is (in theory) accessible to screen readers, which seems especially
important for this particular example.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Feb 26 19:29:03 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 19:29:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702261528j46c8bb50i44d26c7fd41cab84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C208E57F.F41%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 2/26/07 6:28 PM, "csnyder" <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2/26/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript
>> is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick shopping cart that
>> seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback is a show stopper.
> 
> I'm a big fan of the "unobtrusive" approach, where you build
> interfaces in Plain Old HTML + CSS and then use wicked DOM mojo to
> convert them into rich applications on the client. If Javascript isn't
> available, everything still works but with a lot more clicking.
> 
> As an example, to add an inline audio player on a page, I'll send this
> to the browser:
> 
> <a href="/path/to/some.mp3" class="audioplayer">Click here to play the
> audio</a>
> 
> A window.onload event calls a javascript method that gets all <a>
> elements with class="audioplayer", and replaces them with a
> flash-based audio player, using the href attribute as the source of
> the audio.
> 
> Without javascript and flash, you get a dumb link. With those evil
> twins, you get a rich multimedia experience. As a bonus, the dumb link
> is (in theory) accessible to screen readers, which seems especially
> important for this particular example.

So far...a great discussion. See, I knew nobody had a strong opinion. In
theory, I am a fan of the progressive enhancement strategy. Reality is what
bits.

Example:
Do I buy X-Cart and add "Web 2.0" enhancements.
Or do I buy CS-Cart, a "next-genish" X-Cart, and make fallback work.
It's never simple.

BTW, DOM mojo? Yet another framework? I've heard of moca, but mojo? Must be
a New York thing. "Wicked"? I though only us Bostonians said that.

PSBTW -- for Chris, I have added my comment at the bottom!




From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Feb 26 21:17:06 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:17:06 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <C208E57F.F41%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C208E57F.F41%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <24432-84500@sneakemail.com>

Cliff Hirsch cliff-at-pinestream.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>On 2/26/07 6:28 PM, "csnyder" <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>On 2/26/07, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>> I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript
>>>is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick shopping cart that
>>>seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback is a show stopper.
>>>      
>>>
>>I'm a big fan of the "unobtrusive" approach, where you build
>>interfaces in Plain Old HTML + CSS and then use wicked DOM mojo to
>>convert them into rich applications on the client. If Javascript isn't
>>available, everything still works but with a lot more clicking.
>>
>>As an example, to add an inline audio player on a page, I'll send this
>>to the browser:
>>
>><a href="/path/to/some.mp3" class="audioplayer">Click here to play the
>>audio</a>
>>
>>A window.onload event calls a javascript method that gets all <a>
>>elements with class="audioplayer", and replaces them with a
>>flash-based audio player, using the href attribute as the source of
>>the audio.
>>
>>Without javascript and flash, you get a dumb link. With those evil
>>twins, you get a rich multimedia experience. As a bonus, the dumb link
>>is (in theory) accessible to screen readers, which seems especially
>>important for this particular example.
>>    
>>
>
>So far...a great discussion. See, I knew nobody had a strong opinion. In
>theory, I am a fan of the progressive enhancement strategy. Reality is what
>bits.
>
>Example:
>Do I buy X-Cart and add "Web 2.0" enhancements.
>Or do I buy CS-Cart, a "next-genish" X-Cart, and make fallback work.
>It's never simple.
>
>BTW, DOM mojo? Yet another framework? I've heard of moca, but mojo? Must be
>a New York thing. "Wicked"? I though only us Bostonians said that.
>
>PSBTW -- for Chris, I have added my comment at the bottom!
>
>  
>
Why would someone develop a "next-gen" x-cart that satisfy x-cart users? 
That's like a parallel gen, not a next gen. A next gen is supposed to be 
better.

Probably best not to pursue the origins of the term mojo any further.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From shiflett at php.net  Mon Feb 26 21:26:41 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:26:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702261528j46c8bb50i44d26c7fd41cab84@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<b76252690702261528j46c8bb50i44d26c7fd41cab84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45E396E1.30605@php.net>

Chris Snyder wrote:
> I'm a big fan of the "unobtrusive" approach, where you build
> interfaces in Plain Old HTML + CSS and then use wicked DOM
> mojo to convert them into rich applications on the client. If
> Javascript isn't available, everything still works but with a
> lot more clicking.

This is exactly the approach I like to take, but it can still be tricky.
(For me anyway - my interface fu is weak.)

What's the best-of-breed solution for changing a regular form submission
button to initiate an Ajax call instead of submitting the form? I've got
a hacky solution that involves rewriting the button, adding an
onsubmit() action, and trying to keep it from submitting the form in IE,
but it feels like there must be a more elegant solution.

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From lists at silmail.com  Mon Feb 26 21:48:54 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:18:54 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Wanted to know opinions about Open Portal Management
	systems in PHP and MySQL
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702261848l39c37a3cg63bc0b57ddaafa1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

I would like to see the views of those who have handled the available open
portal management systems.

I am currently assessing a general script to manage a portal related to our
state, with a blog, forum,
polls, news, articles and journals. Should be easy to change the design,
like should be template driven.

A near example site is http://www.tvmlive.com

-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
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From lk613m at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 26 23:15:45 2007
From: lk613m at yahoo.com (LK)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:15:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Chat thru Ajax
Message-ID: <17313.36292.qm@web53306.mail.yahoo.com>

Two people on separate PCs are sending instant messages to each other through Ajax on a common server. The sender posts a message and it gets stored in the database. How does the receiver get that message on the other machine? I can envision a polling mechanism whereby the receiver's client periodically polls the database through Ajax to see if a new message is there. But how does one do it through interrupts, without polling? Any ideas appreciated.
 
Leo


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling? 
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
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From shiflett at php.net  Tue Feb 27 00:35:56 2007
From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:35:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Chat thru Ajax
In-Reply-To: <17313.36292.qm@web53306.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <17313.36292.qm@web53306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45E3C33C.9050504@php.net>

LK wrote:
> Two people on separate PCs are sending instant messages to each
> other through Ajax on a common server. The sender posts a message
> and it gets stored in the database. How does the receiver get
> that message on the other machine?

Use persistent connections and chunked responses. It's a technique now
being described as Comet, partly to play on the Ajax theme.

I give the elevator description (yes, I just made that up) at the end of
this blog post:

http://shiflett.org/archive/232

Chris

-- 
Chris Shiflett
http://shiflett.org/


From lists at genoverly.net  Tue Feb 27 08:32:01 2007
From: lists at genoverly.net (michael)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:32:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speaking of IDE's
Message-ID: <20070227083201.3ac20ae8@dt.genoverly.com>

http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/02/26/delphi_php/

-- 

michael


(this address does not accept public email)



From ben at projectskyline.com  Tue Feb 27 08:45:40 2007
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline))
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:45:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] SourceGuardian 7 Sale and Questions
References: <00a101c756da$29e96790$6a01a8c0@gamebox>
	<45DE2EC7.5020805@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c75a75$91b80c20$6a01a8c0@gamebox>

Hey,

Just wanted to let ya'll know I went w/ioncube..and I love it so far.

Its super easy to use (windows-gui) and works really well.

Currently, there is nothing negative to say about the software package.

- Ben

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Cech" <dcech at phpwerx.net>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] SourceGuardian 7 Sale and Questions


> Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) wrote:
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I just recieved an email w/a promotion/sale for the SourceGuardian 
>> Encoder.
>>
>> I'd been looking into this for a bit and wanted to know if anyone could 
>> provide feedback on it. I have a lot of code I'd like to keep under wraps
>> when distributing applications to shared hosts..and even releases some 
>> parts of code 'open' and others 'closed'.
>>
>> I'm looking for comments regarding setup on linux boxes (the encoded 
>> files), running the GUI under windows..as that is my setup.
>> Also, for shared hosting and such..how is the setup..does it work well 
>> w/no php.ini edits..as I believe you load the module at run time..?
>>
>> Anyways...any feedback is helpful...
>>
>> http://www.sourceguardian.com/purchase/index.php
>
> I haven't used source guardian, but reading their documentation it seems
> quite similar to the Ioncube Loader, which we have had great success with.
>
> If you're considering runtime loading I did notice that their example on
> this page:
>
> http://sourceguardian.com/products/php_encoder.htm
>
> shows the encoded file content being passed to the sg_load function as a
> string.  To my thinking this seems like it might be somewhat slow and
> memory intensive for files of any size, as the complete encoded string
> must be loaded into memory before it is passed to the extension.
>
> All in all, I'd very carefully weigh the pros and cons between SG and
> IONCube before committing to either.
>
> I can't comment on Zend Guard, which seems to be the other big player in
> this market, except to say that their pricing structure makes for a
> tough comparison to ioncube and SG.
>
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 



From ps at sun-code.com  Tue Feb 27 09:11:04 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:11:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Daylight Savings Time in U.S. Coming Up Very Soon
Message-ID: <001701c75a79$21428a20$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

The government has permanently changed the start and end dates of
Daylight Savings Time (D.S.T.) 
for the entire U.S. to provide more "daylight" hours for productivity
and commerce.
 
The length of DST has been increased: a) starting two weeks earlier and
b) ending one week later. 
 
For reference:
 
NEW Daylight Savings Time Start/End Dates (beginning in 2007, this year,
now) 
- Start on 2nd Sunday in March -- March 11, 2007 
- End on 1st Sunday in November -- November 4, 2007
 
OLD Daylight Savings Time Start/End Dates  
- Started on 1st Sunday in April  
- Ended on the last Sunday of October  
 
As far as I can research it, the PHP built-in date() functions and the
special date("I") 
used to identify D.S.T. will not be accurate to match this recent change
and 
programmers will need to accommodate this D.S.T. change.
 
Do you know otherwise? And what are your plans? 
 
Don't forget to review your date code.
 
Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code.com 
Web related services 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com
 
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From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Tue Feb 27 10:01:10 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:01:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speaking of IDE's
In-Reply-To: <20070227083201.3ac20ae8@dt.genoverly.com>
References: <20070227083201.3ac20ae8@dt.genoverly.com>
Message-ID: <EB27AAEC-5957-4A13-86FC-005366AA1385@jonbaer.com>

Oh no ... it's Visual Basic for PHP, OO components everywhere ;-)

http://www.codegear.com/Portals/0/images/PHPscreenshot1_newLG.gif
http://www.codegear.com/Portals/0/images/PHPscreenshot2_newLG.gif

- Jon

On Feb 27, 2007, at 8:32 AM, michael wrote:

> http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/02/26/delphi_php/
>
> -- 
>
> michael
>
>
> (this address does not accept public email)
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com  Tue Feb 27 10:09:01 2007
From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:09:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] speaking of IDE's
References: <20070227083201.3ac20ae8@dt.genoverly.com>
	<EB27AAEC-5957-4A13-86FC-005366AA1385@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <001301c75a81$38852780$6401a8c0@ced>


http://www.eclipse.org/

Maybe I prefer it cause I like java?
=D

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Baer" <jonbaer at jonbaer.com>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] speaking of IDE's


> Oh no ... it's Visual Basic for PHP, OO components everywhere ;-)
> 
> http://www.codegear.com/Portals/0/images/PHPscreenshot1_newLG.gif
> http://www.codegear.com/Portals/0/images/PHPscreenshot2_newLG.gif
> 
> - Jon
> 
> On Feb 27, 2007, at 8:32 AM, michael wrote:
> 
> > http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/02/26/delphi_php/
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > michael
> >
> >
> > (this address does not accept public email)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Tue Feb 27 10:11:42 2007
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:11:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Daylight Savings Time in U.S. Coming Up Very Soon
In-Reply-To: <001701c75a79$21428a20$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <001701c75a79$21428a20$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <68CEE18E-9F95-4D8A-976B-78F2D7428332@jonbaer.com>

While not really a definitive answer + a bit old, here is an  
interesting recap on this type of subject from a Zend weekly (sorry  
kinda long but informative) ...

-snip-
TLK: The date wars

By far the longest thread of the week was started by Stas Malyshev,  
who was appalled to discover that, following an upgrade to PHP_5_1,  
all the machines in Zend's Israel office returned UTC dates and spat  
out warnings when PHP's date() was called. He guessed that the built- 
in library in the new ext/date didn't recognize his timezone, and  
went on to suggest that using a library with an internal fixed  
timezone list other than that used by the operating system was 'an  
extremely unfortunate choice'. He reasoned that any qualified  
sysadmin knows how to set up the timezone on the user's operating  
system, but he'd no idea how to make PHP recognize his timezone now.  
Was there any way to fix that? If so, it should be explicitly stated  
in the manual; if not, it needed to be fixed as soon as possible.

Derick Rethans defended his baby, advising Stas that he should use  
the date.timezone setting in his php.ini and that this would've been  
evident had Stas been running under E_STRICT. However, if the name  
really wasn't being recognized, the team could add it to the  
database... He disagreed that the timezone list should match that of  
the OS, pointing out that an application relying on timezones has  
zero portability that way. Stas retorted that the date.timezone  
setting was the part complaining that it didn't know his timezone  
(IDT). He saw a problem in Derick's statement that the team could add  
it to the database, and wondered how many others out there hadn't  
been added yet? 'So we will be fixing it for years and still get it  
not working in some places - while before the "improvement" it  
worked!' He couldn't see how Derick ever expected to have the full  
timezone list, given that both Unix and Windows allow their timezone  
databases to be extended and timezone rules to be changed. Even if  
Derick added the name there, there was no guarantee that the rules  
the library uses would match the rules the rest of the OS uses. How  
could he be certain that PHP applications wouldn't change from DST to  
standard time a week earlier than the rest of the applications on a  
given box? As for portability, Stas found it more seriously annoying  
when the application running on his own platform suddenly stopped  
working and couldn't be fixed without patching C code.

Derick asserted that a timezone abbreviation should never be used in  
the first place; the real name for Stas' timezone is ' Asia/ 
Tel_Aviv', and that won't change, whereas IDT is an arbitrary  
description of Israel's local time in combination with Daylight  
Savings Time. His timezone database is updated from the Olson tz  
database, which is also used by the GNU C Library, and therefore all  
open source operating systems. If the OS didn't use that database, it  
would be the distribution that was incorrect and not PHP. The problem  
with OS services is that the timezone abbreviations they use are not  
unique, and don't offer a solid way of handling complex work. Having  
to set date.timezone was the only penalty for having superior  
timezone handling in PHP, and Derick felt that this was negligible;  
nobody needs to change any C code in order to pick the correct  
timezone as a setting. However, if you didn't set the timezone in any  
of the three ways open to you via PHP, the fallback - failing a  
'magical' guess from those operating systems that support it - would  
be UTC.

Stas argued that breaking working applications was a Bad Thing -  
timezone abbreviations given by the system had been understood by PHP  
until now, and he didn't see why that should suddenly stop being the  
case. Besides, if you didn't use the system's rules you would have  
serious problems keeping them up to date - wouldn't he need to  
reinstall PHP to pick up Derick's timezone database fixes? As for  
now, PHP was totally crippled, since he couldn't use date() unless he  
somehow guessed what the new library wanted from him. What would  
happen when he wanted to install his application on a user's system?  
The library itself doesn't offer any assistance, it simply refuses to  
work until you find the correct name for the timezone, whereas before  
it 'just worked', the same as all the other applications on his box.  
Why should PHP need special handling to do that? And how had Derick  
arrived at the setting he needed, where was that documented? How  
would he find out what his mythical client needed to use? Stas wrote  
that he didn't have a problem with date() gaining additional  
capabilities - he just didn't see why this should be at the cost of  
making previously working code require additional configuration which  
couldn't possibly be automated, given that the configuration value  
doesn't exist anywhere in the system settings. Wasn't there a way to  
use the old, working version of date() so that - without anything  
being set manually - it would work as it did under PHP 4?

Derick explained that the 'magic guess' works in many cases, just not  
in the case of IDT. He didn't want to see any of the code relying on  
the system settings, but agreed that the list of available settings  
should be documented in the near future. Ilia Alshanetsky backed  
Derick, saying that 'Asia/Tel_Aviv' was the standard name for Stas'  
timezone across most systems, whereas he'd just run some tests and  
found that neither Linux, FreeBSD nor Solaris understood 'IDT'. The  
way Derick had implemented the date library ensured a constant,  
unchanging list of available timezones. This wasn't the case when  
system settings were relied upon.

Stas continued to argue his corner at some length, suggesting that  
there could at least be a function named system_date() which would  
work the same way the old date() function used to work. He wanted to  
work with the system's settings, and suspected that the majority of  
the use cases for date() would be happy with that behaviour. Zeev  
Suraski agreed with Stas, saying that he hadn't seen a single good  
justification yet for the fact that a working application suddenly  
stopped working following an upgrade. The code in question didn't  
have a hard-coded timezone abbreviation, it simply used a system  
setting, and Zeev didn't think this was likely to be an approach  
unique to Zend's in-house developers. He ended soberly, 'The fact  
that date() now tries to be intelligent about it but fail is a real  
problem.'

By now Derick was also coming under attack from Pierre-Alain Joye  
over having ext/date as part of the core in the first place, and  
threw out a plea for an end to the 'bickering'. He wrote that he'd  
already spoken with the documentation team about how to document the  
timezones PHP now supports, and asked for anyone with any ideas about  
how to make things better to step forward. He went on to say that the  
reason IDT isn't in his timezone abbreviations list is that the  
legacy code behind strtotime() already uses IST for Indian Standard  
Time, and not for Israel Standard Time; allowing IST (and therefore  
IDT) for Israel would create conflict here.

Lukas Smith summarized the wider debate, saying that keeping both  
versions of the date() implementation might ease the short-term pain  
but would lead to a waste of development resources, and it was  
inevitable that PHP users would eventually be forced to adapt to the  
new solution. The real question was when 'eventually' should be?  
'Should there be an interim period where we keep both implementations?'

Meanwhile, Edin Kadribasic backed Pierre's chief argument about  
keeping the date extension in PECL 'for all the fancy stuff' and  
retaining the old date implementation in the core; Ron Korving popped  
his head above the parapet long enough to note that changing the  
approach now could postpone PHP 5.1's release date; and Stas got into  
a fight with Lukas over the meaning of 'portable'. So I asked a  
stupid question; why isn't there a default setting that's set by the  
system date() data?

Stas responded first, saying that if that were the case he'd be the  
first to applaud the work done on ext/date, but he understood Derick  
to have said it wasn't possible. Derick replied that actually this is  
exactly what he was trying to achieve; it's just that the fallback  
abbreviations (IDT) haven't all been linked to their respective  
timezone identifiers yet (Asia/Tel_Aviv). He went on to say that he  
now had a patch that will allow the timezone guessing code to check  
against the GMT offset as well as the abbreviation, and was looking  
into ways of creating the database for that. Stas raised the unlikely  
spectre of two timezones sharing the same abbreviation and current  
GMT offset but different rules, but you could see he was tiring. I  
put in a plea for a more locale-aware E_STRICT message offering the  
precise string to put into the php.ini, but Derick explained (off- 
list) that this wouldn't be possible to implement in the way I  
envisioned, due to the fact that some timezone areas have multiple  
names.

Rasmus Lerdorf echoed Lukas' earlier concern; should we take the BC  
hit now, and have clean and consistent date/time handling, or should  
we keep BC, hold up the 5.1 release for a couple of weeks, and  
support two date/time systems forever? His personal inclination was  
towards keeping BC, but he felt there was a lot to be said for not  
having two different implementations. Perhaps everyone who argued so  
strongly over the issue should come on board to help with testing  
now, and help make the new implementation back compatible.

Andi Gutmans replied that he'd only agreed to have ext/date in PHP  
5.1 because Derick had promised it wouldn't break BC. As this  
obviously wasn't the case, he hoped to see the ability to get back  
the old behaviour, even if that had to be via an .ini setting. Wez  
backed him, saying that date() in 5.1 should default to the old code  
and have a toggle for the new implementation. There should also be a  
deprecation notice to warn users about the move planned for PHP 6...  
Andi agreed and asked Derick to return the support for the old  
functionality and create an .ini option, saying that he didn't  
believe 5.1 could be released in its current state. Derick argued  
that the code under discussion wasn't the code Andi was referring to,  
which is still disabled, and Jani Taskinen pointed out that this  
wasn't a bug fix release and users didn't have to upgrade to it. Wez  
argued that 'to completely replace the default implementation of a  
core function... is quite a risk', and that the PHP project is big  
enough now to have a responsibility to its users. Whether PHP 5.1 was  
intended to be a bug fix release or not was irrelevant; he called for  
a solid, reliable approach to software development, and espoused the  
Solaris team's approach (of having two sets of APIs). Andi backed him  
all the way over this.

Back to the topic in hand, Moshe Doron raised the subject of non- 
rules; 'Here in Israel, there is stupid habit to change the DST range  
almost each year. Should I expect that today's date() function will  
give me the wrong date next year?' If so, he reasoned, it would  
constitute a fatal BC break for Israeli users. Andi clarified this: a  
parliamentary decision is taken with regard to daylight savings time  
each year, and Israeli sysadmins generally have an automated way of  
getting the updated timezone file from a central distribution server  
and dropping it into the system. Israel probably isn't the only  
country with a dynamically changing database, and if Derick's  
implementation couldn't support that, the old API would have to be  
supported. However, Derick had done his homework, and broke the news  
that a permanent daylight savings rule was created for Israel this  
year. Brazil was the only other country he knew of in that situation.  
His solution was to create a PECL extension incorporating an updated  
timezone database, which would be used by the core functions when  
installed. Re-introducing the old API would mean re-introducing  
around 20 known bugs into PHP; the whole reason for the new API was  
that the old one was broken. Wez argued that having 20 known bugs was  
better than having an unknown quantity of unknown bugs, and asked if  
Derick could honestly guarantee that there wouldn't be a BC breakage  
by the time of release? Derick replied that there wasn't any BC  
breakage if people had the .ini directive set correctly anyway, but  
that the guessing mechanism should cover the majority of cases -  
nobody could guarantee a 100% success rate.

Short version: Timezone guessing is (theoretically) correct in most  
cases now, and there will be a PECL extension to cope with Brasilian  
timezone updates etc.
-snip-


From ps at sun-code.com  Tue Feb 27 11:44:55 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:44:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Daylight Savings Time in U.S. Coming Up Very
	Soon
In-Reply-To: <68CEE18E-9F95-4D8A-976B-78F2D7428332@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c75a8e$a2a70860$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

This is an excellent lucid recap. Thank you. 

So my take away is that PHP date() et al. is fairly adept at handling
time zones as based upon a relatively uniform database of
internationally-recognized time zone names, but that D.S.T. as a
changeable entity is not handled. So it appears to me that at this time
one must reach into one's code and put in a fix for the shortly upcoming
new non-standard D.S.T. associated to the several time zones in the U.S.
and that PHP is at this time not prepared to handle this change until it
is added into the core functions at a later date and that such new
D.S.T. update is not currently incorporated in an version of PHP 5.x

Thanks again, 

Peter




-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Jon Baer
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:12 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [nycphp-talk] New Daylight Savings Time in
U.S. Coming Up Very Soon


While not really a definitive answer + a bit old, here is an  
interesting recap on this type of subject from a Zend weekly (sorry  
kinda long but informative) ...

-snip-
TLK: The date wars

By far the longest thread of the week was started by Stas Malyshev,  
who was appalled to discover that, following an upgrade to PHP_5_1,  
all the machines in Zend's Israel office returned UTC dates and spat  
out warnings when PHP's date() was called. He guessed that the built- 
in library in the new ext/date didn't recognize his timezone, and  
went on to suggest that using a library with an internal fixed  
timezone list other than that used by the operating system was 'an  
extremely unfortunate choice'. He reasoned that any qualified  
sysadmin knows how to set up the timezone on the user's operating  
system, but he'd no idea how to make PHP recognize his timezone now.  
Was there any way to fix that? If so, it should be explicitly stated  
in the manual; if not, it needed to be fixed as soon as possible.

Derick Rethans defended his baby, advising Stas that he should use  
the date.timezone setting in his php.ini and that this would've been  
evident had Stas been running under E_STRICT. However, if the name  
really wasn't being recognized, the team could add it to the  
database... He disagreed that the timezone list should match that of  
the OS, pointing out that an application relying on timezones has  
zero portability that way. Stas retorted that the date.timezone  
setting was the part complaining that it didn't know his timezone  
(IDT). He saw a problem in Derick's statement that the team could add  
it to the database, and wondered how many others out there hadn't  
been added yet? 'So we will be fixing it for years and still get it  
not working in some places - while before the "improvement" it  
worked!' He couldn't see how Derick ever expected to have the full  
timezone list, given that both Unix and Windows allow their timezone  
databases to be extended and timezone rules to be changed. Even if  
Derick added the name there, there was no guarantee that the rules  
the library uses would match the rules the rest of the OS uses. How  
could he be certain that PHP applications wouldn't change from DST to  
standard time a week earlier than the rest of the applications on a  
given box? As for portability, Stas found it more seriously annoying  
when the application running on his own platform suddenly stopped  
working and couldn't be fixed without patching C code.

Derick asserted that a timezone abbreviation should never be used in  
the first place; the real name for Stas' timezone is ' Asia/ 
Tel_Aviv', and that won't change, whereas IDT is an arbitrary  
description of Israel's local time in combination with Daylight  
Savings Time. His timezone database is updated from the Olson tz  
database, which is also used by the GNU C Library, and therefore all  
open source operating systems. If the OS didn't use that database, it  
would be the distribution that was incorrect and not PHP. The problem  
with OS services is that the timezone abbreviations they use are not  
unique, and don't offer a solid way of handling complex work. Having  
to set date.timezone was the only penalty for having superior  
timezone handling in PHP, and Derick felt that this was negligible;  
nobody needs to change any C code in order to pick the correct  
timezone as a setting. However, if you didn't set the timezone in any  
of the three ways open to you via PHP, the fallback - failing a  
'magical' guess from those operating systems that support it - would  
be UTC.

Stas argued that breaking working applications was a Bad Thing -  
timezone abbreviations given by the system had been understood by PHP  
until now, and he didn't see why that should suddenly stop being the  
case. Besides, if you didn't use the system's rules you would have  
serious problems keeping them up to date - wouldn't he need to  
reinstall PHP to pick up Derick's timezone database fixes? As for  
now, PHP was totally crippled, since he couldn't use date() unless he  
somehow guessed what the new library wanted from him. What would  
happen when he wanted to install his application on a user's system?  
The library itself doesn't offer any assistance, it simply refuses to  
work until you find the correct name for the timezone, whereas before  
it 'just worked', the same as all the other applications on his box.  
Why should PHP need special handling to do that? And how had Derick  
arrived at the setting he needed, where was that documented? How  
would he find out what his mythical client needed to use? Stas wrote  
that he didn't have a problem with date() gaining additional  
capabilities - he just didn't see why this should be at the cost of  
making previously working code require additional configuration which  
couldn't possibly be automated, given that the configuration value  
doesn't exist anywhere in the system settings. Wasn't there a way to  
use the old, working version of date() so that - without anything  
being set manually - it would work as it did under PHP 4?

Derick explained that the 'magic guess' works in many cases, just not  
in the case of IDT. He didn't want to see any of the code relying on  
the system settings, but agreed that the list of available settings  
should be documented in the near future. Ilia Alshanetsky backed  
Derick, saying that 'Asia/Tel_Aviv' was the standard name for Stas'  
timezone across most systems, whereas he'd just run some tests and  
found that neither Linux, FreeBSD nor Solaris understood 'IDT'. The  
way Derick had implemented the date library ensured a constant,  
unchanging list of available timezones. This wasn't the case when  
system settings were relied upon.

Stas continued to argue his corner at some length, suggesting that  
there could at least be a function named system_date() which would  
work the same way the old date() function used to work. He wanted to  
work with the system's settings, and suspected that the majority of  
the use cases for date() would be happy with that behaviour. Zeev  
Suraski agreed with Stas, saying that he hadn't seen a single good  
justification yet for the fact that a working application suddenly  
stopped working following an upgrade. The code in question didn't  
have a hard-coded timezone abbreviation, it simply used a system  
setting, and Zeev didn't think this was likely to be an approach  
unique to Zend's in-house developers. He ended soberly, 'The fact  
that date() now tries to be intelligent about it but fail is a real  
problem.'

By now Derick was also coming under attack from Pierre-Alain Joye  
over having ext/date as part of the core in the first place, and  
threw out a plea for an end to the 'bickering'. He wrote that he'd  
already spoken with the documentation team about how to document the  
timezones PHP now supports, and asked for anyone with any ideas about  
how to make things better to step forward. He went on to say that the  
reason IDT isn't in his timezone abbreviations list is that the  
legacy code behind strtotime() already uses IST for Indian Standard  
Time, and not for Israel Standard Time; allowing IST (and therefore  
IDT) for Israel would create conflict here.

Lukas Smith summarized the wider debate, saying that keeping both  
versions of the date() implementation might ease the short-term pain  
but would lead to a waste of development resources, and it was  
inevitable that PHP users would eventually be forced to adapt to the  
new solution. The real question was when 'eventually' should be?  
'Should there be an interim period where we keep both implementations?'

Meanwhile, Edin Kadribasic backed Pierre's chief argument about  
keeping the date extension in PECL 'for all the fancy stuff' and  
retaining the old date implementation in the core; Ron Korving popped  
his head above the parapet long enough to note that changing the  
approach now could postpone PHP 5.1's release date; and Stas got into  
a fight with Lukas over the meaning of 'portable'. So I asked a  
stupid question; why isn't there a default setting that's set by the  
system date() data?

Stas responded first, saying that if that were the case he'd be the  
first to applaud the work done on ext/date, but he understood Derick  
to have said it wasn't possible. Derick replied that actually this is  
exactly what he was trying to achieve; it's just that the fallback  
abbreviations (IDT) haven't all been linked to their respective  
timezone identifiers yet (Asia/Tel_Aviv). He went on to say that he  
now had a patch that will allow the timezone guessing code to check  
against the GMT offset as well as the abbreviation, and was looking  
into ways of creating the database for that. Stas raised the unlikely  
spectre of two timezones sharing the same abbreviation and current  
GMT offset but different rules, but you could see he was tiring. I  
put in a plea for a more locale-aware E_STRICT message offering the  
precise string to put into the php.ini, but Derick explained (off- 
list) that this wouldn't be possible to implement in the way I  
envisioned, due to the fact that some timezone areas have multiple  
names.

Rasmus Lerdorf echoed Lukas' earlier concern; should we take the BC  
hit now, and have clean and consistent date/time handling, or should  
we keep BC, hold up the 5.1 release for a couple of weeks, and  
support two date/time systems forever? His personal inclination was  
towards keeping BC, but he felt there was a lot to be said for not  
having two different implementations. Perhaps everyone who argued so  
strongly over the issue should come on board to help with testing  
now, and help make the new implementation back compatible.

Andi Gutmans replied that he'd only agreed to have ext/date in PHP  
5.1 because Derick had promised it wouldn't break BC. As this  
obviously wasn't the case, he hoped to see the ability to get back  
the old behaviour, even if that had to be via an .ini setting. Wez  
backed him, saying that date() in 5.1 should default to the old code  
and have a toggle for the new implementation. There should also be a  
deprecation notice to warn users about the move planned for PHP 6...  
Andi agreed and asked Derick to return the support for the old  
functionality and create an .ini option, saying that he didn't  
believe 5.1 could be released in its current state. Derick argued  
that the code under discussion wasn't the code Andi was referring to,  
which is still disabled, and Jani Taskinen pointed out that this  
wasn't a bug fix release and users didn't have to upgrade to it. Wez  
argued that 'to completely replace the default implementation of a  
core function... is quite a risk', and that the PHP project is big  
enough now to have a responsibility to its users. Whether PHP 5.1 was  
intended to be a bug fix release or not was irrelevant; he called for  
a solid, reliable approach to software development, and espoused the  
Solaris team's approach (of having two sets of APIs). Andi backed him  
all the way over this.

Back to the topic in hand, Moshe Doron raised the subject of non- 
rules; 'Here in Israel, there is stupid habit to change the DST range  
almost each year. Should I expect that today's date() function will  
give me the wrong date next year?' If so, he reasoned, it would  
constitute a fatal BC break for Israeli users. Andi clarified this: a  
parliamentary decision is taken with regard to daylight savings time  
each year, and Israeli sysadmins generally have an automated way of  
getting the updated timezone file from a central distribution server  
and dropping it into the system. Israel probably isn't the only  
country with a dynamically changing database, and if Derick's  
implementation couldn't support that, the old API would have to be  
supported. However, Derick had done his homework, and broke the news  
that a permanent daylight savings rule was created for Israel this  
year. Brazil was the only other country he knew of in that situation.  
His solution was to create a PECL extension incorporating an updated  
timezone database, which would be used by the core functions when  
installed. Re-introducing the old API would mean re-introducing  
around 20 known bugs into PHP; the whole reason for the new API was  
that the old one was broken. Wez argued that having 20 known bugs was  
better than having an unknown quantity of unknown bugs, and asked if  
Derick could honestly guarantee that there wouldn't be a BC breakage  
by the time of release? Derick replied that there wasn't any BC  
breakage if people had the .ini directive set correctly anyway, but  
that the guessing mechanism should cover the majority of cases -  
nobody could guarantee a 100% success rate.

Short version: Timezone guessing is (theoretically) correct in most  
cases now, and there will be a PECL extension to cope with Brasilian  
timezone updates etc.
-snip-
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nyphpcon.com

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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Tue Feb 27 11:52:29 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:52:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Daylight Savings Time in U.S. Coming Up Very
	Soon
In-Reply-To: <002f01c75a8e$a2a70860$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <68CEE18E-9F95-4D8A-976B-78F2D7428332@jonbaer.com>
	<002f01c75a8e$a2a70860$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <b76252690702270852n52220d45n3269d65c22519e9d@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/27/07, Peter Sawczynec <ps at sun-code.com> wrote:
> This is an excellent lucid recap. Thank you.

+1, thanks Jon.

I'm surprised that PHP doesn't use the system timezone data, too, but
that's just my Linux-centric view of the world. I've got a server that
I can set forward to March 12, I'll see what time PHP 5.2 thinks it
is...

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Tue Feb 27 11:53:28 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:53:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Daylight Savings Time in U.S. Coming Up Very Soon
In-Reply-To: <002f01c75a8e$a2a70860$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <002f01c75a8e$a2a70860$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <45E46208.6050205@phpwerx.net>

Peter Sawczynec wrote:
> This is an excellent lucid recap. Thank you. 
> 
> So my take away is that PHP date() et al. is fairly adept at handling
> time zones as based upon a relatively uniform database of
> internationally-recognized time zone names, but that D.S.T. as a
> changeable entity is not handled. So it appears to me that at this time
> one must reach into one's code and put in a fix for the shortly upcoming
> new non-standard D.S.T. associated to the several time zones in the U.S.
> and that PHP is at this time not prepared to handle this change until it
> is added into the core functions at a later date and that such new
> D.S.T. update is not currently incorporated in an version of PHP 5.x

I must confess to not keeping up with the latest wranglings in php5.x,
but as far as I am aware php4.x draws its timezone information from the
operating system and my testing indicates that it is 100% correct on
both my windows XP machine and linux (debian stable) server.

Dan


From dorgan at optonline.net  Tue Feb 27 11:54:11 2007
From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:54:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Daylight Savings Time in U.S. Coming Up Very Soon
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702270852n52220d45n3269d65c22519e9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <68CEE18E-9F95-4D8A-976B-78F2D7428332@jonbaer.com>
	<002f01c75a8e$a2a70860$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
	<b76252690702270852n52220d45n3269d65c22519e9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45E46233.3030409@optonline.net>

go for it

csnyder wrote:
> On 2/27/07, Peter Sawczynec <ps at sun-code.com> wrote:
>> This is an excellent lucid recap. Thank you.
>
> +1, thanks Jon.
>
> I'm surprised that PHP doesn't use the system timezone data, too, but
> that's just my Linux-centric view of the world. I've got a server that
> I can set forward to March 12, I'll see what time PHP 5.2 thinks it
> is...
>


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Tue Feb 27 11:59:18 2007
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:59:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Daylight Savings Time in U.S. Coming Up Very Soon
In-Reply-To: <45E46208.6050205@phpwerx.net>
References: <002f01c75a8e$a2a70860$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
	<45E46208.6050205@phpwerx.net>
Message-ID: <45E46366.3040700@phpwerx.net>

Dan Cech wrote:
> I must confess to not keeping up with the latest wranglings in php5.x,
> but as far as I am aware php4.x draws its timezone information from the
> operating system and my testing indicates that it is 100% correct on
> both my windows XP machine and linux (debian stable) server.

As an addendum, here is the test I used:

<?php
echo date('r',1173596399)."\n";
echo date('r',1173596400)."\n";

result:

Sun, 11 Mar 2007 01:59:59 -0500
Sun, 11 Mar 2007 03:00:00 -0400

Exactly the same output on both winxp and debian

Dan


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Tue Feb 27 11:59:29 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:59:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Daylight Savings Time in U.S. Coming Up Very
	Soon
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702270852n52220d45n3269d65c22519e9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <68CEE18E-9F95-4D8A-976B-78F2D7428332@jonbaer.com>
	<002f01c75a8e$a2a70860$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
	<b76252690702270852n52220d45n3269d65c22519e9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690702270859s2524644bkf52686c3d1b7e569@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/27/07, csnyder <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can set forward to March 12, I'll see what time PHP 5.2 thinks it
> is...

Well, that worked as expected, no problem.

You can manually check the date category of phpinfo()'s output to see
which timezone database is in use. My guess is that any database
marked 2006 is going to be accurate come 3/11.

"Timezone Database Version 	2006.14"

Phew.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Tue Feb 27 13:20:46 2007
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:20:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] New Daylight Savings Time in U.S. Coming Up Very Soon
In-Reply-To: <001701c75a79$21428a20$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <001701c75a79$21428a20$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <20070227182046.GA1930@panix.com>

On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 09:11:04AM -0500, Peter Sawczynec wrote:
>  
> As far as I can research it, the PHP built-in date() functions and the
> special date("I") 
> used to identify D.S.T. will not be accurate to match this recent change
> and 
> programmers will need to accommodate this D.S.T. change.

It should be if you use a current version of PHP.  We're upgrading to PHP 
5.2.1 because of the time change.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From selyah1 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 27 15:59:23 2007
From: selyah1 at yahoo.com (selyah)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:59:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] auto generate select tag in html
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702270859s2524644bkf52686c3d1b7e569@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <531589.98013.qm@web30812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello all:
i am designing a form in php and it combines HTML, I have not program in HTML in a while and need a refresher, but i am hoping that someone can help me with this simple issue.
I just need to know the syntax to get the <select></select> tag in HTML to auto generate a list when new <option></option>'s are created.
in other words as the options get created from a form in php, another form  where the select tag is located will have the new items.
thanks in advance
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Tue Feb 27 16:06:24 2007
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:06:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] auto generate select tag in html
In-Reply-To: <531589.98013.qm@web30812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C20A0780.FE7%cliff@pinestream.com>

You can write a simple function yourself or use this:
http://pear.php.net/package/HTML_Select

Cliff

On 2/27/07 3:59 PM, "selyah" <selyah1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello all:
> i am designing a form in php and it combines HTML, I have not program in HTML
> in a while and need a refresher, but i am hoping that someone can help me with
> this simple issue.
> I just need to know the syntax to get the <select></select> tag in HTML to
> auto generate a list when new <option></option>'s are created.
> in other words as the options get created from a form in php, another form
> where the select tag is located will have the new items.
> thanks in advance

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From selyah1 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 27 16:12:50 2007
From: selyah1 at yahoo.com (selyah)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:12:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] auto generate select tag in html
In-Reply-To: <C20A0780.FE7%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <180064.3494.qm@web30812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

thanks for the link

Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:Re: [nycphp-talk] auto generate select tag in html     You can write a simple function yourself or use this: http://pear.php.net/package/HTML_Select
 
 Cliff
 
 On 2/27/07 3:59 PM, "selyah" <selyah1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
 Hello all:
 i am designing a form in php and it combines HTML, I have not program in HTML in a while and need a refresher, but i am hoping that someone can help me with this simple issue.
 I just need to know the syntax to get the <select></select> tag in HTML to auto generate a list when new <option></option>'s are created.
 in other words as the options get created from a form in php, another form  where the select tag is located will have the new items.
 thanks in advance _______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


          IAN HAYLES , B,S, A.S
  http://www.newdesignconcepts.net
 Engineering Technology/Network Design  
HM.:(386)789-2638
  CELL:(386)216-6241





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From apg88zx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 27 16:13:56 2007
From: apg88zx at gmail.com (Alvaro P.)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:13:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] auto generate select tag in html
In-Reply-To: <531589.98013.qm@web30812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <531589.98013.qm@web30812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45E49F14.8070500@gmail.com>

I think this is what you mean:

echo "<select name=\"list\">\n";
foreach ($list_items as $item) {
    echo "<option value=\"$item\">$item</option>\n";
}
echo "</select>";


-Alvaro

selyah wrote:
> Hello all:
> i am designing a form in php and it combines HTML, I have not program 
> in HTML in a while and need a refresher, but i am hoping that someone 
> can help me with this simple issue.
> I just need to know the syntax to get the <select></select> tag in 
> HTML to auto generate a list when new <option></option>'s are created.
> in other words as the options get created from a form in php, another 
> form  where the select tag is located will have the new items.
> thanks in advance
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From selyah1 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 27 16:18:28 2007
From: selyah1 at yahoo.com (selyah)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:18:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] auto generate select tag in html
In-Reply-To: <45E49F14.8070500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <496246.22321.qm@web30815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

that is more like what I remembered.,....thanks

"Alvaro P." <apg88zx at gmail.com> wrote: I think this is what you mean:

echo "    $item";


-Alvaro

selyah wrote:
> Hello all:
> i am designing a form in php and it combines HTML, I have not program 
> in HTML in a while and need a refresher, but i am hoping that someone 
> can help me with this simple issue.
> I just need to know the syntax to get the  tag in 
> HTML to auto generate a list when new 's are created.
> in other words as the options get created from a form in php, another 
> form  where the select tag is located will have the new items.
> thanks in advance
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



          IAN HAYLES , B,S, A.S
  http://www.newdesignconcepts.net
 Engineering Technology/Network Design  
HM.:(386)789-2638
  CELL:(386)216-6241





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From ramons at gmx.net  Tue Feb 27 19:27:28 2007
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:27:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] auto generate select tag in html
In-Reply-To: <531589.98013.qm@web30812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <531589.98013.qm@web30812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45E4CC70.9090405@gmx.net>

selyah wrote:
> Hello all:
> i am designing a form in php and it combines HTML, I have not program in 
> HTML in a while and need a refresher, but i am hoping that someone can 
> help me with this simple issue.
> I just need to know the syntax to get the <select></select> tag in HTML 
> to auto generate a list when new <option></option>'s are created.
> in other words as the options get created from a form in php, another 
> form  where the select tag is located will have the new items.
> thanks in advance
> 

The refresher you need is here: http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp

David


From ewgra at rambler.ru  Wed Feb 28 08:38:41 2007
From: ewgra at rambler.ru (=?windows-1251?B?0e7q7uvu4iDF4uPl7ejp?=)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:38:41 +0300
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hi from Russia
Message-ID: <487739115.1172669921.169933048.24333@mcgi29.rambler.ru>

Any body here from Russia? or speek on russian? (my English is not good)

i want introduce with people from other country and talk with Instant 
Messenger client - ICQ or Skype


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Feb 28 11:39:25 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:39:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL Tuning.
Message-ID: <45E5B03D.9040204@cyberxdesigns.com>

There was some intense discussion last night at TGIF about MySQL tuning 
and some problems my group has been having with inserts into InnoDB 
tables.  I was asked to provide our my.cnf for review.

We are doing a big data import and the problem was inserts were taking 
up to 20 seconds on a table of 8 Million rows, which didn't seem right 
as we have tables in excess of 25 million rows in the same database.  
There were two indexes: Primary and a compound index of two string 
columns (32bit String MD5 + varchar50).  The combination has a 
cardinality of about 400,000.  Dropping the indexes before we started 
our big import sped thing up considerably.  We now drop the index, run 
the big import, and then rebuild the indexes.  This solution doesn't 
really address the real problem, which I haven't quite figured out.  Any 
further guidance is appreciated.

Hans K

The machine is a Dual 2.8Ghz Xeon with 4GB Ram.

---  Start my.cnf -------
[mysqld]
innodb_data_home_dir =
innodb_data_file_path = /foo/mysql/data/ibdata1:100M:autoextend
set-variable = innodb_buffer_pool_size=2000M
set-variable = innodb_additional_mem_pool=500M
set-variable = innodb_log_file_size=150M
set-variable = innodb_log_buffer_size=8M

#innodb_flush_log_at_trx_commit=1

socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock
datadir=/foo/mysql/data/

[client]
socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock
#EOF
 


From tedd at sperling.com  Wed Feb 28 12:16:09 2007
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 12:16:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL Tuning.
In-Reply-To: <45E5B03D.9040204@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45E5B03D.9040204@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c20b6914c4ed@[192.168.0.100]>

At 11:39 AM -0500 2/28/07, Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
>There was some intense discussion last night at TGIF about MySQL 
>tuning and some problems my group has been having with inserts into 
>InnoDB tables.  I was asked to provide our my.cnf for review.
>
>We are doing a big data import and the problem was inserts were 
>taking up to 20 seconds on a table of 8 Million rows, which didn't 
>seem right as we have tables in excess of 25 million rows in the 
>same database.  There were two indexes: Primary and a compound index 
>of two string columns (32bit String MD5 + varchar50).  The 
>combination has a cardinality of about 400,000.  Dropping the 
>indexes before we started our big import sped thing up considerably. 
>We now drop the index, run the big import, and then rebuild the 
>indexes.  This solution doesn't really address the real problem, 
>which I haven't quite figured out.  Any further guidance is 
>appreciated.
>
>Hans K
>
>The machine is a Dual 2.8Ghz Xeon with 4GB Ram.
>
>---  Start my.cnf -------
>[mysqld]
>innodb_data_home_dir =
>innodb_data_file_path = /foo/mysql/data/ibdata1:100M:autoextend
>set-variable = innodb_buffer_pool_size=2000M
>set-variable = innodb_additional_mem_pool=500M
>set-variable = innodb_log_file_size=150M
>set-variable = innodb_log_buffer_size=8M
>
>#innodb_flush_log_at_trx_commit=1
>
>socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock
>datadir=/foo/mysql/data/
>
>[client]
>socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock
>#EOF

That's the type of question I would ask the MySQL list.

List-Archive: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/mysql>
List-Post: <mailto:mysql at lists.nyphp.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mysql-request at lists.nyphp.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/mysql>,
	<mailto:mysql-request at lists.nyphp.org?subject=subscribe>

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From ken at secdat.com  Wed Feb 28 12:24:56 2007
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 12:24:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL Tuning.
In-Reply-To: <45E5B03D.9040204@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45E5B03D.9040204@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <45E5BAE8.40401@secdat.com>

Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote:
> There was some intense discussion last night at TGIF about MySQL 
> tuning and some problems my group has been having with inserts into 
> InnoDB tables.  I was asked to provide our my.cnf for review.
>
> We are doing a big data import and the problem was inserts were taking 
> up to 20 seconds on a table of 8 Million rows, which didn't seem right 
> as we have tables in excess of 25 million rows in the same database.  
> There were two indexes: Primary and a compound index of two string 
> columns (32bit String MD5 + varchar50).  The combination has a 
> cardinality of about 400,000.  Dropping the indexes before we started 
> our big import sped thing up considerably.  We now drop the index, run 
> the big import, and then rebuild the indexes.  This solution doesn't 
> really address the real problem, which I haven't quite figured out.  
> Any further guidance is appreciated.
>

This is a pretty standard approach to large loads for all database 
vendors, MS SQL, DB/2, Oracle, Postgres, etc.

The slowdown comes from the fact that you are updating not just the 
table but the indexes.  The indexes in particular tend to become 
unbalanced quickly and they start to chew up a lot of time.

The standard approaches are:

1)  As done above, drop indexes before load
2)  Break up load to go row-at-a-time.  This is still slow, but it 
causes the loading program to be a "good citizen" and not choke the 
database or require dropping indexes.

-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com / www.andromeda-project.org
Office: 631-689-7200   Cell: 631-379-0010

::Think you may have a problem with programming? Ask yourself this 
::question: do you worry about how to throw away a garbage can?



From cahoyos at us.ibm.com  Wed Feb 28 12:27:30 2007
From: cahoyos at us.ibm.com (Carlos A Hoyos)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 12:27:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL Tuning.
In-Reply-To: <45E5B03D.9040204@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <OFEAE00018.8A44A42D-ON85257290.005F4E94-85257290.005FE6F6@us.ibm.com>

talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org wrote on 02/28/2007 11:39:25 AM:

> There was some intense discussion last night at TGIF about MySQL tuning
> and some problems my group has been having with inserts into InnoDB
> tables.  I was asked to provide our my.cnf for review.

Indeed it was. Funny how things seem more interesting at that venue ;-)

>
> We are doing a big data import and the problem was inserts were taking
> up to 20 seconds on a table of 8 Million rows, which didn't seem right
> as we have tables in excess of 25 million rows in the same database.
> There were two indexes: Primary and a compound index of two string
> columns (32bit String MD5 + varchar50).  The combination has a
> cardinality of about 400,000.  Dropping the indexes before we started
> our big import sped thing up considerably.  We now drop the index, run
> the big import, and then rebuild the indexes.  This solution doesn't
> really address the real problem, which I haven't quite figured out.  Any
> further guidance is appreciated.
How are you loading the data? When doing bulk loads, mysql is usually smart
to load everything first and then rebuild the indexes. But unique indexes
are checked at once.

Some tips that have worked for me:
- If you're exporting the data from another source, try if possible to
export it sorted by your primary key.
- Increase key_buffer so that your index will fit on it.

Carlos Hoyos




From lists at silmail.com  Wed Feb 28 12:32:33 2007
From: lists at silmail.com (Jiju Thomas Mathew)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 23:02:33 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL Tuning.
In-Reply-To: <45E5B03D.9040204@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <45E5B03D.9040204@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <6431a0f40702280932s2c4d710ak937672263a7696a9@mail.gmail.com>

> There were two indexes: Primary and a compound index of two string
> columns (32bit String MD5 + varchar50).  The combination has a
> cardinality of about 400,000.  Dropping the indexes before we started
>

This is quite okay.. and this is how it is designed.. actually mysql tries
to update
the indexes as the import is processing.. well you could try
ALTER TABLE <tablename> DISABLE KEYS;
before import and
ALTER TABLE <tablename> ENABLE KEYS;
after import.

if the cardinality is this high, try partial indexes, ie like
key 'part_combined` (str_md5 (15), str_var (20)), this will just
reduce the index file size, and in turn help you to handle more
read requests simultaneously.

what is the current size of your ibdata1 (you started it at 100M), if you
want to control it.. try my kit http://www.saturn.in/gpl/mysql.html

-- 
Jiju Thomas Mathew
http://www.php-trivandrum.org
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From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Feb 28 14:07:34 2007
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:07:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] MySQL Tuning.
In-Reply-To: <6431a0f40702280932s2c4d710ak937672263a7696a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45E5B03D.9040204@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<6431a0f40702280932s2c4d710ak937672263a7696a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45E5D2F6.7090200@cyberxdesigns.com>

I moved it to OT because it is not directly PHP related, except that PHP 
is driving all the SQL.

> ALTER TABLE <tablename> DISABLE KEYS;
> before import and
> ALTER TABLE <tablename> ENABLE KEYS;
> after import.
>
I am going to look at using DISABLE/ENABLE instead of dropping and adding. 

> if the cardinality is this high, try partial indexes, ie like
> key 'part_combined` (str_md5 (15), str_var (20)), this will just
> reduce the index file size, and in turn help you to handle more
> read requests simultaneously.
I will suggest this approach.
>
> what is the current size of your ibdata1 (you started it at 100M), if you
> want to control it.. try my kit http://www.saturn.in/gpl/mysql.html
>
ibdata1 is 67GB.

With regard to the key_buffer comment from Carlos, we are using 7.3mil 
of 8.3mil.  I am not exactly sure how much to boost this.

Hans


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Feb 28 15:11:09 2007
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:11:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive
	fall-back
In-Reply-To: <45E396E1.30605@php.net>
References: <C2085846.ECE%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<b76252690702261528j46c8bb50i44d26c7fd41cab84@mail.gmail.com>
	<45E396E1.30605@php.net>
Message-ID: <b76252690702281211jae6bf59gc9d4b093ca68d339@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/26/07, Chris Shiflett <shiflett at php.net> wrote:

> What's the best-of-breed solution for changing a regular form submission
> button to initiate an Ajax call instead of submitting the form? I've got
> a hacky solution that involves rewriting the button, adding an
> onsubmit() action, and trying to keep it from submitting the form in IE,
> but it feels like there must be a more elegant solution.
>

That's why I used the word "mojo" -- it's not the name of a new
framework, it's a description of the approach. Or as you say, hacky.

I leave form buttons intact, and just change the form's target
attribute to submit to a hidden iframe. I prefer that method since it
allows file upload, whereas XMLHttpRequest form submission does not.

Getting the response out of the iframe is also hacky, but iframes
generate an onload event. The code to actually get the content out is
platform dependent:

function iframeonload() {
  var ifdoc = $("hiddenIFrame").contentDocument ||
document.frames("hiddenIFrame").document;
  // etc...
}

What you _don't_ get with iframes is any sort of intelligent HTTP
error handling.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From ps at sun-code.com  Wed Feb 28 15:56:48 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:56:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no
	progressivefall-back
In-Reply-To: <b76252690702281211jae6bf59gc9d4b093ca68d339@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c75b7a$fa401570$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

It is interesting to note here that iframes have a history. If I recall
correctly: 

Originally, iframes were an IE only gambit and served to sidestep the
more routinely employed numbingly complex of framesets, divs, layers and
ilayers. 

Then iframes were a security issue.

Today iframes are a very handy vehicle allowing fast integration of
disparate content items/sources. 

Like Jeff Goldblum as Dr. Ian Malcolm says -- I think maybe in Jurassic
Park X, and correct me if I am wrong, but he says: "Nature will find a
way. Nature always finds a way."

Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of csnyder
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 3:11 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no
progressivefall-back


On 2/26/07, Chris Shiflett <shiflett at php.net> wrote:

> What's the best-of-breed solution for changing a regular form
submission
> button to initiate an Ajax call instead of submitting the form? I've
got
> a hacky solution that involves rewriting the button, adding an
> onsubmit() action, and trying to keep it from submitting the form in
IE,
> but it feels like there must be a more elegant solution.
>

That's why I used the word "mojo" -- it's not the name of a new
framework, it's a description of the approach. Or as you say, hacky.

I leave form buttons intact, and just change the form's target
attribute to submit to a hidden iframe. I prefer that method since it
allows file upload, whereas XMLHttpRequest form submission does not.

Getting the response out of the iframe is also hacky, but iframes
generate an onload event. The code to actually get the content out is
platform dependent:

function iframeonload() {
  var ifdoc = $("hiddenIFrame").contentDocument ||
document.frames("hiddenIFrame").document;
  // etc...
}

What you _don't_ get with iframes is any sort of intelligent HTTP
error handling.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Feb 28 19:04:28 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:04:28 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with
	no	progressivefall-back
In-Reply-To: <003e01c75b7a$fa401570$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <003e01c75b7a$fa401570$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <7624-59807@sneakemail.com>

Peter Sawczynec ps-at-sun-code.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>It is interesting to note here that iframes have a history. If I recall
>correctly: 
>
>Originally, iframes were an IE only gambit and served to sidestep the
>more routinely employed numbingly complex of framesets, divs, layers and
>ilayers. 
>
>Then iframes were a security issue.
>
>Today iframes are a very handy vehicle allowing fast integration of
>disparate content items/sources. 
>
>Like Jeff Goldblum as Dr. Ian Malcolm says -- I think maybe in Jurassic
>Park X, and correct me if I am wrong, but he says: "Nature will find a
>way. Nature always finds a way."
>
>Peter
>  
>
And as I am sure many people have said, big business will always try and 
limit innovation. IFrames (and asynchronous modification of page 
content) is a problem for search engines. To the extent that you need 
search engine referred traffic relevant to your page content, you need 
to avoid iframes and ajax (for now).

Chris' example is a submisison form, which has little to do with SE 
traffic. In general iframes are problematic for search engine spiders 
and ajax used for content (as opposed to UI stuff) is also problematic 
for spiders and indexing.

-=john andrews
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From ps at sun-code.com  Wed Feb 28 21:07:01 2007
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 21:07:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript
	withno	progressivefall-back
In-Reply-To: <7624-59807@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c75ba6$53649d30$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>

Gaining and maintaining good search engine results is important.

But, personally (and I'm stressing the all out subjectivity) I would not
press a client to compromise or shelve one iota of cutting edge,
involving, striking, memorable, convenient, effective, versatile,
cost-effective, meaningful, productive, or any other 'dead right on,
exactly what the site needs' design or layout or tools or architecture
even if search engines still have issues with it. 

That is my pure personal subjective attitude. 

So I'd say: use iframes to integrate content, if that is the answer that
solves your web presentation issue. Then use the entire tool box of
other ways to fortify your seo issues. But, of course, the customer gets
the final say.

Several, top-level solid pages on the site that have well-thought-out
page title, complete meta tags, alt tags and other proper company
information and identification are the core essentials that need to be
injected into the site. Then you need some meaningful content that is
worth checking out.

Because I deal freelance essentially with smaller businesses (though
they usually have gross sales in the multi-millions), when I first come
across their existing low search engine visibility pages, (I am sorry to
disclose) but I have found they frequently don't even have proper meta
tags. After we pump in the meta, structure the site properly, present it
more clearly with a sound menu and architecture, their search engine
results are nicely improved and we even have some Flash eye candy and
use JavaScripted menus, and make titles out of gifs. 

I would never stop a client from listening to and employing specialized
seo consultation strategies and if they were to direct me to meet
certain criteria, I'd do it. 

When I go to work, I first reference powerhouse sites like cnn, mtv,
bbc, yahoo, google, cartier, kb homes, dodge, vogue, dow jones, forbes,
fortune... and see what they are up too. They are not running from any
technology, they all pull every dirty development technique in the book
that makes the site work for the user to the point where they put heir
own web cause second and the user's cause first. And they seem to keep
winning. 

As usual I would first stress business/web innovation and leadership
first -- see how your immediate clients and their clients express
appreciation -- your business will get recognized for all of it.

Just my dos centavos.

Warmest regards, 
 
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Director 
PSWebcode 
_Design & Interface 
_Ecommerce 
_Database Management 
646.316.3678 
ps at pswebcode.com 
www.pswebcode.com 




 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of inforequest
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 7:04 PM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript withno
progressivefall-back


Peter Sawczynec ps-at-sun-code.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>It is interesting to note here that iframes have a history. If I recall
>correctly: 
>
>Originally, iframes were an IE only gambit and served to sidestep the
>more routinely employed numbingly complex of framesets, divs, layers
and
>ilayers. 
>
>Then iframes were a security issue.
>
>Today iframes are a very handy vehicle allowing fast integration of
>disparate content items/sources. 
>
>Like Jeff Goldblum as Dr. Ian Malcolm says -- I think maybe in Jurassic
>Park X, and correct me if I am wrong, but he says: "Nature will find a
>way. Nature always finds a way."
>
>Peter
>  
>
And as I am sure many people have said, big business will always try and

limit innovation. IFrames (and asynchronous modification of page 
content) is a problem for search engines. To the extent that you need 
search engine referred traffic relevant to your page content, you need 
to avoid iframes and ajax (for now).

Chris' example is a submisison form, which has little to do with SE 
traffic. In general iframes are problematic for search engine spiders 
and ajax used for content (as opposed to UI stuff) is also problematic 
for spiders and indexing.

-=john andrews
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web
business information available. Do you know where your logs are right
now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were
last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive
Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Feb 28 22:40:06 2007
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:40:06 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thoughts on using
	JavaScript	withno	progressivefall-back
In-Reply-To: <000101c75ba6$53649d30$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
References: <000101c75ba6$53649d30$6401a8c0@SUNCODE1>
Message-ID: <19573-79112@sneakemail.com>

Peter Sawczynec ps-at-sun-code.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>Gaining and maintaining good search engine results is important.
>  
>

I'd refer that judgement to the specific web site / page. The importance 
varies by project.

>But, personally (and I'm stressing the all out subjectivity) I would not
>press a client to compromise or shelve one iota of cutting edge,
>involving, striking, memorable, convenient, effective, versatile,
>cost-effective, meaningful, productive, or any other 'dead right on,
>exactly what the site needs' design or layout or tools or architecture
>even if search engines still have issues with it. 
>
>That is my pure personal subjective attitude. 
>  
>
Again, impact of your described approach really depends on project. If 
the project needs search referrals, and you take a design approach that 
prevents search engines from referring traffic (for whatever reason), 
you lose. Plain and simple.

>So I'd say: use iframes to integrate content, if that is the answer that
>solves your web presentation issue. Then use the entire tool box of
>other ways to fortify your seo issues. But, of course, the customer gets
>the final say.
>  
>
Sometimes there are no tools to fix a design-imposed barrier except the 
delete tool ;-)

>I would never stop a client from listening to and employing specialized
>seo consultation strategies and if they were to direct me to meet
>certain criteria, I'd do it. 
>  
>
Of course.

>When I go to work, I first reference powerhouse sites like cnn, mtv,
>bbc, yahoo, google, cartier, kb homes, dodge, vogue, dow jones, forbes,
>fortune... and see what they are up too. They are not running from any
>technology, they all pull every dirty development technique in the book
>that makes the site work for the user to the point where they put heir
>own web cause second and the user's cause first. And they seem to keep
>winning.
>
I can almost guarantee that all of those have serious SEO people working 
for them, but perhaps not on the specific sites. They sometimes have a 
strategy of buying traffic through other means (PPC) as well.

Funny you mention Vogue see 
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Avogue.com&btnG=Google+Search

They don't use vogue.com for search traffic at all.

> 
>
>As usual I would first stress business/web innovation and leadership
>first -- see how your immediate clients and their clients express
>appreciation -- your business will get recognized for all of it.
>
>Just my dos centavos.
>  
>
That's a great value for 2 cents, eh?


>-=john andrews
>  
>


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your web server traffic log file is the most important source of web business information available. Do you know where your logs are right now? Do you know who else has access to your log files? When they were last archived? Where those archives are? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From sergey-ru at list.ru  Wed Feb 28 23:34:51 2007
From: sergey-ru at list.ru (sergey-ru at list.ru)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:34:51 +0300
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hi from Russia
In-Reply-To: <487739115.1172669921.169933048.24333@mcgi29.rambler.ru>
References: <487739115.1172669921.169933048.24333@mcgi29.rambler.ru>
Message-ID: <1275189657.20070301073451@list.ru>

????????????, ???????.

?? ?????? 28 ??????? 2007 ?., 16:38:41:

> Any body here from Russia? or speek on russian? (my English is not good)

> i want introduce with people from other country and talk with Instant 
> Messenger client - ICQ or Skype
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com

> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

?????????? ???????.

???? ????? ?????? (25). ? ????????? PHP ??? ?????,
????????? ???????? ???????????????? ? ????? ?? ?????
??????????? ???????????.
(? ? ???? ? 7:30 ?? 17:00 ????? ??????????)
-- 
? ?????????,
 ?????? ??????                          mailto:sergey-ru at list.ru