From nhart at partsauthority.com Mon Mar 1 14:34:24 2010 From: nhart at partsauthority.com (Nicholas Hart) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 14:34:24 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 40, Issue 30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3719ecad1003011134p7e1e846bt75919e91f7f1d7f@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm trying to use the Zend provided mysql which runs on the ISeries. However, I also need a way to replicate certain DB2 data files to it. There should be a way to do this without having to go out to the network. So I am looking for an API and/or a way to write directly to the binlogs if possible. Any information on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Nick On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 12:00 PM, wrote: > Send talk mailing list submissions to > talk at lists.nyphp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > talk-request at lists.nyphp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > talk-owner at lists.nyphp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of talk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RDBMS Applications with Good User and Group Management? > (Michael B Allen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:54:25 -0500 > From: Michael B Allen > To: nyphp > Subject: [nycphp-talk] RDBMS Applications with Good User and Group > Management? > Message-ID: > <78c6bd861002270954k2c14424amea69468de23ad410 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi All, > > I need an RDBMS application that has a decent UI for managing users > and groups to demo a generic security API I'm working on. I was > thinking about Joomla maybe but I'm interested in other suggestions. > It doesn't even have to be PHP or Linux but preferably it should be > something Free that everyone will have access to and preferably > something either very popular or very small. > > More specifically, I'm working on a security API that handles client > and server authentication, creating, updating and deleting accounts > and groups, manipulating group membership, checking group membership, > setting and changing passwords, and so on. I have various > implementations of this API for protocols like Kerberos and LDAP and > now I would like to create an example implementation that uses a > traditional relational database like Oracle or MySQL. But rather than > create an entirely custom database, I thought I would just use an > existing application that installs it's own database and includes a UI > for user and group management. > > So can anyone suggest a preferably small, popular, Free RDBMS > application with a good UI for CRUD operations on accounts and groups? > > Mike > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nyphp.org > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > End of talk Digest, Vol 40, Issue 30 > ************************************ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjcllhn at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 16:51:51 2010 From: jjcllhn at gmail.com (John Callahan) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:51:51 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL <=> DB2i replication Message-ID: <49145ada1003021351n42a5aaebhe6a143848e8185c5@mail.gmail.com> Nick Hart said: Hi, > > I'm trying to use the Zend provided mysql which runs on the ISeries. > However, I also need a way to replicate certain DB2 data files to it. > There > should be a way to do this without having to go out to the network. So I > am > looking for an API and/or a way to write directly to the binlogs if > possible. Any information on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. > > Nick One way to go about the replication would be to use the MySQL IBMDB2i storage engine. If you did, you could handle the replication entirely from the System i side. Read more about it here The DB2 for i (IBMDB2I) Storage Engine for MySQL on IBM i Download The IBMDB2i storage engine requires at least MySQL 5.1.35 (which ships with the ZendServer 5 beta) to run. ZendCore ships with MySQL 5.0.xxx, so you would need to upgrade to a newer version of MySQL to go this route. Jack Callahan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidalanroth at gmail.com Fri Mar 5 03:07:26 2010 From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 03:07:26 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] html to PDF conversion? Message-ID: The solution doesn't have to be written in PHP, but it's fine if it is as long as it works. I'm looking for a command-line way to convert HTML to a PDF on CentOS 5.4, because I need to do this in a shell script to create the webpage as a .PDF file. I've looked at xhtml2pdf written in Python, but CentOS 5.4 is still running Python 2.4 and the best I can tell it needs Python 2.5 or later cause I couldn't get it to work. I also tried PDF-FromHTML-0.31 which is written in PERL, but requires HTML::TIDY which seems to be unavailable currently. Thanks in advance for any advice. If this is now considered trivial to do in PHP and I've just not stumbled across it yet, please enlighten me. David Roth From rsd at electronink.com Fri Mar 5 06:30:19 2010 From: rsd at electronink.com (Russ Demarest) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 06:30:19 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] html to PDF conversion? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0E650FF3-5AA0-47CF-B20C-91255AADD1F7@electronink.com> I have used this in the past. http://www.htmldoc.org/ Good luck On Mar 5, 2010, at 3:07 AM, David Roth wrote: > The solution doesn't have to be written in PHP, but it's fine if it is as long as it works. > > I'm looking for a command-line way to convert HTML to a PDF on CentOS 5.4, because I need to do this in a shell script to create the webpage as a .PDF file. > > I've looked at xhtml2pdf written in Python, but CentOS 5.4 is still running Python 2.4 and the best I can tell it needs Python 2.5 or later cause I couldn't get it to work. > > I also tried PDF-FromHTML-0.31 which is written in PERL, but requires HTML::TIDY which seems to be unavailable currently. > > Thanks in advance for any advice. If this is now considered trivial to do in PHP and I've just not stumbled across it yet, please enlighten me. > > David Roth > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From jcampbell1 at gmail.com Fri Mar 5 10:13:30 2010 From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:13:30 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] html to PDF conversion? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8f0676b41003050713j20b1caefkfe95b7439a5b1013@mail.gmail.com> The best solution I have seen uses webkit create the PDFs. You get pretty much the same results as using the print feature in Safari/Chrome. I don't know if it will run on your system, but it is worth a look: http://code.google.com/p/wkhtmltopdf/ On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 3:07 AM, David Roth wrote: > The solution doesn't have to be written in PHP, but it's fine if it is as > long as it works. > > I'm looking for a command-line way to convert HTML to a PDF on CentOS 5.4, > because I need to do this in a shell script to create the webpage as a .PDF > file. > > I've looked at xhtml2pdf written in Python, but CentOS 5.4 is still running > Python 2.4 and the best I can tell it needs Python 2.5 or later cause I > couldn't get it to work. > > I also tried PDF-FromHTML-0.31 which is written in PERL, but requires > HTML::TIDY which seems to be unavailable currently. > > Thanks in advance for any advice. If this is now considered trivial to do in > PHP and I've just not stumbled across it yet, please enlighten me. > > David Roth > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com Fri Mar 5 10:52:05 2010 From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:52:05 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] html to PDF conversion? In-Reply-To: <8f0676b41003050713j20b1caefkfe95b7439a5b1013@mail.gmail.com> References: <8f0676b41003050713j20b1caefkfe95b7439a5b1013@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 3:07 AM, David Roth wrote: >> I'm looking for a command-line way to convert HTML to a PDF on CentOS 5.4, >> because I need to do this in a shell script to create the webpage as a .PDF >> file. Prince XML has a free non-commercial license: http://www.princexml.com/overview/ I recently read an article on alistapart.com that mentioned it. I'm not sure exactly what system libraries might be needed - it installed with little effort on my mac. I compared it side by side with wkhtmltopdf. wkhtmltopdf produced a better version of the site I pointed it at. Looks like Prince has some more options though - like passing in your own stylesheets and working with xml in addition to html. From davidalanroth at gmail.com Fri Mar 5 11:06:42 2010 From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 11:06:42 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] html to PDF conversion? In-Reply-To: <8f0676b41003050713j20b1caefkfe95b7439a5b1013@mail.gmail.com> References: <8f0676b41003050713j20b1caefkfe95b7439a5b1013@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3503BF0C-7B8B-4D6C-9522-319048ABE091@gmail.com> Thanks to everyone and John for replying. I installed wkhtmltopdf on a CentOS 5.4 i386 machine without any problem. Just the executable was supplied in the i386 version I downloaded and installed. I found something interesting. I used wget to get the HTML and then fed it through wkhtmltopdf. The PDF looked OK, then I noticed in the help you can do wkhtmltopdf website.com website.pdf, so I thought why not let the program do the whole thing. To my surprise the output looked even better! When wkhtmltopdf is getting the web page it performs some magic to create the PDF properly. David Roth On Mar 5, 2010, at 10:13 AM, John Campbell wrote: > The best solution I have seen uses webkit create the PDFs. You get > pretty much the same results as using the print feature in > Safari/Chrome. > > I don't know if it will run on your system, but it is worth a look: > > http://code.google.com/p/wkhtmltopdf/ > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 3:07 AM, David Roth > wrote: >> The solution doesn't have to be written in PHP, but it's fine if it >> is as >> long as it works. >> >> I'm looking for a command-line way to convert HTML to a PDF on >> CentOS 5.4, >> because I need to do this in a shell script to create the webpage >> as a .PDF >> file. >> >> I've looked at xhtml2pdf written in Python, but CentOS 5.4 is still >> running >> Python 2.4 and the best I can tell it needs Python 2.5 or later >> cause I >> couldn't get it to work. >> >> I also tried PDF-FromHTML-0.31 which is written in PERL, but requires >> HTML::TIDY which seems to be unavailable currently. >> >> Thanks in advance for any advice. If this is now considered trivial >> to do in >> PHP and I've just not stumbled across it yet, please enlighten me. >> >> David Roth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >> > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From garyamort at gmail.com Fri Mar 5 11:23:52 2010 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 11:23:52 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] html to PDF conversion? In-Reply-To: <3503BF0C-7B8B-4D6C-9522-319048ABE091@gmail.com> References: <8f0676b41003050713j20b1caefkfe95b7439a5b1013@mail.gmail.com> <3503BF0C-7B8B-4D6C-9522-319048ABE091@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4bffc351003050823j446ee4e8w4ac35174402dc7a7@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:06 AM, David Roth wrote: > > I found something interesting. I used wget to get the HTML and then fed it > through wkhtmltopdf. The PDF looked OK, then I noticed in the help you can > do wkhtmltopdf website.com website.pdf, so I thought why not let the > program do the whole thing. To my surprise the output looked even better! > When wkhtmltopdf is getting the web page it performs some magic to create > the PDF properly. I would guess that it uses the print stylesheet as opposed to the web stylesheet by default. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidalanroth at gmail.com Fri Mar 5 17:35:45 2010 From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 17:35:45 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] html to PDF conversion? In-Reply-To: <4bffc351003050823j446ee4e8w4ac35174402dc7a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <8f0676b41003050713j20b1caefkfe95b7439a5b1013@mail.gmail.com> <3503BF0C-7B8B-4D6C-9522-319048ABE091@gmail.com> <4bffc351003050823j446ee4e8w4ac35174402dc7a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Good point, Gary! Maybe a recursive call on the wget option would grab all of it then. David Roth On Mar 5, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Gary Mort wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:06 AM, David Roth > wrote: > I found something interesting. I used wget to get the HTML and then > fed it through wkhtmltopdf. The PDF looked OK, then I noticed in the > help you can do wkhtmltopdf website.com website.pdf, so I thought > why not let the program do the whole thing. To my surprise the > output looked even better! When wkhtmltopdf is getting the web page > it performs some magic to create the PDF properly. > > I would guess that it uses the print stylesheet as opposed to the > web stylesheet by default. > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garyamort at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 03:28:02 2010 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 03:28:02 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] dbdeploy Message-ID: <4bffc351003080028o1b94fc24wfcbd59bca7abdc56@mail.gmail.com> Was wondering if anyone here has been using dbdeploy for helping manage database schema's and if so, what you think of it? http://www.davedevelopment.co.uk/2008/04/14/how-to-simple-database-migrations-with-phing-and-dbdeploy/ I'm also thinking that for me...one of the biggest issues I tend to have is with data in your database. Such data can be split into 4 types for me[I'm thinking primarily us using something like Joomla here] Config data that MUST be installed when the application is installed. IE all the module and menu entries that get installed when you install Joomla. Config data that OUGHT to be installed when an sub-application is installed. IE all the module and menu entries that get installed when you install a new set of components. Sample Data that for testing and such. Actual live data. Since space for int's is cheap...my gut feeling would be to use the auto increment id's to help separate this data. IE any id under 1000 is system data that should always be migrated, Any id between 1000 and 2000 is data that goes with an application and probably should be migrated. Now, this next part is trickier. If you are doing work for someone on a shared host, your somewhat limited, so for that I would say that anything above 2000 and below 5000 is sample data, and anything above 5000 is live data. So basically, upon installing an application and it's related data set, go through and for every auto increment id field, change the floor to 5000. It means a little more work when setting up tests and doing dev work to renumber any field entrees which are not live data and bring them down the the appropriate range[first 1000 config data, second 1000 application data, and next 3000 sample data]. Alternatively, if you have the ability to set your auto increment numbering system, then simple set the live system to an even number and all dev systems to an odd number and increment by 2's[so 5000,5002,5004 is the live data, 5001,50003,5005 is the sample data]. To me, this makes it easy when visually looking at the tables to immediately spot what data goes where - you can take a snapshot of a live server if you need to work with the data from it... Just wondering what others do in this regard. [I generally am working as the sole php programmer fixing someone else's code...and making a local snapshot of their environment works great, but then deployment time comes and since some of it includes upgrading/adding modules that install config data/files it can get...difficult to capture all that config data without actually installing the data. So a little more prep work during the setup/dev will yield a smoother transition in the future]. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kahlil_haynes at hotmail.com Mon Mar 8 14:12:36 2010 From: kahlil_haynes at hotmail.com (Kahlil Haynes) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 14:12:36 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you talking about multiple user accounts or is it that using different tables for different data doesn't work for you? i.e., a table for config data, a table for sample data, etc. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garyamort at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 14:30:35 2010 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 14:30:35 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4bffc351003081130w52f9e249y809bd2db805da0ce@mail.gmail.com> I'm talking about when working on large applications made up of components, with a component system built in and a smattering of components included to make a complete "application". For example, Joomla: The Joomla MySQL database contains a table called jos_components where every component installed in the system has(or should have) an entry in this table. It comes with a number of components by default, some of which fall into the category of must have(and if their not there, bad things happen with other components depending on them) and some of which are samples that are frequently replaced(banners and polls). Now, if you clone the system and do work offline, you then run into an issue of deployment. How do you deploy just the changes you made to the tables....[say you installed and configured 2 new components] without updating all of them? Obviously, storing your database schema in your version control system in some rational format can be used to automate deployment of new code. However, I like to go in and look at the tables...and if there is some problem simply coping rows can sometimes help. So in that case, my opinion is that if one had set the auto increment id and ensured the base component id's were all under some number[500]...and any sample components that aren't actually used are in the 500-1000 range, and finally all other components are above 1000 - then it is a simple matter to export the data and import[and of course, if you have multiple developers and gave everyone a different starting increment and offset...ie planning for 3 developers, you might choose to start production data at 1000, and each developer at 1001 through 1003. Set your auto incremement to 6, and you have room for 2 more developers with no one stepping on each others toes]. Now deployment is simplified, as developers can simply migrate their data to the server when ready. By the same token, if for whatever reason the developer is creating data[trying different content layouts around], by ensuring their sample data id's are all set to the sample range, it is simple to setup a build script which will skip inserts for any data that is outside the range of production. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 15:52:05 2010 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 15:52:05 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <4bffc351003081130w52f9e249y809bd2db805da0ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bffc351003081130w52f9e249y809bd2db805da0ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <330532b61003081252k469dfaafw4836acad16f7499f@mail.gmail.com> This is called "smart numbers" or "intelligent numbers" and is generally considered a bad practice. That said, I can't think of a better approach, but have never tried to solve this problem so that's only maybe four or five brain cells. -- Mitch From garyamort at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 18:34:59 2010 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 18:34:59 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <330532b61003081252k469dfaafw4836acad16f7499f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bffc351003081130w52f9e249y809bd2db805da0ce@mail.gmail.com> <330532b61003081252k469dfaafw4836acad16f7499f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4bffc351003081534o600af45h5627a05124f4161a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > This is called "smart numbers" or "intelligent numbers" and is > generally considered a bad practice. > > True, but then so is storing library and configuration files under the web directory[man do I loathe all the empty index.html files just to keep directory browsing out] As long as I am dealing primarily at the low end, shared hosting environment open source world, I'm inclined to stick with simple solutions that work. :-) There actually are a number of ideas for better solutions, but in the end they require some thought on the developers part. Wheras using specific id numbers doesn't require much thought[and setting up increments that we can ignore requires almost none at all]. I think in the end there are a range of practices, and while special numbers can and does turn around and bite you in the but eventually[what happens when you run out of them?] - their good enough for /most/ people. And those who do get bitten by the issue are hopefully making enough money hand over fist to hire programmers from the NYPHP members list. :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From beau at open-source-staffing.com Mon Mar 8 18:38:23 2010 From: beau at open-source-staffing.com (Beau Gould (OSS)) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 18:38:23 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question Message-ID: <5400B70BDDA44A2B8C27F6135DE3088A@EMACHINE> I just filled a couple of PHP roles for one of my best clients and I wanted to send the CEO a thank you for your business gift. I was thinking about a giant basket of candy he could share with the dev team. Something like this: http://snipurl.com/giantcandy I was hoping to get some feedback as to whether this was a good gift or get some other gift suggestions. Thank you, Beau J. Gould ------------------ Open Source Staffing http://www.open-source-staffing.com beau[AT]open-source-staffing.com All jobs posted to Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/beau.gould From ramons at gmx.net Mon Mar 8 19:10:26 2010 From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:10:26 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question In-Reply-To: <5400B70BDDA44A2B8C27F6135DE3088A@EMACHINE> References: <5400B70BDDA44A2B8C27F6135DE3088A@EMACHINE> Message-ID: <4B9591F2.10403@gmx.net> On 3/8/2010 6:38 PM, Beau Gould (OSS) wrote: > I just filled a couple of PHP roles for one of my best clients and I wanted > to send the CEO a thank you for your business gift. I was thinking about a > giant basket of candy he could share with the dev team. Something like > this: http://snipurl.com/giantcandy > > I was hoping to get some feedback as to whether this was a good gift or get > some other gift suggestions. If it is for developers, give them a year supply of donuts and Mountain Dew...... From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 20:33:00 2010 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 20:33:00 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <4bffc351003081534o600af45h5627a05124f4161a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bffc351003081130w52f9e249y809bd2db805da0ce@mail.gmail.com> <330532b61003081252k469dfaafw4836acad16f7499f@mail.gmail.com> <4bffc351003081534o600af45h5627a05124f4161a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <330532b61003081733j2adfdd22m1dd3d6cfc4257f2f@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Gary Mort wrote: > There actually are a number of ideas for better solutions, but in the end > they require some thought on the developers part. ?Wheras using specific id > numbers doesn't require much thought[and setting up?increments?that we can > ignore requires almost none at all]. > I think in the end there are a range of practices, and while special numbers > can and does turn around and bite you in the but eventually[what happens > when you run out of them?] - their good enough for /most/ people. ?And those > who do get bitten by the issue are hopefully making enough money hand over > fist to hire programmers from the NYPHP members list. :-) Yup, and that line of thought is exactly why we've suffered under the loathsome burden of ItemID all these years. -- Mitch From garyamort at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 00:41:47 2010 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 00:41:47 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <330532b61003081733j2adfdd22m1dd3d6cfc4257f2f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bffc351003081130w52f9e249y809bd2db805da0ce@mail.gmail.com> <330532b61003081252k469dfaafw4836acad16f7499f@mail.gmail.com> <4bffc351003081534o600af45h5627a05124f4161a@mail.gmail.com> <330532b61003081733j2adfdd22m1dd3d6cfc4257f2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4bffc351003082141v626e1156tdc7c0b0a004a6e4a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Gary Mort wrote: > > I think in the end there are a range of practices, and while special > numbers > > can and does turn around and bite you in the but eventually[what happens > > when you run out of them?] - their good enough for /most/ people. And > those > > who do get bitten by the issue are hopefully making enough money hand > over > > fist to hire programmers from the NYPHP members list. :-) > > Yup, and that line of thought is exactly why we've suffered under the > loathsome burden of ItemID all these years. > I think it's more that itemID, ID, etc have stood the test of time as the best solution. In the beginning, it was a simple matter of what is the FASTEST comparison one can make - and an integer is pretty dang close to the fast[bitwise comparisons being even better] - and for understandability, integers are easier to deal with. It allowed one to store relational data in the smallest possible value. As processor speed increases, and disk space becomes dirt cheap, it is no longer neccessary to store all these keys to save space and processing power. But by the same token, it costs virtually nothing more to store an integer ID AND data that actually has semantic value[am I using that term correctly?]. For example, I can have a user table: Userid, Username, Firstname, Lastname, EmailAddress, etc And then a forum posting table, and for each post in the old days, I would store userid..... while using a combo of username, firstname, lastname, emailAddress as my key might seem more intuitive.... Why? We know one of those is going to change over the lifetime of a system. If I want to store that data with the post to make things faster...well, I can go ahead and do that AND store the userid. And then I can decide which takes precedence... For example, maybe I want to show the username of the person at the time they posted, but if you go to their profile I will use the id to link to it, and show their current name. While you can argue that it costs nothing to use the other data for a key due to increased processing and disk space...I would argue it costs nothing to include that other data AND a key field. Furthermore, no matter how hard one tries, the identifying link is going to be shown to a user in some manner at some point...in the url, in a profile page, in a forum posting, SOMEWHERE there will be the identifier shown to them. And sure as men suck, there is going to be some woman getting out of a bad relationship, who has changed her name after the divorce and she is going to be really really pissed to have that reminder staring her in the face. And then the programmer has to go and track down some way to change the data not only currently, but retroactively... And then something crashes...and you restore the backup tapes...from 6 months ago because no one was checking the recovery process. And you have to figure out how to match up all the data you retconned on the live system that you now recovered against the original data from 6 months ago. All data changes, integer key data is the only way to keep things simple[I love the 'internet' solution for XML, where you namespace things based on your domain....and then 3 years later the company has changed hands, the domain went to someone else...and you have this domain for some porn site in your code...yick] And by the same token that you can store more textual data in a row, you can also store larger integers so you can never run out of them. Then there are spreadsheets... spreadsheets never ever die.... and business people love them. So try explaining to them why they have to have a key identifier that is 300 characters long in order to match spreadsheet A to spreadsheet B. No, I see no reason to kill the humble ID. Supplement it with extra data, sure. You can normalize your data to an extreme and still duplicate it in every table if you wish. Dealing with ID's can be painful from time to time for developers and admins - but dealing with semantic data as a key is painful from time to time for users. And I am firmly in the camp of choosing to make life harder for a few geeks who can handle it - then the end users who just won't get why it's not a trivial matter to change their last name on every report ever filed in the system because they fell in love and got married... -Gary :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Tue Mar 9 01:39:44 2010 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 01:39:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <4bffc351003082141v626e1156tdc7c0b0a004a6e4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2010, Gary Mort wrote: > In the beginning, it was a simple matter of what is the FASTEST comparison > one can make - and an integer is pretty dang close to the fast[bitwise > comparisons being even better] Not necessarily, bit operations may generate more machine code instructions than a straight integer comparison would and therefore more clock cycles :-) -- Aj. From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 08:19:13 2010 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:19:13 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: <4bffc351003082141v626e1156tdc7c0b0a004a6e4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <330532b61003090519o1fe242d2k3ef99d7a39adb9b3@mail.gmail.com> Disk space and memory truly were expensive...in the 90s. Joomla was born in 2000 though. Here's a (hopefully) interesting little story. I once got into a huge, heated debate with a consultant about data modeling. His argument was that random incrementing integers were bad design and negated the benefits of primary keys. His biggest beef was that your table already had a primary key - even if it was a composite key - and that slapping an integer on there would only cause you pain in the long run. This pain sounds a LOT like the data migration issues everyone has with all these random, incrementing integers as primary keys :-) For the record, the conversation was at ClassMates.Com waaaaaay back around 1997. I thought the guy was a total loon. However the more I think about it, the more I realize he was just ahead of his time. Back then we still needed those integers for all the bazillion JOIN operations across tables with more than fifty million rows each... As everyone starts to denormalize their data models however, this will become a bigger and bigger headache, as all your logic is tied to those numbers when all that is really important to YOU is the post's title, the user's username, component's name, etc. -- Mitch From ramons at gmx.net Tue Mar 9 08:39:05 2010 From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:39:05 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <330532b61003090519o1fe242d2k3ef99d7a39adb9b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bffc351003082141v626e1156tdc7c0b0a004a6e4a@mail.gmail.com> <330532b61003090519o1fe242d2k3ef99d7a39adb9b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B964F79.7020004@gmx.net> On 3/9/2010 8:19 AM, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > For the record, the conversation was at ClassMates.Com waaaaaay back > around 1997. I thought the guy was a total loon. However the more I > think about it, the more I realize he was just ahead of his time. Back > then we still needed those integers for all the bazillion JOIN > operations across tables with more than fifty million rows each... As > everyone starts to denormalize their data models however, this will > become a bigger and bigger headache, as all your logic is tied to > those numbers when all that is really important to YOU is the post's > title, the user's username, component's name, etc. So full normalization is no longer the non plus ultra of database design? From david at davidmintz.org Tue Mar 9 09:42:42 2010 From: david at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:42:42 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? Message-ID: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> Here's a question I know you're all gonna love. I'm considering writing a small desktop GUI app for my psychotherapist wife to manage her patient records. It will run on Linux but I guess it would be good if it's cross-platform. I think sqlite would be a good choice for the backend. What's a good programming language for the front? It looks like Python is a popular choice for this kind of scenario. I happen to speak PHP, Java (went to the trouble of getting Sun-certified in 2006 but have rarely used the language), and Perl (though I was never a black belt and haven't used it much for years). This would provide an excuse to learn another language. -- Support real health care reform: http://phimg.org/ -- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mutazmusa at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 09:48:18 2010 From: mutazmusa at gmail.com (Mutaz Musa) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:48:18 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <602c8ac1003090648l1ed3ae29uc0916079b47a1743@mail.gmail.com> I would personally go with wxPython for this sort of task. I've used phpgtk in the past but found it cumbersome and awkward. If she'll only be using it on a windows box then VB is as good a choice as any. Best, Mutaz On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:42 AM, David Mintz wrote: > Here's a question I know you're all gonna love. > > I'm considering writing a small desktop GUI app for my psychotherapist wife > to manage her patient records. It will run on Linux but I guess it would be > good if it's cross-platform. I think sqlite would be a good choice for the > backend. What's a good programming language for the front? It looks like > Python is a popular choice for this kind of scenario. > > I happen to speak PHP, Java (went to the trouble of getting Sun-certified > in 2006 but have rarely used the language), and Perl (though I was never a > black belt and haven't used it much for years). This would provide an excuse > to learn another language. > > -- > Support real health care reform: > http://phimg.org/ > > -- > David Mintz > http://davidmintz.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott at crisscott.com Tue Mar 9 09:49:18 2010 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:49:18 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B965FEE.6070801@crisscott.com> David Mintz wrote: > Here's a question I know you're all gonna love. > > I'm considering writing a small desktop GUI app for my psychotherapist wife > to manage her patient records. It will run on Linux but I guess it would be > good if it's cross-platform. I think sqlite would be a good choice for the > backend. What's a good programming language for the front? It looks like > Python is a popular choice for this kind of scenario. > > I happen to speak PHP, Java (went to the trouble of getting Sun-certified in > 2006 but have rarely used the language), and Perl (though I was never a > black belt and haven't used it much for years). This would provide an excuse > to learn another language. You can't ask this question on a PHP list without at least considering PHP-GTK. It is cross-platform and uses PHP syntax. The GTK component just adds some extra classes that are used for the GUI. I can recommend a book on the topic if you'd like :) -- Scott Mattocks From cbaltatescu at greenvision.ro Tue Mar 9 09:50:03 2010 From: cbaltatescu at greenvision.ro (Cristian Baltatescu) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:50:03 +0200 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <422973431003090650m19182734hea93cb0246216033@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 4:42 PM, David Mintz wrote: > Here's a question I know you're all gonna love. > > I'm considering writing a small desktop GUI app for my psychotherapist wife > to manage her patient records. It will run on Linux but I guess it would be > good if it's cross-platform. I think sqlite would be a good choice for the > backend. What's a good programming language for the front? It looks like > Python is a popular choice for this kind of scenario. > > Qt4 -- Numai bine, Cristian http://www.cristianbaltatescu.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcampbell1 at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 10:28:34 2010 From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:28:34 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8f0676b41003090728m5135ef0bk672a23d6d2a2f9bd@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:42 AM, David Mintz wrote: > I'm considering writing a small desktop GUI app for my psychotherapist wife > to manage her patient records. It will run on Linux but I guess it would be > good if it's cross-platform. Have you considered Adobe AIR + HTML + Javascript? From edwardpotter at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 10:32:27 2010 From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (Edward Potter) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:32:27 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <4B964F79.7020004@gmx.net> References: <4bffc351003082141v626e1156tdc7c0b0a004a6e4a@mail.gmail.com> <330532b61003090519o1fe242d2k3ef99d7a39adb9b3@mail.gmail.com> <4B964F79.7020004@gmx.net> Message-ID: So full normalization is no longer the non plus ultra of database design? __________________________________ Once the cost of everything went zero, that was pretty much the end of 'normalization' Just throw everything now into a blob of ooze. Get to stuff u need, forget everything else. Once u leaped into OO, organic models come into play. Right, like everything we were taught is pretty much irrelevant now: just thow it into into the ooze. WTF? Who cares? Why waste the energy? Just toss it into the cloud. Yipes! ;-) I guess being up on Core Data is a required skill. That framework is insanly great. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 9, 2010, at 8:39 AM, David Krings wrote: > So full normalization is no longer the non plus ultra of database > design? > ___________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardpotter at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 10:49:47 2010 From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (Edward Potter) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:49:47 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <8f0676b41003090728m5135ef0bk672a23d6d2a2f9bd@mail.gmail.com> References: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> <8f0676b41003090728m5135ef0bk672a23d6d2a2f9bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <83D45232-498C-4020-BF22-2F7A54CF43FA@gmail.com> Perfect answer. In the old days I be ranting about scripting languages, now it's WTF? We are reaching I guess officially web 3.0 At this point it's all GUI/js/xml driven. Make It look awesome. And then make it look even MORE awesome on the iPad. ;-) Sent from my iPhone On Mar 9, 2010, at 10:28 AM, John Campbell wrote: > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:42 AM, David Mintz > wrote: >> I'm considering writing a small desktop GUI app for my >> psychotherapist wife >> to manage her patient records. It will run on Linux but I guess it >> would be >> good if it's cross-platform. > > Have you considered Adobe AIR + HTML + Javascript? > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From ajai at bitblit.net Tue Mar 9 11:43:39 2010 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:43:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 2010, David Mintz wrote: > I'm considering writing a small desktop GUI app for my psychotherapist wife > to manage her patient records. It will run on Linux but I guess it would be > good if it's cross-platform. I think sqlite would be a good choice for the > backend. What's a good programming language for the front? It looks like > Python is a popular choice for this kind of scenario. I would also pick Qt since it runs on many many platforms and has bindings for several languages (C++, C#, Python, Ada, Pascal (!), Perl, PHP, Ruby). -- Aj. From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 11:50:03 2010 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:50:03 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: <4bffc351003082141v626e1156tdc7c0b0a004a6e4a@mail.gmail.com> <330532b61003090519o1fe242d2k3ef99d7a39adb9b3@mail.gmail.com> <4B964F79.7020004@gmx.net> Message-ID: <330532b61003090850h5fdab0dbja8f1532974f4186b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Edward Potter wrote: > So full normalization is no longer the non plus ultra of database design? > __________________________________ > Once the cost of everything went zero, that was pretty much the end of > 'normalization' > ?Just throw everything now into a blob of ooze. ?Get to stuff u need, forget > everything else. ?Once u leaped into OO, organic models come into play. > Right, like everything we were taught is pretty much irrelevant now: just > thow it into into the ooze. ?WTF? Who cares? Why waste the energy? Just toss > it into the cloud. > Yipes! ;-) > I guess being up on Core Data is a required skill. That framework is insanly > great. Yeah, those bozos at Facebook, LinkedIn, Yahoo, and Google have no idea what they are talking about. 3rd normal form was good for our dads, and it's good for us too! Seriously though: Take whatever popular PHP CMS you might have laying around, and consider what it would take to migrate content from one existing website to another website that also already has its own content... I'm willing to bet all that data is "unique" to a bunch of incrementally selected, absolutely meaningless integers. Both databases are certain to have collisions with all those auto_increment columns. If the design had instead stuck to uniqueness (hey, sounds a lot like what a Primary Key is!) then you would only have collisions with content having the same title, for example. But instead, you're certain to have an article with an id of 1 on both systems (despite being completely different content), same goes for id of 2, 3, 4, and so on... In the end you have to provide logic to your export/import process that first pulls all of these meaningless pseudo-PKs and inserts each content item one at a time, and then providing the necessary linkage to menus, categories, etc. because they also relied on a bunch of totally nonrelated, pseudo-PKs. Go ahead and dismiss my points if you want - this point is a very valid one, one that I initially dismissed as well. Looks like you're making the same mistake :^P -- Mitch From paul at devonianfarm.com Tue Mar 9 11:56:56 2010 From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul A Houle) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 11:56:56 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B967DD8.1080806@devonianfarm.com> David Mintz wrote: > Here's a question I know you're all gonna love. > > I'm considering writing a small desktop GUI app for my psychotherapist > wife to manage her patient records. It will run on Linux but I guess > it would be good if it's cross-platform. I think sqlite would be a > good choice for the backend. What's a good programming language for > the front? It looks like Python is a popular choice for this kind of > scenario. > I'd question the wisdom of creating a GUI app for this. Us PHPers build web-based apps for this sort of business application all the time. This kind of app can be deployed on a distant web server via https (which means she can access the app from anywhere she goes) or it can be deployed to a machine in her office (behind the firewall) running Apache or IIS. Compatibility with Linux, Mac, Windows and maybe even things like iPads is no problem. Odds are you're going to wind up with a better UI in a web app than in a desktop app, especially if it's the first desktop app you've written in years. In my mind, the niche for desktop apps is small and always shrinking: really, they only make sense for cases where a web app can't do the job. When you ~do~ want to make a desktop app, the purpose is to make something really awesome that pushes the edges of the platform you're running on, which means the native widget set. Cross-platform GUI toolkit have a special role for programmer's tools (Eclipse, jEdit) because a lot of us like to take our toolset around, but other than that, I think they serve a disappearing market. From garyamort at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 13:47:51 2010 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 13:47:51 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <330532b61003090850h5fdab0dbja8f1532974f4186b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bffc351003082141v626e1156tdc7c0b0a004a6e4a@mail.gmail.com> <330532b61003090519o1fe242d2k3ef99d7a39adb9b3@mail.gmail.com> <4B964F79.7020004@gmx.net> <330532b61003090850h5fdab0dbja8f1532974f4186b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4bffc351003091047s659c24e3j833b40cc28416502@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Mitch Pirtle wr > > Seriously though: Take whatever popular PHP CMS you might have laying > around, and consider what it would take to migrate content from one > existing website to another website that also already has its own > content... I'm willing to bet all that data is "unique" to a bunch of > incrementally selected, absolutely meaningless integers. > Content doesn't worry me. What gives me fits are configurations. Content is easy to migrate, add 100 or 1000 to all the id fields of the source data, set a new auto-increment number on the target database to be higher than the highest number. Export, import, call it a day. But when you have a bunch of keyword lookup fields and have tied all THAT together by id numbers...that can get...interesting. Especially when your mapping one set of string data to another and half of them don't directly correlate. Now there I can see a good argument to forgetting the id mapping to the keyword table. Instead, you build the a keyword table with just the keywords themselves. It means a little more work when you have to change a keyword because company A changed their name to Z... so every record with an A in it has to be updated[or maybe you cheat and include a second column in your keyword table, "formerly known as" - and whenever a record is retrieved that does not have a match in the parent table, you go out and grab the parent... That works well for speedier migration/changing. It runs into problems when you have 2 keywords that where reworded a number of times and at different points in time they both shared the same label. It also means a lot more work in documenting your database. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vtbludgeon at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 15:09:47 2010 From: vtbludgeon at gmail.com (David Mintz) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 15:09:47 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <4B967DD8.1080806@devonianfarm.com> References: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> <4B967DD8.1080806@devonianfarm.com> Message-ID: <721f1cc51003091209v6c46daa0v25770ee14889e717@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the replies. @Scott: I wondered about PHP+Gtk, and will give it a look. Is your book pretty much up-to-date? As for Adobe AIR etc, truth to tell I don't really even know what it is though I've heard of it. I'll do some reading. Qt, same answer. Not familiar with it though I've certainly seen the term thrown around. As for doing it as a webapp with https, that would be the easiest approach and I've considered it. I still don't think I want to even get into storing her sensitive data on a shared server or similar, so it would be stored on a home network... but ours is a primitive home office, having one Ubuntu laptop and one dual-boot desktop on which the kids are often running Windoze for the sake of their games, but the AMP stack would be on Linux, so if that box is the server and she wants to use this hypothetical app from the laptop... bla bla sorry to bore you. OTOH if it is a self-contained standalone kind of thing and she wants to go from machine to machine... ...maybe I will go back to the webapp approach. Probably with belt plus suspenders, i.e., run inside our firewall AND https. Thanks again. -- Support real health care reform: http://phimg.org/ -- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott at crisscott.com Tue Mar 9 15:18:52 2010 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:18:52 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <721f1cc51003091209v6c46daa0v25770ee14889e717@mail.gmail.com> References: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> <4B967DD8.1080806@devonianfarm.com> <721f1cc51003091209v6c46daa0v25770ee14889e717@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B96AD2C.1060502@crisscott.com> David Mintz wrote: > Thanks for the replies. > > @Scott: I wondered about PHP+Gtk, and will give it a look. Is your book > pretty much up-to-date? Not really. It is a few years old. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't recommend spending money on it unless you are going to continue writing PHP-GTK apps. The IRC room on freenode is just as helpful and costs less. From cbaltatescu at greenvision.ro Tue Mar 9 15:49:16 2010 From: cbaltatescu at greenvision.ro (Cristian Baltatescu) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 22:49:16 +0200 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <721f1cc51003091209v6c46daa0v25770ee14889e717@mail.gmail.com> References: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> <4B967DD8.1080806@devonianfarm.com> <721f1cc51003091209v6c46daa0v25770ee14889e717@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <422973431003091249o376612adjbd5066c09dd5a73a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:09 PM, David Mintz wrote: > Thanks for the replies. > > @Scott: I wondered about PHP+Gtk, and will give it a look. Is your book > pretty much up-to-date? > > As for Adobe AIR etc, truth to tell I don't really even know what it is > though I've heard of it. I'll do some reading. Qt, same answer. Not familiar > with it though I've certainly seen the term thrown around. > > As for doing it as a webapp with https, that would be the easiest approach > and I've considered it. I still don't think I want to even get into storing > her sensitive data on a shared server or similar, so it would be stored on a > home network... but ours is a primitive home office, having one Ubuntu > laptop and one dual-boot desktop on which the kids are often running Windoze > for the sake of their games, but the AMP stack would be on Linux, so if that > box is the server and she wants to use this hypothetical app from the > laptop... bla bla sorry to bore you. OTOH if it is a self-contained > standalone kind of thing and she wants to go from machine to machine... > > ...maybe I will go back to the webapp approach. Probably with belt plus > suspenders, i.e., run inside our firewall AND https. > > Thanks again. > > > -- > Support real health care reform: > http://phimg.org/ > > -- > David Mintz > http://davidmintz.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > Qt is C++, for the mainstream platforms (plus mobile), should deploy as easily for any of those (for the kind of project you mentioned). It's also the kind of stuff KDE is built upon and lately some of nokia's stuff. But yeah, why not a web app? I guess people still feel "real", desktop apps are better. -- Numai bine, Cristian http://www.cristianbaltatescu.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leam at reuel.net Tue Mar 9 19:21:58 2010 From: leam at reuel.net (Leam Hall) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:21:58 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] good language for small GUI app? In-Reply-To: <422973431003091249o376612adjbd5066c09dd5a73a@mail.gmail.com> References: <721f1cc51003090642j6db11b07sd52b8eef945242ff@mail.gmail.com> <4B967DD8.1080806@devonianfarm.com> <721f1cc51003091209v6c46daa0v25770ee14889e717@mail.gmail.com> <422973431003091249o376612adjbd5066c09dd5a73a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B96E626.3040801@reuel.net> A web app will allow for growth and backups. You separate the GUI from the app and let yourself focus on just the business logic. That also means she can upgrade or change platforms, or have her main computer down for service, and still get work done. Leam From mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 14 16:04:23 2010 From: mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com (Michele Waldman) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:04:23 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] html to PDF conversion? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, it took me so long to post. Don't have time to look at the rest of the responses here, I think it's a similar issue, check out the thread for: RE: [nycphp-talk] FormFeed in October '09. Jane Doe > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of David Roth > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:07 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: [nycphp-talk] html to PDF conversion? > > The solution doesn't have to be written in PHP, but it's fine if it is > as long as it works. > > I'm looking for a command-line way to convert HTML to a PDF on CentOS > 5.4, because I need to do this in a shell script to create the webpage > as a .PDF file. > > I've looked at xhtml2pdf written in Python, but CentOS 5.4 is still > running Python 2.4 and the best I can tell it needs Python 2.5 or > later cause I couldn't get it to work. > > I also tried PDF-FromHTML-0.31 which is written in PERL, but requires > HTML::TIDY which seems to be unavailable currently. > > Thanks in advance for any advice. If this is now considered trivial to > do in PHP and I've just not stumbled across it yet, please enlighten me. > > David Roth > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 14 16:17:29 2010 From: mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com (Jane Doe) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:17:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question In-Reply-To: <5400B70BDDA44A2B8C27F6135DE3088A@EMACHINE> Message-ID: <03.37.01194.2544D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Send him flowers. Jane Doe > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of Beau Gould (OSS) > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:38 PM > To: talk at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > I just filled a couple of PHP roles for one of my best clients and I > wanted > to send the CEO a thank you for your business gift. I was thinking about a > giant basket of candy he could share with the dev team. Something like > this: http://snipurl.com/giantcandy > > I was hoping to get some feedback as to whether this was a good gift or > get > some other gift suggestions. > > Thank you, > Beau J. Gould > ------------------ > Open Source Staffing > http://www.open-source-staffing.com > beau[AT]open-source-staffing.com > > All jobs posted to Facebook: > http://www.facebook.com/beau.gould > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com Sun Mar 14 16:46:56 2010 From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina Anderson) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:46:56 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question Message-ID: <1268599616.15717@coral.he.net> > Send him flowers. > > Jane Doe > Nice seats for a baseball game next month always a good spring-appropriate business gift as well :) ------------------- Kristina Anderson PHP/LAMP Application Development "Building a Better Tomorrow, One Line of Code at a Time" 646 247 4987 From mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 14 18:15:51 2010 From: mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com (mmw) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:15:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question In-Reply-To: <1268599616.15717@coral.he.net> Message-ID: <1E.93.01839.0106D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> How about Broadway tickets? The ballet? Symphony or Opera if he likes sleeping? Jane Doe > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of Kristina Anderson > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:47 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > > > > Send him flowers. > > > > Jane Doe > > > > Nice seats for a baseball game next month always a good > spring-appropriate business gift as well :) > > ------------------- > Kristina Anderson > PHP/LAMP Application Development > "Building a Better Tomorrow, One Line of Code at a Time" > 646 247 4987 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 14 18:18:24 2010 From: mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com (mmw) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:18:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question In-Reply-To: <1E.93.01839.0106D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <90.35.01839.9A06D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Plus Broadway is easier to get to being in town and all. Jane Doe > > How about Broadway tickets? The ballet? Symphony or Opera if he likes > sleeping? > > Jane Doe > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > On Behalf Of Kristina Anderson > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:47 PM > > To: NYPHP Talk > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > > > > > > > > Send him flowers. > > > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > Nice seats for a baseball game next month always a good > > spring-appropriate business gift as well :) > > > > ------------------- > > Kristina Anderson > > PHP/LAMP Application Development > > "Building a Better Tomorrow, One Line of Code at a Time" > > 646 247 4987 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 14 18:52:13 2010 From: mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com (mmw) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:52:13 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question In-Reply-To: <90.35.01839.9A06D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <7E.3A.01194.5986D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Best would be dinner theater. I don't know what's playing at the triad right now. That way he can get off work and jet up town for dinner and entertainment. It can actually happen on a work day, in case he wanted to hang out with the family and relax on the weekend instead of dealing with traffic in the outer boroughs. Jane Doe > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of mmw > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:18 PM > To: 'NYPHP Talk' > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > Plus Broadway is easier to get to being in town and all. > > Jane Doe > > > > > How about Broadway tickets? The ballet? Symphony or Opera if he likes > > sleeping? > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk- > bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > > On Behalf Of Kristina Anderson > > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:47 PM > > > To: NYPHP Talk > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send him flowers. > > > > > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > > > > Nice seats for a baseball game next month always a good > > > spring-appropriate business gift as well :) > > > > > > ------------------- > > > Kristina Anderson > > > PHP/LAMP Application Development > > > "Building a Better Tomorrow, One Line of Code at a Time" > > > 646 247 4987 > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 14 19:06:32 2010 From: mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com (mmw) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:06:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question In-Reply-To: <7E.3A.01194.5986D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: You could send the person to a modern dance performance. That might be a nice change of pace. Who ever does that? I was a sign for the Paul Taylor Company the other day. Rings a bell. You could try the Graham Company. Maybe, see what's going on with Alvin Ailey. Check the Village Voice for local dance performances. Baryshnikov can be good for a laugh. (He did a comedic piece once. I think.) Maybe, he's still around. Plenty to see in Manhattan. Jane Doe > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of mmw > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:52 PM > To: 'NYPHP Talk' > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > Best would be dinner theater. I don't know what's playing at the triad > right now. > > That way he can get off work and jet up town for dinner and entertainment. > > It can actually happen on a work day, in case he wanted to hang out with > the > family and relax on the weekend instead of dealing with traffic in the > outer > boroughs. > > Jane Doe > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > On Behalf Of mmw > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:18 PM > > To: 'NYPHP Talk' > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > > > Plus Broadway is easier to get to being in town and all. > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > > How about Broadway tickets? The ballet? Symphony or Opera if he > likes > > > sleeping? > > > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk- > > bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > > > On Behalf Of Kristina Anderson > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:47 PM > > > > To: NYPHP Talk > > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send him flowers. > > > > > > > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice seats for a baseball game next month always a good > > > > spring-appropriate business gift as well :) > > > > > > > > ------------------- > > > > Kristina Anderson > > > > PHP/LAMP Application Development > > > > "Building a Better Tomorrow, One Line of Code at a Time" > > > > 646 247 4987 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 14 19:08:37 2010 From: mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com (mmw) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:08:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question In-Reply-To: <7E.3A.01194.5986D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <06.B3.01839.E6C6D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> But, I'm thinking like a girl. If I was thinking like a guy, I might have other ideas. Jane Doe > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of mmw > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:52 PM > To: 'NYPHP Talk' > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > Best would be dinner theater. I don't know what's playing at the triad > right now. > > That way he can get off work and jet up town for dinner and entertainment. > > It can actually happen on a work day, in case he wanted to hang out with > the > family and relax on the weekend instead of dealing with traffic in the > outer > boroughs. > > Jane Doe > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > On Behalf Of mmw > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:18 PM > > To: 'NYPHP Talk' > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > > > Plus Broadway is easier to get to being in town and all. > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > > How about Broadway tickets? The ballet? Symphony or Opera if he > likes > > > sleeping? > > > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk- > > bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > > > On Behalf Of Kristina Anderson > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:47 PM > > > > To: NYPHP Talk > > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send him flowers. > > > > > > > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice seats for a baseball game next month always a good > > > > spring-appropriate business gift as well :) > > > > > > > > ------------------- > > > > Kristina Anderson > > > > PHP/LAMP Application Development > > > > "Building a Better Tomorrow, One Line of Code at a Time" > > > > 646 247 4987 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 14 20:25:15 2010 From: mmwaldman at nyc.rr.com (mmw) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:25:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question In-Reply-To: <06.B3.01839.E6C6D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <89.2C.29604.46E7D9B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> If anyone wants to buy me a present, any of my recommendations would be nice. Jane Doe > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of mmw > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:09 PM > To: 'NYPHP Talk' > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > But, I'm thinking like a girl. > > If I was thinking like a guy, I might have other ideas. > > Jane Doe > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > On Behalf Of mmw > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:52 PM > > To: 'NYPHP Talk' > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > > > Best would be dinner theater. I don't know what's playing at the triad > > right now. > > > > That way he can get off work and jet up town for dinner and > entertainment. > > > > It can actually happen on a work day, in case he wanted to hang out with > > the > > family and relax on the weekend instead of dealing with traffic in the > > outer > > boroughs. > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk- > bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > > On Behalf Of mmw > > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:18 PM > > > To: 'NYPHP Talk' > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > > > > > Plus Broadway is easier to get to being in town and all. > > > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > > > > > How about Broadway tickets? The ballet? Symphony or Opera if he > > likes > > > > sleeping? > > > > > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk- > > > bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > > > > On Behalf Of Kristina Anderson > > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:47 PM > > > > > To: NYPHP Talk > > > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Non technical question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send him flowers. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jane Doe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice seats for a baseball game next month always a good > > > > > spring-appropriate business gift as well :) > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > > > > > Kristina Anderson > > > > > PHP/LAMP Application Development > > > > > "Building a Better Tomorrow, One Line of Code at a Time" > > > > > 646 247 4987 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > > > > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation From compustretch at gmail.com Mon Mar 15 16:08:30 2010 From: compustretch at gmail.com (forest mars) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:08:30 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] "Drupal makes me hAPI" talk: NYLUG 3/17 @ 6:30PM by Forest Mars and Jingsheng Wang Message-ID: This Drupal to NYLUG on Wednesday and may be of interest to any NY PHPers; given the audience it will be tailored it more to the admin & performance side, but will cover a lot of ground about Drupal. All are welcome, but RSVP through is required for IBM access: http://nylug.org/rsvp Forest Mars and Jingsheng Wang - on - Drupal makes me hAPI: open source social publishing architecture Drupal is open source social publishing software that empowers individuals, teams, and communities to easily publish, manage and organize a wide variety of content on a website as well as build more complex web applications. Tens of thousands of people and organizations have used Drupal to power scores of different types of web sites, including community web portals, corporate web sites, social networking sites, personal web sites or blogs, and much more. Drupal's roots extend deep into the Linux and Open Source communities. Drupal had its "coming out" at the 2005 FOSDEM conference in Brussels and early iterations were mainly developed on Linux. This talk will cover the Drupal framework with an emphasis on architecture and programming patterns while touching on a number of other topics such as performance tuning and hosting integration as well as considering the underlying reasons for Drupal's wide-ranging success, all served up with a healthy smathering of awesome sauce. The presentation will also include a short real world case study of a Drupal SaaS implementation "the BeerCloud" (an Android and iPhone application which uses Drupal as a backend) About Forest Mars & Jingsheng Wang: Forest Mars is a Network Architect and Drupal Developer who presents on a variety of topics concerning the Future of Media including Open Source models, trusted network protocols, and web video broadcasting. Coming from a background in Cybernetics and Information Theory, Forest Mars is known for his work as the architect of New York's first WiFi Internet Service Provider, the "Two Rooms" free Internet cafe located in Manhattan's East Village, and "Yellow Hat" a Debian based Linux distro with Tibetan language support. He is currently serves as a board member of the Community Free Software Group and Unigroup of New York. Jingsheng Wang is a Drupal Developer, Android Developer and Reverse Engineer at GreatBrewers.com . More Information: * Drupal http://drupal.org/ * Drupal + Services Module + Beer = BeerCloud on Android and iPhone http://drupal.org/node/659772 * Community Free Software Group http://cfsg.org Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:30 PM - 8:00 PM IBM 590 Madison Ave, 12th Floor *** RSVP Closes at 4:30 PM the day of the meeting (sharp!) *** Swag (Give Away): During/after the meeting... unusually terrific swag may be given away. Stammtisch: After the meeting ... You may wish to join up with other NYLUGgers for drinks and pub food. This month we'll be over at TGI Friday's (677 Lexington and 56th Street, Second floor, Northeast corner), but we are also evaluating other options for the future and welcome your suggestions. http://nylug.org/tgifridays -- "In theory, theory and practice are exactly the same. In practice, they're completely different." ------------------------------------------------------------------ This email is: [ ] private: do not forward [ x ] o.k. to forward [ x ] o.k. to blog [ ] ask first -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBRkjTLDbz7LySoccvEQJDcQCguZZj4M4kOVOlOX4CtbgR0rppsdovAjra 3RRXIlkdzuYI0YJz4WyvKlTn =MLhk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------------------------------ The New TLDs are Here! Switch to Name.Space: http://namespace.org/switch Support new domains & keep free media free! Register yours today! https://secure.name-space.com/registry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garyamort at gmail.com Mon Mar 15 17:35:28 2010 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:35:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] "Drupal makes me hAPI" talk: NYLUG 3/17 @ 6:30PM by Forest Mars and Jingsheng Wang In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4bffc351003151435x538135dbvaedb92a9ab81b180@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:08 PM, forest mars wrote: > Jingsheng Wang is a ....Reverse > Engineer at GreatBrewers.com Ooo, does that mean he gets to experiment in order to reverse engineer beer ingredients? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From consult at covenantedesign.com Wed Mar 17 19:45:40 2010 From: consult at covenantedesign.com (CED) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fastest PHP Writing In-Reply-To: <4bffc351003151435x538135dbvaedb92a9ab81b180@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bffc351003151435x538135dbvaedb92a9ab81b180@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> List, I am doing some tests on PHP write speeds and concurrency and was wondering if anyone has done the same? I am currently testing - fopen('filethingy', 'a') passthru() exec() `echo "stuff" >> filethingy.txt` Basically I am trying to find the most incredibly fast way to append to a file, and support a massive potential concurrency (think huge logging system for an ISP etc.). -Ed From ioplex at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 21:05:11 2010 From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:05:11 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fastest PHP Writing In-Reply-To: <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> References: <4bffc351003151435x538135dbvaedb92a9ab81b180@mail.gmail.com> <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> Message-ID: <78c6bd861003171805h7b3b2a5i5d4b96dc3e9c7a6e@mail.gmail.com> Hi Ed, I very much doubt exec-ing and then backticking (which is forks and then execs again) would achieve the desired result. One thing that might, would be to write a long-lived daemon that opens the file(s) being appended to and waits for data on a named pipe. PHP callers can just open the pipe, write data to it, close and move on. The deamon would read the data and write it to the desired descriptor. Meanwhile the calling PHP process is probably off doing other things by then. Mike -- Michael B Allen PHP Active Directory Integration http://www.ioplex.com/plexcel.html On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:45 PM, CED wrote: > List, > > I am doing some tests on PHP write speeds and concurrency and was wondering > if anyone has done the same? > > I am currently testing - > ? fopen('filethingy', 'a') > ? passthru() > ? exec() > ? `echo "stuff" >> filethingy.txt` > > Basically I am trying to find the most incredibly fast way to append to a > file, and support a massive potential concurrency (think huge logging system > for an ISP etc.). > > -Ed > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > From justin at justinhileman.info Wed Mar 17 21:08:40 2010 From: justin at justinhileman.info (justin) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:08:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fastest PHP Writing In-Reply-To: <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> References: <4bffc351003151435x538135dbvaedb92a9ab81b180@mail.gmail.com> <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> Message-ID: <4BA17D18.9070607@justinhileman.info> On 3/17/10 7:45 PM, CED wrote: > I am doing some tests on PHP write speeds and concurrency and was > wondering if anyone has done the same? > Basically I am trying to find the most incredibly fast way to append > to a file, and support a massive potential concurrency (think huge > logging system for an ISP etc.). I know this is a board full of developers who love their hammers, but this job looks like it's not a nail. I'd try a Python or Perl daemon if you're looking for something incredibly fast. -- justin http://justinhileman.com From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 21:08:47 2010 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:08:47 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fastest PHP Writing In-Reply-To: <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> References: <4bffc351003151435x538135dbvaedb92a9ab81b180@mail.gmail.com> <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> Message-ID: <330532b61003171808g7f199c26vbefe2aa514fb9f4b@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:45 PM, CED wrote: > Basically I am trying to find the most incredibly fast way to append to a > file, and support a massive potential concurrency (think huge logging system > for an ISP etc.). Why not look into syslog-ng or mongodb's gridfs and/or capped collections? Just wondering if you've checked these to avoid reimplementing the wheel :-) -- Mitch From drydell at optonline.net Wed Mar 17 21:34:17 2010 From: drydell at optonline.net (drydell at optonline.net) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 01:34:17 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fastest PHP Writing In-Reply-To: <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> References: <4bffc351003151435x538135dbvaedb92a9ab81b180@mail.gmail.com> <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> Message-ID: whenever I need efficient high concurrency writes, I use error_log()...----- Original Message -----From: CED Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:46 pmSubject: [nycphp-talk] Fastest PHP WritingTo: NYPHP Talk > List,> > I am doing some tests on PHP write speeds and concurrency and > was > wondering if anyone has done the same?> > I am currently testing -> fopen('filethingy', 'a')> passthru()> exec()> `echo "stuff" >> filethingy.txt`> > Basically I am trying to find the most incredibly fast way to > append to > a file, and support a massive potential concurrency (think huge > logging > system for an ISP etc.).> > -Ed> > _______________________________________________> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk> > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From consult at covenantedesign.com Wed Mar 17 21:44:31 2010 From: consult at covenantedesign.com (CED) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:44:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fastest PHP Writing In-Reply-To: <330532b61003171808g7f199c26vbefe2aa514fb9f4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bffc351003151435x538135dbvaedb92a9ab81b180@mail.gmail.com> <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> <330532b61003171808g7f199c26vbefe2aa514fb9f4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BA1857F.3030008@covenantedesign.com> Mitch Pirtle wrote: > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:45 PM, CED wrote: > >> Basically I am trying to find the most incredibly fast way to append to a >> file, and support a massive potential concurrency (think huge logging system >> for an ISP etc.). >> > > Why not look into syslog-ng or mongodb's gridfs and/or capped collections? > > Just wondering if you've checked these to avoid reimplementing the wheel :-) > > -- Mitch > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > > > > I did check out the available source for them, but It's a slightly differing usage from those; It's looking like I'm going to build it in Java then... -- 995 Maple Hill Road Castleton, New York 12033 518-331-5061 Consult at CovenanteDesign.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From consult at covenantedesign.com Wed Mar 17 21:45:21 2010 From: consult at covenantedesign.com (CED) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:45:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Fastest PHP Writing In-Reply-To: <78c6bd861003171805h7b3b2a5i5d4b96dc3e9c7a6e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bffc351003151435x538135dbvaedb92a9ab81b180@mail.gmail.com> <4BA169A4.6050903@covenantedesign.com> <78c6bd861003171805h7b3b2a5i5d4b96dc3e9c7a6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BA185B1.2040001@covenantedesign.com> Michael B Allen wrote: > Hi Ed, > > I very much doubt exec-ing and then backticking (which is forks and > then execs again) would achieve the desired result. > > One thing that might, would be to write a long-lived daemon that opens > the file(s) being appended to and waits for data on a named pipe. PHP > callers can just open the pipe, write data to it, close and move on. > The deamon would read the data and write it to the desired descriptor. > Meanwhile the calling PHP process is probably off doing other things > by then. > > Mike > > Sorry I wasn't more clear in my OP, That was a list of the various writing mechanisms I am comparing... not the procedural order of the code. -- 995 Maple Hill Road Castleton, New York 12033 518-331-5061 Consult at CovenanteDesign.com From ant92083 at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 11:34:43 2010 From: ant92083 at gmail.com (Anthony Wlodarski) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:34:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Eclipse, try try again In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e931002260634u190b3af6xfc686dab6dec0980@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bffc351002252024rf371791qe0d86eea7b59b1ce@mail.gmail.com> <1d8a0e931002260634u190b3af6xfc686dab6dec0980@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43bc541c1003180834q462afbf6r9def63ef3d1e8d09@mail.gmail.com> Not to revive a dead issue potentially but I have been using Netbeans (Also Java based.) with Mercurial for my development environment and I have never looked back since. This is coming from a developer who almost had a "VI" tattoo on his calf. It is pretty robust and version 6.8 is as solid as I could ask for. I do recommend you take a look at it. There are Linux packages available as well as binary install files for Windows users. It is actually so good that I have installed it on Windows and Linux so that when I dual boot I feel comfortable in any environment. Take a look here: http://netbeans.org/downloads/index.html. You can download the PHP specific build or just download the massive "ALL" option if there are other languages you work with. My big problem with PDT and Zend's work on the product is the lack of speed. Eclipse would slow down to a snails pace and then error out or exit on me violently. It became apparent that it was not the environment for me when I lost a large chunk of recent work because the IDE couldn't manage its own memory efficiently (Netbeans has an indicator bar to tell you how much memory you are using and I have never seen it spike over 150mb). Hope this helps. -Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ant92083 at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 09:42:49 2010 From: ant92083 at gmail.com (Anthony Wlodarski) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:42:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Live chat features or similar functionality. Message-ID: <43bc541c1003190642x1a04c7c9w35ce35e44df3771@mail.gmail.com> I was discussing with one of the product development individuals at my company the idea of implementing a live chat interface akin to Facebook. Are there any existing open source initiatives (php based) that mimic this behaviour or am I going to have to re-invent the wheel Facebook created? Google unfortunately has failed me when I typed in the search term "facebook chat php clone". CometChat seemed like a good alternative but I cannot understand the price jump from 49.99 for a branded license to a 129.99 no branding version. -- Anthony W. ant92083 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Fri Mar 19 09:46:36 2010 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Live chat features or similar functionality. In-Reply-To: <43bc541c1003190642x1a04c7c9w35ce35e44df3771@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Mar 2010, Anthony Wlodarski wrote: > I was discussing with one of the product development individuals at my > company the idea of implementing a live chat interface akin to Facebook. > Are there any existing open source initiatives (php based) that mimic this > behaviour or am I going to have to re-invent the wheel Facebook created? > Google unfortunately has failed me when I typed in the search term "facebook > chat php clone". CometChat seemed like a good alternative but I cannot > understand the price jump from 49.99 for a branded license to a 129.99 no > branding version. You could also look at using a Meebo chat room - they have a simple API and its free. Ive used their API. -- Aj. From dcech at phpwerx.net Fri Mar 19 09:47:09 2010 From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:47:09 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Live chat features or similar functionality. In-Reply-To: <43bc541c1003190642x1a04c7c9w35ce35e44df3771@mail.gmail.com> References: <43bc541c1003190642x1a04c7c9w35ce35e44df3771@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BA3805D.6070606@phpwerx.net> On 3/19/2010 9:42 AM, Anthony Wlodarski wrote: > I was discussing with one of the product development individuals at my > company the idea of implementing a live chat interface akin to Facebook. > Are there any existing open source initiatives (php based) that mimic this > behaviour or am I going to have to re-invent the wheel Facebook created? I would go with XMPP in the backend, there are plenty of clients available in different languages (including pure javascript). > Google unfortunately has failed me when I typed in the search term "facebook > chat php clone". CometChat seemed like a good alternative but I cannot > understand the price jump from 49.99 for a branded license to a 129.99 no > branding version. How much development time does $80 buy you if that's the only reason you're looking at rolling your own? Dan From ant92083 at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 09:58:02 2010 From: ant92083 at gmail.com (Anthony Wlodarski) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:58:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Live chat features or similar functionality. In-Reply-To: <4BA3805D.6070606@phpwerx.net> References: <43bc541c1003190642x1a04c7c9w35ce35e44df3771@mail.gmail.com> <4BA3805D.6070606@phpwerx.net> Message-ID: <43bc541c1003190658n69002159s332803260ac3c984@mail.gmail.com> If I was the sole developer (which I am) $80 would be a steal but then I have to worry about limitations of the software as well as the ability/inability to add my own custom code to mould it to my needs. I had a chance to scan the XMPP website and I like what I see so far. I am going to spend an hour this afternoon learning more about the product and what is involved in the implementation. Thank you Dan and Ajai for the recommendations. On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Dan Cech wrote: > On 3/19/2010 9:42 AM, Anthony Wlodarski wrote: > > I was discussing with one of the product development individuals at my > > company the idea of implementing a live chat interface akin to Facebook. > > Are there any existing open source initiatives (php based) that mimic > this > > behaviour or am I going to have to re-invent the wheel Facebook created? > > I would go with XMPP in the backend, there are plenty of clients > available in different languages (including pure javascript). > > > Google unfortunately has failed me when I typed in the search term > "facebook > > chat php clone". CometChat seemed like a good alternative but I cannot > > understand the price jump from 49.99 for a branded license to a 129.99 no > > branding version. > > How much development time does $80 buy you if that's the only reason > you're looking at rolling your own? > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -- Anthony W. ant92083 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gatzby3jr at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 10:58:00 2010 From: gatzby3jr at gmail.com (Brian O'Connor) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:58:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Live chat features or similar functionality. In-Reply-To: <43bc541c1003190658n69002159s332803260ac3c984@mail.gmail.com> References: <43bc541c1003190642x1a04c7c9w35ce35e44df3771@mail.gmail.com> <4BA3805D.6070606@phpwerx.net> <43bc541c1003190658n69002159s332803260ac3c984@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29da5d151003190758x3b641d3dic4217a4f5f4405ef@mail.gmail.com> Take a look at orbited (orbited.org). You can use that to connect to existing chat protocols like jabber or whatever you want. Brian On 3/19/10, Anthony Wlodarski wrote: > If I was the sole developer (which I am) $80 would be a steal but then I > have to worry about limitations of the software as well as the > ability/inability to add my own custom code to mould it to my needs. I had > a chance to scan the XMPP website and I like what I see so far. I am going > to spend an hour this afternoon learning more about the product and what is > involved in the implementation. Thank you Dan and Ajai for the > recommendations. > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Dan Cech wrote: > >> On 3/19/2010 9:42 AM, Anthony Wlodarski wrote: >> > I was discussing with one of the product development individuals at my >> > company the idea of implementing a live chat interface akin to Facebook. >> > Are there any existing open source initiatives (php based) that mimic >> this >> > behaviour or am I going to have to re-invent the wheel Facebook created? >> >> I would go with XMPP in the backend, there are plenty of clients >> available in different languages (including pure javascript). >> >> > Google unfortunately has failed me when I typed in the search term >> "facebook >> > chat php clone". CometChat seemed like a good alternative but I cannot >> > understand the price jump from 49.99 for a branded license to a 129.99 >> > no >> > branding version. >> >> How much development time does $80 buy you if that's the only reason >> you're looking at rolling your own? >> >> Dan >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation >> > > > > -- > Anthony W. > ant92083 at gmail.com > -- Sent from my mobile device Brian O'Connor From garyamort at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 09:55:15 2010 From: garyamort at gmail.com (Gary Mort) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:55:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Indeferno? Message-ID: <4bffc351003210655u203f4114i60ac97dad21ad011@mail.gmail.com> I gave redmine a try and it's good, let's me work the way I think and all....integrates with Bazaar.....etc etc. All the good stuff. The downside though was that it just lacks a decent templating system, lacks some basic API's, etc. At the end of the day... to get to where I want to be I find I need to change /something/..... In the case of Redmine....it meant implementing a SOAP API in order to do some integration with some tools that already have SOAP connectors but don't have REST connectors... And the Ruby kids are so down on SOAP that a lot of the cool generators that are supposed to make Ruby on Rails so fantastic don't really work well - and the Ruby answer is a smug "well, you should use REST"...... given a choice between coding a new integration library in Java or coding an API in Ruby, I would prefer to work in Ruby. Wheras Indeferno, http://www.indefero.net/ is PHP.....which in theory makes it easier to program for[of course, it uses it's own fun little framework]... It means switching to Mercurial or Git....but then those are more widely used anyway, so it's not a hardship. Figured I'd ask if anyone else has played with it before looking further into that route. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nhart at partsauthority.com Mon Mar 22 11:00:41 2010 From: nhart at partsauthority.com (Nicholas Hart) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:00:41 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes Message-ID: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> I am looking to analyze and speed up some of my queries by adding any necessary indexes. Is there a formula to follow in adding indexes to multiple join queries? I have made some attempts using explain but am not sure I understand it all that well. For example: $sql = "select dt1.*, d.* from driver d join (select `driver`, date(`leave`), sum(`points`) as pnts, sum(`xpnts`) as xpnts from check_head where date(`leave`) = '".$sdate."' group by `driver`) dt1 on dt1.driver = d.id_num where `store` = '".$userStore."' "; Any suggestions welcome. Thanks. Nick On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 12:00 PM, wrote: > Send talk mailing list submissions to > talk at lists.nyphp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > talk-request at lists.nyphp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > talk-owner at lists.nyphp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of talk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Anyone using Indeferno? (Gary Mort) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:55:15 -0400 > From: Gary Mort > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Indeferno? > Message-ID: > <4bffc351003210655u203f4114i60ac97dad21ad011 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I gave redmine a try and it's good, let's me work the way I think and > all....integrates with Bazaar.....etc etc. > > All the good stuff. > > The downside though was that it just lacks a decent templating system, > lacks some basic API's, etc. > > At the end of the day... to get to where I want to be I find I need to > change /something/..... > > In the case of Redmine....it meant implementing a SOAP API in order to do > some integration with some tools that already have SOAP connectors but > don't > have REST connectors... And the Ruby kids are so down on SOAP that a lot > of > the cool generators that are supposed to make Ruby on Rails so fantastic > don't really work well - and the Ruby answer is a smug "well, you should > use > REST"...... given a choice between coding a new integration library in Java > or coding an API in Ruby, I would prefer to work in Ruby. > > Wheras Indeferno, http://www.indefero.net/ is PHP.....which in theory > makes > it easier to program for[of course, it uses it's own fun little > framework]... > > It means switching to Mercurial or Git....but then those are more widely > used anyway, so it's not a hardship. > > Figured I'd ask if anyone else has played with it before looking further > into that route. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20100321/8641b688/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nyphp.org > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > End of talk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 14 > ************************************ > -- -Nicholas Hart Parts Authority IT 516-678-3900 X3242 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ant92083 at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 11:07:07 2010 From: ant92083 at gmail.com (Anthony W) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:07:07 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BA7879B.50905@gmail.com> It depends on where the join is occurring. If you have a HABTM relationship between the join tables then a index should be added to the pivot table. If not then I would assume that the column you are joining on would be a candidate for an index. Do these tables have a PRIMARY KEY already established? Take for example the following tables: /* create our habtm tags table */ CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS pictures_tags ( picture_id int(11) NOT NULL, tag_id int(11) NOT NULL, PRIMARY KEY (`picture_id`,`tag_id`), KEY `fk_tag_id` (`tag_id`), KEY `fk_picture_id` (`picture_id`) ); On the pivot table I have added two foreign key constraints for look ups either by tag or by picture on the pivot table. With an average load of ten pictures per tag it loads the picture set of ten tags in about .003 seconds. When adding indexes I never have found a magic formula to always use. Just look for the basics (PRIMARY KEY) and then move onto any columns that you are joining on. Hope this helps. From SyAD at aol.com Mon Mar 22 11:13:17 2010 From: SyAD at aol.com (SyAD at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:13:17 EDT Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mar 23 Meeting Message-ID: <69555.2f792913.38d8e30d@aol.com> Hi all, I'm very interested in the topic for tomorrow's meeting (Coding for Mobile Web Applications) -- but can't attend due to work. Will the presentation be posted anywhere? Thanks, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com Mon Mar 22 11:27:21 2010 From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:27:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4174EC5F-CD95-4067-85BB-E4444E98BBEB@beaffinitive.com> On Mar 22, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > I am looking to analyze and speed up some of my queries by adding any necessary indexes. Is there a formula to follow in adding indexes to multiple join queries? I have made some attempts using explain but am not sure I understand it all that well. > > For example: > $sql = "select dt1.*, d.* from > driver d join > (select `driver`, date(`leave`), sum(`points`) as pnts, > sum(`xpnts`) as xpnts from check_head > where date(`leave`) = '".$sdate."' > group by `driver`) dt1 > on dt1.driver = d.id_num where `store` = '".$userStore."' "; This looks like a pretty difficult query to tune. There's a lot going on in your subselect - date functions, grouping, sum. I'd skip the date() functions and do that conversion in php. Honestly, you're best bet is to denormalize this and have another table that stores exactly what you need (the points summed by driver and leave date and store). Then you add indexes to leave date. Every time you write to check_head, you also update the summary info in this new table. When you select from it, you can query on just that table - no joins. If you need more info on the drivers, gather up all of the unique driver ids in php, then issue another query with an "IN" in the where clause for all of the driver ids to get their info. Then when you display to the user, iterate through the summary info and add in info about the drivers from your other query. This way, you're only querying via indexes, not grouping or summing anything on the fly, and you're not even doing any joins. You definitely need an index on driver.id_num if you don't have it already. Going by the query as is, you need an index on check_head.driver too if you don't have it. Mysql joins only perform decently if there are indexes on the columns you are using to join. Good luck, Rob From anoland at indigente.net Mon Mar 22 12:17:39 2010 From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:17:39 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <4174EC5F-CD95-4067-85BB-E4444E98BBEB@beaffinitive.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> <4174EC5F-CD95-4067-85BB-E4444E98BBEB@beaffinitive.com> Message-ID: <1d8a0e931003220917l6a38c73bnaaac17a446850e81@mail.gmail.com> In addition to what others said... There is a lot more instruction both online and offline, but here is a brief example illustrating EXPLAIN: http://www.experts-exchange.com/articles/Database/MySQL/3-Ways-to-Speed-Up-MySQL.html The docs can be a bit dense if you're not familiar with what you are looking for, but here it is for reference: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/using-explain.html The first things you need to look at are the `type` and `ref`s columns. They will tell you what, if any, keys are used. Another thing to look for is any comments in the `Extra` column. If that has NULL, or 'filesort', or 'full scan' then you have some work to do. Finally, I took a glance at the slides in this page and they look informative, but I haven't watched the presentation. I will need to d/l it and watch it later. http://forge.mysql.com/wiki/Optimizing_Queries_with_Explain On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Rob Marscher wrote: > On Mar 22, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > > I am looking to analyze and speed up some of my queries by adding any > necessary indexes. Is there a formula to follow in adding indexes to > multiple join queries? I have made some attempts using explain but am not > sure I understand it all that well. > > > > For example: > > $sql = "select dt1.*, d.* from > > driver d join > > (select `driver`, date(`leave`), sum(`points`) as pnts, > > sum(`xpnts`) as xpnts from check_head > > where date(`leave`) = '".$sdate."' > > group by `driver`) dt1 > > on dt1.driver = d.id_num where `store` = '".$userStore."' "; > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at zaunere.com Mon Mar 22 12:36:24 2010 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:36:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mar 23 Meeting In-Reply-To: <69555.2f792913.38d8e30d@aol.com> References: <69555.2f792913.38d8e30d@aol.com> Message-ID: <00f301cac9dd$d0638960$712a9c20$@com> Hello, > I'm very interested in the topic for tomorrow's meeting (Coding for > Mobile Web Applications) -- but can't attend due to work. Will the > presentation be posted anywhere? Yes, likely the presentation slides will be posted in the archives: http://www.nyphp.org/PHP-Presentations H From jcampbell1 at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 13:31:38 2010 From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:31:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8f0676b41003221031n32646313tfb9b5e185342c0db@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > For example: > ??? $sql = "select dt1.*, d.* from > ??? ??? driver d join > ??? ??? (select `driver`, date(`leave`), sum(`points`) as pnts, > ??? ??? sum(`xpnts`) as xpnts from check_head > ??? ??? where date(`leave`) = '".$sdate."' > ??? ??? group by `driver`) dt1 > ??? ??? on dt1.driver = d.id_num where `store` = '".$userStore."' "; Below are a couple of optimizations: 1: add an index on the timestamp 'leave', and then change WHERE DATE('leave') = $sdate to: WHERE leave > $sdate AND leave < ($sdate + INTERVAL 1 DAY); This is because mysql never uses indexes when a function is on the left hand side. 2. Do you really need the subquery? I mean why not just use an inner join? The query can probably be re-written as: SELECT d.*, DATE(), SUM(), ... FROM driver JOIN checkhead dt ON dt.driver = d.id_num WHERE dt.leave > $sdate ... GROUP BY dt.driver The fastest query plan is to filter the check_head to the day in question, and then do the joins/groups on the small subset of records. You have to trick mysql into executing it that way. If you have 3 years of data, and you should see a 1000x speedup by doing it my way. There is no "formula" to follow, but you need to intuitively understand how relational databases work to write fast queries. As a starting point, 1. index foreign keys 2. no formulas on the left side of a where statement 3. create indexes for columns in the where clause. Regards, John Campbell From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com Mon Mar 22 13:42:14 2010 From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:42:14 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <8f0676b41003221031n32646313tfb9b5e185342c0db@mail.gmail.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> <8f0676b41003221031n32646313tfb9b5e185342c0db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3F65D9AC-9607-4255-8762-CB4B177B30EA@beaffinitive.com> On Mar 22, 2010, at 1:31 PM, John Campbell wrote: ...snip... > 1: add an index on the timestamp 'leave' ...snip... > This is because mysql never uses indexes when a function is on the > left hand side. > There is no "formula" to follow, but you need to intuitively > understand how relational databases work to write fast queries. As a > starting point, 1. index foreign keys > 2. no formulas on the left side of a where statement > 3. create indexes for columns in the where clause. One caveat to this is that mysql will only use one index per table in your query. So it can either use the index on the foreign key for the join, or it can use the index on the column in the where clause. Sometimes, by creating a multi-column index, it's able to use that index both for the join and the where clause... but it doesn't seem to work in all cases. The query profiler can help you figure out what mysql is doing - http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/using-new-query-profiler.html. This gives you a lot more info than EXPLAIN. With EXPLAIN, you can only check the key_len to try to figure out how much of your index is getting used. By the way, you might want to make posts like this to the nyphp-mysql list because it seems to be watched by some experts in the mysql community. From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Mon Mar 22 13:54:35 2010 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:54:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100322175435.GA22335@panix.com> Hi Nick: > $sql = "select dt1.*, d.* from > driver d join > (select `driver`, date(`leave`), sum(`points`) as pnts, > sum(`xpnts`) as xpnts from check_head > where date(`leave`) = '".$sdate."' > group by `driver`) dt1 > on dt1.driver = d.id_num where `store` = '".$userStore."' "; Ouch. You need to read up on how MySQL queries work. There are sections in the manual that explain it pretty well. Most importantly, it's a really bad idea to use functions on a column in a WHERE clause. The function has to be run on every row in the table, then those results get compared to the value ($sdate in this case). Second, joins only use indexes when you're joining tables. Here, you're joining a subquery, so no love. Third, don't delimit your identifiers. If you're using identifiers that need delimiting, don't. Fourth, start queries from the table where the WHERE clause does the work. Try something like this... Note, I'm leaving date(leave) out of the output since you didn't put an alias (AS) on it makes me believe you're not using it in your output because the likelyhood of you doing $row['date(leave)'] in your PHP is low. Also, you better be sure the value of $sdate and $userStore are safe for use in a query / can't be tainted to perform an SQL injection attacks. SELECT driver, SUM(points) AS pnts, SUM(xpnts) AS xpnts FROM check_head JOIN driver ON (driver.id_num = check_head.driver) WHERE leave = '$sdate' AND store = '$userStore' GROUP BY driver --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Tue Mar 23 10:16:37 2010 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:16:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <3F65D9AC-9607-4255-8762-CB4B177B30EA@beaffinitive.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> <8f0676b41003221031n32646313tfb9b5e185342c0db@mail.gmail.com> <3F65D9AC-9607-4255-8762-CB4B177B30EA@beaffinitive.com> Message-ID: <20100323141637.GA388@panix.com> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 01:42:14PM -0400, Rob Marscher wrote: > > One caveat to this is that mysql will only use one index per table in > your query. I've never heard that before. Do you have a citation from the manual on MySQL's website, please? Thanks, --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com Tue Mar 23 11:12:57 2010 From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:12:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <20100323141637.GA388@panix.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> <8f0676b41003221031n32646313tfb9b5e185342c0db@mail.gmail.com> <3F65D9AC-9607-4255-8762-CB4B177B30EA@beaffinitive.com> <20100323141637.GA388@panix.com> Message-ID: <51F8BBE8-7819-4E03-B761-F23317E3F232@beaffinitive.com> On Mar 23, 2010, at 10:16 AM, Daniel Convissor wrote: > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 01:42:14PM -0400, Rob Marscher wrote: >> >> One caveat to this is that mysql will only use one index per table in >> your query. > > I've never heard that before. Do you have a citation from the manual on > MySQL's website, please? I'm having trouble finding exactly where it says it. The language on this page touches on it, but the way it's written it seems to assume that you already know it's only going to pick one index per table: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/mysql-indexes.html If you run EXPLAIN, you'll see it only picks one index to use for each table. Technically though, there is the "Index Merge" optimization introduced in MySQL 5 that gets it to use more than one index under certain conditions: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/index-merge-optimization.html And don't forget indexes can be made on multiple columns: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/multiple-column-indexes.html From lists at zaunere.com Tue Mar 23 11:45:37 2010 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:45:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <20100323141637.GA388@panix.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> <8f0676b41003221031n32646313tfb9b5e185342c0db@mail.gmail.com> <3F65D9AC-9607-4255-8762-CB4B177B30EA@beaffinitive.com> <20100323141637.GA388@panix.com> Message-ID: <001c01caca9f$e23511a0$a69f34e0$@com> > > One caveat to this is that mysql will only use one index per table in > > your query. > > I've never heard that before. Do you have a citation from the manual on > MySQL's website, please? It's thrown around through some of the links Rob mentioned, but it's true and notorious issue with indexing in MySQL. Furthermore, indexes must be in left-right ordering, if there's a multi-column index. Things I suppose are trying to improve a bit, but the rule is typically to create specific indexes for every major type of query. H From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Tue Mar 23 11:50:34 2010 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:50:34 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <51F8BBE8-7819-4E03-B761-F23317E3F232@beaffinitive.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> <8f0676b41003221031n32646313tfb9b5e185342c0db@mail.gmail.com> <3F65D9AC-9607-4255-8762-CB4B177B30EA@beaffinitive.com> <20100323141637.GA388@panix.com> <51F8BBE8-7819-4E03-B761-F23317E3F232@beaffinitive.com> Message-ID: <20100323155033.GA379@panix.com> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:12:57AM -0400, Rob Marscher wrote: > > I'm having trouble finding exactly where it says it. ... > If you run EXPLAIN, you'll see it only picks one index to use for each > table. That may be true for the queries you ran. If that's the case, you don't have enough rows for the optimizer to realize that using more than one indexes makes a difference. Once you do, your EXPLAIN output will look something like this... EXPLAIN SELECT person_id FROM person JOIN person_status USING (status_id) WHERE department_id = 11 AND status_id = 10 \G *************************** 1. row *************************** id: 1 select_type: SIMPLE table: person_status type: const possible_keys: PRIMARY key: PRIMARY key_len: 4 ref: const rows: 1 Extra: Using index *************************** 2. row *************************** id: 1 select_type: SIMPLE table: person type: index_merge possible_keys: status_id,department_id key: department_id,status_id key_len: 4,5 ref: NULL rows: 1 Extra: Using intersect(department_id,status_id); Using where; Using index --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com Tue Mar 23 12:02:31 2010 From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:02:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <20100323155033.GA379@panix.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> <8f0676b41003221031n32646313tfb9b5e185342c0db@mail.gmail.com> <3F65D9AC-9607-4255-8762-CB4B177B30EA@beaffinitive.com> <20100323141637.GA388@panix.com> <51F8BBE8-7819-4E03-B761-F23317E3F232@beaffinitive.com> <20100323155033.GA379@panix.com> Message-ID: <79359172-35F1-4689-AE38-7208E178673A@beaffinitive.com> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Daniel Convissor wrote: > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:12:57AM -0400, Rob Marscher wrote: >> >> I'm having trouble finding exactly where it says it. > ... >> If you run EXPLAIN, you'll see it only picks one index to use for each >> table. > > That may be true for the queries you ran. If that's the case, you don't > have enough rows for the optimizer to realize that using more than one > indexes makes a difference. Once you do, your EXPLAIN output will look > something like this... You have two tables here and you'll see the second table is using the "index_merge" optimization that I mentioned. So you're right, there is a few ways that mysql can use more than one index. If you don't have enough rows, then the index is probably not being used because mysql only uses the indexes when they provide a significant enhancement over a full table scan (I know... throwing out another statement without a reference, but I think this is stated in the documentation page I send on how mysql uses indexes). > EXPLAIN > SELECT person_id > FROM person > JOIN person_status USING (status_id) > WHERE department_id = 11 AND status_id = 10 \G > > *************************** 1. row *************************** > id: 1 > select_type: SIMPLE > table: person_status > type: const > possible_keys: PRIMARY > key: PRIMARY > key_len: 4 > ref: const > rows: 1 > Extra: Using index > *************************** 2. row *************************** > id: 1 > select_type: SIMPLE > table: person > type: index_merge > possible_keys: status_id,department_id > key: department_id,status_id > key_len: 4,5 > ref: NULL > rows: 1 > Extra: Using intersect(department_id,status_id); Using > where; Using index From anoland at indigente.net Tue Mar 23 17:29:24 2010 From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:29:24 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Adding indexes In-Reply-To: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3719ecad1003220800n434c284et9d15c718d5e3707a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1d8a0e931003231429n251787eal9a04b8594be987ff@mail.gmail.com> Just in case you need some more information about how to fix your queries, this walks you through some examples http://hackmysql.com/case2 On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > I am looking to analyze and speed up some of my queries by adding any > necessary indexes. Is there a formula to follow in adding indexes to > multiple join queries? I have made some attempts using explain but am not > sure I understand it all that well. > > For example: > $sql = "select dt1.*, d.* from > driver d join > (select `driver`, date(`leave`), sum(`points`) as pnts, > sum(`xpnts`) as xpnts from check_head > where date(`leave`) = '".$sdate."' > group by `driver`) dt1 > on dt1.driver = d.id_num where `store` = '".$userStore."' "; > > Any suggestions welcome. Thanks. > > Nick > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidalanroth at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 01:31:24 2010 From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 01:31:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Flow Chart "open source" favorites? Message-ID: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> I'm looking for recommendations of Flow Charting software that's "Open Source". Thanks! David Roth From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 07:24:10 2010 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 07:24:10 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Flow Chart "open source" favorites? In-Reply-To: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> References: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <330532b61003260424t36c54c53p48858d94a3d9a244@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:31 AM, David Roth wrote: > I'm looking for recommendations of Flow Charting software that's "Open > Source". Thanks! You could look into Dia: http://projects.gnome.org/dia/ Is that the kind of app you are looking for? -- Mitch From ramons at gmx.net Fri Mar 26 07:48:24 2010 From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 07:48:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Flow Chart "open source" favorites? In-Reply-To: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> References: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BAC9F08.8020405@gmx.net> On 3/26/2010 1:31, David Roth wrote: > I'm looking for recommendations of Flow Charting software that's "Open > Source". Thanks! > > David Roth How specialized do you need to get? I put some nice charts together using OOo's Draw and Impress. Looking for something to replace Visio? David Krings From ajai at bitblit.net Fri Mar 26 08:05:52 2010 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 08:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Flow Chart "open source" favorites? In-Reply-To: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Mar 2010, David Roth wrote: > I'm looking for recommendations of Flow Charting software that's "Open > Source". Thanks! Inkscape is open source and outputs SVG (as well as the usual formats). -- Aj. From zippy1981 at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 10:39:01 2010 From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:39:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Flow Chart "open source" favorites? In-Reply-To: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> References: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5458db3c1003260739w45c45510v78992fdc4f6ccffe@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:31 AM, David Roth wrote: > I'm looking for recommendations of Flow Charting software that's "Open > Source". Thanks! > > David Roth > > David, Perhaps you should ask this on a linux mailing list or superuser.com? It seems off topic to me. Justin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidalanroth at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 13:57:56 2010 From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:57:56 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Flow Chart "open source" favorites? In-Reply-To: <330532b61003260424t36c54c53p48858d94a3d9a244@mail.gmail.com> References: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> <330532b61003260424t36c54c53p48858d94a3d9a244@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7DF73307-7341-4E72-8AD1-8853E9B321B6@gmail.com> Yes, thanks Mitch and everyone else that responded. Justin, this isn't off-topic since it's Flow Charting for program design and the application is in PHP. Thanks for the resource of superuser.com, since I've never heard of it before. I'll add it to the intranet. David Roth On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:24 AM, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:31 AM, David Roth > wrote: >> I'm looking for recommendations of Flow Charting software that's >> "Open >> Source". Thanks! > > You could look into Dia: > > http://projects.gnome.org/dia/ > > Is that the kind of app you are looking for? > > -- Mitch From edwardpotter at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 15:03:42 2010 From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (Edward Potter) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:03:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Flow Chart "open source" favorites? In-Reply-To: <7DF73307-7341-4E72-8AD1-8853E9B321B6@gmail.com> References: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> <330532b61003260424t36c54c53p48858d94a3d9a244@mail.gmail.com> <7DF73307-7341-4E72-8AD1-8853E9B321B6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Cool. Before I would even look at flowcharting software I would sketch out the program flow/navigation on paper. A pencil is a miraculous thing. Also a roll of yellow tracing paper can be magic. :-) >>> *For while it is probably not possible to make a drawing without a conscious intention, the drawing does possess a life of its own, an insistence, a meaning, which is fundamental to its existence.* ?Michael Graves http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?object_id=92 On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:57 PM, David Roth wrote: > Yes, thanks Mitch and everyone else that responded. > > Justin, this isn't off-topic since it's Flow Charting for program design > and the application is in PHP. Thanks for the resource of superuser.com, > since I've never heard of it before. I'll add it to the intranet. > > David Roth > > > On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:24 AM, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:31 AM, David Roth >> wrote: >> >>> I'm looking for recommendations of Flow Charting software that's "Open >>> Source". Thanks! >>> >> >> You could look into Dia: >> >> http://projects.gnome.org/dia/ >> >> Is that the kind of app you are looking for? >> >> -- Mitch >> > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation > -- IM/iChat: ejpusa Links: http://del.icio.us/ejpusa Follow me: http://www.twitter.com/ejpusa Karma: http://www.coderswithconscience.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidalanroth at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 16:14:06 2010 From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:14:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Flow Chart "open source" favorites? In-Reply-To: References: <58079AEF-50F8-493D-8E83-B565525E2E3B@gmail.com> <330532b61003260424t36c54c53p48858d94a3d9a244@mail.gmail.com> <7DF73307-7341-4E72-8AD1-8853E9B321B6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Edward. I've done program flow charts on paper for years, but my hand-writing skills are horrible if I need to share this with others. It is a wonder why I didn't become a Doctor, although an Art Director told me, "Bad hand writing? That just means you are very expensive!". David Roth On Mar 26, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Edward Potter wrote: > Cool. Before I would even look at flowcharting software I would > sketch out the program flow/navigation on paper. A pencil is a > miraculous thing. Also a roll of yellow tracing paper can be > magic. :-) > > >>> > For while it is probably not possible to make a drawing without a > conscious intention, the drawing does possess a life of its own, an > insistence, a meaning, which is fundamental to its existence. ? > Michael Graves > > http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?object_id=92 > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:57 PM, David Roth > wrote: > Yes, thanks Mitch and everyone else that responded. > > Justin, this isn't off-topic since it's Flow Charting for program > design and the application is in PHP. Thanks for the resource of > superuser.com, since I've never heard of it before. I'll add it to > the intranet. > > David Roth > > > On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:24 AM, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:31 AM, David Roth > wrote: > I'm looking for recommendations of Flow Charting software that's "Open > Source". Thanks! > > You could look into Dia: > > http://projects.gnome.org/dia/ > > Is that the kind of app you are looking for? > > -- Mitch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: